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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: chasing the Black Dog - a depression support thread
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
Don't know if its SAD but feel I have just sunk into a deep deep black hole. Simply can't be bothered about anything anymore. Feel that as my 82nd birthday approaches I'm just a waste of space.
The fact its dark grey and cold outside, might have something to do with it, but I doubt it.
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
Nicodemia, I hope this is an encouragement to you. Some years ago as a secret Santa, I think, you sent me a book. You would remember the book, I guess. Accompanying it were some lovely photos you had taken locally of an area quite different to anything down here.They were ingeniously put together for display and I still have them.
I have moved on past the book and I guess you possibly would say the same. However the gift was a real encouragement to me at a difficult time in my life, just as other downunder Shippies were also an encouragement. I appreciated your input into the gift and the photos.
So thank you. I send you best wishes and encouragement at a dark time in your life, just as you sent to me,even if you did not know much about me.
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
Nicodemia please discuss this with your doctor, I think a blood test might reveal a lack of something somewhere that is addressable.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
Thank you WW and Doone, and you especially Lothlorien. Yes, I remember the book, but not the photos! But I am delighted they helped.
Did some very brisk gardening this morning, and found that what they say about exercise helping, is true. At least for the moment. Ibuprofen gel to the small of my back also helped!
Now I am going to try and not plunge down into the danger zone again, even if I am still very depressed.
Thank you for your much needed prayers.
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
((Nicodemia)) and ((Martin60))
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Prayers ascending for all on here, especially Nicodemia and Martin60.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
{{{{everyone}}}}
Nicodemia, PLEASE see a doctor and/or a therapist.
I've got SAD, and some other forms of depression and anxiety. It took me a long time to be willing to try meds, and I almost didn't make it through until then.
It took a while longer for everyone to figure out that I needed other meds for SAD. I would get into a deep hole, and couldn't get out of it. IANAD and this is purely as information: Lamictal/Lamotrigine has helped enormously. It isn't a perfect solution, and I periodically need to adjust the dosage. BUT I rarely get into that deep hole. Sometimes a shallower one, but that's a huge improvement.
Again, IANAD, but you might check with your doctor about meds.
Best of luck!
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I've got SAD, and it takes both meds and a light box to make things 80% decent. Mr. Lamb wants us to move back to California, but we can't afford it.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Here I suppose. As in where to post my sudden tears of helplessness for Haiti. I don't know what to do. I just cry. Saying it. Where's the best donation site? Who's on the ground there?
This seems to me an entirely sane response.
{Martin60}
{Nicodemia}
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
I've had a lightbox (well, by now in fact several of them...) since the year 2000. At the beginning, I used to sit in front of them, or do some chores nearby.
Now, I often feel less the need for that sort of intensity, but I've got one in the big, long corridor, where it quite literally turns night into day, if I choose so! The natural aspect of the lightbox is so powerful that I automatically think, 'wow, the sun's out, it's going to be a lovely, bright, beautiful day.' - It is really amazing.
So lightboxes do work. I love 'em! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
I don't think its SAD. Its a lovely bright day and I feel utterly black.
AND I have to go out and take a class in Creative Writing. I hope they feel more creative than I do!
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Fredegund
Shipmate
# 17952
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Posted
Same here - only no creative writing. Trying to work despite feels like an attempt at constructive dismissal. No details - can't - but no confidence left. Feel like going out as a cleaner - at least something looks different after that.
I'm too old for this sort of malarkey. Can't they let me retire with some dignity?
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Pax et bonum
Posts: 117 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Jan 2014
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Nicodemia
WYSIWYG
# 4756
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Posted
Trying not to burst into tears over slightest thing! If I start I don't know where it will all end.
Maybe I should go into the garden and cut something down?
Posts: 4544 | From: not too far from Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
A bit of gentle gardening is a Good Idea. I speak as one who knows how beneficial it can be...
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I'm no gardener, but I reckon with a little tweaking, BF's idea would work - doing something creative, be it cooking, knitting or whatever.
I don't suffer from real, clinical depression, but I'll certainly admit to feeling a bit low at the moment (unsold house, Finance Monster - you get the idea) and I find making soup or baking bread will at least temporarily make me feel a bit better.
And eating them will make me feel a little better still ... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Piglet is right - anything creative, needing the use of hands and head...again, I know whereof I speak.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Piglet is right - anything creative, needing the use of hands and head...again, I know whereof I speak.
IJ
I'll back that. A good friend at work has a whole array of PTSD, bipolar and anxiety state, plus the meds and therapy all of which make his condition(s) hard to handle. He finds that walking the dog, volunteering in schools and baking enables him to continue working, earning and coping in general.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Fredegund
Shipmate
# 17952
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Posted
Yes, it can be helpful. But not when I've done something horrible to my shoulder as well.
Tho' tempted to cut down an overgrown tree, having first named it after the source of the constructive dismissal.
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Pax et bonum
Posts: 117 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Jan 2014
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Perhaps it's best to wait until your shoulder is better...
...or perhaps employ someone else to cut down the tree, whilst you stand by and cheerfully shout opprobrious epithets? Very therapeutic.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
Would it burn your house down if you set fire to the tree? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
On a minimalist note, how about writing down what you think of the opprobrious people and ceremonially burning that?
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
That is a great idea Jacobsen. A few months after leaving my husband and moving in with eldest son and his wife, I spent a rainy afternoon alone in the house writing. Pages upon pages. No theme or developed ideas, just writing. When I had finished i did not re-read it as I would have for a theology essay or similar. I took the pages outside in the rain and burnt each one till there was nothing but ash. It was very therapeutic
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Fredegund
Shipmate
# 17952
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Posted
Once had a ceremonial funeral for various papers relating to the source of the depression. Buried in a hot water tank (I hasten to add it is now used as a planter), a couple of dead mice courtesy of the cats, and it now holds a rather impressive jasmine-of-sorts.
Perhaps I should do that again. I have a tree peony that still hasn't been planted.
Posts: 117 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Jan 2014
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
I'd watch that tree peony. Mine had obvious designs on world domination.
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
Not doing too well today
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
The world seems like an incredibly hostile place. I'm feeling deeply anxious and afraid.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
EM
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I'm not coping today, and I don't know why I can't get a fucking grip. We have a church fund raiser tonight and I will find a grip somewhere on the 10 minute walk to church. I'll be all smiley and no one will guess that there's anything wrong. I will be the picture perfect cheerful Christian. So I know I can do it, though the effort may well mean that when I get back home I will be shaking and sick.
I don't understand why I can get a grip and present as ok to other people in RL, but I fall apart at home. I know (I'm not stupid) that going out for a Brisk Walk, would be one way of getting a grip right now, but then I'd have to come home again.
It's 17 years ago today since my third child died, and tomorrow it'll be 17 years ago since he was born and I know, I know, that a third child is just greedy, and my two wonderful children should be enough, should be more than enough. And they are.
Seventeen years ago I was pulling up my big girl panties and dealing. My husband was only entitled to two days off work for a birth, so when I thought there was no movement we didn't want to squander any part of those two days on him coming with me to check, so I drove to the midwife alone and was alone when I was told there was no heartbeat. And I dealt with it. No tears, no fuss, just autopilot onto the stillbirth plan. Husband left work as soon as I phoned to tell him, so he drove me home.
And David was born on a Saturday, so my husband still had a day's paternity in hand which he used so that we could register the stillbirth together and go to the undertaker together. But I had to get a grip and do lot of the other stuff alone. After my first two were born, I think I spent the first week in my PJs, lounging around, but I had to be up and presentably dressed for appointments after three days and driving alone to e.g. the undertakers four days after giving birth. And I did. My husband got one day off work for the funeral.
And people were lovely. The house was full of flowers and cards and kind messages. The hospital staff were wonderful. Our minister was great. I coped really, really well. I didn't need anti-depressants. It took months for my milk to dry up; my body literally wept milk for my lost baby, for months afterwards, but my brain was super-cool. I was stronger than I'd realised I could be.
Why, seventeen years later, am I still getting bouts of shaking and crying? Which I can switch off if need be, and I will tonight. I just can't switch it off permanently. When will the bad dreams and disturbed sleep stop? Why is it all still so vivid around the anniversary?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
(Husband has just arrived home early, because he was worried about me )
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Do you need to get a grip? Can you not just weep your heart out for as long as it takes and stuff the church fundraiser?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by North East Quine:
quote:
It's 17 years ago today since my third child died, and tomorrow it'll be 17 years ago since he was born and I know, I know, that a third child is just greedy, and my two wonderful children should be enough, should be more than enough. And they are.
Hey, David was precious and you should totally mourn him and you can do that with absolutely no disrespect to your other children.
And if you need to do that today, what Firenze said.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Do you need to get a grip? Can you not just weep your heart out for as long as it takes and stuff the church fundraiser?
Amen.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
NEQ - I have a friend who lost her baby 40 years ago and can still weep for her. I don't think you ever stop feeling it, and why should you? Give way. And bless your husband. ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
[ 04. November 2016, 21:28: Message edited by: jacobsen ]
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
((NEQ))
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
NEQ, I should imagine it would be less natural if you didn't feel the loss (and the memory of the whole experience, which must have been very difficult), and it doesn't demean your love for your other children in any way whatsoever.
for you, North East Man and your children, and for the soul of David.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
I absolutely agree with everything said so far - you absolutely have the right to weep and mourn and even to be irascible, if that is what it takes.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
If I knew how to weep it out, believe me, I would. Instead this odd, disassociated feeling descends, with quite vivid flashbacks. Yesterday I was drying myself off after my shower and realised my hair felt weird. I'd lost track of what I was doing and got out of the shower half way through washing my hair. I had to get back in and start again.
The advantage of having something like last night's church event is that I can make the effort to hold it together (though "getting a grip" half way to church turned out to be too late. Once I was in church I realised I felt physically odd and then realised I'd managed to get dressed without putting underwear on.)
I'd rather cry than be a wreck who can't focus enough to a) shower and b) get dressed but I can't fathom out how to do it.
Today will be ok, because my husband has planned out a day (cemetery, ice cream, lunch with daughter) and I don't have to think.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
It is still grief. Just because it manifests itself as thing that sucks your heart and mind back into the past, rather than as tears, does not make it less so. This is not something you feel instead of sorrow; this is how sorrow feels.
I say this as more of a re-visitor than a weeper myself.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
NEQ
Are you aware of the stages of grief? Normally they are unhelpful apart from to show that grief is a process. However, here I want to draw your attention to the first stage which is unhelpfully often called denial. I chose that listing simply because it also refers to it as "shock". The denial may be of the need to grieve rather than the nature of grief and in this is more related to clinical shock, a state where the emotional pain system retracts to allow you to cope with life.
From personal experience, you can remain in such a state for weeks, even months. Now go look back at your writing. The early days seem to me to be more you not being ready to grieve (it would be too overwhelming) than that you were particularly strong. It might even be that you felt the need to keep things going for your other two children and now as they leave home you feel you, at last, have the space to grieve.
Oh for the record I rarely weep with grief, I do get claustrophobia.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
NEQ - I'm so sorry for your loss.
What happened to you was a big thing, however calmly you took it at the time. And anniversaries can be difficult.
What you feel is perfectly natural - yes, even years later. People don't work to a timetable on grief: there's no set pattern on what form it takes, either. Grief can mutate into a variety of different forms, and flashbacks are one of them. I'd suggest talking to someone who may be able to help you through these.
Firenze said earlier, "This is not something you feel instead of sorrow; this is how sorrow feels." Spot on.
Take care of yourself.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
NEQ, I too am sorry for your loss and feel for you.
Your feelings are valid for you and how you handle them is for you. None of us knows how we will respond to momentous occasions in life, until they actually happen. If something helps you, then do it.
As to stages of grief, it is now widely recognised that they are not a continuum. It is perfectly possible to be in multiple stages at any one time, so no one should feel guilty about not conforming to what was once regarded as a right and due process. Not only that, but we all react differently. Jenny gets claustrophobia. I get panic attacks and really weird and unpleasant dreams. Others will have different reactions.
I do not mean by this that it is OK to start a long list of different reactions here. This thread is not about that but about supporting others in their particular need at the time, regardless of how they handle things. Even just a statement of our sympathy and concern is better than what may be read as overbearing advice.
Can we all make sure our posts are support, not education. Anything else will be jumped on.
Thank you.
Lothlorien (AS Host)
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
My nephew Andrew would be the same age as my university-aged daughter, had he not lived for 3 days then died.
In strange moments, I think of him, and kneeling by his graveside throwing dirt onto his tiny coffin, and thinking "We'll never fill this hole." And so it's proved. You just have to learn to live with the fact of the hole, and cope with it in your own way.
All the best, NEQ. God bless.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
NEQ, your reactions sound perfectly normal and fine. I'm not one who can weep it out either. And I did the dissociation thing for years after my father died. I'm so sorry, wish I could help.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Jengie, thank you. My midwife discussed the denial thing in advance, when I drew up my birth plan. There had been studies showing that women who had a lot of pain relief in labour with a stillbirth had more problems with denial, so we aimed for me to be in as much physical pain as possible when giving birth, which worked for me but was grim for the North East Man.
At the time, stillbirth wasn't the worst outcome. The scans showed that David had a restricted rib cage, which was the part of his condition which meant he was life limited. His heart and lungs couldn't develop fully. Some babies with his condition are born alive but can't take their first breath because their rib cage is too small. So they are born and then their parents hold them as they struggle to breathe and then die. I had a birth plan for that eventuality too.
So there was a sense of relief that David died naturally in the womb and I went into labour knowing he was dead. I still have a sense of relief about that. I was and am glad he died the way he did.
I don't think I was ever in denial, but somehow I shoehorned relief and gratitude into those stages of grief, right at the beginning. Which I think wrecked the stages of grief for me.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
Sending so much love and support for everyone here. And hoping this week is less full of anxiety and dread.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Surfing Madness
Shipmate
# 11087
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Posted
NEQ, there are no words. Just coz it happened in the past, doesn't mean the pain isn't real now. Each child is precious, having 2 that are a joy to you now, doesn't mean that David is less precious or loved.
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I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk
Posts: 1542 | From: searching for the jam | Registered: Feb 2006
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