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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Aging Parents
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) I hope that no offence will be taken, it certainly wasn't intended, far from it.
Please pm me LC or call me to hell if you want to give my ears a bashing.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Thanks, both of you. No doubt I'm like my mother far more than I realize, but I've been consciously working on the "not judging" thing, the way you do ("When I grow up, I'm NEVER..." etc.)
It just hurts. Mom loves us, we know that, but you'd not realize it to hear what comes out of her mouth--or to see her blithely missing major events in our lives and our children's lives, often because she's in a snit at one of my other siblings who might be there. And she's not likely to change at her age. Dad is dead, and Stepdad echoes whatever Mom says (I think he finds it safest), and we have no other close relatives. So it feels something like being orphaned.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
That is very sad, Lamb Chopped.
A quick anecdote from my own experience may serve to illustrate how often we are so much more like our parents than we like to realize:
One of the things that drove me crazy about my mother was that when presented with a problem, she would always respond by telling you what you SHOULD have done differently in the past to prevent the problem (i.e., "You should have had that seen by a doctor two years ago," "You should have been putting money aside for an emergency like this," "You shouldn't have married him in the first place"), which, of course, is the world's most useless advice, since we don't have the advantage of time-travel. One of the many ways I'd worked around the more difficult parts of our relationship in recent years was to avoid telling her about any problems or concerns in my life so I wouldn't have to hear this kind of retroactive advice.
My mother died of a fall caused by a stroke or a stroke caused by a fall -we don't fully understand the sequence of events as it all happened so quickly. On the night she died I sat beside her on the steps of the church where she'd fallen, holding a tissue to the cut on her head and waiting for an ambulance (at that point we thought she would get a few stitches and be home none the worse for wear later that evening). I thought she had stumbled on the church steps because she was a little unsteady on her feet since a mini-stroke two years earlier. As I sat with her, telling her that the head wound didn't look too bad and she'd be OK, I said, "There's a ramp right next to the steps; you really should have taken the ramp."
I caught myself right away and said, "Of course that doesn't matter, you can't do anything about it now." About ten minutes later she lost consciousness and never regained it. I will always remember that one of the last things I said to her was exactly the sort of thing that used to drive me crazy when she said it to me.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Trudy - that made me smile as well as feel sad for your loss.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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The Intrepid Mrs S
Shipmate
# 17002
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Posted
We got home from holiday on Wednesday night at about 10, and I rang my Mum (the Dowager Mrs S) just to tell her I was home but too tired to talk.
Half an hour later ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) we had been through my aged aunt's broken hip (they live close to one another so my poor Mum has to pick up the pieces), my brother's second admission to rehab, her aged friend's distress at realising she'd never get to leave the nursing home, and a few other topics - and I thought, these poor old ladies. None of them is poor in financial terms, they all live in houses and gardens that are too big for them but they won't leave. ![[Confused]](confused.gif) But they have outlived their bodies, as it were, and in the words of the immortal Tony Hancock - 'Stone me, what a life'.
This is only a rant, guys, I don't require/expect advice or anything, but thanks for listening. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Mrs. S, humming 'I'm still standing' under her breath.
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Don't get your knickers in a twist over your advancing age. It achieves nothing and makes you walk funny.
Prayer should be our first recourse, not our last resort
'Lord, please give us patience. NOW!'
Posts: 1464 | From: Neither here nor there | Registered: Mar 2012
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
We (more specifically Mrs Tor) have just had to ban, hopefully temporarily, her mum from driving. She tried to set off, twice, from outside of the house, without actually insuring the engine was on. The first time, she rolled into the conveniently positioned lamp post (which stopped her picking up enough speed to either demolish the neighbour's front wall or pitch twenty feet off a cliff).
Having checked the car over and backed it up for her, she then tried to do exactly the same thing again, but with me yelling at her. Joy.
She's on an increasingly high dose of blood pressure pills, and I'm wondering if that's affecting her - something to talk about with the nurse next time. But it's a crashing inconvenience as she refuses to walk anywhere (she's capable) or take the bus (she has a free pass, and is capable).
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Polly Plummer
Shipmate
# 13354
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Posted
The kindest way we've found of getting relatives to stop driving when they're not really capable is to point out that their eyesight isn't good enough - which in most cases is true, and much less distressing than querying the state of their marbles.
Posts: 577 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Except her eyesight is fine. Uncorrected, better than either of us. And she's got hearing aids, but won't wear them.
No matter how we dress this up, it's simply a matter of loss of ability, and we owe it to her, us and the entire neighbourhood to stop her driving until we can get her assessed.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Just had a long conversation with my brother about my mum. He and his wife are really keen for her to go and live near them. Until the weekend I was keen for her to stay in her own place, but she just came and stayed a few days and I'm not so sure any more.
She is still mentally very able, but her eyesight is very bad, which is making her very slow and uncertain when she is out walking. She also got scammed out of her credit card by a guy who followed her home from the shops and that was shaken her up a lot.
I've made it clear that I think that if she does move, either near my brother or near us she needs to be in sheltered accomodation.. She says she doesn't feel old enough for that yet. We're in a bit of an impasse...
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
I've not posted much on the thread, but drawn strength and wisdom from those who have.
I "helped" my lovely elderly maiden aunt C move into care last Wednesday. Not the happiest day of my life ![[Frown]](frown.gif) . Despite the careful pre-planning with her, I still took on the anger quote:
Why are you putting me away? Nobody tells me anything. It's all been done behind my back. You're treating me like a kid.
The thing is, she had decided that when the time came, this was the right place for her but when the vacancy came up, we only had about ten days' notice to move in. The staff are lovely, and I'm sure they'll do their best for this four week "trial visit" ![[Biased]](wink.gif) .
Now to try and make the sums add up, and start on clearing the flat. I'm not sure whether bringing her back in four weeks to select the small bits of furniture, pictures etc that would suit her new room would distress her too much. Maybe I could take some photos and we talk them over without driving back....
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Amika
Shipmate
# 15785
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Posted
I feel pretty isolated with the problem of my mum so reading here helps, but I wonder what other people think about my situation as I'm completely torn.
My mum had a stroke four years ago which has left her with left-sided weakness. She can now hobble about but she still can't use her left arm. She's only 74 now and fully able mentally although the stroke left her with a huge loss of confidence that she's never regained, which means she's very dependent on my sister and me. My dad died just six months after the stroke which was an extra blow.
She still lives in her own home - alone - and has carers three times a day to attend to cooking and bathing and getting into and out of bed. She has neighbours who pop in at various times in the week, I take her shopping at least twice a week as well as on the occasional outing, my brother visits every other weekend and my sister and me are there five days out of seven for a couple of hours (and sometimes more often and for longer). But she is still miserable. And so are we.
My sister and me have given four years to our mum, helping her to rehabilitate, etc., and now we are desperate to do our own thing. I am living in poverty (partly because I turned down job opportunities just after my mum's stroke) and can't get a job in this country. I'd like to try my luck abroad, maybe with teaching English as a foreign language, but I feel terrible at the thought of leaving my mum, and she isn't independent or the sort of person to say 'you have your own life'. She wants us all to carry on just as we are.
I'm very conscious of the passage of time, that I'm in my fifties and I should be getting some life now (I didn't have much of one in my younger years) before it's too late. I was happy to sacrifice some time for my mum, but now I feel as though I'm in a prison. Am I wrong to want my own life (back)?
Posts: 147 | From: Ingerland | Registered: Aug 2010
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
I don't think so but the real question is how are you going to feel about it?
You have to provide for yourself as well you can't not work.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Amika
Firstly you are not wrong with wanting your life back, its natural, its how you decide to handle that, that counts.
Secondly the break through point with my father came when he said "How are you getting on with your thesis?" and I replied "I am not". Taking care of Mum was taking up 24 hour a day 7 days a week and neither thesis nor work fitted around that.
At that point it became clear to him that we had to find other ways of coping. They might be ways we did not like but they had to be found never the less.
I admit to feeling like ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif) regularly with them and I am only acting as back stop to my sister but still.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Qoheleth, My dad went into care as an emergency measure. He blamed my sister-in-law (despite the fact that all the rest of the family totally agreed with her). He had some trouble getting used to being there, but when he died about 18 months later we could all honestly say that the last year of his life was the best since Mum died, around 10 years previously. He described one of the carers as "being like a mother to me" and one of the last people he called for when he was dying was the Activities person.
I'm not saying it will be smoothe going, but it may get better over time.
Amika, I am hoping you can find a real life person to talk to about this, someone who can appreciate your need to make a life for yourself.
I admire you and your siblings for the support you have given (which is far more than I could have), but I think there comes a time when you need to develop your own life. I don't think that is selfish at all.
Huia
[ 04. August 2013, 01:20: Message edited by: Huia ]
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Amika - I don't think you are selfish to want your own life. I agree with Huia about finding real life people to talk this through with, maybe starting with your siblings. Can local Social Servcies/Stroke Association help with social activities,extra rehabs etc?
Qoheleth - I hope your aunt settles in quickly. I agree that returning to select items for her room might be a bit too much, but maybe wait and see how well she settles in.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
Amika, I don't know how things are where you are. My MIL was determined to have her own bed. However, it did not fit OHS standard for nurses, cleaners etc at the home and she took a lot of persuading that she couldn't have it and would need one supplied by the facility. I'd get some guidance from them first so you will have some idea what she can or can't have there.
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amika:
I'm very conscious of the passage of time, that I'm in my fifties and I should be getting some life now (I didn't have much of one in my younger years) before it's too late. I was happy to sacrifice some time for my mum, but now I feel as though I'm in a prison. Am I wrong to want my own life (back)?
I don't think you are wrong at all.
I am in my fifties as well, and my parents are increasingly frail, but somehow still managing to prop one another up. There is an occasional emergency to deal with for one or other of them, but otherwise they do not impose on anyone.
Thinking of your situation in relation to my parents, I am sure it would cause me similar difficulties; I would find it hard to walk away from either of them, and feel that I was not doing the right thing.
However, thinking of it in relation to myself in 20 or 30 years time, and my daughter in her fifties, it is easier to work out what is appropriate and what is not.
My d is already a carer of sorts to me, but if at any point that means that part of who she is, or indeed who she might become, is lost for my sake, then I would be very unhappy.
I am not sure if that helps at all. Sometimes we can't tell what is right irt ourselves. Only irt others who we love; our children, nephews, friends or friends' children. Elderly parents forget that they are our parents, and indulge in role reversal. Sometimes this is fine, but there comes a point when it is no longer fine, and we need to find another way.
Imo, you are entitled to decide for yourself when you reach that time.
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
Now to try and make the sums add up, and start on clearing the flat. I'm not sure whether bringing her back in four weeks to select the small bits of furniture, pictures etc that would suit her new room would distress her too much. Maybe I could take some photos and we talk them over without driving back....
I think it depends on her mental capacity. If you told her she could return to choose furniture and she has the ability to remember that you said so, then that promise ought to be kept, imho.
Trust is a very fragile thing, and at a time of such intense change the last thing your aunt needs is to learn that she cannot trust her family to keep their word.
I would say in such a situation the distress of a visit is the lesser evil.
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
As I sat with her, telling her that the head wound didn't look too bad and she'd be OK, I said, "There's a ramp right next to the steps; you really should have taken the ramp."
I caught myself right away and said, "Of course that doesn't matter, you can't do anything about it now." About ten minutes later she lost consciousness and never regained it. I will always remember that one of the last things I said to her was exactly the sort of thing that used to drive me crazy when she said it to me.
I do not think that is anything to reproach yourself with.
Chances are this is a family parental voice. If she heard it at all, it would have been familiar, normal and something of a comfort.
You have unravelled the message and decided it is not appropriate for you. Chances are your mother never learned to do so, and that to her your words were like the voice of her own mother when she fell over as a child.
There are probably no better last words to hear.
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Qoheleth, We - meaning my generation - made it a strict rule that neither my father or Madame's mother would go back to their house after The Move. Both are in supported hostel care, not a high care nursing home, so each was able to take the bed, some familiar and special chairs, and so forth. They, with some support, made the decision themselves what to take, and removalists were engaged on the big day. Someone, more often than not one of the grandchildren, collects them for the usual visits (neither drives any more), but they have not been back to the houses they had lived in for many years even in gaps between tenants.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
GeeD, I was talking about the original move to supported hostel care. MIL took her two carved cedar chests, her china cabinet and its contents and a special chair. However, even in hostel care, the bed had to conform to certain standards.
She later moved to hospital care in the same complex and we had to empty her room.
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I am needing to tell my Dad that we are a team and if we are to succeed in getting them back living independently in their own home we all need to pull together and no he is not the captain of the team.
That means he needs to heed advice given on getting well, such as exercising, even if it is just walking up and down the corridor several times a day. He also needs to respect the demands my sister has on her life including his Grandchildren.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Amika
Shipmate
# 15785
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Posted
Thanks everyone for your replies. It's a relief to know it's not so terrible or unusual to feel this way.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. My sister and I talk about little else of late, and there is the problem of leaving her alone to deal with a responsibility I know she doesn't want if I were to leave the country. On the other hand my brother could potentially go abroad whatever the situation with my mum - historically he has always lived further away and been more remote from family problems.
Posts: 147 | From: Ingerland | Registered: Aug 2010
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Amika, I know what you mean about care of elderly parents taking over every conversation. As some will know from my posts earlier, my partner's parents are very elderly and still living in their own home. My partner and her youngest brother are the only two of six siblings living in the same city.
Our biggest problem until recently was her 3 elder sisters, who all live overseas, offering lots of advice without having a clue what was going on. Fortunately, they've all visited in the last few months, and 2 of them have a much better understanding of the issues. The volume of emails offering solutions has dropped massively. The third sister is still driving us nuts. She recently suggested that she could have the parents live with her in her NZ home - in a house that is 800km from all their friends, up a really steep drive, with lots of internal stairs, nowhere near shops or a library. Luckily, the other 2 sisters have agreed to back my partner on this one.
Jengie, I like your line about being a team and your dad not being captain - wish I could implement the same with my partner's dad...
On the other hand, my mum is doing brilliantly, having recovered almost all function except for weakness and reduced coordination in her right hand. She's happily (and safely) driving again, joined a biographical writing group and trotting off to see arthouse movies on her own.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Arabella, your mother never ceases to amaze me (from what I've read you post about her). If I live into my 70s and 80s I want to be like her.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Oh, me too. I've always admired my Mum. She's lived all her life in one small town, but its never seemed to limit her thinking.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo Catholic Relict:
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
Now to try and make the sums add up, and start on clearing the flat. I'm not sure whether bringing her back in four weeks to select the small bits of furniture, pictures etc that would suit her new room would distress her too much. Maybe I could take some photos and we talk them over without driving back....
I think it depends on her mental capacity. If you told her she could return to choose furniture and she has the ability to remember that you said so, then that promise ought to be kept, imho.
Trust is a very fragile thing, and at a time of such intense change the last thing your aunt needs is to learn that she cannot trust her family to keep their word.
I would say in such a situation the distress of a visit is the lesser evil.
I don't think there's a trust issue cos I deliberately haven't promised anything. In the end, she only had ten days notice of the actual date, but was in denial for most of that. We reassured her that we'll sort out the flat, but on the morning of the move, I found her half-heartedly trying to clear out the kitchen cupboards.
We're received sad and angry phone calls this first week. I do hope that the move hasn't pushed her confusion over the edge. I heard of the parent of a friend who took a year to settle and recognise the inevitability of a move into care.
Q.
not looking forward to the weekend's visit
![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
I don't think there's a trust issue cos I deliberately haven't promised anything. In the end, she only had ten days notice of the actual date, but was in denial for most of that. We reassured her that we'll sort out the flat, but on the morning of the move, I found her half-heartedly trying to clear out the kitchen cupboards.
We're received sad and angry phone calls this first week. I do hope that the move hasn't pushed her confusion over the edge. I heard of the parent of a friend who took a year to settle and recognise the inevitability of a move into care.
Q.
not looking forward to the weekend's visit
It sounds as if you are being very sensible, and doing your best in a difficult situation. The angry phone calls are probably to be expected; there is a natural process of grief involved for everyone, I would think.
I hope all goes well at the weekend.
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
Furthermore, have any UK Shipmates succesfully negotiated down care home fees for a self-funder, please? A PM would be appreciated.
Q.
[ 08. August 2013, 12:12: Message edited by: Qoheleth. ]
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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The Kat in the Hat
Shipmate
# 2557
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Posted
We were really lucky to find a fantastic care home for FIL. Although it is a private home, they took him in for the council funding cost only. We didn't have to top up any fees (not that we could!)
Sadly, it looks as if it won't be long before he won't need any care. He had a seizure yesterday, and is now on morphine. It would be a blessing and a relief as he has had little quality of life for quite a while now - but we can't fault the care he has received from all the staff. He is far better looked after in the home than anywhere else
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Less is more ...
Posts: 485 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
Things may be looking up. C was a Methodist local (= lay) preacher for 60 years, and a visitor emailed me yesterday: quote:
I visited C today and J [the chaplain] was leading a service and asked C to give a little talk after J had read the story of the healing at the pool on the Sabbath (John 5). J had arranged it with C. the day before but, needless to say, C had completely forgotten - nevertheless it was a very good sermon and it even gained applause at the end!!
![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
My 95 yr old mum is in an aged care facility up the road from me, and it's brilliant. But the need for her to be relocated there happened suddenly, and I don;t think any of us cope fantastically with 'sudden'. Every day she says she hates the climate in this city, even though she is in a totally enclosed environment and it doesn't actually affect her. Two years later, she is getting 100% on all her health checks, has more visitors each week and many more activities available to engage in than she has ever had before in all her senior years. But living in institutionalized care is not easy for most of us, and be prepared for a long transition phase into acceptance if you have to facilitate a relative doing this. I am grateful I have a very practical partner who knows how to keep me sane when my buttons have been pushed by this dear old lady.
So, for your own sanity, have a checklist ready.
Is she safer? Less anxious? Health monitored better/more regularly? Diet improved? Access to activities and services easier?
Mobility issues addressed? Room maintenance adequate? Made any comfortable aquaintances? Laundry done? Smells clean? etc etc.
I have found it easy to get involved in the nursing home, as volunteers are few and far between. When a gap appeared in the roster for running the kiosk there, I filled it. This helped me to meet a lot of the other residents, and got my mother out of her room; because if she wanted to see me, she had to make an effort to go to the counter for a chat. I also eat with her there once a week - this helps me to monitor the food situation there. No one, it seems, is ever happy with the food in an institution. Most of the residents moan about it, and I pity the kitchen staff.
But despite it being 'dreadful stuff' (no, it's not), the regular well planned meals are doing her good.
Don't beat yourself up if you are facing this challenge with your aged p. Nothing is ever perfect, but with a few good checks and boundaries in place, you may both thrive! Just don't expect to hear any acknowledgement of that fact from them. Sigh.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Niteowl
Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
Excellent post Banner Lady. My own doctor gave me a lot of the same advice recently as my mother's health is rapidly declining and mine is not good either. (I'm her primary care giver)
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"love all, trust few, do wrong to no one"
Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Thanks for all that sensible advice Banner Lady, I think I need to stop stressing about things regarding my mum so much.
I've seen quite a bit of my mum these last three weeks, and it is becoming noticable to me that she is on the start of the road of needing a bit more help. A lot of it is due to her eyesight, but I think she is slowing up in other ways too. She has been offered a cateract operation for her 'good' eye, which, having had one myself, I think will make a good bit of difference to her sight. She's not keen in case it goes wrong.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
To be forced to give up all familiar surroundings is frightening and disempowering - and I suspect my generation will cope even less well than the 'builder' generation of my parents. When I was left as the sole family member in charge of my mother's welfare, my other half made some wise observations to me. She needed to feel as much control as possible. She needed some privacy. And she needed to be able to vent occasionally to us, because we are the closest to her.
So every decision that could reasonably be made by her and not by us, we left to her, and followed through on her wishes.
We 'moved her in' gradually. That is, we set up the basics when she was relocated, and then let her choose where to put things over time, adding quality as we went. This gave her ownership of the process. After all, you need to live in a new environment for a while before understanding what works best.
She hated the fact that staff would simply walk into her room or bathroom at any time, so we hung a sign on the door saying THANK YOU FOR KNOCKING!
We listen sympathetically to her grumbles, and do what we can to alleviate them. Most of them were about the mealtimes interfering with her TV viewing, so we made sure she had a small fridge on top of a pantry cupboard, and we shop for her, as she hates shopping.
We watched for what pleased her, and worked at enjoying it with her. This was the tiny apron of garden outside her window. Over time we added things to attract the birds, and now she has a gaggle of feathered friends who demand feeding at sunup and sundown. Fortunately she was always an early riser, and she saves the unwanted bread from the dining room for them.
Is she happy? No. But she is sensible enough to know this is the best place for her own physical comfort, and for mine. She works at being settled, because it alleviates stress from my life, and I appreciate the fact that she loves me that much. I love having such a strong minded, independent and often critical old lady for a mother. She's a survivor, and she will go down fighting. I just hope I can do the same some day.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Back from 4 days at a lake cabin with 86 year old father. Took him from assisted living and assisted his living with us for the extended weekend. He seems to expect so much, and denies and doesn't recall his and my dead mother's abandonment of us when they moved 8000 km away to live in their no-guest room house ( we don't mention the disconnection amidst his false recall of closeness). Can't make it right in any way, but 4 days is the limit for sure. And I also thank friend scotch which helped me both understand better and talk like him.
I post this both as a bit of catharsis and to recognize my realization with reading some of the softer hearted and harder hearted posts above that a harder heart is sometimes required, that when a softer one gets the guilt placed on it, it bleeds and gets bruised more easily. Some of us need our hearts of stone replaced with those of flesh, and others of us may need the reverse Godly surgery.
So I read through this thread, and now post on return. The following is more than a bit odd.
The bear that dog and I met on the trail walk, bolted when it first saw us, then circled and followed until I yelled and threw some deadfall at it made me something not thought of for years: somewhere in the bible it is said that God can be be as bear planning an ambush. Which stuck with me in a youthful Narnia phase.
Some place in the bible there is a bear isn't there, planning to attack, and a lion is also mentioned? I cannot recall if I made this one up back then and again now. It jumped to my brains when I threw the logs at the bear on Saturday. Thus I think I'd better be a little 'harder' or God the bear will stalk me again. -- or I had too much scotch -- or the word finding and loose thinking is catching.
[ 27. August 2013, 02:02: Message edited by: no prophet ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I speak to my mother - albeit briefly - on the phone every week and I see her approx every 4 to 6 weeks. Last week I discovered that she didn't know the subject of my PhD. This has been a major focus of my life for the past 4 years, but somehow I have failed to communicate this to my mother. She thought I was studying "English Literature." She wasn't even in the correct ball-park area of "History." Now I know that when I did my M.Litt, she assumed, reasonably enough, that that involved literature of some description, but I told her then what my subject area was. I assume that she's just failed to register anything I have ever said about my PhD.
If I say anything - anything at all - which might suggest that I am ill / impoverished / worried about something, then she picks it up immediately, even if I'm not actually ill / impoverished / worried. But she hasn't registered that for the past almost four years I have been doing a PhD in a subject which I started studying fourteen years ago.
Is there any way of salvaging a good relationship now, while she's healthy and in full possession of her faculties? Some way of telling her about things which make me happy, so that she knows I'm happy? Instead of constantly having to reassure her that I'm not unhappy IYSWIM?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
NEQ: my mother died when I was 44 and papa when I was 55. Neither of them ever asked me what A level results I got, certainly never came to any concert I was performing in - and forget about degree ceremonies.
It was the same for my older siblings - zero interest.
I realise that parents being very involved in their children's lives is a relatively new thing but even so, I'm pretty sure the level of disengagement my parents had was fairly remarkable.
As for any achievements post university/college - I think one sibling invited them to a conferment when they got their PhD but, as far as I'm aware, they didn't show.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Is there any way of salvaging a good relationship now, while she's healthy and in full possession of her faculties? Some way of telling her about things which make me happy, so that she knows I'm happy? Instead of constantly having to reassure her that I'm not unhappy IYSWIM?
Maybe.
I write this as someone whose parents moved away the year our first child was born, now many years ago. I was in a Master's program at the time, and went on to a PhD well. They built a house with no guest rooms and were 15-20 hours, 3 airplanes and a cab ride away. My mother died 4 years ago and although I had pushed the relationship thing, and knowledge of our children and our lives, and wish to know their's, it never really happened. And not because I didn't try. And that's the key I think. You try. You have a mix of kind and harsh words - because in my opinion if it is just kind and you feel harsh then you're not being honest and may pay for it in the future with an "I wish I'd said...".
I bailed out my father who didn't tell us he was essentially blind (and still driving; sees again thanks to a corneal transplant which I arranged, but he's not going to drive again!). I moved him back after setting him up to live, get nursing home care eventually etc and die where they'd moved to, and no thanks for that either. He has very good command of his mind at 86, but doesn't really care to be involved. I being to our house and talk to him, or rather let him talk about people I don't know and give instructions, but there's very very little real engagement. Again, trying.
I loved my in-laws dearly, and they were the salvation of grandparenthood and parents to both of us. It's just the way things go sometimes. I think it can't be helped. Try. Then accept. Works mostly for me.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
NEQ: quote:
If I say anything - anything at all - which might suggest that I am ill / impoverished / worried about something, then she picks it up immediately, even if I'm not actually ill / impoverished / worried. But she hasn't registered that for the past almost four years I have been doing a PhD in a subject which I started studying fourteen years ago.
Maybe she feels like she ought to try and help (even if only with sympathy) if you are ill/impoverished/worried, but feels intimidated by your PhD subject and 'blanks' it? My mum's a bit like that with my work - she never went to university herself (although she was brainy enough, IMO) and although she does listen when I talk about it I can see her eyes glazing over. Which is fair enough - I find some of the things she's interested in mind-numbingly dull, too. But she does care about me, and she shows it by taking an interest in incidents in my daily life - and yes, by worrying about minor incidents, indications that I'm having health problems and Stuff That Might Never Happen.
My mother-in-law used to be the one who I could talk to about my work, but she's got Alzheimer's now.
[ 17. October 2013, 10:08: Message edited by: Jane R ]
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I reckon Jane R's hit it on the head - your mum probably feels that she doesn't know enough about your subject to converse about it.
I work for and with people who either have, or are working towards, PhDs in genetics, and I'd be scared stiff of trying to converse about them, except as far as my own work remit goes.
Now that I think about it, I don't remember ever discussing school work with my mum (except possibly about music and German, which she'd done at evening classes). It wasn't that she wasn't interested, just that she probably didn't think that she'd be able to help.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Thank you, everyone. It's not that I want her to chat knowledgeably about my PhD, it just came as a bit of a shock that she thought I was studying "English Literature." And I'm conscious that she's now 80, albeit a very active 80, and that time may be running out to improve our relationship.
Mum's still very much the matriarch. She loves nothing better than to have the whole family round the table, eating one of her amazing, vast and delicious meals. But she won't let me into her kitchen while she's cooking, and she won't visit me, unless there's a reason, and won't eat a meal I've cooked. So although she and I both enjoy cooking, it's not a "shared interest" either.
There's quite a lot of things I've never done with my mother; I don't think I've ever taken her out for a coffee, for example, and I've never bought her a nice present. She's always worried that I "can't afford" to buy presents, and she doesn't particularly enjoy receiving presents, either. (This isn't just me, one cousin stopped speaking to her after Mum wrote a thank-you note for a Christmas present of a fruit cake, saying she wished she hadn't sent it, as the postage cost was out-of-proportion to the gift and she hadn't enjoyed the cake because she was so upset by the postage!)
Mum herself is very generous, and spends a lot of money on her family.
Jane R I think you're spot-on when you say
quote:
But she does care about me, and she shows it by taking an interest in incidents in my daily life - and yes, by worrying about minor incidents, indications that I'm having health problems and Stuff That Might Never Happen.
My daughter was looking at an old photo of my Mum, at about the age I am now, standing next to her mother, and said that the resemblance was uncanny "Look, Mum, Gran has her teeth gritted and fists clenched in exactly the same way that you do, when you're standing next to her now!"
Perhaps Mum is simply projecting her relationship with her mother onto me. Except I don't really know, because Mum's relationship with her mother is yet another thing we don't talk about.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I think maybe some parents allow worry to take over their lives past common sense and even plain courtesy. We're struggling with a "doesn't want to be involved" (grand)parent too. She only shows an interest/ normal family concern when someone's in serious medical trouble. Any other trouble, or any joyful occasion, and it's Meh.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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The Intrepid Mrs S
Shipmate
# 17002
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Posted
I would hate this thread to disappear as it reassures me that The Dowager Mrs S, however much she infuriates me and I grumble about her, is actually doing amazingly well. She can be hideously rude - but quite without meaning to - but there's no doubt she loves us all and is deeply interested in everything we care to tell her about.
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
I'm so sorry that not everyone has this experience with their parents...not the rudeness obviously
I should have put this on Praise and Thanksgiving, shouldn't I?
Mrs S, growing daily more like her mother
(so New SiL will not be able to say he didn't know what he was getting!) ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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Don't get your knickers in a twist over your advancing age. It achieves nothing and makes you walk funny.
Prayer should be our first recourse, not our last resort
'Lord, please give us patience. NOW!'
Posts: 1464 | From: Neither here nor there | Registered: Mar 2012
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
I found this on page 3, so obviously all parents are well but, like the Intrepid Mrs S, I do not want it to disappear.
Having spent a couple of days with my mother, I'm troubled by a change in her attitude towards me. I was brought up to be my own, independent person, but now my mother seems to expect me to be a clone of her, so exhibiting behavioural traits that I acquired from my father is sure to get her disapproval. She doesn't seem to be losing her marbles at all, just becoming even more self-centred and unable to distinguish me as a separate person.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Hmmmmm
Going to be lurking here for a while, reading ALL the back pages. It's making a while heap of sense of a situation that i am finding myself in.......
Certainly just reading this makes me feel less alone
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
My Mum is 92, can't walk, can only eat pureed food fed to her, has dementia and recognises nobody, sleeps nearly all day every day and is doubly incontinent. One of the family visits her every day in turn. Not for her sake or ours, but to be sure the home are taking good care of her (they are).
She is perfectly contented but it's time she went 'home'
I posted this on 30th January 2013.
All is just the same now, except that she is thinner, her hands are clenched into fists and she almost never speaks.
Every six months or so she gets a cold and her lungs start to fill up as she can't cough. Then she rallies and continues her non-life.
One of us still visits every day.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
[ 30. December 2013, 15:04: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427
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Posted
Boogie - that's really hard. I'm so sorry.
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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.
Posts: 1289 | Registered: May 2011
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:
Boogie - that's really hard. I'm so sorry.
Thank you Nenya. I think we are all getting so used to the situation that we think it's permanent - which is not the case, of course.
Sometimes I feel harsh to be getting on with life - but it has to be done.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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