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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Aging Parents
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I can sympathise with your situation, Boogie - my mum spent the last 10 years of her life in the geriatric ward of the local hospital (where the care was excellent), and for most of that time she was in the same situation as your mum. We moved to Canada about 18 months after she went in, and although we told her about it, I really don't think she ever understood that we'd moved.
My dad visited her twice a day for the first eight or so years, then he had a TIA and couldn't drive any more, so reduced it to once a day. When we went over on holiday we joined in all the visits, more for Dad's sake than hers. I think she still knew him for several years after going into hospital, but probably not the rest of us, who were only there occasionally.
When she died (aged 84), it was quite sudden: she developed some kind of pneumonia-type infection, and passed away quietly in her sleep. I remember Dad taking it very well: I think he had, in a way, said his farewells when she went into hospital (it broke his heart leaving her there every evening), and she'd been "gone" from him for so long that the end was almost a relief.
I'm sorry if this meandered a bit, but the drift of it is, you're very much not alone.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
I wonder if I can interject here - I am not talking about a parent, but a sister-in-law, nearly 9 years older than I, who after a vigorous and productive working life, and a happy, busy retirement, has slid quickly into dementia. I still visit her at least twice every year (she lives a distance from me) and I still enjoy seeing her, but the person I have known for over 60 years is gone. Not likely to change. Because of her influence in my life, she was a positive agent for change. I miss her more than I can say.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
Feeling very frustrated about Mr Bee's 93 year old Dad.
He stayed for 4 days over Christmas, getting over a cold. His chest was very rattly and his cough was alarming. Mr Bee phones him daily and his cough is still bad. We are encouraging him to go to the GP as we think he may have a chest infection, but he's not going.
He also has a very swollen foot; his doctor knows about this. We bought him loose wide shoes 2 sizes larger than his usual size for Christmas so he doesn't have to squeeze his feet into his leather lace ups.
He won't raise his legs when sitting though we reminded him so many times it became a nag. Just sits cross legged.
What can we do? ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
Posts: 5257 | From: me to you. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Tree Bee - Are there any other family members who might have more sway to persuade your father in law to go to the doctors? I hope he gets better soon.
Not a problem I have with my mum, she's always taken very good care of her health, and is off down the surgery as soon as anything doesn't feel quite right.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
No, Mr Bee is an only child.
We asked him today if actually getting to the surgery was a problem but he said that wasn't it.
What it is, he didn't say.
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
Posts: 5257 | From: me to you. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
Tree Bee - at that age the fear of what might happen to you if you go into hospital is often greater than the discomfort of the current condition.
Most people want to die at home and many are very reluctant (for good reasons imo) to go to hospital or even see a doctor, fearing that they will lose all control over their life and death.
My opinion is that nagging him won't do any good at all. If he has the capacity to make his own decisions then the best you can do is make sure he knows that help is available to get him to the doctor if he wants to go and respect and support him in the decisions he makes
If Mr Tree Bee (as he is the official nok) decides that father does not have capacity then there are legal processes that will eventually mean that he can be forced to see a doctor. Possibly. The process will be hugely distressing for everyone and you need to be sure the outcome will be worth that.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
My father had a yard of cancerous intestine removed 4 years ago and refused any follow-up, i.e., no scan to see if there was cancer elsewhere. So far, he's okay. He's only back in Canada because I was able to arrange eye surgery here for the one eye he sees out of, and the corneal transplant has worked well.
My mother had a stroke in front of me and my wife, and when we got to hospital Emerg, took the aspirin and clot busting drug and then refused all subsequent care. She had a seizure after that and broke her hip when she fell, then (living out of country) refused offer of paying for the surgery versus waiting in bed, threw another clot and died of a stroke.
My point is that there is nothing to be done about medical refuseniks even if they are completely stupid and the wages of the refusal is death. And it makes no difference to them if they are your family, they are not thinking so much about you. You will pay emotionally if you get to medical care and will pay emotionally if you don't. It's a giant screw-up, at least for my family.
And don't expect other family to help, they will swoop in and agree with the stupidity, undoing any number of months' gentle persuasion. The wages for that is death too. But that's other dead relatives, and I'm going on far too long. -- ultimately everyone makes their own choices, as sensible or not as they are, and then lives and dies by them. This, I have learned.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
There's sometimes an element of "I don't want to be any bother" about our parents' generation, although they're sometimes a lot more trusting of the medical profession than we are; when they were young, the doctor was only a couple of steps below God. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I hope you'll be able to persuade Mr. Bee Snr. to see that doctors are there to be used when necessary.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
Tree Bee - at that age the fear of what might happen to you if you go into hospital is often greater than the discomfort of the current condition.
Most people want to die at home and many are very reluctant (for good reasons imo) to go to hospital or even see a doctor, fearing that they will lose all control over their life and death.
My opinion is that nagging him won't do any good at all. If he has the capacity to make his own decisions then the best you can do is make sure he knows that help is available to get him to the doctor if he wants to go and respect and support him in the decisions he makes
If Mr Tree Bee (as he is the official nok) decides that father does not have capacity then there are legal processes that will eventually mean that he can be forced to see a doctor. Possibly. The process will be hugely distressing for everyone and you need to be sure the outcome will be worth that.
Thyme, piglet and no prophet, thanks for your comments. Grandad Bee does indeed have the capacity to make his own decisions, he has all his marbles!
We think what you say is correct about fear of losing control of his circumstances, also what piglet says about not wanting to bother the doctor.
What worries me is the wilful self neglect. I find this frustrating and hard to understand.
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
Posts: 5257 | From: me to you. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tree Bee:
What worries me is the wilful self neglect. I find this frustrating and hard to understand.
Yes, this is very hard. I have no answers. Middle age is a strange time. We have been through all the anguish of letting our children grow up, do their own thing and go their own way, and then we have to do it all again in reverse with our parents, trying to find the right balance between letting them get on with it and trying to protect them.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
quote:
Originally posted by Tree Bee:
What worries me is the wilful self neglect. I find this frustrating and hard to understand.
Yes, this is very hard. I have no answers. Middle age is a strange time. We have been through all the anguish of letting our children grow up, do their own thing and go their own way, and then we have to do it all again in reverse with our parents, trying to find the right balance between letting them get on with it and trying to protect them.
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) Yup.
Thanks for your perspective. It has relaxed me somewhat.
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
Posts: 5257 | From: me to you. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone on this thread. Its keeping me both entertained and sane while we go through many of the same things you're going through. I got my partner to read it over the weekend, and it was a huge help for her.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tree Bee:
Feeling very frustrated about Mr Bee's 93 year old Dad.
He stayed for 4 days over Christmas, getting over a cold. His chest was very rattly and his cough was alarming. Mr Bee phones him daily and his cough is still bad. We are encouraging him to go to the GP as we think he may have a chest infection, but he's not going.
He also has a very swollen foot; his doctor knows about this. We bought him loose wide shoes 2 sizes larger than his usual size for Christmas so he doesn't have to squeeze his feet into his leather lace ups.
He won't raise his legs when sitting though we reminded him so many times it became a nag. Just sits cross legged.
What can we do?
There is a bit of a parallel with my mum. She has had several chest infections, one of which resulted in pleurisy because she left it weeks before going to the dr.
In mid Dec I got a phone call from my brother who had just visited my parents. He said mum was unwell, and he had just left. I went straight round, and found her v unwell. I got her to a dr that day, and then to her own GP the next. She managed to stay out of hospital, but it was touch and go.
While I was trying to stay both calm and dealing with this, dad was talking about '3 day colds and 5 day colds', and mum was still saying she was 'all right'.
This kind of situation happens a lot, and I am generally the person who cuts through the fog of their denial, and calls for a doctor/gets them to A&E/sorts it out somehow. All I can suggest is staying calm, staying adult and managing as best you can. As others have said, there may be a fear of hospitals, but by avoiding treatment, a hospital stay becomes more likely, not less.
I went back to my parents after all of this, and agreed with them a strategy aimed at keeping them out of A&E for the whole year. It starts with me going with mum to her doctor and asking how we can best achieve that. I even agreed when we would do it; this is probably the very first time my parents have agreed to proactive health care.
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo Catholic Relict:
I went back to my parents after all of this, and agreed with them a strategy aimed at keeping them out of A&E for the whole year. It starts with me going with mum to her doctor and asking how we can best achieve that. I even agreed when we would do it; this is probably the very first time my parents have agreed to proactive health care.
That's brilliant.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
Visited Grandad Bee today and spent time cleaning and hoovering.
His cough is still there but improved so hopefully he dodged this one.
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
Posts: 5257 | From: me to you. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
My partner's elderly parents (92 and 95) were finally persuaded to have a care assessment this week, and surprise, surprise, are entitled to rather a lot of care. The nurse came for the first time today to set up the schedule.
Now we just have to convince mother-in-law to have a bath in the morning instead of at 10.30-11pm, when no care is available. She's become very confused, but she's sticking rigidly to having her bath late at night when no one can hear her if she can't get out.
The care coordinator has also put her down for respite care once a month. Personally I think this will happen around the same time Kim Jong Un starts peace talks with South Korea. Its good to know the option is there, though.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Mum is on the 'end of life plan' now. It could be two days, two weeks or two months. She will be going to my brother's farm for the last few days, whenever they are.
Her lungs are filling up (again) but this time her drinks are sometimes going down the wrong way too. So she's now on palliative care only. No more medication.
In some ways it's a relief, she has no life, it's time. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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The Intrepid Mrs S
Shipmate
# 17002
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Posted
(((Boogie)))
Mrs. S, hoping that situation never comes to the Dowager
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Don't get your knickers in a twist over your advancing age. It achieves nothing and makes you walk funny.
Prayer should be our first recourse, not our last resort
'Lord, please give us patience. NOW!'
Posts: 1464 | From: Neither here nor there | Registered: Mar 2012
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
Prayers and upholding for you all, Boogie.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427
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Posted
Boogie and Boogie's mum and family.
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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.
Posts: 1289 | Registered: May 2011
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
for Boogie, Boogie's mum and family.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
For you and your Mum and your family Boogie. May your Mum have a peaceful end.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
{{{Boogie and her mum}}}
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Yes, prayers for Boogie and mum and family.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Fredegund
Shipmate
# 17952
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Posted
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Pax et bonum
Posts: 117 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Jan 2014
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
For Boogie and her mum
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Thank you all.
Mum is now back home at my Brother's farm in her own bed. I am preparing to go there today and stay with them, to be with her in her last days.
So far I would describe her as 'peaceful' - I dearly hope she stays that way as she fades.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Here's to peaceful, Boogie.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427
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Posted
Grace and peace to Boogie's mum, Boogie and the whole family.
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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.
Posts: 1289 | Registered: May 2011
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
Holding you all in the Light, Boogie.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
Prayers for a peaceful passing, Boogie.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Meg the Red
Shipmate
# 11838
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Posted
May your Mom slip away gently, Boogie - praying for all of you.
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Chocoholic Canuckistani Cyclopath
Posts: 1126 | From: Rat Creek | Registered: Sep 2006
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
again from me, for Boogie and your mum.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Boadicea Trott
Shipmate
# 9621
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Posted
Boogie, my prayers for your mum, for you and all your family.
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X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 563 | From: Roaming the World in my imagination..... | Registered: Jun 2005
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Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824
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Posted
Boogie, and all the family.
My dad is also nearing the end of his life. He's been in a residential home for 4 years - amongst other things he has small vessel disease so is vulnerable to mini strokes. It looks as though he had another of these just under a week ago; he's quite suddenly lost the ability to swallow food of any texture and his speech is slurred and very quiet. He is drinking small amounts but at least half of it dribbles straight back out.
The GP for the home rang my mum and had a long chat, as a result of which she's decided to ask for him to be kept as comfortable as possible in the residential home rather than be admitted to hospital and put on any sort of artificial feeding system.
Rationally, I think this is the best decision. Even before this latest episode he wasn't able to walk, stand or see, couldn't really take in new information, and conversations had got more and more disjointed. Every time he's been in hospital he's deteriorated and has become very distressed when he starts to recover and finds he's even more disabled than before. He doesn't seem distressed at present, isn't in pain (he is communicating a little but it takes a long time) and will probably slip away fairly peacefully over the next couple of weeks or maybe sooner, depending on how much fluid he retains.
It is a big decision though and feels very strange at the moment.
Posts: 689 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Aravis I feel for you.
Mum is on end of life medications, there are several which are only given if and when needed. I must say they are excellent and keeping her completely comfortable.
She is home here at my brother's farm, her bed is in the kitchen. My whole family are here and we are taking it in turns to sit with her, all day and all night.
End of life seems very much like birth to me - a time when the whole world shifts on its axis.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
For Aravis and Boogie
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427
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Posted
Aravis and Boogie and all the families.
My mum was on an end of life plan shortly before she died. Sadly she was in hospital 2.5 hours away from me and too ill to move by the time we realised we needed to, so I could only visit. But the care she received was excellent. I am very moved by the picture of your mum in a bed in the kitchen surrounded 24/7 by her loving family, Boogie. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.
Posts: 1289 | Registered: May 2011
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
That's a brilliant link Boogie, thank you.
Love and prayers to you and Aravis, and all the families.
[ 06. February 2014, 06:41: Message edited by: Taliesin ]
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
Boogie and Aravis, my heart goes out to you, to all those at the end of their lives, and for their families.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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