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Source: (consider it) Thread: A Truth Universally Acknowledged...
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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FWIW I haven't had this can't cope with singles thing with my Quaker meeting.

As regards singlesand couples, I am going around to one of my friends tomorrow to be with her and her two year old whilst dad's at work. I rather enjoy being an honorary auntie.

My impression is that parents worry that you will object to being puked on by babies or jumped on by toddlers, or be anxious about children knocking your ornaments over when they visit your home - if you disabuse them of this notion it helps.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19194 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Paul.
Shipmate
# 37

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I also hate how debates on science etc are mostly attended by men while women's breakfasts (boak) talk about weight loss and other highly intellectual topics [Ultra confused]

In the dim past when I went to such things the men's breakfasts at our church was mostly about football or cars. I'd've been more interested in a debate about science if there ever was such a thing.
Posts: 3681 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Think²:
My impression is that parents worry that you will object to being puked on by babies or jumped on by toddlers, or be anxious about children knocking your ornaments over when they visit your home - if you disabuse them of this notion it helps.

That's just the ones who know me!
[Biased]

I consider myself extremely lucky at my church -- singles are very much a part of the life of the parish. I am also regularly invited to parties with singles and couples (o.k., it's mostly married couples and single women), and there are several married couples who invite me to do things with them.

--------------------
Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

Posts: 9543 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mad Cat
Shipmate
# 9104

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quote:
Originally posted by Scots lass:
This is a post more for just saying it all, rather than anything else! I like someone. We get on very well, we just spent a weekend away with two other people and it was really good. But he's moving to another continent in October and starting a long distance thing isn't a great idea, plus I have absolutely no idea if he's interested in me at all. I'm terrible at picking up signals of any sort! And now I don't know whether I should forget all about him due to imminent departure or keep being optimistic or what, really...

I did think before the weekend away that if my life was a film then it would all work out. Obviously, it's not (and I knew that) but it would have been nice!

Hey, it's a long time till October to work things out.

If you've had a lovely weekend together, would it be possible to say:
"I really enjoyed our weekend together. Would you like to have a meal this week?" or something similar?

You could also say:
"I really like spending time with you. I'm rubbish at reading signals and I wonder if there's something between us, or not??"

If s/he doesn't feel the same, you've only got until autumn to feel awkard (if until then...) If s/he feels the same, you can see where life takes you. Maybe to a different continet??

Disclaimer: I am the world's most hopless dater, and I've had several glasses of wine, so, umm.....
[Smile]

--------------------
Weird and sweary.

Posts: 1842 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Cat:

You could also say:
"I really like spending time with you. I'm rubbish at reading signals and I wonder if there's something between us, or not??"

That is awesome. Should I be in a situation similar to current one ever again, I'm totally using THAT instead. It's simple, non-threatening, just open enough.

Well done.

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424

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I agree - one thing I learnt in my assertiveness work a decade and more ago is that if you don't make things clear to others you might get an ambiguous answer back.

--------------------
I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
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What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?

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Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965

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quote:
Originally posted by Think²:
FWIW I haven't had this can't cope with singles thing with my Quaker meeting.

Me neither in my Anglican church. (Nor indeed in my previous inter denomination church.) I'm always stunned to hear some of the stories shared here.

Though the 'network of singles' thing does ring true - the families at church seem to engage more with other families than with those without children (whether single, coupled-no children, coupled-children have left home).

--------------------
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Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?

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Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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It's not totally a bad thing - there's only so much interest to be found in the toilet, sleeping and feeding habits of other people's children.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
It's not totally a bad thing - there's only so much interest to be found in the toilet, sleeping and feeding habits of other people's children.

And so many parents of little ones seem to think that bodily functions of said little ones are appropriate dinner conversation.

--------------------
Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Surfing Madness
Shipmate
# 11087

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
It's not totally a bad thing - there's only so much interest to be found in the toilet, sleeping and feeding habits of other people's children.

And so many parents of little ones seem to think that bodily functions of said little ones are appropriate dinner conversation.
Seems rather pleasant dinner conversation after you've shared a flat with Doctors. [Ultra confused]

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I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk

Posts: 1542 | From: searching for the jam | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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I think I've been remarkably lucky in terms of finding a community to be a part of, regardless of my partnered or unpartnered state. It's definitely true that folks raising kids have less free time, and I've had the occasional friend who drops off the face of the freaking earth when love comes to town. On reflection, I think one thing that's really helped is casting a wide net, as it were--I know my friends with kids will probably not be able to spend time with me more often than once a month, realistically (but then again, that's not much different than my single, childless friend with a truly insane job.) It also helps that, though the majority of people I know are partnered, they're not ALL always and forever joined at the hip-so it doesn't feel awkward for me to spend time with them, and when I have folks over for dinner or games, it's not just a Noah's Ark scenario where I'm the lone dinosaur.

I've been thinking a lot lately about what makes a romantic relationship different from a strong friendship (besides the obvious of smooches and possible kids)--what is it, exactly, that I don't have if I don't have that in my life? I think a lot of times, our society sells this idea that a romantic partnership means the one person who is everything: your social network, your support provider, your soul mate, your confidant--all of the things you get from other people, but even better and more important because it comes from just that one. And I think I question the healthiness of that, just for myself--I don't know if I can be all those things for someone else, if that someone else doesn't also get at least some of their "human fix" from other people.

What are other people's thoughts about this?

In other news, I have a date this afternoon with a guy from the internet. And I honestly don't know if I want it to go well...

//
Edited because "much more different" make no sense.

[ 26. June 2012, 17:34: Message edited by: infinite_monkey ]

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

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Lucia

Looking for light
# 15201

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quote:
Originally posted by infinite_monkey:

I've been thinking a lot lately about what makes a romantic relationship different from a strong friendship (besides the obvious of smooches and possible kids)--what is it, exactly, that I don't have if I don't have that in my life? I think a lot of times, our society sells this idea that a romantic partnership means the one person who is everything: your social network, your support provider, your soul mate, your confidant--all of the things you get from other people, but even better and more important because it comes from just that one. And I think I question the healthiness of that, just for myself--I don't know if I can be all those things for someone else, if that someone else doesn't also get at least some of their "human fix" from other people.

What are other people's thoughts about this?

Ok, sneaking into the thread as a 17 yrs married female here are a few thoughts. Firstly I think a strong friendship is the basis of a long term partnership and the romantic bit is what happens when you get the sexual attraction and falling in love which is wonderful and exciting but I think time limited in its intensity. When that calms down then a strong friendship is a very good thing to have. At its most basic I see being married as having someone to do life together with, who I get on with and enjoy spending time with. But I find that we do also need time apart. When we were studying together I found it hard as we were doing stuff together all day. I found I missed us having things to talk about that the other hadn't been there for.

But I think you are right that believing one person can be everything you need is unrealistic and probably unhealthy. It puts an impossible expectation on each other that is almost bound to lead to disappointment. Maybe when people live in more contact with their extended families or in cultures where the community plays a greater role there is less temptation to expect one person to meet all your needs and more people to fill the gaps that they are unable to meet fully. I wonder if that lack of wider support and community is a factor in some relationship breakdowns when people realise their partner cannot be everything for them?

By the way I like your analogy of trying to get time with parents as being like trying to get time with a friend with an insane job. Being a parent is like having an insane job, especially when they are young. There is no let up and the demands can be constant. It is very hard to set it aside and not talk about your kids when your life is revolving around them. I appreciate it must be pretty boring for the non parents but parents of young children may not feel they have much else to talk about even if they do get a chance to go out socialising. And that can be a big 'if'; when my kids were younger my social life was pretty non existant.

I think in general people often gravitate towards socialising with people like themselves in similar situations to themselves. It takes less effort! But we miss out by doing so. It works in both directions by the way. I have at times felt a little sad when the bunch of singles I know have been arranging events but they don't invite me. I guess they think I wouldn't want to go but as I said earlier one person doesn't fulfill all your social needs and there have been times when I have felt a bit lonely for other friendship and would probably have enjoyed joining in if I could.

[ 26. June 2012, 21:27: Message edited by: Lucia ]

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Hazey*Jane

Ship's Biscuit Crumbs
# 8754

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*bump*

How's everyone doing?

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Surfing Madness
Shipmate
# 11087

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I was thinking of bumping this. Actually enjoying being single at the moment......wonder how long that will last!

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I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk

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infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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Hey all!

Glad this thing's still got wheels. I tried to bump it a couple weeks ago, but realized that I had no idea how to accurately, succinctly express where I was and what I was feeling in terms of this Universal Truth.

Basically, I've spent the past 8 months or so in a very bizarre, deeply charged will-we-or-won't-we platonic romance with someone who became my closest friend over that time. Someone who, it unfolded over the course of these months, has really significant issues about intimacy and closeness. We got, together, as close to a relationship as either of us have been in several years, but in July, it became clear that isn't in the cards for us to get all the way there.

And I'm still processing what that means for my friendship with the person, which I still want to hold on to. She's really challenged by communicating about emotional stuff like this, so we can't really talk, together, about how to move forward. She tried, once, to figure out how to explain to me why she went from thinking we might be able to have a relationship to thinking we couldn't, and how that had nothing to do with I said or did in between those two periods: the end result was ten days of absolute silence followed by an email saying, "I've made several attempts, but everything I've written has been totally incoherent."

So we just keep making awkward small talk most of the time, reverting back into deeper ways of relating with each other some of the time, and then hitting a wall because either she pulls back (which is her historical way or reacting to closeness) or I do (which is my knee-jerk response, right now, because I feel like I let myself get too attached to her the first time round).

Grr argh. I know there are truckloads of Dear Abby's about how to move on after a breakup and stay friends with your ex, but we weren't actually even in the bloody relationship first by conventional terms.

Hope everyone else is on much smoother pathways!

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

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comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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oh dear, here I am.

I'm being very hesitantly pursued by a man 11 years younger than me. He's interesting and not insane. We share a lot of interests. He's a good guy.

But geez he's SO 20-something and I'm so NOT. He lives with his mother. which isn't a crime - he has a real job etc, but doesn't that say to you that this is a guy who probably has never had to sort his own laundry or pay the fuel bill?

And I don't WANT to be Mrs Robinson to anybody ever. I already have children. But I have to be honest and admit that the older I get, the thinner the potential field is. most men my age are married. and if they are not, maybe there is good reason for that. And the single men my age are not interested in me, they're after the 20 year olds. At least once they find out I'm NOT one of the 20 year olds.

He's not the first 20-something interested in me, either. but he's probably the nicest and least batshit crazy so I'm more worried about hurting his feelings.

ARGH! I don't want to settle for some young guy who will probably make me feel old and whom I don't really find attractive, but this whole going-years-without-sex thing really sucks.

someone tell me my instincts are good and I don't really want the youngling. please!

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17022 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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you total cougar! Make sure he's not after a surrogate mother.

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

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comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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and THAT is a real concern. I seem to attract men with Mommy Issues, no matter the age. Like I said, I already have children. I don't want a relationship where I have to be the grownup there, too.

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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jacobsen

seeker
# 14998

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Not all the time, naturally. But IMO most balanced relationships combine elements of protectiveness/being protected on both sides. See

transactional analysis

--------------------
But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

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jacobsen

seeker
# 14998

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Further to my last post, I know of two partnerships among my friends where the younger partner is immensely supportive in all sorts of ways. Mommy may come into it at times, but so does Poppa! [Biased]

But it has to be said that the older partner, in these cases the woman, is often highly resistant and has to be persuaded that a balanced relationship involves admitting need and accepting help.

This may not, however, apply to you. (Dodges battle axe.)

[ 03. September 2012, 11:23: Message edited by: jacobsen ]

--------------------
But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

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Earwig

Pincered Beastie
# 12057

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I don't want to settle for some (snip) guy who (snip) I don't really find attractive, but this whole going-years-without-sex thing really sucks.

Surely that's the deal-breaker? If you don't find him attractive (physically or mentally), it doesn't matter how young or how old he is.

If a friend was thinking of dating someone they didn't find attractive, I'd tell them don't go there. You deserve much better than to settle for less than you want, and he deserves someone who thinks he's amazing. No-one wins!

But that doesn't solve the no-sex thing, I know...

Posts: 3120 | From: Yorkshire | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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Wot Earwig said. And there are, er, other ways of solving the no-sex thing which do not involve emotional entanglement with another person who sounds like he wants more than just a physical connection.

Although, truth be told, I have the libido of floor polish (actually, perhaps less than, as floor polish is, er, pretty much designed to get more action than I do), so take that contribution with several pounds of salt.

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Beenster
Shipmate
# 242

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Comet do you fancy this guy? If so, take a chance. You may hurt him, you may not. You may end up being the one that gets hurt? I hope neither of you do, that you both have a wild and temptestuous and steamy time and then move on both completely worn out but having had the most marvellous times and memories that will make you smile when you have no teeth.

I do understand (slightly) your concern. I fell for someone who was twenty years younger than me - it was on holiday. He was perfect and I troubled myself about hurting him and so nothing happened. I chatted him up with the wonderful lines "hey, I could be your mother". wham bam.

Yup. Time I had a really lovely relationship. It's been far too long.

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ecumaniac

Ship's whipping girl
# 376

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quote:
Originally posted by infinite_monkey:
Basically, I've spent the past 8 months or so in a very bizarre, deeply charged will-we-or-won't-we platonic romance with someone who became my closest friend over that time.

[snip]


I think I might have been in almost exactly the same situation. We started round about May last year, and went on for about 12 months before calling it quits. PM if you'd like to chat about it, not really comfortable writing too much more in a public forum.

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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine

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leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Beenster:
I fell for someone who was twenty years younger than me - it was on holiday. He was perfect and I troubled myself about hurting him and so nothing happened. I chatted him up with the wonderful lines "hey, I could be your mother". wham bam.

Yup. Time I had a really lovely relationship. It's been far too long.

Yes, I was thinking about this with a twinge of envy.

Beauty and youth doesn't grow on trees. When you get to my age.

[ 03. September 2012, 18:52: Message edited by: leo ]

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

Posts: 23075 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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quote:
Originally posted by Beenster:
Comet do you fancy this guy?

the reality is - no. I'm not attracted to him at all. a mutual friend is pushing me a bit, and it's making me think maybe this is my only chance. which I know is stupid. but in small towns I think it's easy to get into that mindset. the reality is, I'd rather not have anyone than be with someone unsuitable. I'm not looking for a relationship - I'm pretty dang busy and life is pretty full. romance (and bedroom gymnastics) would be lovely, but not worth compromising for.

I've just talked myself right out of this, haven't I? [Biased]

I am really more concerned about shooting him down should he make a move. he's a nice guy. just not my kind of nice guy. I have no problem shooting down assholes!

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17022 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
jacobsen

seeker
# 14998

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Sounds like you've decided already. There's certainly no point in following anyone's inclination except your own. The department of kindly brush-offs could be a thread all on its own. [Votive]

[ 03. September 2012, 23:00: Message edited by: jacobsen ]

--------------------
But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

Posts: 7827 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged
infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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Better for all involved to be honest, clear, gentle, and, perhaps, relatively quick. If you're pretty damn sure he's interested, and pretty damn sure you're not, it may be kindest to let him know where you're at with things, as one never knows what kind of mental gymnastics he's going through right now trying to psych himself up for a move that won't work.

(Says the person who recently had the experience of expressing an interest in someone who then asked for a week to think about it--fast forward two months to the point at which both people choose to actually to GIVE THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM A NAME because that feels emotionally safer than really talking about whether the interest was mutual...) The elephant, for the record, was named Schrodinger. The other person, for the record, is ambivalently uninterested and massively confused (she actually sent me a less-incoherent email three days ago, and if anything, it left things even less clear than they were when she wasn't talking.) We're currently engaged in an elephant autopsy, as we try to figure out where the hell to go from here. Comet, DO NOT BE THESE PEOPLE. These people have Issues.)

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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bless you, infinite monkey. I promise to try and be as clear and as gentle as I can be. my problem is not ambivalent, stepping-around-the-elephants - it's the gentle part. I missed the day they taught subtle at school.

But I guess there are worse things I could be than honest.

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17022 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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it's me again. I just need to vent somewhere "safe" and you lovely people are it. (have I told you lately that I love you?)

the problem with the young guy is getting weird. I don't know what to do. halp!

I told him - as part of a nice platonic conversation - that I'm not looking for a relationship right now (technically true. too busy to look) and would rather spend my energies on my projects and my children. I thought the message would get across and all would be well. at the end of that same conversation he asked if we could get together for dinner some time - just as friends. I gave a non-commital "sure. at some point. when things slow down a bit for me." this was meant to be a rather gentle brush-off. I dont want to be evil - I'm supposed to be his next director, for Eff's sake!

a mutual friend has already tried to gently warn him off. too gentle, apparently - it didn't take.

so two different nights now - including tonight - he has come to the bar during my shift, ordered one drink, and proceeded to sit there for hours basically staring at me. tonight - 4 hours. FOUR FREAKING HOURS of me feeling like I was being mentally undressed while I'm trying to bloody work. I was afraid he'd try to stay when I closed down, and got a bad case of the creeps. When I go home from work, I'm the last person in town. the sidewalks are rolled up. it can leave me pretty vulnerable. one of my door guys (off-duty) saw what was going on and also got the creeps for me. (we're talking staring, moony-eyed. no talking to people, just eyes following me around ALL. NIGHT. LONG.) my door guy hung out and helped me close and basically shuffled him out of there. Afterwards I go in back and find a text from him saying he's going to call me tomorrow and can he come over? I haven't answered.

(lovely door guy stayed until I left, wallked me to the car, did a "perimeter check" of the bar. he gets bonus points)

this after getting multiple text messages and facebook messages every day for weeks now, and him "liking" and commenting on damn near everything on FB. I'm starting to feel a bit stalked.

I just found out that for my son's themed birthday party this guy has spent numerous hours and a ton of money to make a super fancy costume. for an 11 year old's birthday party!

I dont want to be harsh, and I'm generally pretty direct (see: harsh) he's a young guy and acting very much like a moony teenager which makes me think that my usual bluntness will crush his little ego. I'm actually pretty sure of it. delicate artists types and all that. I'm starting to feel he actually might be the type to go into a depression spiral, and we are coming into winter.

I don't want that. he's a nice guy. the last time I had to do that all our mutual friends for weeks were being cried on and hounded, and I was being hounded a bit too. it's icky. I don't like icky. in fact, I've basically avoided icky (relationships) for two years since then because I don't want the icky.

I'm seriously considering making up an imaginary boyfriend or getting some guy friend to send me romantic Facebook posts or something to take myself off the market. it's dishonest, yes, but it avoids the icky. and this has just gone from awkward to a bit creepy - but not so creepy that I feel comfortable crushing his ego.

I don't do subtle or delicate well! Why why WHYWHYWHY?!?!?

am I overreacting? is this really getting creepy or is it just "cute"? Do I confront him and risk hamfisting it and really hurting him? and, who wants to be my make-believe boyfriend? (hah! just kidding. I think.)

OH HELL!

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17022 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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Seriously creepy and definitely time for an imaginary boyfriend and some laying down of ground rules - like the ones about not coming to your work.

I don't do harsh well, but I'd be working out how to do it here. Is there a more suitable girlfriend or a girl who thinks he's cute you can detail to look after him?

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

Posts: 13597 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216

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quote:
comet: I gave a non-commital "sure. at some point. when things slow down a bit for me." this was meant to be a rather gentle brush-off.
I'm not sure if the problem is that you 'don't do subtle well'. Believe me, guys are usually pretty bad at picking up subtle signals. (I've been guilty of it more than once.) My guess is that he interpreted your brush-off as "She'll want me later!"

Good luck with this.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

Posts: 9462 | From: UK / Africa / Brazil | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167

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Worryingly C~R~E~E~P~Y - has this guy behaved like this with anyone else? Your Door guy is wonderfully perceptive and it's so good he picked up on what was going on.
Posts: 3179 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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Perhaps the mutual friend could try a very direct conversation--one where things are explicitly stated, without you in the room feeling potentially guilty and possibly softpedaling things where the foot needs to be all the way down.

"Your attentions are making my friend feel very uncomfortable: she initially said she would like to be friends with you, but this isn't how a friend behaves. Honestly, if you continue showering her with this much attention, she's most likely going to want to cut off contact with you altogether: if that's not what you'd like to have happen, please step back."

You can't control whether or not him taking in this information involves a depressive spiral, but the information is real, and necessary.

Good luck!

Also: facebook has a custom feature--I'd block my posts from him for awhile, just to avoid giving him the fodder to moon over.

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Jonah the Whale

Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244

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quote:
I told him - as part of a nice platonic conversation - that I'm not looking for a relationship right now right now
Maybe he was concentrating on those last two words and thinking along the lines of "maybe next week, or next month then". I'm with LeRoc on this, I think (some) guys can probably do subtle a couple of orders of magnitude less well than you imagine.
Posts: 2795 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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I thought this from Ariston was quite apposite when I was in a similar situation. (FWIW - granted this was a person who I really, really didn't want to go out with)

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424

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You could try the assertive approach and simply tell him that you find the way he is behaving creepy and you want him to stop. No sugar coating, no use of sorry or but and then carry on as usual, unless he carries on in which case you ask for a lock of his hair to put on a little wax doll behind the bar, in full sight, and then get yourself a packet of hat pins!


eta: I certainly agree with the last line of Ariston's post linked above - you have no reason to feel guilt, none whatever! You are NOT responsible for his actions or his comfort or his mental health!

[ 19. September 2012, 15:49: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]

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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details

What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?

Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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Oh, and the answer to the text is

"No, you absolutely definitely cannot come over. You totally creeped me out last night sitting staring at me and it was so obvious that you were being weird that the door guy looked out for me. This needs to stop now. I have blocked you from Facebook as part of this."

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

Posts: 13597 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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comet, you're going to have to tell this guy what unrequited love is and that this is it. That any notion he may have that "If I love her enough, she'll eventually love me" is a load of bollocks (or whatever that is in Alaskan). Tell him he is not by any means unique in this, despite feeling that way. In fact I'll bet most guys on the Ship have been here for a start.

If you don't call a very clear halt to this, it'll bumble along for months, giving him false hopes, giving you the creeps and generally running interference on both your lives.

As others have suggested, don't feel guilt and though you might feel tempted, don't even buy him a drink. He'll only treat it as a positive sign undoing your assertion that it's all over!

Good luck, take courage.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24053 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
rufiki

Ship's 'shroom
# 11165

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Is the door guy single?
Posts: 1561 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Jen.

Godless Liberal
# 3131

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quote:
Originally posted by rufiki:
Is the door guy single?

This.

(I love the ship!)

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Was Jenny Ann, but fancied being more minimal.

Posts: 5318 | From: Manchester, England | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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I find it odd that my earlier post is getting cited, seeing as at least half of it was written to my younger self (he, at least, took "no" for an answer), the rest to some particularly bad philosophy colleagues.

Look, desperation does strange things to your head. Bad things. I've spent (spend?) too much time in the "if I strike out with her, there's a reasonable chance I'll never have ANYTHING" zone to not hear the hypocrite alarm going off when I say anything about dealing with desperate creeps who put all their hopes in "maybe." And yes, I've spent some good quality time in the Bitter Self-Recrimination Zone, where every half-pretty girl you see just reminds you of what a bad person whose ineptitude means you should probably Stay Away you really are. They're bad places, sure, and living in one of them drives you nuts.

Which isn't to say you should feel at all bad about whacking Dr. No over the head with a clue bat. On the whole, you learn a few things living in Recriminationville; Creepland, not so much. Sure, it's entirely understandable why he's being a desperate* little weirdo—what's the male/female ratio in Alaska, 74-3 or something?—but it sure as Hell doesn't excuse it. After all, people spend good quality time studying wars, serial killers, and the Holocaust . . .

*And before I get a fate worse than death visited upon me, I'm not saying someone'd have to be really desperate to be interested in you, Comet—but, if the only thing two people have in common is gender preferences and at least one partner is still going full speed ahead while the other one sees exactly how desirable it would be to get involved in this particular relationship . . .

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

Posts: 6834 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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thanks everyone, you've all helped me so much. I'm giving myself a cooling off period because I got freaked out last night when I wrote the above and everything I could think to say to him was awful. "you're fucking crazy get away from me!" or "you've turned into That Creepy Guy, is that who you want to be? Mister Stay-Away-From-Him-He's-Psycho?"

I haven't responded to his text from last night and thankfully he hasn't sent more, so I suspect he realized he might have crossed a line. Also - one of my door guys has said he's going to have a "father-son style talk" with him. I'll see where things stand tomorrow and then compose a carefully scripted little speech to send to him.

I'm really kind of surprised how much this unnerved me.

Ariston - the 5 men to 1 woman thing is a myth, we're pretty close to 50/50 now. during territorial days it was like that, though. This guy is new here, too, so cabin fever and general bushrat crazyass shouldn't have kicked in yet - he still hasn't even done a full winter. However - he is a pretty nerdy guy - with some lack in the social skills department.

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17022 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333

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<bump so the folks on the Christian dating website Heaven thread can play too, if desired>

I had two, count them two, online dates last week. One was awful. One was good.

We shall see...

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175

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Thanks for the bump infinite monkey!

My current situation is that I've moved to university and attend an Anglo-Catholic church. The Christian Union is pretty unwelcoming for non-evos so me, the (Anglican) chaplain and a couple of others are trying to set up an alternative group. I've definitely moved up the candle faith-wise although I think I'm a little short of full-on Anglo-Catholicism. Still, I am very comfortable with my church and love the smells-and-bells Sung Eucharist every week.

However, predictably, it's mostly made up of retired couples with a few young families. No singles at all. This is OK with me - I really don't like the cattle market atmosphere of 'student' churches and I find Anglo-Catholic/Catholic thinking on singleness so much healthier than evangelical thinking, probably because celibacy in women as well as men is treated as a worthy vocation to aspire to. It just means I can't find a partner at church!

I have been on Christian Connection (a UK-based site which gives you a week or so of free membership) though and having a promising conversation with another post-evangelical not too far away (he is in Bedford, I am in Northampton) - wish me luck! I have no problems with dating an evangelical, fwiw, I just find that they invariably mind dating someone who isn't evangelical. And I'm not. And that's not changing. I don't want to be with someone I have to hide my rosary from!

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I have no problems with dating an evangelical, fwiw, I just find that they invariably mind dating someone who isn't evangelical. And I'm not. And that's not changing. I don't want to be with someone I have to hide my rosary from!

Celebrate your own inclusive mindset and be assured there are other people out there like you. [Smile] By the way, evangelicals from whom you need to hide a rosary can have changes of heart; I am such a one, although it took me 30 years. You may not want to wait that long.

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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.

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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I have no problems with dating an evangelical, fwiw, I just find that they invariably mind dating someone who isn't evangelical. And I'm not. And that's not changing. I don't want to be with someone I have to hide my rosary from!

Celebrate your own inclusive mindset and be assured there are other people out there like you. [Smile] By the way, evangelicals from whom you need to hide a rosary can have changes of heart; I am such a one, although it took me 30 years. You may not want to wait that long.
Heh. I am 23 which I know is very young. I know I don't want to do the done thing for evangelical women ie get married by 25 and preferably have a child by then, and I know I would like to live on my own before I got married (if I get married) - years of living in hostels and in student halls does that to you I think! I am quite a Type A though - I like to be proactive about things. I find it hard to just let things happen. However it is frustrating to see Vineyard type churches full of young single men and my own church having none!

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

Posts: 5314 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged
Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
[QUOTE] I know I don't want to do the done thing for evangelical women ie get married by 25 and preferably have a child by then, and I know I would like to live on my own before I got married (if I get married) - years of living in hostels and in student halls does that to you I think!

[Eek!] I obviously wasn't as evangelical as I thought, then - I didn't get married until I was 26 and had my first child at 29. [Biased]

Very sensible indeed to have some time of independence and knowing that you can manage on your own. I never really did and while I know that if I ever did find myself on my own I'd learn how to cope, I think I'd make rather a mess of things to start with. [Roll Eyes]

Please can I flag up just a tiny defence for church families who try to be inclusive of 25+ aged singles? I've been in situations where it's been formalised (you, Family W, take Single Y under your wing, you will invite him/her to Sunday tea and include him in at least one of your family outings per month) very unsuccessfully and others where it's been left to happen naturally, with a modicum of success. Part of the problem is that everyone seems so busy [Roll Eyes] . Busy Family W consults busy Family Diary and invites Single Y to tea on a certain date. Busy Single Y can't make that date. This happens several times. Family W then thinks it best to let Single Y to say when a good date is. Single Y feels awkward about this and doesn't. Family and Single end up not seeing each other. [Roll Eyes]

Where it works best is when Family and Single live close enough for Single to drop in on Family for brief chats after work and share a coffee and be prepared to be around the kids for teatime and homework, then maybe for Grown Up Tea later in the evening sometimes. [Biased] It is also up to Family not to regard Single as handy babysitter. I've been both Single and Family and that's my experience anyway. [Biased]

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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.

Posts: 1280 | Registered: May 2011  |  IP: Logged
Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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Is it really that closely aligned with being evangelical? I wasn't into evangelicalism but was married by 22 and had my first child at 24, it didn't seem particularly young. Perhaps it's more of a generational thing?

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

Posts: 34566 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710

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I was married at 32 and we had our first child at 33. Definitely not an evangelical.
Posts: 925 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged



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