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Source: (consider it) Thread: A Truth Universally Acknowledged...
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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Evangelicals and conservative Catholics all seem to marry young—due to where I grew up and where I did grad school, I know lots of people in both groups and, well, they're all married. The people I went to not-that-snooty private university with? A few are married, but not that many. The people I've met here in The Big City who went to atheism/socialism/free love liberal arts schools? Even those who have been together six years haven't married. Yes, part of it's generational—my parents were married by 21 and 24—but there definitely seems to be a relationship between religious conservatism (or even religiosity in general!) and early marriage.

Which means that, for people like me who, while not old, are already past their prime church pairing-off years, churches aren't necessarily going to be a great place to meet Someone Special.

--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Hazey*Jane

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# 8754

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quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:
Please can I flag up just a tiny defence for church families who try to be inclusive of 25+ aged singles? I've been in situations where it's been formalised (you, Family W, take Single Y under your wing, you will invite him/her to Sunday tea and include him in at least one of your family outings per month) very unsuccessfully and others where it's been left to happen naturally, with a modicum of success.

Yuk.

I mean, if you really are struggling to make friends, or are, perhaps, new to an area/church then that could be quite nice to be taken under a family's wing. But otherwise it's horribly patronising.

As a long term single with plenty of coupled up friends, I do not wish to be adopted by a couple who decide to bestow some of their family glow on me (Why only that way around? Why does the single person not get to share some of his/her life with the family? Is it less worthwhile?) What's wrong with just noticing and getting to know people and just naturally including them without such a contrived set up?

What I would like is for my existing coupled up friends to remember I exist, and also remember that they can still function as individuals (e.g. I arranged to meet YOU for lunch, so bringing your new girlfriend along without telling/asking me first is a bit rude). I would also like it if normal Catholic parish churches actually welcomed new people rather than just assuming they'll integrate at the school gate etc.

If single people are routinely viewed by church communities as 'other' or anomalous, that's really not a nice thing to be on the end of. And it's pretty dumb given how increasingly common we are.

Hazey

PS. Sorry, I know that was a bit ranty. It wasn't aimed at you, Nenya, just at a general social disparity that makes me feel uncomfortable.

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Horatio Harumph
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quote:
Originally posted by Hazey*Jane:

As a long term single with plenty of coupled up friends, I do not wish to be adopted by a couple who decide to bestow some of their family glow on me (Why only that way around? Why does the single person not get to share some of his/her life with the family? Is it less worthwhile?) What's wrong with just noticing and getting to know people and just naturally including them without such a contrived set up?

What I would like is for my existing coupled up friends to remember I exist, and also remember that they can still function as individuals (e.g. I arranged to meet YOU for lunch, so bringing your new girlfriend along without telling/asking me first is a bit rude). I would also like it if normal Catholic parish churches actually welcomed new people rather than just assuming they'll integrate at the school gate etc.

If single people are routinely viewed by church communities as 'other' or anomalous, that's really not a nice thing to be on the end of. And it's pretty dumb given how increasingly common we are.

Hazey

PS. Sorry, I know that was a bit ranty. It wasn't aimed at you, Nenya, just at a general social disparity that makes me feel uncomfortable. [/QB]

Totally with you there Hazey Jane x

--------------------
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@helen_a13

Chocolate is proof that God wants us to be happy.

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Scots lass
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There seems to be a perception that GLEs get hitched young. Perhaps those who get together in university CUs do, but a huge proportion of the 20s/30s crowd at my very GLE church are single. I certainly wasn't wanting to get married at 23 (I was too busy moving across the country to do my masters, then moving again to get a job a year later) and I don't really want to think that I'm hugely past it at 31!

it can be hard as a single to fit into churches, formal adoption of a person seems a bit much though! Informal works much better and makes you feel more like you belong and people have a genuine interest in you. My small church where I used to live was very good at asking me over (on my own, or with a group of others) and I always thought they just fancied my company, not that I was a project!

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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Might I feed in a possible reason why married-with-kids might not connect easily with singles in church?

In my case - it's the painful realisation that I'm so f*cking old and boring!

To unpack that a little - I became uncomfortably aware that when a couple who used to attend our church married and moved in together, I suddenly found it easier to find things to talk about. I didn't like the idea they might think I now 'approved' - actually, it was that their lives had started to resemble my (boring) own, and we had something in common.

I used to enjoy hanging out with all sorts - but un-calendared hanging went out with kid#1 7 years ago. Now kid#2 is 5, and I guess in theory I could go drinking with strangers in a loud bar...I find myself on special-interest web fora discussing machine tools, obsolete eletronics and penal-substitutionary atonement. Wife and I struggle to find proper awake time together for real communication. You wouldn't want me a dinner invite off me.

--------------------
"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Yangtze
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# 4965

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Massive assumption there that just because someone's single they like/want to hang out in noisy bars. It might be they would love a conversation on the kind of topics you describe face to face with a real person in a quieter place / welcoming home.

--------------------
Arthur & Henry Ethical Shirts for Men
organic cotton, fair trade cotton, linen

Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?

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Hazey*Jane

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Ah now that's the problem I have at the other end of the spectrum.

This is a safe environment so I'm going to come out and say it...

I don't like Pubs.

I know that makes me potentially invalidate my British Nationality status but there you go.

I'm not teetotal, but I drink in moderation and only when I feel like it. Even in my late twenties, this seems to bother people enough to comment on it and make me uncomfortable. While I don't generally comment on other people's drinking (unless harm is imminent), I don't find (very) drunk people as much fun as they think they are. I also get quite stressed in crowded, unpredictable, noisy environments, so I find busy pubs quite uncomfortable.

Unfortunately a lot of social bonding activities take place in pubs. This is true also of extensions to non drinking activities (e.g. the dance class I go to often concludes with a trip to the pub after).

Give me a cafe any day. I might be on my own there though.

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infinite_monkey
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Same here. I sometimes enjoy a drink, but it's never the focus of what I'm doing--I think I've only met a date at a bar once, and that was because the bar had a bocce ball court.

I think there are a lot of folks out there who don't like pubs/bars, even though we're by no means the majority. I like to think we're just a bit of a niche market, that's all.

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

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Pomona
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quote:
Originally posted by Hazey*Jane:
Ah now that's the problem I have at the other end of the spectrum.

This is a safe environment so I'm going to come out and say it...

I don't like Pubs.

I know that makes me potentially invalidate my British Nationality status but there you go.

I'm not teetotal, but I drink in moderation and only when I feel like it. Even in my late twenties, this seems to bother people enough to comment on it and make me uncomfortable. While I don't generally comment on other people's drinking (unless harm is imminent), I don't find (very) drunk people as much fun as they think they are. I also get quite stressed in crowded, unpredictable, noisy environments, so I find busy pubs quite uncomfortable.

Unfortunately a lot of social bonding activities take place in pubs. This is true also of extensions to non drinking activities (e.g. the dance class I go to often concludes with a trip to the pub after).

Give me a cafe any day. I might be on my own there though.

I love proper country pubs but prefer cafes to horrid tacky chain pubs.

--------------------
Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Is it really that closely aligned with being evangelical? I wasn't into evangelicalism but was married by 22 and had my first child at 24, it didn't seem particularly young. Perhaps it's more of a generational thing?

Not so much generational as belief/morality-based.

Evangelicals tend to have a strong disapproval of pre-marital sex so the only solution to raging young hormones is to marry asap.

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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quote:
Massive assumption there that just because someone's single they like/want to hang out in noisy bars.
Sorry - I'm just remembering what I used to like to do in the days I considered myself interesting. If there are any single churchgoers in the NW out there of either gender who would value some company and, specifically, a chance to discuss machine tools, obsolete electronics and PSA, feel free to PM me. Bear in mind I have kids, and if you want to talk it'll need to happen after they go to bed - 8-10pm, after which I fall asleep [Big Grin]

--------------------
"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
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quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:

I used to enjoy hanging out with all sorts - but un-calendared hanging went out with kid#1 7 years ago. Now kid#2 is 5, and I guess in theory I could go drinking with strangers in a loud bar...

It comes back again. Well, it does if you get divorced and then your children grow up. If the choice is between sitting at home on your own and going out somewhere, I'm going out.

I even found (to my mild surprise) that I liked going to football matches, Something that was no part of my life at all till the age of about fifty, and that I would have imagined I would have hated when I was in my teens or twenties. One of the reasons for that is that I do actually quite enjoy being in a large noisy crowd. Loud rock music was also fun back when it was played in places I could afford to get in to and I wasn't old enough to be the guitarist's grandfather... actually its not so much age that stops me going to gigs (folk and jazz do just as well as rock. Even country music at a pinch) as that there just doesn't seem to be a fraction of the live music around that there was a few decades ago. There used to be all sorts of bands playing in pubs and small venues that you could get in to free or cheaply. Much rarer now. And I never was much of a nightclubbing/dancing sort of a person (and even if I had been it woudl be a bit pathetic at my age and weight!)

quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
Massive assumption there that just because someone's single they like/want to hang out in noisy bars. It might be they would love a conversation on the kind of topics you describe face to face with a real person in a quieter place / welcoming home.

But that simply doesn't happen very often. Or at least not if you are a single middle-aged man with a job. Opportunities for socialising are rare, and those that happen late at night. when you least want to be on your own, murch rarer. (The classic answers to "how do I get out and meet people?" are church and evening classes. Well, I spent so much time at church I ended up a preacher. And its not a very social environment. Well, ours isn't anyway. And I've done years of evening classes, ending up with two degrees among other things, and I work in the largest part-time higher-education college in the country - and yes that is an easier environment to meet people than church is, but the actual meeting tends to go on in the bar afterwards, not the class itself, if you just turn up and go home at the end you miss it)

And why are people in pubs not "real people"? Also conversations are easier in pubs and bars in many ways, partly because you aren't in someone else's home, so there is less social pressure . Unless you know the people you are with very well, other people's homes are much less relaxing that public places.

quote:
Originally posted by Hazey*Jane:

Unfortunately a lot of social bonding activities take place in pubs. This is true also of extensions to non drinking activities (e.g. the dance class I go to often concludes with a trip to the pub after).

Give me a cafe any day. I might be on my own there though.

I think that's kind of the point. Pubs are where people go to be with other people. Well, British people anyway. One of the reasons - the main reason I think - that I go to pubs and bars a lot is exactly because they are the only places where people who don't know each other very well do talk to each other. They are comparitively friendly and welcoming. A lot more so than church - there have been times, many times, when I've gone to the pub after a church social event feeling completely frustrated because I haven't talked to anyone at the church do, and then easily managed to get into conversation in the pub. Cafes don't have that chatty atmosphere. Well not in Britain anyway.

quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
... and if you want to talk it'll need to happen after they go to bed - 8-10pm, after which I fall asleep [Big Grin]

Ah, just about the time I'm typically getting home from work! And often going to the pub at 10 or 10.30 because nothing else is happening. And staying out till midnight or so, then going home and watching telly for a bit and maybe eating. After which I fall asleep [Razz]

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Yangtze
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# 4965

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Ken - my comment re talking face to face with a real person was in counterpoint to mark_in_manchester's comment about preferring to chat on the internet on subjects he's interested in, not about people in pubs.

Not that internet people aren't real either of course, but you get my point I hope.

Personally I too like pubs as you are well aware. But I also like going round to my friends who have children's houses and hanging out with them there. Even experiencing family life, not just being entertained once the kids are in bed and the parents knackered.

(I know, you married/partnered with kids people think we're crazy to want to come round at tea-bath-bed time but when it's not every day it's kinda cute. Well sometimes.)

[ 18. October 2012, 16:05: Message edited by: Yangtze ]

--------------------
Arthur & Henry Ethical Shirts for Men
organic cotton, fair trade cotton, linen

Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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quote:
mark_in_manchester's comment about preferring to chat on the internet
In another life, a quiet few pints with interesting people sounds far preferable - and do-able round here, where quiet pubs are fairly easy to find. Wife would come too and babysitters abound - our well behaved kids would delight single friends who would drop in regularly just to be near them.

(In _another_ life, I sit alone at a bare 60W bulb and listlessly push my chicken-ding round a plastic plate. I do count my blessings. Sometimes.)

--------------------
"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:

(I know, you married/partnered with kids people think we're crazy to want to come round at tea-bath-bed time but when it's not every day it's kinda cute. Well sometimes.)

Our kids are well past that stage, but I understand; you can walk away when you've had enough!

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Scots lass
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I just thought I'd give this thread a quick bump, basically so I can despair at it!

Last week a friend and I went to a Christian speed dating event. I had no high hopes, but thought it might be fun and indeed it was - we even ran into two other friends there. The next day my friend got her matches email (yes, no, friend) and got two matches and four friends. Mine didn't come through until Monday and when it did I got two friends matches. Which means that out of 12 guys, none of them were interested in me. Admittedly, I knew one of them well already and I also said no to two, but that's still 9 rejections. I thought I was being friendly and nice, I didn't talk too much (which I sometimes do) and I have no idea what I did wrong. I can only conclude that it's my face that's wrong, but I can't do anything about that.

It's done nothing for my (already not high) self-esteem and I feel disinclined to try anything like that again, which means I'm not quite sure what to do now. I don't want to be single forever, although I'm not desperate to get hitched, but if every attempt I make to even meet new people leads to rejection then what am I meant to do [Frown] ?

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Surfing Madness
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# 11087

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quote:
Originally posted by Scots lass:
I don't want to be single forever, although I'm not desperate to get hitched, but if every attempt I make to even meet new people leads to rejection then what am I meant to do [Frown] ?

I know what you mean. I have no advice, but am also just here to moan! I'm despairing of how to even meet any possibilities.
[Help]

--------------------
I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk

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Mad Cat
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Poor you Scots Lass! As a veteran of speed and online dating I can sympathise.

The way I see it, with organised dating situations, you have to play the odds. I persevered with internet dating for about 6 months, and during that time met a couple of people I would have seen again, but who weren't keen on me. Conversely, there were a couple of guys who were keen to see me again, but that I wasn't fashed with. That same situation is evident at a speed dating event, but speeded up!

Also, it's only 9 guys. Think of them standing in your average bar to put it in perspective.

I'm in a quandry over someone I met briefly in the Summer. Our mutual friend is having a cocktail party soon and we are both invited. I don't know if he'll go. I sent him a text asking him out when we met (see up thread possibly?), but got no reply so I don't even know if he was really keen as I thought he was. Men my age are usually single for all of 5 minutes, so he may show up with a girlfriend. I also remember him having an annoying laugh, so I might just be getting angst-y for no reason whatsoever.

But at least there's something on the horizon. There's nothing worse than there being no prospects at all!

--------------------
Weird and sweary.

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Pomona
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# 17175

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No help but plenty of sympathy, Scots Lass. It's not helped by having literally no single friends - all the other fellow freshers at CU have coupled up now [Roll Eyes] Considering ordination as I am, the idea of being called to celibacy (not that people in secular jobs aren't also called to that) is feeling like a possibility, albeit a terrifying one. I love that my church is full of old people for this reason actually, it means I avoid the cattle market atmosphere of CU and the local evangelical churches.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Hazey*Jane

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# 8754

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quote:
Originally posted by Scots lass:
Mine didn't come through until Monday and when it did I got two friends matches. Which means that out of 12 guys, none of them were interested in me. Admittedly, I knew one of them well already and I also said no to two, but that's still 9 rejections. I thought I was being friendly and nice, I didn't talk too much (which I sometimes do) and I have no idea what I did wrong. I can only conclude that it's my face that's wrong, but I can't do anything about that.

Or the other way you can think of it is out of a bunch of strangers, two decided that you had something about you that made them want to be your friend. Don't knock it. Equally, the guys you rejected might not even have had any 'friend' matches at all. Don't forget, by definition, all the other people in the room were also single (one hopes!) and have thus not met the right person. There's no reason to conclude there is anything 'wrong' with you - just that you didn't click with a mere dozen people.

So, don't turn up your nose at the 'friend' connections. Who knows where it may lead? Besides, they may have some other cute single friends you'll meet. [Biased]

.............

As for me, the older I get, the more I'm wondering whether I'm unsuited to relationships. It's been a very long time since I was in anything remotely like a conventional one (and even that was sort of long distance), but I'm really very comfortable. I was thoroughly miserable a couple of years back, living in a place where I had plenty of friends but they never really had time for me. I started life over elsewhere for work reasons, but socially it's been great, as the people I've made friends with have actually got the time to admit another person into their lives. Now I have more sustaining friendships, I feel a lot more relaxed about whether or not I'm single.

I found this article and the reader responses very interesting. Quite a few points resonated. Anyone else?

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infinite_monkey
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# 11333

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quote:
Originally posted by Surfing Madness:
quote:
Originally posted by Scots lass:
I don't want to be single forever, although I'm not desperate to get hitched, but if every attempt I make to even meet new people leads to rejection then what am I meant to do [Frown] ?

I know what you mean. I have no advice, but am also just here to moan! I'm despairing of how to even meet any possibilities.
[Help]

I hear you both. It's maddening, isn't it? The thing I have to keep reminding myself is the numbers game thing that Mad Cat so deftly references. I kind of think of a gumball machine, and there are, say, four licorice gumballs and 96 lemon ones. Some people, it seems like, get the licorice ones straight out, and it's easy enough to get smug about that. But it's a freakin' gumball machine.

I know a lot of people who just got, well, lucky: the person they met first, under the same exact set of circumstances under which I've met a decent number of people, happened to be the person things worked out with. I ain't among those lucky people. And there are bits of my 'luck' that have to do with my choices and my self-presentation, but there are also bits of my luck that just seem like dumb luck.

For whatever reason, the undoubtedly dozens of folks you would have connected with were just not at that speed date. Maybe a couple of them will be at another one. Maybe one of them will connect with you somewhere else.

Does that make sense?

--------------------
His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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Oh, it makes sense all right, it just sucks that I keep getting nasty gumballs.

So, this is the kind of thing I really try not to talk about—it gets really tiresome really fast—but this whole dating thing sucks festering monkey balls. I realize that trying to find someone—anyone—just so you never have to find another "someone" ever again is probably not a good nor a healthy thing to do, but I've tried it more than once and, despite past experiences, despite learning, despite Knowing Better, am almost to the point of trying it again. I don't care that it ends up with me finding myself next to someone I'm not attracted to at all, who has no sense of adventure, and has perhaps twenty books of any kind in her whole entire house, at least it's someone female. Sometimes, that's good enough for a date or two or four months. You may spend three of those months looking for someone—anyone—else, but hey, you also know you won't find anyone else, so it's not actually cheating.

And so I try Online Hell. Message ten girls, put yourself out there, try to think of something witty or interesting to say, and get one response—who, after three messages, stops talking. After seventy of these, you get a date, but, really, it doesn't go so well, neither of you are feeling it. That one girl you met six months back? She freaked out because she wasn't ready to be in a relationship (or was it just that you seemed too much like a "relationship" guy? Or was she just lying to spare your feelings), just like the last three.

At this point, other girls's issues are giving me issues. It's kinda scary.

And so, I turn bitter, and try to reconcile myself to the likely future. Everyone I knew in high school is getting married. People I knew in college are getting married. My college (now ex) girlfriend is posting engagement photos (oh how that one just hurts—why not me as well?). And I, much as I try and fight it, slowly turn into That One Guy who hits on every girl he meets, just because she might be the last. I know it comes from being in a bad place, from being like a starving man trying to eat as much before the lean times come again, but still, it's not right. It's wrong to treat other people that way. Plus, who am I to try and chat up some attractive girl? I'm not that much to look at myself—at is "pretty" really something worth taking into consideration?

Blech. I really don't mean to sound so bitter. I mean, I know I actually am, but I try not to let it seep out. Sometimes I hope that, if I can only get a paying job (rather than a job I pay to do), my luck might change, but there are plenty of employed people with no luck out there—and anyway, employment isn't coming any time soon.

This one just plain sucks. Sorry about the rant, y'alls. I'll try to be cheerier elsewhere.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

Posts: 6834 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
infinite_monkey
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# 11333

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Rant away. I actually appreciate hearing another person diss on internet dating (though my preference is to state that it sucks "festering mongoose balls", as I'm partial to all things monkey.)

I think the negativity's gotta go somewhere, and if this forum can sop a bit of it up, we'll all be much cheerier in Face to Face Land.

Where my current problem is an insane inability to stop thinking about the thing that didn't work out, to the point where I'm much less emotionally available to the things that could. It's like my brain has this one little synapse that keeps firing, constantly reminding me of things that remind me of the person, constantly keeping me connected in a way that I really don't think I should stay connected. And I don't really know how to fix it.

Grr argh.

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His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.

--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com

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comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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I hear you guys. online dating - my extremely minimal experience with it - sucks ass. too artificial. I made a profile, it was up for less than a week and I killed the profile when all of these men "near to me" (alaskan men can be a little... homespun?) were sending me pictures of their trucks or talking about threesomes with their wives. not my bag.

And Ariston, I know where you're at right now. I was there for awhile, too. I can't tell you everything will come together because I'm still single myself. but I can say that that desperation grabby feeling can pass. I'm in a better place. regular sex would be nice, and a partner to share adventures with would be nice, but not something I'm willing to compromise for. And being single isn't the end of the world - it does require a change of view, however. and that's hard. All I can say is one step in front of another and work towards putting yourself in a better place and being where you want to be. a woman is more likely to find that attractive, anyway. and meanwhile, you'll be happier, too.

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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daisydaisy
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# 12167

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
..... Considering ordination as I am, the idea of being called to celibacy (not that people in secular jobs aren't also called to that) is feeling like a possibility, albeit a terrifying one. .....

Now that's an interesting point, possibly warranting a thread of its own. Surely if you are called to celibacy it shouldn't be a terrifying possibility. I am a (very) long term single, not out of choice, and I am certainly not called to celibacy - it just happens to come with the state I find that I am in. I'm open to changing that state but I'm less focussed on finding someone (having Speed Dated and Online Dated) as, on the whole, I now enjoy being single.
Posts: 3177 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
Mad Cat
Shipmate
# 9104

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((Ariston))

Be angry. Rage over it. I've shouted at God many a time: when's it my turn??!

Your passion does you credit. If you weren't angry, you'd be giving in. Never give in. Give it all to God.

One of the stories on the BBC site really resonated with me. A woman said she was single partly by choice and partly by circumstance. There are two good men I could have married, but I wasn't physically attracted to them. I grieved over my lack of attraction, as I love both of them as friends. Now one is marrying and I realise I did the right thing, because she loves him the way he deserves to be loved.

So that was my choice. Circumstance has not brought me into contact with lots of single straight men: illness, having to move, anglo-catholicism......

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Weird and sweary.

Posts: 1842 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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I took this off to Purgatory to discuss some of the ideas and implications.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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ArachnidinElmet
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# 17346

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I hear you guys. online dating - my extremely minimal experience with it - sucks ass.

Mm, I've never tried online dating as it doesn't hold any appeal at all. I realise others have had success, but the only friend of mine who met her partner through t'interweb: well there's no nice non-shallow way of saying this. The guy looks like she found him online dating. I think you know what I'm saying.

Anyway, can I ask a question. To those of you who are practising Christians and looking for partners. Are you actively looking for a Christian partner? Personally, Christian singles nights sound like my idea of hell (actually singles nights of any kind). But really I'm being hypocritical. I'm one, as are many of my friends. Why do I think that any one I meet is going to be a crackpot?

Mind you, you could think yourself into knots about this sort of thing.

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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by daisydaisy:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
..... Considering ordination as I am, the idea of being called to celibacy (not that people in secular jobs aren't also called to that) is feeling like a possibility, albeit a terrifying one. .....

Now that's an interesting point, possibly warranting a thread of its own. Surely if you are called to celibacy it shouldn't be a terrifying possibility. I am a (very) long term single, not out of choice, and I am certainly not called to celibacy - it just happens to come with the state I find that I am in. I'm open to changing that state but I'm less focussed on finding someone (having Speed Dated and Online Dated) as, on the whole, I now enjoy being single.
Well, I find that God calls us to plenty that is terrifying.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by ArachnidinElmet:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I hear you guys. online dating - my extremely minimal experience with it - sucks ass.

Mm, I've never tried online dating as it doesn't hold any appeal at all. I realise others have had success, but the only friend of mine who met her partner through t'interweb: well there's no nice non-shallow way of saying this. The guy looks like she found him online dating. I think you know what I'm saying.

Anyway, can I ask a question. To those of you who are practising Christians and looking for partners. Are you actively looking for a Christian partner? Personally, Christian singles nights sound like my idea of hell (actually singles nights of any kind). But really I'm being hypocritical. I'm one, as are many of my friends. Why do I think that any one I meet is going to be a crackpot?

Mind you, you could think yourself into knots about this sort of thing.

I've tried not actively looking for a Christian partner and haven't had any more luck so yes, I am actively looking for a Christian partner - that was always the ideal but the fact that it doesn't alter my chances means I now may as well exclusively look for a Christian partner.

As for the attractiveness of people using online dating, I've found online dating not much help but there are certainly plenty of attractive people there, whatever you find attractive. My best friend met her husband there and he is perfectly attractive. I guess it depends on what you want.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Cat:
((Ariston))

Be angry. Rage over it. I've shouted at God many a time: when's it my turn??!

Your passion does you credit. If you weren't angry, you'd be giving in. Never give in. Give it all to God.

One of the stories on the BBC site really resonated with me. A woman said she was single partly by choice and partly by circumstance. There are two good men I could have married, but I wasn't physically attracted to them. I grieved over my lack of attraction, as I love both of them as friends. Now one is marrying and I realise I did the right thing, because she loves him the way he deserves to be loved.

So that was my choice. Circumstance has not brought me into contact with lots of single straight men: illness, having to move, anglo-catholicism......

Also ((Ariston)), I empathise with a lot of that post.

I am having a lot of that, I find. I do know some single men (not friends as such - from Christian Union and the organist at church who is surprisingly young) but am not attracted to any of them, or the man from the Christian dating site I had a date with. I keep wondering if it's me being shallow, but it's mostly not to do with looks. It's just a lack of....something.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by daisydaisy:
. Surely if you are called to celibacy it shouldn't be a terrifying possibility.

Evangelicals tend not to talk about "celibacy" much (except maybe for gays) but I've often read stupid books or heard patrronising preachers drivel on about being "called to singleness" or "the gift of singleness" and to be honest it makes me want to push red-hot iron wires slowly into their skulls. A lack isn't a gift, and if you you want something you can't have it does you no good to hear a pompous lying fart try to tell you that you are better off for not having it (even if that happened to be true)

But what is true is that there are many millions of people who will never have a marriage, or a lifelong sexual partner, however much they want one, or even any sexual life at all, for all sorts of reasons. NowiIt might really be that God is calling all of them to celibacy - but if so it is going to be terrifying and depressing, feel deeply unnatural for many of them.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175

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I just wish all my friends would stop getting married/engaged.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by daisydaisy:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
..... Considering ordination as I am, the idea of being called to celibacy (not that people in secular jobs aren't also called to that) is feeling like a possibility, albeit a terrifying one. .....

Now that's an interesting point, possibly warranting a thread of its own. Surely if you are called to celibacy it shouldn't be a terrifying possibility. I am a (very) long term single, not out of choice, and I am certainly not called to celibacy - it just happens to come with the state I find that I am in. I'm open to changing that state but I'm less focussed on finding someone (having Speed Dated and Online Dated) as, on the whole, I now enjoy being single.
Well, I find that God calls us to plenty that is terrifying.
Only if it is to help us have abundant life. Not if it limits us.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by daisydaisy:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
..... Considering ordination as I am, the idea of being called to celibacy (not that people in secular jobs aren't also called to that) is feeling like a possibility, albeit a terrifying one. .....

Now that's an interesting point, possibly warranting a thread of its own. Surely if you are called to celibacy it shouldn't be a terrifying possibility. I am a (very) long term single, not out of choice, and I am certainly not called to celibacy - it just happens to come with the state I find that I am in. I'm open to changing that state but I'm less focussed on finding someone (having Speed Dated and Online Dated) as, on the whole, I now enjoy being single.
Well, I find that God calls us to plenty that is terrifying.
Only if it is to help us have abundant life. Not if it limits us.
Do you think celibacy is limiting though? God calls people to the religious/contemplative life and calls them to celibacy as part of that. I don't think they'd find it limiting.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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I am 36, I had a relationship with a bloke once at university for a couple of months. It didn't work out, at that point I hadn't realised I was gay.

That is my entire relationship history. I am coming around to the idea that I'll just break out in cats when I turn 40. (I already have one, he might object, in which case I intend to break out in eccentric coats and chocolate spread.)

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
I am 36, I had a relationship with a bloke once at university for a couple of months. It didn't work out, at that point I hadn't realised I was gay.

That is my entire relationship history. I am coming around to the idea that I'll just break out in cats when I turn 40. (I already have one, he might object, in which case I intend to break out in eccentric coats and chocolate spread.)

I cannot wait to be allowed to wear an eccentric coat [Smile]

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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why wait?

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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You could become eccentric aunts. You know, the sort that is regarded as a bad influence by overprotective parents.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
You could become eccentric aunts. You know, the sort that is regarded as a bad influence by overprotective parents.

I don't want children so I am happy to be just an aunt anyway [Smile] My only sibling doesn't want them either though...

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
# 10422

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Nephew and nieces don't have to be biological. I am sure that your friends will enjoy honorary aunties.

[Big Grin] There is great scope for mayhem there. And you can hand them back at the end of the day.

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Even more so than I was before

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comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I cannot wait to be allowed to wear an eccentric coat [Smile]

my "why wait?" comment above was just a silly off-the-cuff, but I want to add - I mean it.

When I was your age, Jade, I saw all this fun, non-conforming stuff that my eccentric aunts (mother, father uncles, grandparents) did and I wished I could do that too. I even put it off, in my mind, for that someday in the far future when it would somehow be okay.

My 20s and early 30s were full of trying to be normal (and feeling like a total failure at it) while wishing I could embrace the eccentric.

then essentially in one year my world kind of caved in. I was diagnosed with MS, my career ended, my marriage ended, my best friend, grandmother, and sister all died. I came to a conclusion somewhere in all that mess that "someday" wasn't okay. I may not have my "someday". So over time I decided to take my someday and use it now.

I don't wear eccentric coats, that's not my bag. clothing isn't where I find eccentric*. But I do make a concerted effort to be ME. every day. So I do theater now, even though the pay is crap it's so much more of who I am. The kids and I have Midnight Cooking Nights - I get up, crank up some dancing music, and we make cookies or breakfast or whatever and have a blast. I arrange Guerrilla theater events as well as other odd things that tickle my fancy. and I sing. and dance. and speak my mind. And I'm not even 40 yet.

Geez, girl, don't wait. You'll feel so much better if you wear that eccentric coat NOW. and if you really want to find a partner that is right for YOU - who you really are - you need to be you. There's some guy out there looking for the girl with the eccentric coat.

*well, mostly. sometimes it is. I've been known to costume up for no apparent reason.

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17022 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
[Big Grin] There is great scope for mayhem there. And you can hand them back at the end of the day.

yes, just ask Uncle Pete. I'm sure if he were closer he'd be doing his best to corrupt my children. They already speak with fondness of their Uncle Pete whom they have yet to meet. He's a master at spreading his Eccentric Uncle Mayhem far and wide. And it all started with some innocent postcards.

( [Axe murder] )

[ 15. November 2012, 00:54: Message edited by: comet ]

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424

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I am single and unpartnered for now - even though I live with my ex- and his wife - and I am uncle to a whole village full of kids - it is wonderful!

I agree with comet, the best way to be yourself is to be yourself in all your glory and let God take care of you meeting people!

The thing is God wants you to be yourself - it is society that isn't comfortable with the concept - and society often thinks it is God, but it ain't!

Go get that red hat that doesn't go - today!

--------------------
I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details

What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?

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Surfing Madness
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# 11087

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:



Geez, girl, don't wait. You'll feel so much better if you wear that eccentric coat NOW. and if you really want to find a partner that is right for YOU - who you really are - you need to be you. There's some guy out there looking for the girl with the eccentric coat.


I'm mid 30's, and am still not sure who me is. Most people I know already think I am eccentric, and live on another planet, and that's with me making an effort to try and at least appear to be vaguely normal to start with.

I agree with what is said upthread, being an honorary auntie is great. I'm unlikely to have children, and my brother is also showing no signs, but I am an "auntie" like figure to many of my friends children, which I love.

--------------------
I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk

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comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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quote:
Originally posted by Surfing Madness:
I'm mid 30's, and am still not sure who me is.

oh hell, me neither. it's all about who you are at the current moment. subject to change without notice.

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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Edging slightly back towards the topic of the thread, there can be a problem that the period in which you are most disposed to want/form a lasting relationship (teens and twenties) is also when you coming to an awareness of who you are as an individual. And that can mean rejecting expectations and assumptions you grew up with, and even ones you think you have espoused.

Or in other words, the person you are then may not be the person you will become - which may come as a shock to anyone who married the person you were.

I am very grateful that in my pious youth I remained single - though it made me very unhappy at the time. You would search with both hands for a fortnight to find a worse candidate for Christian Wife and Mother.

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Surfing Madness
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# 11087

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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by Surfing Madness:
I'm mid 30's, and am still not sure who me is.

oh hell, me neither. it's all about who you are at the current moment. subject to change without notice.
That makes me feel better. Though I echo what Firenze says about changing and if we are with someone them not necessarily understanding the person we become. As I become more and more aware of how much I change the more I think how can I ever meet anyone who would be ok with any future me? That said at the moment I am in a place where the idea of staying single, may well happen, but isn't what I would want. I need to somehow work out that both being single or with someone would be ok. As at the moment neither seem to be ok!

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I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk

Posts: 1542 | From: searching for the jam | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Lucia

Looking for light
# 15201

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And of course there is also the fact that if you meet someone they too may change as they develop in different ways through their own self discovery and development. You also need to be OK with a future them!
It just proves really that no relationship is static, more like finding a way to dance through life together, side by side, sometimes holding on to each other tightly, sometimes with spaces between you while you both do different moves. But giving each other the space to dance while at the same time supporting and coordinating with each other.

And just to add there are some wonderful solo dancers! You don't have to dance with a partner.

To echo what was said upthread from the other side, one of the most special people in my children's lives is one of my single friends who fulfills the role of slightly eccentric 'aunt' who is happy to do wacky things with them. She is a very intelligent woman who does interesting and sometimes unusual things in her own life. I think she is an excellent role model to show that you don't have to be married/partnered to have an interesting and fulfilling life. My kids have a great relationship with her and I know she is very fond of them. She is an adopted part of our family as well as being one of my closest friends.

Posts: 1066 | From: Nigh golden stone and spires | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged
leo
Shipmate
# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by daisydaisy:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
..... Considering ordination as I am, the idea of being called to celibacy (not that people in secular jobs aren't also called to that) is feeling like a possibility, albeit a terrifying one. .....

Now that's an interesting point, possibly warranting a thread of its own. Surely if you are called to celibacy it shouldn't be a terrifying possibility. I am a (very) long term single, not out of choice, and I am certainly not called to celibacy - it just happens to come with the state I find that I am in. I'm open to changing that state but I'm less focussed on finding someone (having Speed Dated and Online Dated) as, on the whole, I now enjoy being single.
Well, I find that God calls us to plenty that is terrifying.
Only if it is to help us have abundant life. Not if it limits us.
Do you think celibacy is limiting though? God calls people to the religious/contemplative life and calls them to celibacy as part of that. I don't think they'd find it limiting.
I agree. My point is that some have celibacy thrust upon them by the views of others. if it limits them, then it isn't a genuine call for them.

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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

Posts: 23073 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged



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