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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Whom shall we send? The Vocations Thread
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Bagpuss
Magical saggy cloth cat
# 2925
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Posted
Fantastic news Jenn xx
Posts: 473 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
So pleased Jenn! God be praised! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Laxton's Superba
Shipmate
# 228
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Posted
Just bumping this before it falls off the first page.
Jenn, have you had any feedback from the BAP, and/or thoughts about training?
Posts: 187 | From: I wish I knew | Registered: May 2001
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Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239
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Posted
I received my report from the bishop on monday, which was very helpful in knowing where they noticed weaknesses and strengths. Very humbling. I'm looking at residential training, so will be visiting a couple of places in the coming months.
I've been contacted by a couple of people who were on bap with me and found out what happened to them. It's very odd. you spend 3 intense days with people but all you see that they are actually assessed on it the presentation/discussion = 1 morning. The decisions I know of weren't all what I had expected - keep having to remind myself how little i know!
Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003
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aig
Shipmate
# 429
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Posted
Looking at colleges is exciting!
Are you willing to divulge which ones or will we have to guess if it is you when candidates visit?
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That's not how we do it here.......
Posts: 464 | From: the middle bit at the bottom slightly to the right | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239
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Posted
probably nottingham and bristol based on ddo's advice.
Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003
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aig
Shipmate
# 429
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Posted
I don't know much about either of these colleges so had a look at their websites. I then looked at some other college websites. I came to the conclusion that some are much better than others in terms of giving accurate information for ordinands. I have a clear favourite - does anyone else have an opinion on this?
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That's not how we do it here.......
Posts: 464 | From: the middle bit at the bottom slightly to the right | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
I looked at 4 colleges when trying to discern which I was most suited to. I foudn all their websites fairly accurate but it was the visit and the strong sense of rightness then that I went with. Oh and my Bishops reccomendation!
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Niminypiminy
Shipmate
# 15489
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Posted
It's taken me ages to pluck up the courage to post on this thread!
I'm stuck in the discernment process -- not because of my doubts but because it just seems to have taken so long! It's six months now and I have yet to see the DDO (have seen a vocations adviser 3 times).
I keep telling myself that it's God's time, not my time, but I feel so stuck -- I can't move forward or backwards, and I'm not even officially in the selection process.
What were other people's experiences of this part of discernment/selection? Is it normal to take so long? I feel a bit, how long, O Lord, at the moment.
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Lives of the Saints: songs by The Unequal Struggle
http://www.theunequalstruggle.com/
Posts: 776 | From: Edge of the Fens | Registered: Feb 2010
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St Everild
Shipmate
# 3626
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Posted
It took me several years to go to an advisory panel. It seemed like forever at the time, but with the wisdom of hindsight it was the right length of time.
Posts: 1782 | From: Bethnei | Registered: Dec 2002
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
You probably won't want to hear this but my journey from first approaching my Vicar to going for BAP was 6years and I know mine wasn't the longest journey. the discernment process is a long one but with reason and though it seems like you are in limbo, the very rpocess changes you and helps prepare you for the future.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
If you want to chat in more dpeth about the process PM me.
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by aig:
I don't know much about either of these colleges so had a look at their websites. I then looked at some other college websites. I came to the conclusion that some are much better than others in terms of giving accurate information for ordinands. I have a clear favourite - does anyone else have an opinion on this?
I didn't go to either of these colleges - but first time round at selection, I checked them out. I liked them both - but St John's had the edge for me, definitely. I had a great interview with the Principal and VP (they're different now, of course) and I liked the amenities and what I could see of the worship life. I hear good reports of it still and believe it has a great reputation.
Which I'm sure Bristol does, too! But at the time, I would've plumped for St John's.
I ended up somewhere different because when I next approached selection, things had moved on for me and Queen's in Birmingham was much more the place for me to be.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
hello Niminypiminy .....from someone else sitting and admiring the view from discernment mountain ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
It does get a tad difficult after a while doesn't it?
Finding out what each step of the process was actually for....and why each specific delay was in place ... helped. It involved a bit of digging around, but there is lots of information out there... in the public domain.
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Niminypiminy
Shipmate
# 15489
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Posted
<waves from neighbouring peak>
I've done a bit of reading about the process, and I'll try and dig around a bit more. But why does it have to be so, if not exactly opaque, then translucent?
I think it's the sense of stuckness that is getting to me. I know time has to pass, but it is the feeling that I can't make plans into the future that is starting to become hard. My work want me to commit to organising things and teaching courses for the next couple of years, and it feels like, I don't know, I'm performing a commitment to be there that I don't entirely have.
It's good to know, though, that in retrospect the process did take the its own time, and that it wasn't too long.
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Lives of the Saints: songs by The Unequal Struggle
http://www.theunequalstruggle.com/
Posts: 776 | From: Edge of the Fens | Registered: Feb 2010
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Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239
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Posted
I hated the pauses in the process. Once I got to the ddo things started to make more sense. He set out a vague timetable for me (if all goes well you'll be looking at college in 20xx) and that really helped. I got very frustrated when I had to take a break to have my son, but at least there was a proper reason for that. Prayers as you wait
Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
A would be cleric wonders why a system of discernment run by clergy is about as clear as mud.
Well when the Good Lord takes it into his head to call a few more people to the ministry who are gifted with:
- adminstrative skills
- the realisation that not everything runs on church time
- an ability to communicate in clear English
We might actually get some thing more clear. However for some reason he seems to prefer people with pastoral skills, theological ones, the prayerful ones, the mission orientated ones or even people who like leading worship.
I think I am glad he does, but it ain't going to make discernment any easier in the short term.
I have known a cleric who was absolutely superb at doing the administration that came with a training role and I suspect would be the same if managing a discernment process but in my experience he is the exception to the rule.
Nobody goes into the ministry thinking I want to be a DDO or similar. It is a role they end up with, and while they may really enjoy working with those discerning, they normally don't enjoy dealing with the admin and are therefore unlikely to take on the extra that would keep everyone in the loop.
Jengie
[ 28. November 2011, 21:38: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
<waves from neighbouring peak>
I've done a bit of reading about the process, and I'll try and dig around a bit more. But why does it have to be so, if not exactly opaque, then translucent?
I think it's the sense of stuckness that is getting to me. I know time has to pass, but it is the feeling that I can't make plans into the future that is starting to become hard.
I'm sorry. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) But on the bright side (yeah, right!) this is very much what it is like when you're out there doing ministry. A sense of being stuck with regard to one (or two, or three) situations, a frustration because you have NO idea what is supposed to happen next or how to make it happen, and a sense that if you plan for the future, you're basically dreaming, because life is bound to take a sharp left turn any minute now.
You get used to it.
If you're perverted enough, you may even get to liking it, once you give up trying to control your environment and just ride the wave you're on as best you can with the help of God. But it's darn hard.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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joan knox
Knoxy is my homeboy
# 16100
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Posted
Our [CofS] system is very different, and a little more straightforward, it would seem.
Go to Enquiry Conference, c. April-May-June.
If you decide to go for Ministry of Word and Sac., apply to be put on Enquiry placement, starting October.
A month to decide whether it's the right thing or not.
If not, withdraw, if yes, continue placement on assessed basis until May when you have Local Review: an hour with a national assessor, someone from presbytery, your assessing placement minister, and a rep. from Ministries Council.
If they say no, it depends on the kind of no as to whether or not you can try again - you get 3 attempts [no, we're not quite sure - there might be a call and we need more time to see evidence of this... come back after a year/ or - no, really, just nooooo].
If it's a yes, that yes is an agreement to let you proceed to the Assessment Conference c.May-June: afternoon/overnight/leave after lunch next day - full of interviews, psych tests, team work exercises, etc.
Having gone through the Assessment Conf. again the possibility of several types of 'no'.
But, if you get a yes, you can then proceed to training... off to University for the B.D. in Sept. and further placements and conferences.
Basically, it's possible to go through our discernment process and have your answer in c. 15 months. And you see anything and everything that has been written about you. And you get a written timetable - so you know when you need to do things/ when stuff is going to happen. No surprises, no cats out of bags.
What I found most helpful when in discernment process: I loved the practical placement - gave me a sort of on the job insight into what it might be like to do this minister thang, with a wise minister/ mentor who met with me fortnightly for supervision. Fab.
This is in no way a 'ours is better'n yours' post... it's just feeding another denominational process into the thread.
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Jesus saves, Allah protects, Buddha enlightens, Cthulhu thinks you'll make a nice sandwich
Posts: 906 | From: edinburgh | Registered: Dec 2010
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Niminypiminy
Shipmate
# 15489
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Posted
Thank you to all for your wise and encouraging words. I am sure that Jengie Jon is absolutely right about being a DDO, and her post made me see a slightly nightmarish alternative-world church full of people who love doing admin. (Mind you, I speak as an admin hater.)
I guess the only thing to do is to be in the stuck moment and to see the waiting as a kind of spiritual discipline, and to trust that, however frustrating and labyrinthine it feels, God is here too.
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Lives of the Saints: songs by The Unequal Struggle
http://www.theunequalstruggle.com/
Posts: 776 | From: Edge of the Fens | Registered: Feb 2010
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
I guess the only thing to do is to be in the stuck moment and to see the waiting as a kind of spiritual discipline, and to trust that, however frustrating and labyrinthine it feels, God is here too.
If you can see it that way you are well on your way!!!! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Nobody goes into the ministry thinking I want to be a DDO or similar. It is a role they end up with, and while they may really enjoy working with those discerning, they normally don't enjoy dealing with the admin and are therefore unlikely to take on the extra that would keep everyone in the loop.
Maybe I'm weird, or maybe its because I think I learned so much from my own discernemnt process but I would actually like to be involved as a DDO or Vocational advisor sometime in the future! ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Jante
[ 29. November 2011, 11:40: Message edited by: Jante ]
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Niminypiminy--I've pm'd you.
Jante--I'm amused by your location. When I was there we just called it 'Hogwarts.' With no added 'Holy.'
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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matthew_dixon
Shipmate
# 12278
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Posted
Just realised I've not posted in here recently. Things have just suddenly gone SO fast that I've been struggling to tell those who needed to know - and only once I'd done that was I prepared to announce it to "the world" so to speak on the internet.
Anyway, yes, I've got a diocesan selection panel meeting in a couple of hours (yes I know that makes it 8:30pm!)
I think I'm in a far more mature place than I was first time I went to one - 2.5 years ago - so it's really a case of making sure they can clearly see where God is calling me to, and seeing if they think it's the same place that I think it is.
Posts: 321 | From: Cardiff | Registered: Jan 2007
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Laxton's Superba
Shipmate
# 228
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Posted
Matthew! I was wondering how things were going for you. Hope the panel meeting goes well, and look forward to hearing about how things have progressed for you.
Posts: 187 | From: I wish I knew | Registered: May 2001
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harmony hope
Shipmate
# 4070
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Posted
May God go with you Matthew.
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'God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference.'
Posts: 645 | From: gentle rolling Oxfordshire countryside | Registered: Feb 2003
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matthew_dixon
Shipmate
# 12278
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Posted
Last time I went to a board, I came out thinking "That went okay, they're bound to say yes"... and they said no.
This time I've left the board meeting thinking that I didn't do well at all! Now potentially part of that is that I've got more awareness now of what is needed, but basically pretty much nothing I'd been preparing for came up, and they seemed to focus very heavily on some of the leadership aspects of the role and questions on the theme of "How would you deal with someone when you'd made a decision that they didn't agree with?"
So, either I'm far more right for it than previously because I'm actually aware of my shortcomings and was expecting a higher standard from myself than previous... or it is what it is on face value which is probably not a great result.
Should find out in a couple of days.
Posts: 321 | From: Cardiff | Registered: Jan 2007
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Hope all goes well with you, Matthew.
You definitely have something to offer the church - hope the understanding of what, and when, and where, gets worked out to your - and their - satisfaction.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
Prayers for you, Matthew. You can never really prepare in advance for these things, so try not to worry about that. Let us know.
Posts: 1637 | From: North Wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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matthew_dixon
Shipmate
# 12278
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Posted
Well, the decision went as expected - a no. However what I didn't expect was the reason.
I was expecting either of two reasons:
1) I messed up the interview - which would have been really really frustrating.
2) I failed to show a clear ability in the leadership criteria - which is something I am sure I could develop.
What they actually said, and this was a universal opinion across the board, was that they were unable to detect an imaginative flair. Now, if someone had told me 5 years ago that I needed an imaginative flair to go forward for selection, I would have been able to tell them that it was something that I didn't have and was unlikely ever to have. Their reason for turning me down was 100% accurate (though I do want to discuss in feedback the reason WHY I was turned down for that reason).
So, it's somewhat of a case of back to the drawing board at present - as it appears I am pretty much there with all of the other things needed, I just really really don't have much imagination at all!
Posts: 321 | From: Cardiff | Registered: Jan 2007
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Laxton's Superba
Shipmate
# 228
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Posted
Oh Matthew..... well, that's a bit of a strange reason. I hope that you are managing it and I'm sure other opportunities will be just around the corner.
for you
Posts: 187 | From: I wish I knew | Registered: May 2001
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harmony hope
Shipmate
# 4070
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Posted
Thinking of you Matthew.
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'God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference.'
Posts: 645 | From: gentle rolling Oxfordshire countryside | Registered: Feb 2003
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
(Without going into too many details quite why:) Oh what I would give for a curate at our place without imaginative flair....
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Stuff'em, Matthew. They do seem make bit of a habit of moving the goalposts.
As you know, a few years ago I went through the same experience (indeed, at the same board as your previous presentation) and was also turned down for reasons which I thought were accurate but whose relevance I doubted. I was furious about it for about a day, and then woke up on the next day but one and thought:
'(i) I don't have to endure a provincial selection conference;
(ii)I don't have to spend two or three years with some of those drippy types who you encounter at theological colleges; and
(iii)I don't have to go and be a curate in Merthyr.
(iv) Looking at it like that, what's not to like?'
I've never looked back!
[ 03. December 2011, 20:33: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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harmony hope
Shipmate
# 4070
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Posted
Matthew - I think that to put yourself forward for selection is tremendously brave and hope that you are okay.
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'God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference.'
Posts: 645 | From: gentle rolling Oxfordshire countryside | Registered: Feb 2003
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Zappa,
casting your mind back twenty four years, are you able to say what it was that tipped you over into Doing Something About going forward for ordination?
Was it arm up the back and frog marched to theological college? Your wonderings? Others suggestions?
Just interested to see how folk get to where they are ....and part of this process for us is listening to others story.
If you didn't mind?
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
It seemed to make sense of my life and gifts. I was Uni at the time, third year, and lots of people had been telling me for a couple of years or more that's what I should do - I had been (loosely) planning to be a secondary school teacher.
So I began the exploratory process ... one step at a time, interview after interview. Eventually I was accepted by the bishop, though I later resigned and started all over again when I moved to Australia.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Macrina
Shipmate
# 8807
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Posted
So today I managed a very awkward request to my Vicar to arrange a conversation to talk about life the universe and everything.
This is a big step. Thinking of y'all else making big steps.
Posts: 535 | From: Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: Nov 2004
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
Good luck to you Macrina.
I've just finished my first year of formation. I'm knackered.
Yet I was told three or four days ago I have to prepare an exegesis on Mark 1:1-8 and will be questioned on it.
*sigh*.
Got two days to do it.
*double sigh*
I hate interviews.
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Macrina....that first step is the worst one. All better once That one is out of the way.
Will be prayin'............
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239
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Posted
Planning a visit to Cranmer - any shippies there?
Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003
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Laxton's Superba
Shipmate
# 228
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Posted
I've got 2 appointments with diocesan vocations assessors lined up for the first week of January.
If they like the cut of my jib, I'm off to the Bishop and then to a BAP. 18 months on the path so far.....
Posts: 187 | From: I wish I knew | Registered: May 2001
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aig
Shipmate
# 429
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Posted
I hope all goes well with the meetings.
If it does - when will you go to a BAP?
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That's not how we do it here.......
Posts: 464 | From: the middle bit at the bottom slightly to the right | Registered: Jun 2001
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Laxton's Superba
Shipmate
# 228
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Posted
Gosh, I don't know. I would rather get it over with ASAP but certainly before the cut-off for starting training this September, which is the end of May I believe. Can't imagine myself BAP-ing!!!
Posts: 187 | From: I wish I knew | Registered: May 2001
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aig
Shipmate
# 429
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Posted
Once you get to the stage of your Bishop agreeing to sponsor you - the process speeds up unbelievably. Blink and you will have started training!
That is why I deferred.....
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That's not how we do it here.......
Posts: 464 | From: the middle bit at the bottom slightly to the right | Registered: Jun 2001
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
And once you have started training it is only a few short moments until it is time to find a curacy.....
I think I went public on an earlier incarnation of this thread about going to a BAP back 2008. My time at college has flown by and now after some months of uncertainty I have been offered a title post . 2012 will be full of packing up a house we have lived in for 20 years to move to the curate's house
Time flies but the wait from BAP to letter from the diocese felt like years. Odd that.
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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aig
Shipmate
# 429
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Posted
For all those who this year feel the Holy spirit prodding, poking or driving them to ordained ministry.
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That's not how we do it here.......
Posts: 464 | From: the middle bit at the bottom slightly to the right | Registered: Jun 2001
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