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Source: (consider it) Thread: Whom shall we send? The Vocations Thread
Ethne Alba
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First firm steps towards reader selection today.

Eeeeeks

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Boopy
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I have recently got through Reader selection and will be starting the training programme in September. Astonishing but very exciting. [Ultra confused] , [Eek!] , and [Big Grin] , in roughly equal measure. [Yipee]
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Ethne Alba
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well that was said far too soon

i'm back for full discernment

[ 17. June 2011, 12:18: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]

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whiterobe
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quote:
Originally posted by aig:
whiterobe
quote:
After a long time in the bilges I am seeing the Bishop in late Jul 11. Prayers needed pse
Does this mean you are seeing the bishop with a view to being sponsored for a BAP?

[Votive] and enjoy the experience; our bishop (different diocese) does a very nice prayer and blessing at the end of the interview!

[Duplicate deleted
Gwai, All Saints Host]

[ 17. June 2011, 21:47: Message edited by: Gwai ]

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"I used to have a bad memory; but I can't remember when!"

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Carys

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Having let the discernment process slide for a while, I emailed our current 'Warden of Ordinands'* last night. No response so far.

Carys

*This is the term the Vocations Wales Website uses.

[codefix]

[ 25. June 2011, 09:13: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise

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Ethne Alba
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hi, a faint question for those in the uk:

Once one has landed in the diocesan discernment process....how swiftly or sluggardly do matters proceed?
Or is it a mixed bag, depending on the diocese?

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Laxton's Superba
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It varies. I have been in it for a year now, seeing the DDO, filling in forms, writing essays, having long chats. DDO has been on holiday, I have only been able to meet at certain times, so it has been more drawn-out than I was expecting, but that is probably a good thing. He wants me to go to a BAP before the end of May next year which will be nearly 2 years from initial chat with parish priest, but it deends on your diocese and your personal circs, I guess.
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aig
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In my Diocese they give you a time line so you have some idea of the process. For me it was 15 mth from seeing the DDO to having a BAP. But my BAP was in November - so 2 years from DDO to starting training (which is average here), However, I then spoilt it by deferring for a year - so for me, 3 years.
I have to say it was only once the BAP said 'yes' that I was able to reflect on the whole vocation thing. The extra year has been a good year!

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Ethne Alba
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from where i am sitting ( one inch over the starting line!) "extra time" is looking like a great idea....

thanks you for feed back
[Smile]

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Laxton's Superba
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Been to the ordination as deacon of one of our congregation today. It was last year that I had my first definite sense of calling. To sit there and think "this could maybe be happening to me one day" was a hugely scary and yet amazing thought. It was a wonderful service, packed cathedral, lusty singing and a real sense of God's presence.

Thinking of any of our members who have been ordained this time round.

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birdsoftheair
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Hi Guys

I'm just popping in to join you on this thread. I have had a calling for several years but still don't know in what form (I'm nearly 50)

I'm doing a distance part time Theology degree with Aberdeen University (CLL see here if interested)
and have finally felt the need to become more involved in my local (struggling) Church of Scotland. Looking at their website for discerning a ministry scares me witless but I need to start somewhere. Actually going to the church is a start I know, but I would love to hear from you guys if this sounds fairly normal or am I just a bit [Help]

Thanks

Birds

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Rosa Gallica officinalis
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I was ordained priest on Saturday & celebrated my first mass on Sunday. [Yipee] Still amazed & anticipate returning to earth eventually [Yipee]

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Evensong
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quote:
Originally posted by birdsoftheair:
Hi Guys

I'm just popping in to join you on this thread. I have had a calling for several years but still don't know in what form (I'm nearly 50)

I'm doing a distance part time Theology degree with Aberdeen University (CLL see here if interested)
and have finally felt the need to become more involved in my local (struggling) Church of Scotland. Looking at their website for discerning a ministry scares me witless but I need to start somewhere. Actually going to the church is a start I know, but I would love to hear from you guys if this sounds fairly normal or am I just a bit [Help]

Thanks

Birds

Sounds normal Birds. [Smile] Getting involved in your local church is a definite good start.

quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Gallica officinalis:
I was ordained priest on Saturday & celebrated my first mass on Sunday. [Yipee] Still amazed & anticipate returning to earth eventually [Yipee]

Congratulations Rosa. What a high. [Big Grin] Got any photos?

[ 05. July 2011, 03:21: Message edited by: Evensong ]

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a theological scrapbook

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joan knox

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@ Birds - yay, go for it and don't let the 121 jargon blindside you, lol!! Have you been to the Enquirer's Conf. yet/ going to do Enquiry placement? Or still in the pre-Enq. thinking space? The Ministries Council 'hot-phrase' is 'reflective practice'... if you're not doing so already, why not take up keeping a journal as you sift through the thinking/ and the practical 'getting involved' bit in your home church?
Been through the process, loved it... [Smile]

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matthew_dixon
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
hi, a faint question for those in the uk:

Once one has landed in the diocesan discernment process....how swiftly or sluggardly do matters proceed?
Or is it a mixed bag, depending on the diocese?

It depends not just on the diocese but also on the person. For some people, the process can be scarily fast, for others, it can take many years. The thing is, don't get disheartened if it does take a long time - sometimes God isn't quite ready for you as soon as you think he should be!

Don't try and pin a timescale on things either - I tried doing that myself first time around, and they did put me forward when I expected... but wasn't ready for it.

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Evensong
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quote:
Originally posted by matthew_dixon:
The thing is, don't get disheartened if it does take a long time - sometimes God isn't quite ready for you as soon as you think he should be!

Or your particular church isn't ready for you.

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a theological scrapbook

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Ethne Alba
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....helpful posts, thank you

having waited ( my own choice) for quite a while....i've realised that i'm Quite Ok thankyouverymuch about the waiting continuing for a long time to come!

i'm now in no hurry at all.....

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Jengie jon

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Birds of the air

Picking up on what Joan Knox said, I wonder if this might be a place to start? Or if you did not want something theological then how about this. Gillie Bolton is good and has done quite a bit of work on therapeutic writing as well.

Jengie

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birdsoftheair
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Thank you all for your encouragement, links and messages.

The journal is a good idea, I do have one with one page written a couple of years ago!The books look very good Jengie, thanks and might help.

Church was much better than I expected last Sunday; last time I went I almost wept, but time and possibly God's grace has given me a new perspective. The minister isn't the easiest person to relate to and doesn't believe in lay ministry unless he is forced to use it when he is in another parish!

Guess I'll just wait and suggest a few things and see what happens [Smile]

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joan knox

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Birdsoftheair, another book I found fab. fab. fab. is this one
It's a keeper and I come back to it regularly... well worth having a wrestle with at some point, tho' maybe not right this minute [Smile]

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Jesus saves, Allah protects, Buddha enlightens, Cthulhu thinks you'll make a nice sandwich

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Jengie jon

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Birds of the Air

Ministers are unpredictable beasts when it comes to ordination. Some who are quite happy with Lay Leadership suddenly get up tight when someone is candidating; others who are unhappy with lay leadership will relax if the lay person is a candidate.

These may be a minority I would guess but they are substantial enough a minority to be noticeable.

Also watch out for grooming for minnistry, if a minister suspects you have a vocation, suddenly you can find yourself in positions of leadership that you did not expect. I suspect that the other can happen as well, that you suddenly find yourself out of leadership positions for much the same reason.

Jengie

[ 08. July 2011, 06:13: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]

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Evensong
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[Killing me] Jengie.

Strange but true methinks.

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birdsoftheair
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I totally agree with you Jengie, a good friend advised me to wait until this Minister had moved on but that could take years!

People (well 2 out of a congo of 7 not inc the choir) did ask my why I had come back; (I used to help with kids activities)so I just said it felt like the right time. Not sure they knew what I meant though. The concept of God or the Holy Spirit informing my decision making is a bit alien to them. [Frown]

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joan knox

Knoxy is my homeboy
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Birdsoftheair - is it possible to visit other parish churches nearby, if you haven't done so already?
Always useful to see how other folk 'do' church, even within the same denomination. And perhaps, if poss., it may be useful to spend a little time in one of them and see how that fits [or doesn't, and why!] - and get you thinking on differences in practice and theology? [unless geography is a problem re. distances, etc]

Also, I may be misinterpreting you up wrongly here, so if I do, disregard this next: while it's great to have your minister on board/ supportive... it is not an essential as it is for the Piskies - ours is quite a different understanding of ministry. You are not dependant upon your minister's approval or otherwise, if there's a calling and you go through the processes outlined by 121, that calling gets tested beyond just the local sphere.
I guess what I'm saying is, don't let what might be an awkward relationship with your minister necessarily hold you back from exploring. And... anyone can go to an Enquirer's Conference without necessarily signing their life away [Smile]

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Jesus saves, Allah protects, Buddha enlightens, Cthulhu thinks you'll make a nice sandwich

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birdsoftheair
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Thank you joan knox.
I have done a bit of on line research and realised that it is very different in the COS to the COE.


I shall just have to stop being a big girls blouse and take the first steps!

Fortunately Mr B is up for it, as we live on one of many islands, any placements etc will be away from home (if it gets that far.)

birds

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joan knox

Knoxy is my homeboy
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quote:
Originally posted by birdsoftheair:
Thank you joan knox.
I have done a bit of on line research and realised that it is very different in the COS to the COE.


I shall just have to stop being a big girls blouse and take the first steps!

Fortunately Mr B is up for it, as we live on one of many islands, any placements etc will be away from home (if it gets that far.)

birds

...and if it happens to be 'one of many islands' in the west, contained within a couple of the 'we haven't discerned any women with any giftings for ministry/ eldership' women-free presbyteries... I hope that won't present a problem either!

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Jesus saves, Allah protects, Buddha enlightens, Cthulhu thinks you'll make a nice sandwich

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Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
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I think she is slightly further North than that. Piglet seems to know quite a bit about the area.

Jengie

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joan knox

Knoxy is my homeboy
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excellent - thanks Jengie

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Jesus saves, Allah protects, Buddha enlightens, Cthulhu thinks you'll make a nice sandwich

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aig
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I will give another plug for 'Under the Unpredictable Plant', which I read this weekend on retreat at Alton Abbey. A friend defines me as 'a charismatic catholic' (of the C of E variety) and most of the themes are familiar. But the author is coming from a very different angle, is immensely readable, and uses the story of Jonah in a memorable way.
I think it is really good.

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That's not how we do it here.......

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birdsoftheair
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Thank you all for your kind suggestions.
For all those wondering, I live here
though I moved from this place.

God certainly has a sense of humour as I found out today that the presbytery may be moving ministers about to cover shortages on the mainland, so things will change here soon even though I thought they wouldn't for years. How it will affect my Kirk though is hard to say, except that I think lay ministry will become even more important.

I am seriously looking to go to the next Enquirers Conference and will wait to see what comes from that.


[url corrected]

[ 18. July 2011, 03:27: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]

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Jenn.
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That sounds like a god plan, Birds. I went on a vocations weekend 2 years ago and it really helped to have the space and guidance as I tried to listen to God about all of this.

I've just finished the first draft of my BAP registration form and notes for my written reflection. Next step is to redraft it later this week and then go on holiday [Smile] I think the holiday will be well needed - I'm finding these forms very difficult. I'm a perfectionist and that is NOT good for this sort of thing.

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joan knox

Knoxy is my homeboy
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quote:
Originally posted by Jenn.:
That sounds like a god plan, Birds. I went on a vocations weekend 2 years ago and it really helped to have the space and guidance as I tried to listen to God about all of this.

I've just finished the first draft of my BAP registration form and notes for my written reflection. Next step is to redraft it later this week and then go on holiday [Smile] I think the holiday will be well needed - I'm finding these forms very difficult. I'm a perfectionist and that is NOT good for this sort of thing.

I've just finished my last bit of paperwork for Church of Scotland for a wee while... in it I noted I was learning to overcome the 'paralysis of perfectionism'!! Perfectionists and forms very much do NOT go together, I agree [Smile]

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Laxton's Superba
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My DDO has organised a placement for me at a mega-church of quite the opposite churchmanship to mine, so that should be interesting..... he has also asked me to read "The Shack", has anyone else read it? Getting along the road now, things seem to be swimming a bit less treacly.
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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Laxton's Superba:
My DDO has organised a placement for me at a mega-church of quite the opposite churchmanship to mine, so that should be interesting..... he has also asked me to read "The Shack", has anyone else read it? Getting along the road now, things seem to be swimming a bit less treacly.

The Shack is a good read. Although evos love it, there is a lot that is quite orthodox and acceptable to mainstream Christians.

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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Evensong
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I enjoyed The Shack. Worth reading. And I'm a liberal evangelical. [Big Grin]

Just beware of heretical Trinitarian theology. I believe this has been the greatest criticism of the book.

Read it a while ago but I think the author strays to Modalism.

But anyone writing about the Trinity will naturally fall into heresy; it's an impossible doctrine.

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
...Although evos love it, there is a lot that is quite orthodox and acceptable to mainstream Christians.

Leo, I'm not an evangelical by any manner or means but the suggestion that evangelicals are not mainstream Christians is, I think, not only pretty darned offensive to an awful lot of Christians but also not the sort of snarky stuff we need on this thread, nor, indeed, anywhere in All Saints.

WW
All Saints Host.

[ 22. July 2011, 11:46: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]

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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Just beware of heretical Trinitarian theology. I believe this has been the greatest criticism of the book.

Read it a while ago but I think the author strays to Modalism.

No it doesn't - it explicitly challenges modalism: "We are not three gods, and we are not talking about one god with three attitudes, like a man who is a husband, father, and worker. I am one God and I am three persons, and each of the three is fully and entirely the one." (p. 101)

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Evensong
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Not Modalism then? Maybe Docetism. Can't remember.
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leo
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The Lutheran Witness review : 'Young’s extremely human yet wholly divine Jesus may not sit well with modern-day Docetists who at times tend to regard our incarnate Brother-Savior Lord as being almost embarrassingly overly human (e.g., would the real Jesus drop a dish of food and then even laugh about His seeming clumsiness?).' here
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3rdFooter
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quote:
Originally posted by Laxton's Superba:
My DDO has organised a placement for me at a mega-church of quite the opposite churchmanship to mine, so that should be interesting.....

This can be a wonderful and eye-opening experience. It can also be a fairly exposed and lonely time. Go preparing to get involved as much as they will allow. (Can be easier in liturgical churches were there a more 'minor' jobs to do). You may well find it hard to worship as you are used. It may be worth attending a service elsewhere in the week that is more your sending tradition. Avoid debates about the merits of your tradition and theirs - when you are the only representative of charismatic-conservative-orthodoxy you will feel particularly isolated.

3F

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3F - Shunter in the sidings of God's Kingdom

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Masha
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Hello all,

Good to see that people are progressing nicely through mountains of paperwork! I remember it well...

I've just done something rash, or not. I've made contact with a community and I'm speaking to a Sister next week (I think). I'm also considering another to compare/contrast.

Blessings to all as we continue to work out where we're going and what we're doing whilst we get there.


Masha

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aig
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Masha [Votive] For your meeting.

I have just received a mega email from my college re starting in September. This is more disturbing than I expected.

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That's not how we do it here.......

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Joan_of_Quark

Anchoress of St Expedite
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The same thing just happened to me, aig, and it made me think of the parody of "Here I am Lord" - "No, not me, Lord, I am hiding underneath the bed..."

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"I want to be an artist when I grow up." "Well you can't do both!"
further quarkiness

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Masha
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'...it's too hard Lord, I'm too scared Lord. Won't you please find someone else instead?!'

Couldn't resist. Sorry.

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birdsoftheair
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Hi Masha et al,

I think we share more than just an avatar!
I know what I need to do but can I summon up the courage to do it? Hiding under the bed sounds good to me. [Big Grin] Trouble is God can still see me. sigh........

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Masha
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Indeed birdsoftheair He even finds you if you try to hide in church! By the way I have noticed you have excellent taste in avatars!

Things seem to be moving for me - not sure whether I'm pleased or terrified. I'm in the process of setting up dates to visit two convents, both communities have been very open about talking to me and helping me to discern if I should join them. the Sister I spoke to was lovely, and so honest about the problems of Religious Life. Good to know they tell you the downsides from the outset!

I was having real problems setting up dates due to having told someone I'd work every Saturday morning, then I got a phonecall saying that I'm not needed every Sat which freed up time for visiting ( I hope, unless another call is in the pipeline).

[ 28. July 2011, 16:43: Message edited by: Masha ]

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jacobsen

seeker
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Just beware of heretical Trinitarian theology. <snip>

"We are not three gods, and we are not talking about one god with three attitudes, like a man who is a husband, father, and worker. I am one God and I am three persons, and each of the three is fully and entirely the one." (p. 101)
Does anyone understand this? I've always taken comfort from the notion that it is a mystery, which we accept as far as we can, but cannot hope to comprehend.

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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

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birdsoftheair
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Not one bit jacobsen and I have done: Christology and the Early Church and Criticism and Defence of Christianity at first year degree level, all of which spend an inordinate amout of time on the Trinitarian heresies.

I just accept it and don't worry too much how it works. As you say it is a mystery, much as the Dawkins contingent say that is a cop out. Why would we want a God without a sense of any mystery?

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Evensong
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A beauty of a post from justlooking on a purg thread.

quote:
Originally posted by justlooking:
I'm not sure of the source of this prayer, I think it may be Methodist, but it crops up quite a bit:


'We are not ordaining you to ministry; that happened at your baptism. We are not ordaining you to serve the Church in committees, activities, organisation; that is already implied in your membership. We are not ordaining you to become involved in social issues, in ecology, race, politics, and the search for justice and peace; for that is laid on every Christian.

We are ordaining you to something smaller and less spectacular; to read and interpret those sacred stories of our community, so that they speak a word to people today; to remember and practice those rituals of meaning that address people at the level where change takes place; to foster in community, through word and sacrament, that encounter with truth which will set people free to minister as the Body of Christ.

We are ordaining you to the ministry of the word and sacraments and pastoral care.

God grant you grace not to betray but uphold it, not to deny but to affirm it, through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Amen....'



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a theological scrapbook

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Derf
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It is indeed Methodist, I think from the Methodist church in Singapore but I may be wrong. Seasick will probably know. Either way it's very powerful.
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