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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Whom shall we send? The Vocations Thread
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Another voice chiming in to say that vocational thoughts never go away unless you do something about them.
You ask, "How do you know the difference between a vocation and a completely bonkers bee in your bonnet?" The answer to that is at once very simple and rather involved: you submit the potential vocation to the Church for scrutiny. Also, when you talk about volunteering to help with something, don't necessarily think of that as an "alternative." That could be precisely the experience you need to make the discernment a little more concrete.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Earwig
Pincered Beastie
# 12057
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Posted
Glad you posted Pia! I'm not ordained or in the process thereof, but Hart's reply makes much sense. Also, if it's really scary to think of talking to your priest about this, keep talking to God about it, and explore lots of volunteering opportunities. If they are what you feel 'right' doing, keep doing them. If they don't feel 'right' and the call keeps on calling, you'll have hopefully gained some confidence and experience on the way?
Posts: 3120 | From: Yorkshire | Registered: Nov 2006
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
You ask, "How do you know the difference between a vocation and a completely bonkers bee in your bonnet?" The answer to that is at once very simple and rather involved: you submit the potential vocation to the Church for scrutiny.
And even then, when they initially accept you for training, you'll still have that thought going round and round in your head on the bad days.
And I've been told that even once you're ordained, it doesn't go away. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Tho I suspect one rather accepts that the church has made the right choice after a time. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Well done posting here Pia. Talking about it all is the first step!
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Pia
Shipmate
# 17277
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Posted
Oh, thank you all, again.
I really like Hart's and Earwig's practical approach - find things I can do, that are un-scary in the first instance (things maybe that even my husband can cope with!), and go from there. That makes so much more sense.
I am really glad I posted now, as you've helped me to see the wood for the trees a bit... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 151 | Registered: Aug 2012
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Niminypiminy
Shipmate
# 15489
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Posted
Slightly late, but I'm another one saying that you should do something about that bee in your bonnet. And I don't think you should worry too much about saying 'what I want', because God works through our desires as well as against their grain. So stick with it, volunteer for something and see how that feels, and keep talking - here is a good place. Discerning what you are called to can be a long process, and is often unsettling and scary. But it's also amazing and exciting to feel that God is calling you to something - even when it isn't clear what or why or how.
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Lives of the Saints: songs by The Unequal Struggle
http://www.theunequalstruggle.com/
Posts: 776 | From: Edge of the Fens | Registered: Feb 2010
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
.....and the journey in question is a long one. Time is a gift from God. We are not the same person as we were when the process started. Neither are our loved ones. Life happens. Things change. Some people loose faith. Others surprisingly find it. We shall pray.
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
So. Today I was chatting to the chaplain at uni (the chaplaincy having been a great anchoring place for me here, much more so than the CU) and being the third person at the university to express interest in pursuing a vocation, we naturally fell to discussing that. It's been becoming clear that it *is* something I should look at, no matter how scary it is to me - and it really is scary! So the chaplain has emailed the DDO about a casual chat with me and the other two interested students. I know this is still all unofficial but it feels like I'm actually moving forward in this! It's scary and huge but very exciting. Would appreciate prayers, and praying for Pia too ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Pia
Shipmate
# 17277
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Posted
Hello Jade. I am still here, still lurking...
I've had really good experiences of our chaplaincy, which has helped me through some tough situations. Glad you're having a good experience too. Praying for you.
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
So who fancies applying for this wonderful, wonderful job!
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
So who fancies applying for this wonderful, wonderful job!
As a general question, at what stage in the process did people tell others about their vocation? How was it done? Coming from a spiritual background that's roughly half lapsed Catholic/Anglo-Catholic and half con-evo (and neither side really on-board with female clergy) and having a lot of liberal secular/atheist friends (who don't get why a modern feminist woman would want to be a priest in the first place), I have a lot of people to tell at some stage and have no idea how it will be taken. Depending on how this all pans out anyway...
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Slowly, starting only with closest friends, family and mentors. Once I'd been accepted as an applicant, I told more people, but I didn't go public till I'd actually been accepted to start the next year. Many people's reactions surprised me, especially that people's enthusiasm wasn't correlated with their church-i-ness.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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deusluxmea
Apprentice
# 15765
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Posted
Futzing around the internet today, I stumbled on the Episcopal Diocese of Washington website. As some of you may know, the Bishop temporarily halted accepting any more ordinands in January, stating "we simply have too many clergy in the Episcopal Church now."
Is this true of all dioceses? I know that the TEC population is getting smaller, but had assumed, somewhat naively, that clergy presence would keep things chugging along...
Posts: 19 | Registered: Jul 2010
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deusluxmea:
As some of you may know, the Bishop temporarily halted accepting any more ordinands in January, stating "we simply have too many clergy in the Episcopal Church now."
That's interesting.
Here in Australia we have a massive shortage of local clergy in the Anglican church. We have to import them regularly from England.
But I hear the Episcopal church pay is much, much better than ours.
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a theological scrapbook
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deusluxmea:
Futzing around the internet today, I stumbled on the Episcopal Diocese of Washington website. As some of you may know, the Bishop temporarily halted accepting any more ordinands in January, stating "we simply have too many clergy in the Episcopal Church now."
Is this true of all dioceses? I know that the TEC population is getting smaller, but had assumed, somewhat naively, that clergy presence would keep things chugging along...
Wow. Send some to Wales. Or eastern Canada; I know they're running low there.
Posts: 1637 | From: North Wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Possibly the Diocese of Washington/ TEC actaully welcomes people who think they might have a vocation, and doesn't treat them as if they are presumed to be some kind of weirdo until they can prove otherwise- unlike certain Provinces I can name (hint: Panda mentioned one of them, and the other one's next door, to the East).
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Niminypiminy
Shipmate
# 15489
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Posted
Talking of Wales, as we sort-of were, there's still time to catch up with the BBC Wales realty show about ordinands in training, 'Vicar Academy'', set in St Michael's College. If you're not in Wales, you can get it on I-player. It's quite interesting, although there's far too much of 'but now she is facing the toughest test of her life' kind of narration. There are three episodes on I-player now with a fourth this week.
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Lives of the Saints: songs by The Unequal Struggle
http://www.theunequalstruggle.com/
Posts: 776 | From: Edge of the Fens | Registered: Feb 2010
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by deusluxmea:
As some of you may know, the Bishop temporarily halted accepting any more ordinands in January, stating "we simply have too many clergy in the Episcopal Church now."
That's interesting.
Here in Australia we have a massive shortage of local clergy in the Anglican church. We have to import them regularly from England.
But I hear the Episcopal church pay is much, much better than ours.
Not from what I understand.
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848
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Posted
Regarding pay. Generally in the US, from what I understand, pay and conditions are generally far worse than our minimum stipend/package (with the exception of well endowed parishes, of course).
Mind you, I think of all the dioceses in Oz, Brisbane appears to have the best pay conditions, so... it could be relative. (Minimum stipend next year is $57912, plus car, house plus utilities/housing allowance, and the option of salary sacrificing up to 30%... Not sure how that compares.)
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001
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harmony hope
Shipmate
# 4070
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Posted
Having secretly lurked since my BAP back in March 2010 I'm quietly putting my hand up here to say that I'm going for a second time in 3 weeks' and 6 days' time... exciting and slightly terrifying all at the same time but I'm trusting that I'm being obedient in going for a 2nd time and as my sense of calling hasn't lessened one little bit since then I think it's just what I have to do!
Your prayers would be very welcome -I just wanted to share this! My prayers are with everyone as they seek to discern God's will...
H Hope
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'God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference.'
Posts: 645 | From: gentle rolling Oxfordshire countryside | Registered: Feb 2003
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Best of luck H Hope.
I have a first informal chat with the DDO today and more nervous than I probably should be!
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
Prayers for you Harmony Hope as you go back into the fray and for Jade Constable as she enters it.
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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Niminypiminy
Shipmate
# 15489
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Posted
Prayers for Harmony and Jade
My last meeting with the DDO left me feeling like I'd fallen into a black hole. Not sure I'm out of it yet. Only six weeks to wait until the next one...
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Lives of the Saints: songs by The Unequal Struggle
http://www.theunequalstruggle.com/
Posts: 776 | From: Edge of the Fens | Registered: Feb 2010
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harmony hope
Shipmate
# 4070
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Posted
Thank you everyone - it means a lot to me to be held in prayer.
I have no idea how it can take as long to prepare selection papers the second time round as it did the first but it's been quite a lot to get done on top of my usual work/family/church committments...in between my vicar has left and my DDO has changed so the prayers of everyone are even more comforting!
Now all I need to do is to stop waking up in the night thinking about my talk - the sooner I commit something to paper the better I think!
for everyone on the discernment journey - may God walk with you all the way.
Harmony Hope
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'God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference.'
Posts: 645 | From: gentle rolling Oxfordshire countryside | Registered: Feb 2003
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harmony hope
Shipmate
# 4070
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Posted
For Jade Constable - how did your informal chat go?
For NiminyPiminy - hope the black-hole feeling is fading...
H Hope
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'God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference.'
Posts: 645 | From: gentle rolling Oxfordshire countryside | Registered: Feb 2003
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by harmony hope:
For Jade Constable - how did your informal chat go?
For NiminyPiminy - hope the black-hole feeling is fading...
H Hope
It went well thanks, got given a folder full of stuff to read and a dvd on pioneer ministry to watch (my response to that was 'no thanks' ). The DDO has spoken to my priest about it so we shall see.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Bagpuss
Magical saggy cloth cat
# 2925
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by harmony hope:
Thank you everyone - it means a lot to me to be held in prayer.
I have no idea how it can take as long to prepare selection papers the second time round as it did the first
Harmony Hope
When I went for the second time I just used what I had done the first time around and added some bits and tweaked some other.
I found the second time totally different to the first and enjoyed it more - I think I connected more with the selectors.
Good luck and lots of prayers
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harmony hope
Shipmate
# 4070
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Posted
Thanks Bagpuss for sharing your experience - it helps to know that someone else has done the same before me! Do you mind me asking - did you have a sense that it was going to be a 'yes' the second time round?
H Hope
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'God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference.'
Posts: 645 | From: gentle rolling Oxfordshire countryside | Registered: Feb 2003
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
I've got half way through my training and I'm thinking of withdrawing... ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
If I picked it up again later I'd have to start the whole process again. sigh.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
Good Grief, or rather Bad Grief.
I hope you don't give up. Is it the intensity? Your intensity? Have you a kindred spirit?
Keep off the intense debates here for a while. I would find it wearing, but maybe you find them stimulating.
"And here's five words of wisdom, 'never take a stranger's advice'"
(from Adam Carroll Stranger's Advice
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
Evensong - if this is mid course wobbles then it is probably healthy. The excitment of starting training which has been long anticipated and discerned will has worn off and the reality of finding a title post and completing all that academic work starts to kick in. This is normal.
Of course it may be more than that and I'm sure you have all the support in place in terms of tutors, mentors, cell group to talk this through.
Will pray anyway.
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I've got half way through my training and I'm thinking of withdrawing...
I did it. It was shit. Of those whom you expect to offer support as you make the transition back into the "real world", divide it by about 10 and that might be more accurate.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Niminypiminy
Shipmate
# 15489
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Posted
Halfway through is often a difficult patch in any process. Rather than withdrawing can you take some time out so that you can have a break? That's what I sometimes advise students to do when they are having a tough time. Get some time for yourself and if you can, find someone who is not invested in you either staying or going to talk to about how you feel. Talk to a tutor, too, if you can - because they will have dealt with wobbly people before.
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Lives of the Saints: songs by The Unequal Struggle
http://www.theunequalstruggle.com/
Posts: 776 | From: Edge of the Fens | Registered: Feb 2010
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Evensong....nothing profound to offer, except prayer. Prayer for peace, for resolving the niggles, for silence and space and good friends who can walk and laugh with you.
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
It's been par for the course for me, I've wanted to drop out half way through every time I've studied, finding it a particularly tough hurdle to jump over with 3-year courses. What got me over them was a combination of things: people rooting for me, not wanting to have wasted what I'd already done, and wanting to meet God's calling for me. I'm so thankful that I carried on.
Try to hang on in there, Evensong. Take a holiday if you can. You'll be in my prayers too.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
Thanks all for your support and encouragement. You're all very sweet.
I am going through a rough patch ( I think it's partially because I've been placed in a parish and I'm totally unsuited to parish ministry ) but I'm not doing anything rash. I'm sitting with it and praying hard for true discernment.
Would very much appreciate any of your prayers too.
For those of you that did discontinue, I'd love to hear why and what you ended up doing. If not here, perhaps in a PM?
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
Placements are supposed to challenge you and it sounds like it is doing just that.
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
For Catholics, the seminary completion rate is about 40%, so leaving is actually a very normal thing to do. The best reason is to leave is that you have more clarity about your vocation than when you entered and that clarity is that you're not called to the priesthood. A very honest reason to leave is that commitments are starting to loom and you still don't feel like you've gotten that 'final yes' from God. Another is that there's not enough time left in your formation program to work on everything you feel like should be worked on before ordination AND you think you can work on these things outside of formation.
All of this must be tempered with: we can never be 100% certain of anything; we're never 'ready' for priesthood; ordination is not the end of formation; cold feet are normal.
Leaving formation can be a God-filled choice if done for the right reasons, guided by prayer and conversation with your formators, friends and spiritual director. Time out can also be a good call. Remember to never make a big decision in desolation: seek the consolation.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Bagpuss
Magical saggy cloth cat
# 2925
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by harmony hope:
Thanks Bagpuss for sharing your experience - it helps to know that someone else has done the same before me! Do you mind me asking - did you have a sense that it was going to be a 'yes' the second time round?
H Hope
Both times I went with the expectation that this could be the end of the journey - I kind of took that attitude all the way through - but I did feel as though I connected with the selectors better the second time round and that I had sold myself better on the paperwork beforehand. First time they thought I was happy to stay being a Reader so I made sure I out in LOADS of stuff to counteract that!
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iamchristianhearmeroar
Shipmate
# 15483
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Posted
Hello shipmates,
Thanks to everyone for the contributions on this thread, I've found them really useful. I've been feeling the pull of God to do something more with my life (and for Him) for years now. For the last two and half years I've felt that the pull was towards some form of church-based ministry, either ordained or lay I wasn't sure. Recently I've felt that pull getting stronger and stronger towards ordained ministry in the Church of England. Last week I received some very strong external confirmation that this may be the direction God wants me to explore, so I've decided now might be the time to look into this seriously.
I have to admit I found some of the information on the CofE website pretty daunting - the full Criteria for Selection seem to suggest the CofE are looking for supermen and superwomen rather than mere mortals! For anyone who has been through the CofE (or a similar) discernment process, do the Criteria for Selection become less daunting when you discuss them with your DDO or do they remain terrifying?! This isn't to say this has put me off, but it's made me feel even more inadequate than I felt before even God...
My parish (in Southwark Diocese) is currently without an incumbent - we are hopefully getting a Priest in Charge from around the middle of next year I think. Does anyone know what this will mean for the official discernment process? We have a fantastic Senior Honorary Curate who I'll talk to about how I'm feeling (after the Christmas rush...), but do I need an incumbent or Priest in Charge before the diocese can get involved? I talked very briefly to our previous incumbent before he retired, but that was only in the last few weeks of his ministry with us, and my thoughts were still a bit scattered at the time.
We also already have two people from our parish in the discernment process - I assume there's no quota per parish, but are the diocese likely to worry that our smallish parish (~75 weekly communicants, 100 on the electoral roll) won't be able to support more candidates pastorally?
Although I was baptised and confirmed into the CofE and have attended CofE churches for most of my life (I'm 30 next month) I've only been attending our current church for under 18 months. Before that I was attending (on and off for 3 years) and in membership (for a couple of years) at a pretty liberal Baptist Church - my wife and her family are/were Baptists - where I was becoming increasingly involved in the leadership. To cut a long story short, that church imploded in a fairly major way just over two years ago and we took the very difficult decision to leave. We came across our current CofE church and have never really looked back - I don't think any of us would contemplate a return to a Baptist Church now and it is very much ministry in the Church of England that I feel drawn towards (many reasons: the sacraments, liturgy, Baptist obsession with penal substitution: I'm far too liberal for the Baptists really).
Are the diocese going to be worried about someone entering the discernment process who has been in their CofE parish for such a short time? I'm not in a tearing hurry to rush through things - I hope and pray that things will go at God's speed - but equally I feel I've probably dragged my feet on this already, and I feel I'm being nudged to do something now rather than drag my feet any longer!
Any thoughts/prayers gratefully received!
IACHMR
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My blog: http://alastairnewman.wordpress.com/
Posts: 642 | From: London, UK | Registered: Feb 2010
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
IACHMR, I had been in Peterborough diocese for less than two months when I officially got Put In The System! With me I chose to go with my uni diocese as opposed to my home diocese because I have a stronger connection to my church here than in my home diocese - I realise your situation is different but I imagine the DDO will be sympathetic.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Niminypiminy
Shipmate
# 15489
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Posted
IACHMR, you should be able to contact your vocations team/DDO without having talked to your incumbent first, and they will certainly be able to advise you on this in any case. Re pastoral support during the process, depending on your situation what you get may vary wildly. Since I talked to him 18 months ago (when he was very supportive) my parish priest has not mentioned the process once. Come to think of it he hasn't mentioned God once apart from in sermons, during that time. I don't think it's unusual for there to be several people going through the discernment process at once - I know of a church where there are 11!
It might be a good idea to see if you can meet with a spiritual director - your diocese should have someone co-ordination spiritual direction. Mine has been completely wonderful and a huge support as I go through the process, which is very testing, both mentally and spiritually.
for you as you seek to discern where God is calling you, and as you think about your next step.
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Lives of the Saints: songs by The Unequal Struggle
http://www.theunequalstruggle.com/
Posts: 776 | From: Edge of the Fens | Registered: Feb 2010
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aig
Shipmate
# 429
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Posted
I would second Niminypiminy on the need to have a spiritual director through the process. Your DDO may be wonderful, as mine was and is, but they are the person writing reports about you. Your spiritual director is completely outside the process and the person you can be totally honest with. They will also want to talk about God, which can be nice.
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That's not how we do it here.......
Posts: 464 | From: the middle bit at the bottom slightly to the right | Registered: Jun 2001
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