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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: All new job search support thread
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Grant-dependent contracts are a sure-fire way of keeping your staff permanently scared.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
I suppose I ought to report on here. I handed in my notice about 10 days ago. I am still employed to the end of August, finishing off and tidying up to handover on 14 August and available the week after. I should be petrified at the thought of being unemployed again as it took a while to get this job, but as I said at the leaving do (for my line manager with me tacked on) on Wednesday, I just feel relieved. There are three people being employed to replace me: two full time, one to cover the tutor role, one to cover the curriculum / exams role and another with a slightly different role, but still doing some of what I did.
I really need to apply for jobs, but I did put in for a few things recently as deadlines hit and realised reading the covering e-mails back that I was showing my anger in my current situation. I am hoping that having handed in my notice I won't feel so frustrated and can apply sensibly for jobs.
LeRoc reckons it's all his fault as he seems to meet us and we hand our notice in, so, in the pub last night, we suggested he should volunteer his services to help people move on when they need to.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
[cups hands to mouth]LeROC! GET YOUR ARSE OVER TO OXFORD NOW![/cups hands to mouth]
Adrian
(who, at the mo, mostly feels relieved about it too. This may change depending on how much of a clusterfuck open-ended contracts turn out to be)
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Scots lass
Shipmate
# 2699
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Posted
Good news! I have a job interview on Monday. I spent most of a train journey between London and Edinburgh (and back) writing an application form and getting my travelling companion to edit it for me, a strategy which has clearly worked out. The downside is that it's a contract job that pays slightly less well than my current permanent job. Upside is obviously that it's not my current soul-destroying job and that the contract relates to an outside negotiation which I assume will be resolved positively, leading to permanence.
I am torn between excited and nervous, plus I have no idea what to wear and will be spending much of Sunday evening taking everything out of my wardrobe to try and work out what a) fits and b) makes me look professional and competent.
Posts: 863 | From: the diaspora | Registered: Apr 2002
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Best of British, Scots lass!
AG
[ 30. July 2015, 11:33: Message edited by: Sandemaniac ]
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
^^^ What he said. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Good luck Scots Lass. I've never regretted going for posts with less money if it meant a return to a better balance between work and the rest of my life.
My son is still looking. The last post he went for decided that he didn't have enough experience. Fair enough, but as he pointed out given the salary they were wanting to pay they aren't going to attract people with that experience.
Yesterday he had an email from a recruiter saying he wasn't successful at getting his CV sent forward for a post. Again fair enough, except it was followed up by an email an hour later from the same recruiter for exactly the same post saying that his CV was just what they were looking for and could he fill in a supplementary form.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
I think that merits an excrutiatingly polite phone call.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I am over doing boring work for difficult people and I want to do something else. True story: this week the details of partner profit sharing came out. My boss got a share for one year worth approximately twice the value of my house. He considered himself hard done by and is appealing it. Now, I grant that he has to pay taxes out of it and all the best but… no, we really, really do not have the same values.
I am going to take the Chartered Institute of Linguists’ translation diploma as an independent candidate. Which is a good plan because you don’t have to take any courses, you can just turn up on the day and sit the paper. But HOLY COW that exam is expensive (£600 plus the fee for sitting it at the British Council in Paris ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ). I have to get the paperwork in by the end of August to take the exam in January.
This route may lead to earning less money for me as well, but it’s not necessarily a bad thing. Husband en rouge, who is visually impaired, gets a bonus from the authorities as a disabled teacher. If our joint income goes above a certain level, he loses it. So it looks like the way forward might be for me to get a lower-paid job that I hate less, and for us to keep the bonus. We wouldn’t be much worse off, and I would be considerably less frustrated and unhappy.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
And yet another stupid question from me.
We have a local quarterly free magazine, which is a mix of adverts for local businesses (which finances it), What's On, reports of local news etc. I do a local history bit. It takes 2-3 hours once a quarter, so only about 10 hours a year (unpaid, of course).
I've also had a few articles published in a family history magazine over the past 10 years. (again, not paid).
Plus a couple of newspaper pieces (can't remember, but think I got approx £20 per piece).
The North East Man has suggested I add these to my CV. Surely that would look a bit desperate?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
I disagree - you may be doing voluntarily but you what you want to show is that you have these skill sets - and they are valuable ones! They won't know if you don't tell them.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
No, really include any relevant skills and experience, particularly targeting experience that demonstrates anything required by that job description. And tweak your CV for each job application.
I've got things I did as a school governor on one version of my CV as they are relevant to that particular field. If I'm playing the admin card then other activities are highlighted: role as secretary for a local organisation and my successful applications for charitable status and grant funding, for example.
I continued as a school governor and did various other things while I was caring for my daughter when she was sick so that particular period is covered by voluntary activities because schools are particularly twitchy that all times are covered satisfactorily, just in case you've been incarcerated.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I am on the employer side of this. We have been trying to hire admin staff for 3 months. Critical is that the skills claimed are real. It doesn't matter how acquired. Don't pad the resume and claim experiences you don't really have. Ability and willingness to learn is as important. Initiative is important. Writing articles shows at least two things. That you can write and initiative. Put it in.
More generally, if it is a dealing with the public type of job, employers assess everything. From all phone calls through waiting for interview, we observe it all. Your mobile, turn it off. Return messages preferably the same day.
Good employees are like gold.
[ 01. August 2015, 16:21: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I think WW and CK are right - the individual things may seem trivial to you, but they're still demonstrating your skills as a writer/communicator, and also that while you're not in actual paid employment, you're not just sitting about waiting for the grass to grow.
Go for it - get your trumpet out and blow it as hard as you possibly can!
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
... besides, you'd be shocked just how many people look at you with Awe and Wonder™ because you have a published article anywhere, under any circumstances.
You may think it of little account; chances are your resume readers won't.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
On a related note, someone who got their PhD a year ahead of me is including book reviews in academic journals as "academic publications." I thought that looked ridiculous. I do have "book reviewer" in my CV but I don't have them all listed under academic publications because...well, they're just book reviews. I've done five so far.
A book review isn't an "academic publication" is it?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Maybe it depends on what book you were reviewing.
The Oxford Handbook of Clinical Medicine might well count as one; Fifty Shades of Grey probably not. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I'm guessing it depends on whether you were asked to be a reviewer (not the same thing as popping up on Amazon to do it!) and also whether you mark them honestly and openly as "book reviews" in the resume. If you have other, "real" academic publishing, put that up first and add this as a modest ending. (It does show you're active in your field.)
[ 01. August 2015, 22:06: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
Also depends on the job being applied for. Senior lecturer, probably not as it's obvious to everyone that it's just padding and you should have more journal articles/books on your CV. Teaching/research assistant, they could look good as shows you are active in keeping up with your field. But yes, I agree that you would put them as 'book reviews' in a separate section, rather than include them in the 'academic publications' section.
I think I'd be inclined, if the CV is bloated (which academic CVs often are), to just put 'book reviewer for the Journal of X', and then add something like 'refereces of reviews available on request'. Similarly for the magazine articles (or, if there's one article you're particularly proud of then include the reference for that one and then perhaps a note that there are X other articles by you printed in the magazine).
[ 02. August 2015, 11:51: Message edited by: Jack the Lass ]
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Well that was interesting. I had a Skype conversation earlier today with someone I've applied for a job with - it seems he's trying to cut down his shortlist to a manageable size. Fingers crossed I've impressed.
In other news, I had the following from our admin team(?) yesterday:
"I am still in communication with Personnel Services and have yet to be advised that we are anywhere near Stage 3. The next step for me is to arrange a meeting with [Pointy Haired Boss] and Personnel Services.
Whilst I appreciate that this whole process is unsettling for you, there is still a possibility (and I cannot make a guess at this stage what the probability is) that we will not move to Stage 3. As soon as I have any news for you, I will let you know."
Reading between the lines I think this means "We don't have a fucking clue".
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
A book review isn't an "academic publication" is it?
No, it's not. Being invited by someone fairly prestigious to review some books is worth something, as is being a reviewer for a journal - but neither of these things is an academic publication.
Don't list this kind of stuff alongside your academic work, as it dilutes the impact of the scholarly work you've done. Do mention it - it's not worthless - but don't mix it in.
You might add a sentence at the end of your publications section that says "also the author of N articles on local history aimed at the general public in a selection of local magazines and newspapers" or something.
[ 04. August 2015, 15:40: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Book reviews in your field are a form of academic publication.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Bollocks. After yesterday's interview-lite, today has been a horrible mood crash, not helped by a very earnest chap at an agency trying to interest me in technical sales roles (I phoned to let him know that a mortgage now meant there was no likelihood of me taking a pay cut to change direction). Given a choice between a sales role and stapling my scrotum to a plank, all I can say is "Pass the staples!".
Incidentally, I notice that no-one has yet defended career advisers.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
I spent about a decade as an employment counsellor for university students. Would that be your equivalent of a careers counsellor, Sandemaniac? In universities in Canada, career counselling is usually performed by licensed counsellors which I am not.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Scots lass
Shipmate
# 2699
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Posted
Monday's interview was alright - I know it wasn't awful, and it seemed to go ok so I'v been waiting to hear back from them. Today I got an email inviting me to come for a second interview on Monday (they seem to like Mondays), which was not in the original spec ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif) ! The panel for this interview only has one person in common with the panel from last time. I've never had a second interview before - what do they generally involve? The previous one went over all the technical bits to do with the job (standards, the software we use) plus the usual management-y/team stuff, so i have no idea what to expect.
Plus now I feel I need to find a different outfit, which is a pain...
Posts: 863 | From: the diaspora | Registered: Apr 2002
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Did they give you any behavioural based questions in the first interview? Usually, the second interview is looking for fit with the workplace culture amongst other things.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
I spent about a decade as an employment counsellor for university students
I think that's probably the closest on this thread, Caissa. I have no idea whether there's a licensing requirement in the UK - round here it seems to be the resort of youngish ladies (there is a fairly major age and sex bias) with a PhD who, I would venture, may not have a huge amount of experience in what I would call real life.
In other news, the interview-lite can't have gone too badly as it has led to a real interview - arvo of September 1st. It's not an ideal situation, it's still in the university, but needs must when the mortgage needs paying!
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Congrats on the interview, Sandemaniac. All of my adult work experience is in the university so as an employment counsellor one may have thought I was deficient in real world experience.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Congratulations to Sandemaniac and Scot's Lass on the interviews.
Son has gone to an interview 200 miles away. He has two next week slightly nearer. All three are in areas he would be interested in working so fingers crossed one of them is succesful.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scots lass:
... Plus now I feel I need to find a different outfit, which is a pain...
Would you be able to change just one element of the outfit, say, same jacket, different skirt/trousers (or vice-versa); or, if it's a suit, wear a different shirt/blouse?
Either way, best of luck!
And the same to Sandemaniac and Son of Sarasa!
[ 07. August 2015, 00:45: Message edited by: Piglet ]
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
Good idea about changing an aspect of the outfit. I would also add perhaps a scarf or similar.
Interviewers may not remember what you wore, unless you were the only person they saw.
[ 07. August 2015, 01:07: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
A scarf was my first thought, too. Accessories can really do wonders.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Lia
Shipmate
# 7396
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Posted
Hi all,
after you patiently read about the negative outcome of my assessment centre up-thread, I have now had a glimmer of hope, in the form of a semi-certain job offer (as a result of my narrowly missing the score for admission).
The job would be at a v low grade and at half my salary in my current job, but it would be with the civil service and certainly with better work/life balance.
I skipped all the way home yesterday after hearing the news, but this might have more to do with having a way out from my current dead-end job, rather than with the wonderfulness of the new opportunity.
I am v grateful to be given this unexpected option but really don't know what to do.
I actually don't mind working long hours and don't want to get bored - am more interested in career progression opportunities and the change to move away from IT, as I am not passionate about it.
Any advice gratefully received!
Lia
Posts: 127 | From: Cherry Tree Lane | Registered: Jun 2004
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
I would go for it Lia, if you think that you can cope with the lower salary. As I've said upthread I've never regretted taking less salary to move onto a job that I think I would enjoy more.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I think Sarasa's probably right. If your current job is so ghastly that it's making you unwell, and the lower salary is still liveable-on, the increase in satisfaction will probably make it worth it.
[ 07. August 2015, 13:28: Message edited by: Piglet ]
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Thirded. If you can pay the bills on it, take the option for your health and sanity.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Job interview on Wednesday. Feeling very funny about it, as I love my current job (and my workmates), but I need to move nearer my elderly relatives.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
I will be thinking of you on Wednesday Arabella.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Thanks, 9.30am is the time. All positive vibes sent will be gratefully received.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Vibes heading your way from over here!
eta: I'd better send them on Tuesday, as by that time it'll be Wednesday with you.
[ 09. August 2015, 01:03: Message edited by: Piglet ]
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
Sending my best wishes now Arabella as my memory is hopeless for that sort of thing - and it will be 3 of the a.m. here! But then I might well be on one of my nightly pilgrimages to the bathroom at that hour!
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Lia
Shipmate
# 7396
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Posted
Hi guys,
it is manic at work, so don't have tome to post properly, but thank you so much for your advice.
I will wait until I know more about the nature of the role and the exact salary before I make a decision. I also have a phone interview for a big City company next week which would mean very good money and prestige but long hours and stress, so I might have to make multiple decisions.. we will see how the timing works out as this might all come to nothing.
Thank you again for your help and best wished to Arabella for Wed.
Lia
Posts: 127 | From: Cherry Tree Lane | Registered: Jun 2004
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
All of my adult work experience is in the university so as an employment counsellor one may have thought I was deficient in real world experience.
Maybe that's part of the problem here - it's being done by people who fit the advertised requirements, rather than real life?
There's a role being advertised
here - click on the grey button and scroll down, for some reason they can't manage to make jobs available on a link that can be emailed! Your views might be interesting...?
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
I can't seem to find a specific job at that link.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Click on "View current professional and management jobs", and scroll down page one. It works on my home PC, so shouldn't be an Oxford-only issue.
That does rather sum up why I get annoyed with the place - no-one seems to have thought that people might want to send people a link to something that might interest them...
Adrian
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
It struck me, on reading that advert, that the blurb was almost completely without meaning or substance.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
You and me both, Wodders!
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
It was a very strange interview, and I came out of it not having a clue how it went, which is unique in my experience. They won't be letting anyone know for another week, so I've been wandering around in a state of blah.
To be honest, I'm not sure I want to work with them, they were so unfriendly. My best interpretation is that they had a preferred candidate already lined up.
Weird.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
APW, at least if you're not sure you want to work for them, you'll not be too disappointed if they say no.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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