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Source: (consider it) Thread: A Truth Universally Acknowledged...
Hazey*Jane

Ship's Biscuit Crumbs
# 8754

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Just thought I'd revive a thread for those Shipmates in the process of searching for or trying to develop a relationship. Or, as Badger Lady put it so well in the previous thread, 'For those struggling with the beginning, middle, end, or lack of a relationship.'

So, how's everyone doing? (Assuming you haven't all graduated to the getting hitched thread since we last chatted [Biased] )

[ 15. February 2013, 01:40: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]

Posts: 4255 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Badger Lady
Shipmate
# 13453

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Hello Hazey Jane and thanks for restarting the thread.

Rather ironically, since I started the previous thread, I have graduated to the 'getting hitched' thread.[*] Badger Gent proposed about a month ago and we're tying the knot in August 2013


[*] Or rather, if I could find the 'Marriages and CP's [Yipee] ' thread (as I think it was called) I would graduate to it. It seems to have slipped off the board.

Posts: 340 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424

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quote:
Originally posted by Badger Lady:
...[*] Or rather, if I could find the 'Marriages and CP's [Yipee] ' thread (as I think it was called) I would graduate to it. It seems to have slipped off the board.

Feel free to start a new one for 2012 - we usually have a new one each year.

--------------------
I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details

What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?

Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hazey*Jane

Ship's Biscuit Crumbs
# 8754

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quote:
Originally posted by Badger Lady:
Rather ironically, since I started the previous thread, I have graduated to the 'getting hitched' thread.[*] Badger Gent proposed about a month ago and we're tying the knot in August 2013

That's lovely news in itself, and also in the context of you having started the previous thread. Congratulations. [Smile]

Given that no-one else seems to want this thread, perhaps some kind host could close it - feels a bit lame starting a thread on singleness and ending up by myself! [Paranoid]

Posts: 4255 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Scots lass
Shipmate
# 2699

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Hazey*Jane, it's not that you're on your own - it's more what to say! I got over last year's mess eventually and the current crush has its own problems, but not necessarily ones that need specific support. For the most part, I muddle through being single and in my early 30s - it's really only when crisis hits that the value of a thread like this comes to the fore!
Posts: 859 | From: the diaspora | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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youre definitely not alone, Hazey Jane. I also just don't know what to say. I could say a lot and it would mostly come out as self-pity. I try to suck it up and not sweat it. easier said than done. I feel a bit like: meanwhile, since I have no good prospects, I'm trying to have a life and not think about it too much. if Mister Wonderful appears, great! but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[ 07. May 2012, 04:29: Message edited by: comet ]

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17022 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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I confess I've kinda been hoping for this thread to reappear, because hearing about the trials, tribulations, and triumphs of other Shipmates gives me comfort on my own wobbly journey.

I did the online dating thing for a good while (though it wasn't, exactly, good...) and have one residual meeting from that in my near future, I think. In three dimensions, though, things are more interesting. And good. And scary.

For the past several months, I've been strongly connecting with a friend whom I've always considered rather attractive. We're not officially dating, and we may never get there (other person's just as anxious about this stuff as I am, and both of us keep a pretty close lid on our feelings), but there's potential. We'll see what shakes out, I guess.

Best wishes to us all!

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Hazey*Jane

Ship's Biscuit Crumbs
# 8754

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I could say a lot and it would mostly come out as self-pity.

Say whatever you feel like saying - you're in friendly company [Smile]

I recently dipped my toe back into the internet dating waters, partly in an attempt to shake myself out of the inertia that followed a complicated long distance emotional attachment. Quit after a month as I just couldn't connect in any way reading profiles, and a creepy guy put me off. I'd like to meet someone in some kind of real world scenario, but I have no idea how or where. I can't keep taking up new hobbies...!

Posts: 4255 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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I'm afraid I seem to have reached a stage in my life where I've given up on being someone else's special person, and having a special person of my own. There wouldn't've been a month go by without me feeling attraction to someone, or developing a bit of a crush - but I haven't felt this way about anyone for a couple of years now.

I don't know whether it's because as a priest my default setting has now tuned into 'professional celibate', or something inside my head has just died where libido is concerned [Confused] .

--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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I know what you mean--a partner for me has always seemed kind of like a tattoo.

Let me explain. I have one (tattoo, not, currently, partner), and I did a great, great deal of thinking before I got it and I wouldn't have bothered getting inked with anything other than that. It was and is a very specific message, and that specificity happened before the idea of embodying it in a tattoo. If I hadn't chosen it, I wouldn't be inked at all--there just isn't a point.

Evidently, there are folks out there who show up at a tattoo parlor with the intention of getting something, look at the pretty pictures on the wall, shrug a bit, and pick one.

This bloody well baffles me. In tattoos, and relationships.

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28

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I don't think I posted on the previous thread, but I'll try to stick around on this one.

My current situation is a bit complicated. I'm in the hopefully final stages of a divorce which I never wanted, but which now that it's come I want to get over with. And I'm involved with a married man, with the knowledge and approval of his wife (see the "marital celebacy" thread in purg for more details.) But I would like a guy I don't have to share, but I don't seem to meet anyone. I don't get out much and no one seems interested in me on-line. *sigh*

--------------------
On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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Hazey*Jane

Ship's Biscuit Crumbs
# 8754

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quote:
Originally posted by infinite_monkey:
I know what you mean--a partner for me has always seemed kind of like a tattoo.

Let me explain. I have one (tattoo, not, currently, partner), and I did a great, great deal of thinking before I got it and I wouldn't have bothered getting inked with anything other than that. It was and is a very specific message, and that specificity happened before the idea of embodying it in a tattoo. If I hadn't chosen it, I wouldn't be inked at all--there just isn't a point.

Evidently, there are folks out there who show up at a tattoo parlor with the intention of getting something, look at the pretty pictures on the wall, shrug a bit, and pick one.

This bloody well baffles me. In tattoos, and relationships.

That's a really helpful analogy. I sometimes fear I'm being too picky, but I don't think I want to spend a lifetime with someone just for the sake of spending a lifetime with someone. I've never found an image with which I can imagine being associated with for the rest of my life, nor have I met anyone (available and interested) with whom I can imagine the same. I thus remain single and uninked!
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comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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the tat analogy works for me, too. I'm picky.

but why is it bad to be picky? the right guy comes along, great. meanwhile, I'll continue having a life. I've compromised in the past, it didn't work well. But a lot of friends (well meaning!) seem to think I should accept the attentions that I'm getting from some really great guys who are simply not the right guy.

If we have nothing in common to talk about it won't work. If he's needy it won't work. if he's afraid of women with children it won't work. if his only idea of fun involves alcohol, it won't work.

unfortunately, that describes most of the men around here. Lots of great men; damn few who can discuss things like church history or buddhist philosophy or the modern implications of colonialism on Alaska Native culture or the comparison of general awesomeness between Marvel and DC comics.

yeah, I'm a nerd. That's okay, though - I just want another nerd.

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17022 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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Thanks, Hazey Jane! Right there with you on the pickiness thing--which I prefer to interpret as "healthy selectivity". I mean, as long as our dealbreakers aren't things like freckles or a lack of perfect pitch, I think it's pretty reasonable to have a sense that it's best to connect with someone you're actually and specifically excited about.

Over the past several years--sometimes while dating a bit, sometimes while not--I've worked hard to craft a life that's intrinsically pretty decent. One that doesn't have what feels like a gaping human-shaped hole in it that I have to fill with someone else.

The thing is, though, that as much as it's utterly true that I don't need somebody, and most certainly do not feel like having just anybody , I am at a point--a good, solid, pleased-with-myself point--where I would like to share. Where I feel, not like "My God, I can't be happy until I have a partner", but where it feels like there's enough happy to go around.

And that has, I've discovered, another set of challenges. Chief of which right now is the feeling that maybe I don't have things nearly as together as I think I do, because there are so many people around me who seem to have much bigger issues and they manage this minefield so much better than I do.

I know deep down that this is a very silly metric, but how do other folks avoid the temptation to measure themselves with it? I need to get past feeling like, dangit, my ex with seven matching sets of baggage who has managed to screw up one marriage and one relationship since we broke up is dating again--what am I doing wrong?

Er, besides the run-on-sentences, that is. I recognize THAT error from a mile away.

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379

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Have been (rarely, like once every 3 or 4 months) going out with a man about 10 years older than me, but of course he has kids and grandkids so most of the time he's gone to their houses, especially Sundays & holidays, etc. Makes it hard to develop any "habit" of hanging out together when he's mostly gone.

There's also the question my widow friends ask from their own experience, do you really want to hitch to someone with medical problems and spend the last good decade of your life nursing him thru his final illness? One thing when it's the culmination of 50 years together, another when it's the culmination of 3 or 4 years together! I'm realizing it would have to be real love for me to take on that high probability risk!

(A friend has "hitched up" with an older man, they share a bed but not a house, no intention of marrying, it keeps the kids from worrying about their inheritance, and frankly it let's her out of daily caretaking a few years from now - he's over 80 - if she decides she wants a lesser part of that chore. Enjoy the good today, walk away from the bad tomorrow, he's no worse off tomorrow than if they hadn't met. Is that a fair way to treat each other? Maybe it's realistic, at this age we aren't stary-eyed teenagers.)

I'm trying to "get out more" even if mostly with other women, just found out about a local "women outdoors" club. I've never really understood the appeal of single gender groups, but having companions to go kayaking and hiking with would be healthier than staying home reading a book.

[ 21. May 2012, 04:04: Message edited by: Belle Ringer ]

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infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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Activity groups can be pretty great. Is there Meetup in your area, Belle Ringer? There are lots of opportunities for all kinds of specific interests where I live.

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351

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quote:
And that has, I've discovered, another set of challenges. Chief of which right now is the feeling that maybe I don't have things nearly as together as I think I do, because there are so many people around me who seem to have much bigger issues and they manage this minefield so much better than I do.

I know deep down that this is a very silly metric, but how do other folks avoid the temptation to measure themselves with it? I need to get past feeling like, dangit, my ex with seven matching sets of baggage who has managed to screw up one marriage and one relationship since we broke up is dating again--what am I doing wrong?

Almost every single person I know operates a similar metric, self included. Not constantly, but it sure as heck comes around in cycles. What's even more annoying is that most of us know it's an idiot metric, and we know that the apparently together/sorted/blessed person we're looking at thinking "Why can't I?" about is carrying a big heap of their own baggage that we just don't know about. And that other people are probably thinking the same thing about us, which is baffling in itself.

Having said that, I have no idea what one does about it. When it mugs me, I do my best to just consciously think in other directions, focus on other things. Because as your own post indicates, the much-dating-ex hasn't got it right, that's why there's a trail of destruction. A trail that you don't have, because you've got it more right than the ex, but you end up comparing apples and razor blades ("THEY have had loads of relationships, I haven't had one" becomes "I'm shit at getting a partner" rather than "At least I'm sufficiently self-aware not to chase after doomed relationships in the first place, and avoid all that chaos and heartache").

Of course, it applies to pretty much every sphere of life, too. And it really hurts when you discover that your apparently totally extrovert, non-introspective friends suffer from the same malaise. Bastards can't even leave you with that superiority! [Paranoid]

--------------------
Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331

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For some reason the recent posts on this thread reminded me of this poem by Ogden Nash (one of his very rare serious pieces).

[ 25. May 2012, 13:45: Message edited by: Jane R ]

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
...or the comparison of general awesomeness between Marvel and DC comics.

What's to discuss? From 1960 to the early 1980s British Invasion its Marvel 100, DC nil. There is no comparison! (Then of course you get Vertigo which is a different matter entirely...)

quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
For some reason the recent posts on this thread reminded me of this poem by Ogden Nash (one of his very rare serious pieces).

And so dismal and depressing that you can see why he mostly stuck to the funny ones.

Also its not really true, at least in my limited experience. Being with people I don't know very well often is better than being on my own. In fact its usually much better. And the occasional rare brief encounter, even if not leding anywhere else, makes me feel better as well. In fact much better. And the effect spreads out and improves the rest of life as well.

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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Such a helpful, wise post, Snags! Thanks for that. I may very well be printing that out and slapping myself upside the head with it repeatedly in upcoming weeks.

quote:
Originally posted by Snags:

Of course, it applies to pretty much every sphere of life, too. And it really hurts when you discover that your apparently totally extrovert, non-introspective friends suffer from the same malaise. Bastards can't even leave you with that superiority! [Paranoid]

Indeed. Sometimes, folks hold their cards and scars so closely that you'd never know what's going on until you get to a place that most people don't get to with that person.

As I'm currently discovering with my friend, who may also become my more-than-friend. Or maybe not, depending on how all the issues work out.

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Surfing Madness
Shipmate
# 11087

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Been meaning to join this conversation for a few weeks, but the essays are screaming at me (they still are but I'm pretending not to hear.)

I'm struggling with being single, and also with not having had kids. Which is really driving me up the wall. I love kids, but am very aware of the realities of having children (various friends have left me in charge of their kids for up to a week.) If I was in a situation where I could have children, I probably wouldn't want them anyway.
The same applies to being single, I'd really like a partner, but am aware that I like the freedom that comes with not. The ability to go away when I want, without taking into account what someone else is doing. Next summer i'll be job hunting, and again am very grateful that I don't need to only look where my other half (could) also have a job.
Overall I guess I want the best of both worlds, which means I'm not that happy in the world of singleness, but don't think a partner would make me any happier at the moment.

--------------------
I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk

Posts: 1542 | From: searching for the jam | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Mad Cat
Shipmate
# 9104

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I've been internet dating for a few months and am giving myself a break from it at the moment. I met some nice people, but the ones that I was attracted to didn't feel the same way. One night I'd forgotten to put on any boy repellant and the guy asked me out again - he was a nice guy, but an actuary and likes Yes. We didn't have much to talk about.

I met a guy at a friend's dinner party. He was nice and seemed interested. Being hopeless, I did nothing about it. Now I have resorted to Facebook stalking (and subsequently learning how to cancel friend requests for fear of looking like an actual stalker...) and wangling a mobile number from a mutual friend.

I texted this evening thinking, "What's the worst that can happen?!" Well, I could sit here feeling IGNORED, even though it's only <checks> two hours and 10 minutes since I sent it.

Oh God. Oh God, oh God, oh God.

--------------------
Weird and sweary.

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Zoey

Broken idealist
# 11152

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Dear Mad Cat, I have always had a great deal of respect for you based on your Ship postings. Thank you for the above. It makes me feel less of a freak for being acutely aware that the guy I'm interested in on OKCupid has not messaged me back for *5* days - which is unusually long for him (possibly longer than he's ever taken to message back before, but I'm trying not to be a complete obsessive by not going and counting the number of days in between all of our previous messages).

I'm finding this internet-dating malarky a bit nerve-wracking, having essentially stumbled into it by mistake. I used to think I was 90%+ likely to be single for the rest of my life, which was a markedly less tense state of affairs, if also extremely lonely and miserable at times.

Ho hum.

--------------------
Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.

Posts: 3081 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Mad Cat
Shipmate
# 9104

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<checks text messages>

Sigh......... the boy repellant obviously kicked in then.

--------------------
Weird and sweary.

Posts: 1842 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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Aw poop!

It happens at times--once we send our energy out in the world, what gets done or not done with it is so maddeningly outside our control.

I'm a text obsessor--all must be very carefully calibrated and scrupulously proofread, all emoticons delivered at the level of the other party sending them, and the same amount of time must elapse on my end as typically elapses on theirs, to ensure that I seem neither too eager nor too hard to get. Ratio should be 50-50 of course between self and other party. And there are so many things to read into any delays or non-responses: I can really get myself into a lather about those.

Ah well, it gives us something to do, I guess...

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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There are plenty of people who don't read their text messages for a long time - a few hours delay is hardly significant. Even a day.

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
There are plenty of people who don't read their text messages for a long time - a few hours delay is hardly significant. Even a day.

That rather depends on who you think might be texting you.

Of course, in my day it was Waiting For The Phone To Ring.

Posts: 17253 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mad Cat
Shipmate
# 9104

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Four days now Ken. Don't think I'm going to get a reply, which is a shame as I really thought he was keen.

Ne'er mind...... next!

--------------------
Weird and sweary.

Posts: 1842 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
moonlitdoor
Shipmate
# 11707

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I am not too familiar with the etiquette of text messaging, but am a bit surprised that a person wouldn't reply to say 'thanks but no thanks' if they received the message but were not interested.

--------------------
We've evolved to being strange monkeys, but in the next life he'll help us be something more worthwhile - Gwai

Posts: 2208 | From: london | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Mad Cat
Shipmate
# 9104

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Yeah, but my mistake was that I didn't give him my number or get his on the night. I ask my friend for his number only because I was sure he liked me, but maybe it just seems a bit weird to get a text out of the blue.

My bad..... [Hot and Hormonal]

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Weird and sweary.

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Hazey*Jane

Ship's Biscuit Crumbs
# 8754

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Are you sure you got the right number then?
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Mad Cat
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# 9104

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Possibly not - if it *is* wrong, that's probably a good thing!

Next time I meet someone I like, I will endeavour to be less clumsy.....

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Weird and sweary.

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comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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there are also plenty of people who don't have texting as part of their plan. they never even receive them. try calling. Invite him out for coffee. go on, be brave!

(how do I know this? because of the same experience a year ago. text sent. no response. feel totally rejected. eat pint of ice cream. months *MONTHS!* later, find out he doesn't receive text messages at all and never knew I tried to contact him. [brick wall] )

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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infinite_monkey
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# 11333

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It's so hard to not have all the information you want, isn't it? Perhaps you can check with the friend who gave you the number, both to see if you had it right, and to see if texting's something that this person typically does.

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His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
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Mad Cat
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# 9104

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Whatever's happened with my wee missive, I think the lessons to take away are:
* electronic communication has its place, but it's probably not the way to make that first contact;
* don't be a wimp about saying what you want. Faint heart and all that......

I'm also waiting to hear back from people about flatshares, and have had several emails go unanswered. I think people maybe place less value on electronic communication.

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Weird and sweary.

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LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216

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Just out of interest, and I don't need details, but what kind of text message did you send him? An invitation to a date? A love declaration? A witty joke?

Speaking as a guy, I think the last would probably work best for me.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Mad Cat
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# 9104

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It was an invitation to go for a drink, wrapped up in a joky reference to something we'd been having a laugh about during the dinner party.

Maybe it wasn't so funny after all.... [Roll Eyes]

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Weird and sweary.

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LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
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quote:
Mad Cat: It was an invitation to go for a drink, wrapped up in a joky reference to something we'd been having a laugh about during the dinner party.
That sounds nice.

I hope I'm not out of line saying this, but trying to put myself in the guy's shoes, perhaps it would be more natural to me to exchange two or three texts with joking references first, and then be invited to a drink. But I guess it depends on the person.

(PS I'm out of the dating game.)

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351

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quote:
I think people maybe place less value on electronic communication.
Just communication, full stop, sometimes. Or at least, any communication that requires the faintest effort from them to respond (so text, email, Facebook, Twitter, even returning a call if you leave a voicemail). I'm out of the dating context, but in lots of other areas, both work and personal, I need to arrange stuff with people and getting a response is often like pulling teeth. Even from good friends, when you're trying to do something they want you to do in the first place.

I used to put this down to an age thing (where I had low expectations of anyone under 30) but even my peers (add a decade) are pretty atrocious.

It makes oi mad, so it do.

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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

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Mad Cat
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# 9104

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Thanks LeRoc.....

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Weird and sweary.

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Scots lass
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# 2699

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This is a post more for just saying it all, rather than anything else! I like someone. We get on very well, we just spent a weekend away with two other people and it was really good. But he's moving to another continent in October and starting a long distance thing isn't a great idea, plus I have absolutely no idea if he's interested in me at all. I'm terrible at picking up signals of any sort! And now I don't know whether I should forget all about him due to imminent departure or keep being optimistic or what, really...

I did think before the weekend away that if my life was a film then it would all work out. Obviously, it's not (and I knew that) but it would have been nice!

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Pomona
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# 17175

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Surfing Madness, I feel much the same as you. I love living alone, and would essentially like a sort of non-sexual friends with benefits situation, but the chances of this happening and the person in question not wanting more than I do is slim.

Tried internet dating, but not for me - mostly because all the men I liked the look of were between about 27 and 33 years of age. I am 23 but look much younger, and they felt I was too young for them...but if they knew the average 23 year old man, I think they'd understand why I was staying away [Ultra confused]

Part of my frustration is with women's ministry and related bumf's focus on wives and mothers (not to mention the twee pink middle class emphasis) - I feel invisible within church culture.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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To The Pain
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# 12235

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originally posted by Jade Constable
quote:
Part of my frustration is with women's ministry and related bumf's focus on wives and mothers (not to mention the twee pink middle class emphasis) - I feel invisible within church culture.
Oh do I feel you. It's not as if I want to be that kind of wife or mother either. And worse, I know I'm not invisible (I'm only a couple of inches shy of 6' for crying out loud) but get the feeling that no-one knows what to do with me. I'm 30, single, reasonably attractive by all accounts and have a PhD. To be honest, I think the height and the PhD are the major hurdles and even they may only really exist in my head.

Perhaps it is a part of the sense that no-one knows what to do with strong, intelligent single women of my age except marry them off so they fit in a box like us that we can understand, but there has been a remarkable lack of understanding of my little urban family or the community I have built around myself - we are no longer students but we couldn't be considered a family or a household because we're not related by blood or marriage and none of us are children.

I also have huge reservations about the separations of men and women that go on in church - I have a lot more in common with full-time breadwinning men than I do with their wives and it disturbs me that our kids' work pits the girls against the boys on a weekly (I think) basis - how does that help them develop friendships and healthy strategies for working together? What does that do to Christ's 'neither slave nor free, male nor female'?

Last year I met a guy who ticked a lot of my boxes and we dated for a couple of months this year. Turned out we were really bad at communicating with each other. To the extent that having identified that, two days later he contacted one of my friends rather than me to find out how I was. That and he held some odd opinions on nutrition, the state of Israel and (very strangely in a Kiwi living in Scotland) was embarassingly pro-Britain patriotic. If he had lived closer we might not even have dated, but I felt like I ought to give him a chance as the initial signs were good.

And I was deeply frustrated that his arrival on the scene made my personal life fair game for gossip. Like my news was suddenly everyone else's to tell. It meant that I shut down conversations I would have been happy to have because I couldn't get over the fact that they started as a result of someone sharing things that were mine to share.

Sorry, that grew into a bit of a rant. I shall have to take some of these points away and ponder them to see if I get anywhere. Anyone got any more enlightened thoughts (even if they're 'that's interesting but not really what this thread's here for, go think about it somewhere else'?

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Now occasionally blogging.
Hire Bell Tents and camping equipment in Scotland

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Scots lass
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# 2699

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Ah, the goldfish bowl of church dating. Where when a guy and a girl start to chat to each other regularly people notice and ask what's going on...

I think there would be a lot more dating if people weren't so damn self-conscious about the whole thing! And if it didn't seem to make your private life public property - although I hold my hands up and confess to being as curious as the next person. I don't have the solution though.

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Nenya
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# 16427

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quote:
Originally posted by Scots lass:
Ah, the goldfish bowl of church dating. Where when a guy and a girl start to chat to each other regularly people notice and ask what's going on...

Although it's no different really to workplace dating, tennis club dating or flower arranging committee dating in that respect.

I've no right to be here really as I'm so longterm married I've forgotten how dating goes. I just come here to catch a whiff of the excitement of the ups and downs of it all... [Hot and Hormonal]

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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.

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Pomona
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# 17175

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To The Pain - despite being almost a foot shorter than you (so I'm not sure it's a height thing) your post totally resonated with me. The gender seperation thing bothers me too - girls v boys in secular youth culture is bad enough, why do we have to emulate that in the church? Shouldn't we be different? I also hate how debates on science etc are mostly attended by men while women's breakfasts (boak) talk about weight loss and other highly intellectual topics [Ultra confused]

A lot of what gets said about the need for men's ministry can also be said for single professional/well-educated women in the church.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Surfing Madness
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# 11087

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Another one agreeing here, the church doesn't know what to do with singles, especially when they get past about 25ish. I find that getting to know people is tough when you don't fit in the boxes.

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I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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I've never been a fan of the gender role dichotomy in relationships—partly because I like women who are at least as tall as I am and have advanced degrees (as well as their own opinions on things), but also because I just dislike gender role dichotomies in general. I realize that this whole dating thing is so emotionally fraught and dangerous that holding on to what look like guides and rules seems like a good thing, but really? Is equality and honesty too much to ask for, even from fallen humans?

Okay, yes, it probably is. Still, it might be nice.

I think I'm the one person who's never gotten the "welcome to church, here's the list of single women, please start us a new family" push, though that may be because I'm older than many married couples who attend church. Or it could be that I know church ladies without single granddaughters who must be married off at all costs. I'm ruling out the obvious impossibility that I just know church ladies who don't mind others' business.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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To The Pain
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# 12235

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
To The Pain - despite being almost a foot shorter than you (so I'm not sure it's a height thing)

Ah, but you're probably not as heightist as me! I can be 6'3" if the fancy takes me and aparently that can be intimidating (or really, really attractive, or both, depending on who you ask). I'm almost convinced that the main reason my pastor has never had a normal conversation with me is the fact that he has to look up to do it. And I know it's shallow but I just can't envision a relationship of equals with a man I physically look down upon.

And in the other direction I haven't a leg to stand on - my mother is 17" shorter than my father so I can't really moan about all these short women snapping up the tall men. I'm sure they do it deliberately though.

quote:
...your post totally resonated with me. The gender seperation thing bothers me too - girls v boys in secular youth culture is bad enough, why do we have to emulate that in the church? Shouldn't we be different? I also hate how debates on science etc are mostly attended by men while women's breakfasts (boak) talk about weight loss and other highly intellectual topics [Ultra confused]

A lot of what gets said about the need for men's ministry can also be said for single professional/well-educated women in the church.

Our evening service once took the form of a topic introduction followed by small group discussions. The groups were allocated according to some little quiz thing about worship styles and how one appreciates God. I had a pretty even split between two options so I chose the group that only contained two blokes and had a really interesting discussion. I think that focussing on atributes and individual qualities is a lot healthier than expecting people to fit into arbitrary boxes based on their genitalia. I'm sure a lot of wives and mothers would enjoy content a little further removed from weightloss and how to be a good wife and mother. Or speak about weightloss if you like, but put it in the intelligent context of stewardship of the body and use the science to back up your discussions and build in useful insights from all the great body image work out there.

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Now occasionally blogging.
Hire Bell Tents and camping equipment in Scotland

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Belle Ringer
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# 13379

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Singles and churches, yikes! At a multi-denominational retreat I discovered I was at a lunch table of clergy. I seized the moment to ask "what is the place or role of the unmarried adult in the modern western church?" They all said "none." One said, looking frustrated, "all we know to do is throw them in a meat market together and hope they get married, don't we have anything better to offer?"

In a way it was relaxing, I had not "fit in" since hitting about age 30, by which time everyone is supposed to be married I guess. Women's groups became chatter about babies and formulas, I thought when the kids grew up my friends would have time to go to a movie, get together for a holiday, but no, they are off visiting their grandbabies.

A few years ago I figured out that after age 65-70 I'd have church friends again; and yes the widows do include me go to a movie but not holidays, they are with their grandbabies.

The people who include me in their lives, or respond to an invitation from me, are singles. I love being around families, but (except for some atheist friends) they don't want to share family time with me. Hey, my Mom was that way, wouldn't let me bring home an international student with nowhere to go at Christmas, "that's family time."

My tentative conclusion is singles must give up hoping for acceptance/inclusion by families, and build their own network of other singles. Churches are probably not a good place to do that because churches are run by and for the familied. Secular interest groups may be much better places to find friends.

(Man at the newcomers committee wants the church to adopt a "logo" of a multi-generational family -- that image leaves out singles, gay couples, single parents. It's an image of himself. It's an image of the rest of the committee so by majority vote we misfits are officially invisible.)

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