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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » All Saints   » Whom shall we send? The Vocations Thread (Page 30)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Whom shall we send? The Vocations Thread
Jante
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Just to clarify there isn't a school in the village of Cuddesdon- there are schools at Wheatley and at Garsington which children from Cuddesdon go to. Secondary school also at Wheatley. Cuddesdon is a lovely place to study if you have a family.

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Piglet
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*bump*

There's a Hostly Hoover in the offing, so I'll bump this thread in case it gets swept away.

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alto n a soprano who can read music

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moonfruit
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As you may or may not remember, I'm discerning a vocation to religious life. I've just got back from visiting the same community that I visited in February. It was lovely to spend a bit more time with the community, and get to know people a little bit. I certainly felt very much 'at home' there, and it looks like a definite possibility for the future - exciting times!

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All I know is that you came and made beauty from my mess.

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Doone
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Sounds exciting Moonfruit [Smile]
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iamchristianhearmeroar
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Grrrr. Trying to sort out a visit to a theological college that shall remain nameless. They ask you to arrive at 4pm on a weekday and then stay overnight to midday the following day (also a weekday). For someone in full time employment it is - to say the least - extremely inconvenient! Can it really be necessary to take two days' holiday to make a visit?!

Then I'm offered a date, say yes to it, start sorting out childcare and booking time off work only to be told...oops sorry we made a mistake and we're fully booked then. [Mad]

But I have found this throughout the discernment process to be honest. Trying to arrange my first meeting with a vocations advisor I was told I'd had an appointment made at 4pm on a weekday. Hmmm, how does that work with a full time job?!

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Piglet
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That is a pain, Iamchristian. I wonder if it's because (a) they're clergy and it doesn't occur to them that people might have work commitments during the week that can't be undone; or (b) they're testing your commitment - i.e. are you willing to give up a couple of days of holiday to meet them?

Hope it goes well when you finally get it sorted.

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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TomM
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In the case of the college, it may also be entirely a practical thing. Here, we have Saturday as a day off - and so there is nobody here. And really for someone to get the sense of whether this is the right place for them to train, they need to see the rhythm and routine of the place, which really needs an overnight stay during the week.

Sure, someone can come at the weekend, but it doesn't give a proper sense of what it might be like to train here.

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*Leon*
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I once went to a college open day with a very similar schedule (which I might guess is the same college) and I think TomM is broadly right - the timing is chosen to give you the best possible feel of the college atmosphere. Lots of people are away at weekends (especially doing placements at local churches) so the big service of the week is a Wednesday evensong. So you need to be there early evening on Wednesday. Staying overnight means you get to hang out in the bar with current students, and then you can experience an ordinary daily service in the form of morning prayer. Then everything else that needs to happen can fit around these events.

This does of course completely ignore the realities of life in the secular world, but you should be used to that by now in the discernment process. (Why does a BAP take 3 days when it really comprises 4 hours of assessment?)

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iamchristianhearmeroar
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Thanks all. I think this may be a different college from that mentioned by TomM and Leon as I'm not asked to arrive on a Wednesday. Who knows, perhaps schedules have changed!

I certainly don't mind taking some time off work during the course of the discernment process, but as Leon says I've already taken three days off for the BAP (running from late afternoon on day 1 to mid-afternoon day 3 - why not just have it over two days??), and now two days here make in total a week's holiday!

It's also not only me who will need to take holiday. So my wife and I can visit together (and see where we might be living for the next 3 years) my wife's parents have offered to take our (extremely disruptive) 3yo son whilst we're away. My wife's mum will need to take at least one day off work to do that.

I can totally understand the point about nothing going on in college over the weekend, but it doesn't make it easy for us! It's almost as if the whole system is set up to be easy for those not in regular employment and without small children, e.g. current undergraduates or recent graduates. The reality, of course, is that the vast majority of ordinands are not in that sort of position.

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My blog: http://alastairnewman.wordpress.com/

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TomM
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quote:
Originally posted by iamchristianhearmeroar:
Thanks all. I think this may be a different college from that mentioned by TomM and Leon as I'm not asked to arrive on a Wednesday. Who knows, perhaps schedules have changed!

I certainly don't mind taking some time off work during the course of the discernment process, but as Leon says I've already taken three days off for the BAP (running from late afternoon on day 1 to mid-afternoon day 3 - why not just have it over two days??), and now two days here make in total a week's holiday!

It's also not only me who will need to take holiday. So my wife and I can visit together (and see where we might be living for the next 3 years) my wife's parents have offered to take our (extremely disruptive) 3yo son whilst we're away. My wife's mum will need to take at least one day off work to do that.

I can totally understand the point about nothing going on in college over the weekend, but it doesn't make it easy for us! It's almost as if the whole system is set up to be easy for those not in regular employment and without small children, e.g. current undergraduates or recent graduates. The reality, of course, is that the vast majority of ordinands are not in that sort of position.

We may be talking about more than one college here as there is nothing particularly distinctive about Wednesdays here. Do PM if you want to see if there are notes to usefully compare.
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iamchristianhearmeroar
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Have PMd you!

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My blog: http://alastairnewman.wordpress.com/

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Rosa Gallica officinalis
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I managed to visit Cuddesdon from Sunday lunchtime til Monday teatime- which gave me enough time to know it was the right place for me, and only one day off work. I think I phoned and said I work full time, but have alternate Mondays off. They were very happy to be accommodating. Nearly everyone was at Sunday lunch, so that gave a good view of the breadth of the community, plenty of volunteers to show us around, take us for a walk, etc on Sunday afternoon. Experienced Sunday Compline, Monday morning prayer & daily Eucharist, lectures on Monday morning.

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Come for tea, come for tea, my people.

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iamchristianhearmeroar
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Well, I shall be visiting Cuddesdon tomorrow for an open day. It's more of a 'see the place' rather than 'see the place in action as a college' visit I think, and there will be quite a few of us prospective students there. I'm not being interviewed for a place.

Should I wave to anyone?!

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tessaB
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In January I have a three month placement with a neighbouring church. It is rather more evangelical then I am used to, a very successful church with a large leadership. My tutor thought I would be well-placed there as it would take me a bit out of my comfort zone but she felt I was 'robust' enough to deal with it. I am a little worried as I can be rather mouthy and keeping a lid on things for three months is going to be hard. Also, with such a large leadership team, I am concerned that I wont have anything to do. I appreciate that the placement is mainly for my development but I would like to feel useful.
Any advice would be much appreciated. How did others cope with their placements?

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tessaB
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iamchristianhearmeroar
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Hey tessa, I have an ordinand friend who was in a similar position with her placement. Do you want me to put you in touch? My placement was quite close to my tradition, so this wasn't so much of an issue.

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My blog: http://alastairnewman.wordpress.com/

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Evangeline
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I'm not exactly in your position Tessa but have tried to "survive" in conservative evangelical environments, including theological college which have views very different from mine.

As it's only for 3 months, my 2c is treat it as a learning exercise. Listen, learn participate and help where you can. I would caution against trying to stay silent entirely, you need to find a way I think to stand true and witness to your faith whilst recognising you're on their turf. I think if you try to stay entirely quiet, you get that fire shut up in your bones kind of thing and risk explosion, burnout and disillusionment-or maybe that's just me and a number of men and women I know who have tried to stay in Sydney Anglicanism... but I digress.

Finding somebody to debrief with who obviously isn't part of the church you're at but understands you and that type of environment would be really helpful. If not your supervisor then try to find a friend or someone from your home church or something.

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RainbowGirl
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Evangeline's given some great advice. I was in a similar position to you Tessa, only mine was eight months, two as a member of the congregation and six as an active participant in their ministry.

I struggled with not speaking up, it went completely against the grain to not vocally object to things that went against my own beliefs. There were times when I did, when I felt that there was a real and tangible risk to someone else. Otherwise I generally stayed quiet and listened. I learned a great deal and the placement was exactly what I needed. It gave me a breadth of knowledge and understanding that I wouldn't otherwise have gained.

Definitely find someone you can debrief with, but if possible find someone who is neutral. I made the mistake of often debriefing with someone who had the same negative attitude towards this church as I did when I started. She would try and egg me on to tell them exactly where they could stick it when they did something to upset me. Not the most beneficial thing when you are trying to learn tolerance and develop mutual understanding for those whose faith differs from your own.

Also, find a safe pace for yourself spiritually. If you think you are going to struggle with the churches approach to spirituality make sure you have access to a church, or services, or a priest who fulfils your own personal need for spiritual sustenance. For me I was lucky enough to have keys to the church that had always served as my own spiritual home base. I'd often stop there and pray or just sit quietly in the dark church when things got a bit too much.

I learned so much from my time at that church, and to be honest by the end I was very sad to leave. It challenged me in such new and unexpected ways and it made me a better person because of it.

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Pigwidgeon

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Just bumping this back to page 1 for Notapassingphase.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Notapassingphase
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Thanks Pigwidgeon

So I'll spare you all the long story (for now) and just ask if anyone knows
1. Are dissolved CPs treated the same as divorce for the purposes of faculty / BAP etc ? And
2. Do you need to go through the faculty thing for lay/ reader ministry? Or does that vary by Diocese? And if so, Southwark?

Thanks very much for any help you can give me. It's a bit theoretical at the moment so I don't want to ask directly. Thinking through options.

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Spike

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quote:
Originally posted by Notapassingphase:

2. Do you need to go through the faculty thing for lay/ reader ministry? Or does that vary by Diocese? And if so, Southwark?

In Southwark you would normally be expected to,attend one of the vocations days laid on by the diocese. You are then assigned to one of the diocesan Vocations Advisors who will meet with you over a number of months to discuss the various options open to you.

If you feel that Reader Ministry is your thing, then you'll meet with the Co-ordinator of Reader Selection & Training and then to a selection weekend.

If you need any more details, PM me

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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

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*Leon*
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I've never heard anyone mention faculties in the context of reader ministry (in Southwark) so I strongly suspect there's no issue. But as Spike says, you should check with your vocations advisor.

(I am certain that a local vocations adviser would be happy to answer questions like that even if you haven't been on a vocations day. The order of events Spike describes is different to what I recall (in that I think I went to a vocations adviser before going on a vocations day). But I know the system has changed in some way since my day and my memory might be hazy.) (Note for everyone else: All this stuff about Vocations days is Southward-specific. )

And I have no idea about 1). Again, a matter for the vocations adviser. Now you've asked the question I've got an intellectual interest in the answer (for reasons that can't be discussed in All Saints)

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Notapassingphase
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Thank you both. If and when I ever speak to a vocations adviser I'll report back on the answers.
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iamchristianhearmeroar
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I can confirm what Spike says about the start of the Vocations process in Southwark. In my case I had had several preliminary meetings with my vicar and the vicar of a neighbouring parish (who was also a Vocations Advisor) before attending a Vocations Forum as they call it.

There's no pressure to continue with anything further after the Vocations Forum and plenty of people do not. There can be quite a wait to get on a Vocations Forum as they tend to get booked up well in advance. I think you need your vicar's sponsorship to attend the Vocations Forum so if it is something you're interested in, at least one meeting with the vicar beforehand will probably be necessary.

As General Synod continues its discussions this afternoon please do join with me in praying for all LGBTI+ ordinands and LGBTI+ discerning their vocation to lay or ordained ministry.

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My blog: http://alastairnewman.wordpress.com/

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Doone
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[Votive]
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Pomona
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Bumping! I have applied for a pastoral assistant role in London (+Philip North's old patch) and would appreciate prayers please!

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Piglet
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All the best, Pomona. [Smile]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Doone
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Good luck Pomona [Votive]
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Welease Woderwick

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[Votive] ascending Pomona

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Pomona
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I've been shortlisted for an interview in a couple of weeks for the role, so that's encouraging news! Thanks for your prayers.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Piglet
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Excellent news, Pomona - good luck! [Smile]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Doone
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Pomona [Yipee]

[ 17. March 2017, 11:06: Message edited by: Doone ]

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Pomona
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The interview is on Monday and feeling quite nervous, though more nervous about having to get a very early train! I've booked myself a retreat with SLG at Fairacres after Easter for reflection and recuperation regardless of what happens.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Piglet
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Hope it goes well, Pomona. [Votive]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Doone
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Pomona [Votive]
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Pomona
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I didn't get a place with NLPA but the team rector has recommended applying with the Society of the Sacred Mission in Milton Keynes and St Peter's Vauxhall. Does anyone know anything about those places? I'm only getting dead links.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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BroJames
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quote:
Originally posted by Notapassingphase:
Thanks Pigwidgeon

So I'll spare you all the long story (for now) and just ask if anyone knows
1. Are dissolved CPs treated the same as divorce for the purposes of faculty / BAP etc ? And
2. Do you need to go through the faculty thing for lay/ reader ministry? Or does that vary by Diocese? And if so, Southwark?

Thanks very much for any help you can give me. It's a bit theoretical at the moment so I don't want to ask directly. Thinking through options.

1. To the best of my knowledge the answer to this question is no.
2. You don't need a faculty, if divorced, for Reader ministry. It's a national church thing, so Southwark wouldn't ask for it separately. I don't know what policy/ies the CofE/ dioceses operate around marriage/sexuality etc. for Readers.

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kingsfold

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I got as far as a page which says they're looking for pastoral assistants in SSM, Milton Keynes (here), but couldn't get any further. However the contact pages seem to be fine ....
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BroJames
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quote:
Originally posted by *Leon*:
<snip>This does of course completely ignore the realities of life in the secular world, but you should be used to that by now in the discernment process. (Why does a BAP take 3 days when it really comprises 4 hours of assessment?)

It's probably worth having a look at the publicly available Going to a Bishops’ Advisory Panel booklet to answer this.

Part of the evaluation of a person and their calling is in their interaction with other people, and this is formally observed in the Presentation and Group Discussion. The group consists of eight people* each of whom makes a presentation and chairs a discussion. This takes three and a half to four hours in total involving all the candidates for the whole time.

Each candidate also needs time to write a pastoral exercise, and the candidates all complete the Personal Inventory (which is completed on the first evening so that the advisers have time to evaluate at least the first two or three candidate's response before they interview whet the next day).

Then there are the three interviews, one with each of the three advisers, scheduled to allow the candidates time to do their pastoral exercise and have (a bit of) a break, and for the advisers to have a midway meeting to ensure all the areas are properly covered. (They have an initial overview meeting on the first evening, while the candidates are doing the Personal Inventory). The schedule is such that all the advisers are interviewing someone in every interview slot.

(* A full panel consists of two groups of eight candidates, two groups of three advisers and a panel secretary.)

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RainbowGirl
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# 18543

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Just checking in. I've just begun the application process for the discernment year in my diocese again. I'm waiting on the interview times to be set before the Merry-Go-Round begins again.

Anyone else have updates on where they are at?

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Laxton's Superba
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I'm still here, 7 years down the line...
Lovely to hear people's continuing stories of God's call.
Currently looking into commissioning as a Local (Lay) Minister.

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A Soprano Learning to Listen
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# 18772

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Hello all, I was sent over here by Pigwidgeon.

I've spent most of this afternoon reading this whole thread and I feel like I know you all a little!

Recently I've started to explore my calling to ordained ministry with my priest. It's the beginning of an exciting journey for sure! The next step is to speak to the area warden and see where that goes...

I was hoping that there may be a few people on the thread going through the beginnings of the process at this time ☺

Also, could I ask whether there was ever a particular event that made you start to listen to the nagging feeling that had been surpressed?

Thanks in advance

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Bishops Finger
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Welcome, Soprano!

A friend of mine (about twice your age) is exploring her possible vocation (she has a BAP this month). Given your references to DDOs and BAPs, I assume you're referring to the Church of England? If so, prepare to be very, very patient - the Mills of God grind no slowlier...

...but [Votive] [Votive] [Votive] nevertheless.

BTW, my own re-call to Reader ministry, after a 20-year spell 'out of the loop', came about as a result of my own tentative thoughts, and two conversations with two independent friends. That, together with a gracious and unconditional acceptance by my then Diocesan Bishop, clinched the matter. FWIW!

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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A Soprano Learning to Listen
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# 18772

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Welcome, Soprano!

A friend of mine (about twice your age) is exploring her possible vocation (she has a BAP this month). Given your references to DDOs and BAPs, I assume you're referring to the Church of England? If so, prepare to be very, very patient - the Mills of God grind no slowlier...

...but [Votive] [Votive] [Votive] nevertheless.

Yes Church of England ☺ I've read on this board and other blogs about trusting in His timing, and I'm sure that's something that is going to be tested! I would love it to be a nice speedy process... but then where would be the time to reflect and pray?!

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:

BTW, my own re-call to Reader ministry, after a 20-year spell 'out of the loop', came about as a result of my own tentative thoughts, and two conversations with two independent friends. That, together with a gracious and unconditional acceptance by my then Diocesan Bishop, clinched the matter. FWIW!

IJ

I find it very interesting and instructive to hear other people's stories, and a great sense of 'thank goodness it's not just me!'

My real kick to do something about the feelings I'd popped on the back burner was when a very close friend of mine (an atheist) said that I was the first person who had ever spoken to her about religion that had made sense and hadn't tried to force my ideas on her. This opened up a discussion and really made me feel very happy that I had been able to talk about the church and God in a way that didn't automatically shut down the conversation. Does that make sense?

[ 04. May 2017, 16:54: Message edited by: A Soprano Learning to Listen ]

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Bishops Finger
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Yes, it does - and if you can speak about God in a way that doesn't shut down the conversation straightaway, then you would appear (IMHO) to indeed have a vocation!

That may or may not be to the ordained priesthood, of course - that's up to the DDOs, BAPs etc. etc. (and the Holy Spirit, in there somewhere) to discern...

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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A Soprano Learning to Listen
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Thanks Bishops Finger ☺ I suppose the Holy Spirt features in there somewhere 😂 It will be interesting to see what lies ahead [Smile]
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tessaB
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# 8533

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So here I am nearly at the end of my three years training! Licensing due on the 24th June, God, the Bishop and my tutors willing! Happily the licensing will be in my own parish of Walton-on-Thames as there are two of us from the parish being licensed, and also the church is big enough to accommodate everyone.
I am really looking forward to it, while having a few moments of 'aargh!'. I would really appreciate prayers for the weeks leading up to it, that I can concentrate on what is happening and approach it in a prayerful and thankful attitude.

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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye

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A Soprano Learning to Listen
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# 18772

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[Votive] tessaB my prayers are with you in the lead up to this special time, may you be prepared, enriched and nurtured at this time and going forward into ministry.

[ 06. May 2017, 19:02: Message edited by: A Soprano Learning to Listen ]

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Piglet
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All the best, TessaB. [Votive]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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tessaB
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Aah, thanks guys!

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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424

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Holding you in the Light from here, too.

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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details

What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?

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