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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Hell   » "Church" of Sweden to stop referring to God as Lord (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: "Church" of Sweden to stop referring to God as Lord
Gamaliel
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No, I wasn't saying that, SvitlanaV2, I was simply making the observation that Gorpo has double-standards in pointing the finger at nasty lib'rul Sweden when his own country has more than enough 'heresies' of its own to go round ...

To be fair, I think he's mentioned one or two over the years.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Martin60
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
And tends towards Just Us.

Ver' good. Ver' ver' good. One hopes against experience so. That faith survives the aging out of patriarchy. Chance 'd be fine thing. Unless you meant something else ... ?

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Love wins

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SvitlanaV2
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It's my own suspicion that gorpo's own historical Protestant denomination is rather too posh to have many syncretists in it. They're probably from a different social class than gorpo, and it's possible that s/he knows very little about them. (After all, it's a country with millions and millions of religious people of very many kinds). If so, this may make it a bit awkward for him/her to criticise them too vociferously.

Gorpo probably feels a greater historical kinship to Swedish Lutheranism than to some random Afro-Pentecostal cult or superstitious RCs. And as we know, enmity is often greater between estranged family members than between total strangers ....

[ 27. November 2017, 20:29: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

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Rossweisse

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Gorpo reminds me of the less appealing, less-tolerant sort of Missouri Synod Lutheran I've encountered: All truth may be found in the councils of the Purple Vatican in Kirkwood, Missouri, and nowhere else; girls have cooties; and anyone who disagrees is not really a Christian.

Happily, I know several MoSyn Lutherans who are sane, intelligent, and humorous women, but they're not the ones in charge.

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I'm not dead yet.

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LutheranChik
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If Gorpo hates the Church of Sweden, he'd be really pissed at the 1980's, when many of us went through the same conversations about God and gender.

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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com

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Rossweisse

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Gorpo is a jackass and a coward, a hit-and-run artist who lacks the courage of his bad deeds. He needs to try defending his outrageous statements - or to simply stop making them.

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I'm not dead yet.

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
Gorpo is a jackass and a coward, a hit-and-run artist who lacks the courage of his bad deeds. He needs to try defending his outrageous statements - or to simply stop making them.

We have a few hyperconservatives with this M.O.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Latchkey Kid
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What's a lord? We don't have them in Australia. At least they went out of fashion when Bob Hawke became PM. It's now an anachronistic title.
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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I'm astounded to think anyone actueally thinks God ticks a box in the gender section of his character sheet. In fact, I'm astounded to think anyone imagines he can fill in *any* boxes on the "created living things" sheet.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Gee D
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Let alone be limited by the name that we use.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Bishops Finger
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Is God's 'character sheet' available anywhere online?

It would be an interesting document....

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Is God's 'character sheet' available anywhere online?

It would be an interesting document....

IJ

Not really. All attributes and skills at +Infinity, except Height, Weight and Build which have "category error".

[ 29. November 2017, 16:58: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Let alone be limited by the name that we use.

I think I AM is a good one.

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
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I Am In Various Tenses With You.

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All I want for Christmas is EU

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Pancho
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I'm astounded to think anyone actually thinks God ticks a box in the gender section of his character sheet.

But He did. He clicked "male" when He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I'm astounded to think anyone actually thinks God ticks a box in the gender section of his character sheet.

But He did. He clicked "male" when He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
That’s one Person, and I think it’s abundantly clear that it’s not the Person of the Trinity that anyone on this thread has been talking about.

But thank you for that technically correct yet weirdly unhelpful observation.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Pancho
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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I'm astounded to think anyone actually thinks God ticks a box in the gender section of his character sheet.

But He did. He clicked "male" when He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
That’s one Person, and I think it’s abundantly clear that it’s not the Person of the Trinity that anyone on this thread has been talking about.

But thank you for that technically correct yet weirdly unhelpful observation.

Is Jesus not God?

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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I'm astounded to think anyone actually thinks God ticks a box in the gender section of his character sheet.

But He did. He clicked "male" when He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
That’s one Person, and I think it’s abundantly clear that it’s not the Person of the Trinity that anyone on this thread has been talking about.

But thank you for that technically correct yet weirdly unhelpful observation.

Is Jesus not God?
Is the Holy Spirit Jesus? Is the Father Jesus? Your question is either off-base or disingenuous. Only the Second Person was incarnate. The First and Third persons were not incarnate. Therefore there are things true of the persons that are not true of the Godhead as a whole. The Father was not circumcised on the 8th day. The Spirit was not baptised in the Jordan. The Second Person was made flesh in the person of a male human being. The other two persons have no gender.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I'm astounded to think anyone actually thinks God ticks a box in the gender section of his character sheet.

But He did. He clicked "male" when He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
That’s one Person, and I think it’s abundantly clear that it’s not the Person of the Trinity that anyone on this thread has been talking about.

But thank you for that technically correct yet weirdly unhelpful observation.

Is Jesus not God?
You persist in being absolutely correct and yet unable to read for context.

Perhaps the thread on dual meanings of “America” should be expanded to discuss dual meanings of “God”. A term that is frequently shorthand for God the Father.

[ 30. November 2017, 03:05: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The Second Person was made flesh in the person of a male human being. The other two persons have no gender.

And I would argue that if the three Persons are one perfect Being, Jesus' gender isn't completely male. Male only makes sense given the time period, it cannot have significance beyond that.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The Second Person was made flesh in the person of a male human being. The other two persons have no gender.

And I would argue that if the three Persons are one perfect Being, Jesus' gender isn't completely male. Male only makes sense given the time period, it cannot have significance beyond that.
I'd say that's one way of viewing it, but it is possible to look at it in other ways. It is dangerous putting TOO much weight on the divine dick, no doubt.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Arethosemyfeet
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I would suggest it's dangerous to put too much weight on any dick, divine, cranial (as in gorpo's case) or otherwise. Likely to result in injury. Of course if your tastes run that way...
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Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I'm astounded to think anyone actually thinks God ticks a box in the gender section of his character sheet.

But He did. He clicked "male" when He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
That’s one Person, and I think it’s abundantly clear that it’s not the Person of the Trinity that anyone on this thread has been talking about.

But thank you for that technically correct yet weirdly unhelpful observation.

Is Jesus not God?
Is the Holy Spirit Jesus? Is the Father Jesus? Your question is either off-base or disingenuous. Only the Second Person was incarnate. The First and Third persons were not incarnate. Therefore there are things true of the persons that are not true of the Godhead as a whole. The Father was not circumcised on the 8th day. The Spirit was not baptised in the Jordan. The Second Person was made flesh in the person of a male human being. The other two persons have no gender.
So, genuine question, the totality of the Second Person incarnated as male? Jesus was or contained the Second Person? The divine nature is the Second Person, shorn of His omnis?

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Love wins

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Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The Second Person was made flesh in the person of a male human being. The other two persons have no gender.

And I would argue that if the three Persons are one perfect Being, Jesus' gender isn't completely male. Male only makes sense given the time period, it cannot have significance beyond that.
The Being in this case being a substance. Not a person of Persons, a gestalt. And again, a trans-infinity, pre-eternity, inextricably perichoretic Person became an insensate conceptus?

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Love wins

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Latchkey Kid
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I Am In Various Tenses With You.

I get the "I Am In Various Tenses" but why the "With You"?

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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner

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Erroneous Monk
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Jesus was or contained the Second Person? The divine nature is the Second Person, shorn of His omnis?

I'm not an expert, but I tend to think that Jesus *was* the Second Person. Mary "contained" the second person for a number of weeks.

Going back to the comparison with the burning bush, I tend to think the burning bush "contained" God, rather than *was* God. So the burning bush is more like Mary (c.f. the Biblical Litany to Our Lady)

It's a good question though - I mean, for all words that we use for "God", do they mean God or do they mean a specific person of the Trinity?

Is Allah a word for God, or for the first person?

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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EM--

AIUI, "Allah" is simply the local name for God, and not just for Muslims.

Islam is very strict about Allah being one--so asking if that corresponds to God the Father might not compute.

But it might be that if you found a Muslim who was into comparative religion and thought experiments, they might be willing to compare notes about concepts of God/Allah.

FWIW.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Jesus was or contained the Second Person? The divine nature is the Second Person, shorn of His omnis?

I'm not an expert, but I tend to think that Jesus *was* the Second Person. Mary "contained" the second person for a number of weeks.

Going back to the comparison with the burning bush, I tend to think the burning bush "contained" God, rather than *was* God. So the burning bush is more like Mary (c.f. the Biblical Litany to Our Lady)

It's a good question though - I mean, for all words that we use for "God", do they mean God or do they mean a specific person of the Trinity?

Is Allah a word for God, or for the first person?

Thanks E.M. (Do you play jazz piano wrongly?)

If Jesus was the Second Person, what happened to the human person that always arises in the conception of a normal human ovum?

[ 01. December 2017, 10:35: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

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Love wins

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
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I don't know how we can even have this discussion if we don't speak the language in question. As for English, I find "he," much broader than "she." I never read, "Man must live by bread alone" or "Blessed is he who..." to refer only to male humans. If so we would have to think Jesus only ever spoke to guys and the ladies were supposed to be in the kitchen like Martha -- and we know that was not the case.

"Man, mankind,and he," can all be used in English to refer to both genders of humans, while she is never used that way.

When someone refers to God as he I don't picture male parts, just that vague spirit-being only Martin can describe, but when God is called "She," I do picture a full breasted Amazonian figure, and I also picture my fellow feminists nodding and smirking to each other. I can't help it.

"My Lord," just seems like a way of humbling oneself before one who is vastly superior. We always refer to our cat as, "his lordship."

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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You're all boring me now. Go away.

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Forward the New Republic

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Martin60
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A gentleman is never bored.

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Love wins

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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To continue this tangent:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I don't know how we can even have this discussion if we don't speak the language in question. As for English, I find "he," much broader than "she." I never read, "Man must live by bread alone" or "Blessed is he who..." to refer only to male humans. If so we would have to think Jesus only ever spoke to guys and the ladies were supposed to be in the kitchen like Martha -- and we know that was not the case.

There are two conventions in English, one is the inclusive he. when gender is unknown use masculine pronouns.

The other more archaic one, brought back into popularity by Jane Austen, is singular use of they or them. The sentence, "If someone is selling goods at your door, do not open to them." is correct.

I use singular them whenever its use is not confusing and only then will I use inclusive male pronouns. Anything is preferable to the hideous he/she. People who use that should be taken out and shot as a service to humanity.

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Fearfully and wonderfully mad
Love the dinner, hate the din.
ن
blog

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
A gentleman is never bored.

A gentleman never had to read this thread.

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Forward the New Republic

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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And neither did a gentleman start it.

[Disappointed]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Perhaps if we ask nicely enough some gentleman will close it.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Which would be a Boon and a Blessing to all Gentlemen!

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Which would be a Boon and a Blessing to all Gentlemen! ...

...and others.

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I'm not dead yet.

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Yes, of course.

Sorry.... [Hot and Hormonal]

(I had in mind the old advert for pen nibs, to wit:
They come as a boon and a blessing to men, the Pickwick, the Owl, and the Waverley pen.)

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 9446 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

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No worries, BF.

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I'm not dead yet.

Posts: 14752 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged



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