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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: All new job search support thread
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Yes, I'm currently trying to handle something similar - trying to learn the language of jobs outside academia *spit dang!* It's harder work than you think and I'm not sure that I can offer much advice yet, I'm still at the stage of staring at the keyboard until my forehead bleeds.
This is to do with at long bloody last the careers service here have someone who is doing what I've been begging them to do for about a decade which is actually listen to me and try to help instead of blathering.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
Hello thread. I was last around here about 18 months ago. I am back sooner than I might have hoped. On sick leave at present and not sure I can continue in my current role. Got two job applications to write by the end of this week (one for Thursday, one for Friday). Not doing very well at just writing the bloomin' applications. Argh. That is all.
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Sandemaniac -
I'm not sure how close my experience is to yours - I left an HE lectureship which 17 years in, had started to send me mad. I didn't work for 6 months (wife works, I do my best with the kids) and now have PT hours back at same uni, but in different lab, as a lab tech.
I have some practical skills which sort-of fit with your list - electrical, welding, machine tools etc - which came about because I like that kind of thing. I now sell these skills in the lab, but I guess my USP is that I can give an impromptu maths lecture if the situation demands it, or do a bit of consultancy if the right enquiry comes along and no-one else wants to do it - which happens from time to time.
I guess I'm saying that if you can afford the financial hit, you may be able to 'buy' yourself out of stress by taking a more lowly role, but make yourself look like great value by making some of your groovier skills available to the new employer nonetheless.
This depends on a pretty upright new employer who doesn't just want to screw you. But for the right pairing there's an elusive win-win in there somewhere.
(If I really need money again, it'll have to be electrical trade. But I used to love teaching and I've volunteered with ex-offenders for last 25 years - so I'd like to hear more about prison teaching).
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Mark, my experience is rather the opposite of yours - it's years of being a technician (and variants on that title) that have driven me screwy. It just feels like I've wasted twenty years on shit that has never benefited anyone (you can try to sell me basic research as hard as you like, I've been there, done that, got the bad attitude to prove it).
I took a bloody great financial hit three years ago, and the savings and my salary have yet to recover, and I'm deeply cynical about trying to find a lower role in the same place as my previous efforts to do so have been met with utter indifference by would-be employers.
The University are currently advertising two jobs in the Radiocarbon Dating lab, which is pretty much the one place that could make me want to stay, but one is once again way down the pay scale on glass washing wages, whilst the other want the PhD I don't have. I'm going to go for that one, because I want to be able to buy a house while we still can, but in reality I doubt I stand a cat's chance in hell of landing it. Gotta try, though.
Typically, I was at a networking event last week, and ended up helping someone else more than anyone helped me. Karma had better bloody exist!
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Just keeping it on the front page... nothing new to report here, I'm afraid.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
LinkedIn have just sent me a list of jobs I might be interested in, including "technical support manager - crane lifting applications" in Aberdeen, "riser engineer lead" based in Brazil, a "delivery manager" post in Kazahkstan, and a "structural integrity specialist" job in Houston.
I don't even know what most of these jobs are, let alone know why my PhD in history might make me a suitable candidate for any of them.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
...and for some reason I'm getting updated posts from LinkedIn from a guy who breeds birds of prey in the Middle East!
I think it's been taking random pills...
I've also had an email from an agency (whose main effort thus far has been trying to persuade me to take jobs I don't want at a substantial salary cut) telling me about their wonderful new automated matching system. Looking at it, presumably I also have to match their misspelling to come up in the screen. I haven't got a job through an agency this century, why have I bothered trying?
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
At the moment, I am avoiding job-hunting but, sadly, the finances will not allow me to keep that up. Part of the problem is that my old job ended shortly after I started the process of returning to work after a sickness absence of 4 months, so I am not sure if I am capable of working full-time or not.
I know I should be trying to find voluntary work, just to get back into the routine of going to work, but sitting on the sofa is so much easier!
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Following on from NEQ's post, I have today been invited to connect with Seamus O'Murphy*, who recruits for gas and oil firms in Ireland. Ohkaaay...
AG
*not quite that Irish a name, but getting close.
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Scots lass
Shipmate
# 2699
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Posted
I've bene in my current job for over 5 years and it's now going nowhere. Management circumstances have lost us all sense of direction other than the day to day and we're all de-motivated (I've asked my manager to help us re-plan our strategy now that we have half the staff we used to, but he has yet to do so). So it's time to look elsewhere. I work in a small sector where the majority of the jobs that come up are either more junior, contract or part-time, none of which I'm in a financial position to take. Still, some better jobs have come up this year, I had a couple of interviews at the beginning of the year but failed to get interviews at everything since. One job has just come up which I think will be perfect for me, it's a place I'd like to work, the location/grade/salary are exactly what I want but it's going to be really competitive and I'm not very confident. Any tips on how to write that I really can do what they want and more - and how do I write the bit where they ask why I want the job?
Posts: 863 | From: the diaspora | Registered: Apr 2002
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
What field are you in, Scots lass? Probably not the same as mine, but that might help us help you...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Scots lass
Shipmate
# 2699
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Posted
Yes, I can see that would help... I'm an archivist.
Posts: 863 | From: the diaspora | Registered: Apr 2002
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Are you looking to place this in a cover letter, Scots' Lass or are you answering questions in an application?
When I worked as an employment counsellor, I usually advised students to go to the advertisement and underline the key components of the job. Then I suggested they demonstrate their acquisition of these attributes in the cover letter. They should tell the employer what skills they have and where they acquired/developed them. As to the why you want the job question, I usually suggested that an applicant discuss the opportunity it would provide them to use their skills. The number one question an employer has is " What can this person do for me?" Employers know that the best indicator of future performance is past performance therefore applicants should emphasize their experience. I hope this is helpful.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Scots lass
Shipmate
# 2699
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Posted
It's an application form. They want a statement on how I meet all aspects of the person spec, which is fairly straightforward. The harder bit is setting out my reasons for applying for the post, which is another box on the form! Thanks for the idea about setting out how it will help me develop my skills - that's definitely something worth thinking about. The phrase "ready for a new challenge" also comes to mind...
Posts: 863 | From: the diaspora | Registered: Apr 2002
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Besides how it will help you develop your skills, emphasize how the skills you currently have will benefit the employer.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Thank you all for providing this place to pop into when i was so very low and apparently failing to find work.....for four years ....pfff ...ridiculous... grrrrr....
It now seems so long ago and yet in all truthfulness it was only a few months ago that i started work. It's going really well. I love it. 99% of the time work is a joy...and the money is crucial. Without it i shudder to think what would have happened,
So here i am, popping back to say Hi ...cheering you guys on .....and hoping to read of some successful applications.
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Caissa - Thanks for those useful tips about covering letters etc. My son has finally got a job four months after the last one finished. I'd assumed that he'd find getting a new one easy, but he only had three interviews in that time. Looking at your tipsI think he needs to re-vamp the covering letter rather a lot.
Not only am I'm pleased for him it's given me my evenings back. He's dyslexic so I've been acting as assistant researcher and amanuensis.
Good luck for everyone out there searching
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Well that at least is good news, Gussie.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
You are welcome, Gussie. Always happy to help.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
If offered a job, what's the usual etiquette regarding how long you can take deciding whether or not to accept it?
(Am on sick leave with anxiety / depression / being mental. Am looking at related jobs which might be less likely to trigger my mentalness or might trigger it less severely. Am having difficulty motivating self to apply for jobs. Did put a couple of applications in three weeks ago and have an interview for one of those vacancies next week. Obviously, no certainty * 'd be offered it, but if * were offered it * think * would find the decision a bit tricky - * .e. * 'm not sure it's the ideal position for me, but returning to my current job would also not be at all ideal.)
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
It is usually fair to ask for 48-72 hours to consider the offer. However, the larger the position and the more then company wants you, could dictate a longer period of time.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
Thanks Caissa - although I'm kind of doubting I'll need the info. Dunno whether to post here or on one of the depression threads. The interview is tomorrow and I've done no prep. The deadline for applications for another job was a couple of days ago. I'd previously thought that if an opportunity in that team came up I'd snap it up. I now feel distinctly less enthused, but I can''t tell whether that's because the objective down sides of the job have become more apparent to me or because my current depressive episode is clouding my judgement. I put in a rushed application 30 minutes before the deadline (online applications). Don't know what the fuck I'm doing with my life. My GP told me last week that we will get me to feeling better again. I do believe her. Just a bit ugh trying to change jobs while I'm like this. (Although, now I think about it, this is probably preferable to last time I was trying to change jobs when I was tearing-hair-out stressed-and-wound-up with the job I had, rather than current apathetic do-I-give-a-shit-about-any-job? state.)
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
As of about twenty minutes ago, I am now jobhunting again. Popped in an application for something I don't stand a cats chance in hell of getting, but it's something I'd dearly love to do so I have to try.
FWIW I can sympathise, Zoey, though jobhunting tends to do it to me, rather than it affecting the jobhunting first. Whichever way it is it sucks, and good luck handling it.
Wish me luck (and sanity).
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
Had the interview. Was blatantly massively underprepared, but I don't think I made an utter fool of myself. Don't think I'll get the job, but in some ways it's a minor confidence boost to think I can blag through an interview semi-coherently whilst feeling shit and having not prepared at all.
(For anyone who's not aware - I'm a social worker. There's a national shortage of us. Finding a job which doesn't drive me batshit crazy might be a problem, but finding job vacancies for which I'm qualified isn't so much of a problem - hence why I can be rather blase about not getting one particular job.)
Onwards and upwards (no doubt with some wobbles on the way) ...
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Celtic Knotweed
Shipmate
# 13008
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Posted
Got an interview next week! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) The job is nothing like what I'm doing now (3 cheers), but it looks interesting and is quite a bit more related to the fields I have qualifications in.
One of the questions that will probably come up at interview which I don't know how to answer is "Why do you want to leave xxx organisation?". Some of my reasons are probably obvious ones (pay, lack of use of aforesaid qualifications), but I'm not completely certain myself of some of the others! I do know why I want to move to these guys at least (and told them in the application).
Zoey - even if you were massively underprepared, they may still have liked what they saw enough to consider offering. Assuming you still want the post after speaking to them that is! (I once declined a job offer because I didn't think I could work with my potential boss, and had been offered another post the same day. No regrets on that one, having spoken some years later with the person who did get the post.)
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My little sister is riding 100k round London at night to raise money for cancer research donations here if you feel so inclined.
Posts: 664 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Sep 2007
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chive
Ship's nude
# 208
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Posted
Some good news - my brother in law who was made redundant two years ago and has struggled to find work since despite literally thousands of applications and dozens of interviews, has got a permanent job. This comes with perfect timing as my sister is expecting her first child.
It's not the perfect job. It's not what he wants to do but it's a civil service job with all the security that comes with that.
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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost
Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Sandemaniac, I assume it was you, not the other CK. answers you could give are being there a while and wanting fresh challenges, or being unable to see ways to move forward and wanting to progress your career so you want to take a sideways step and hope to get back into a field where there are prospects.
This whole thing could be better phrased but there is only so much redrafting I am doing on a phone and about to go underground.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Celtic Knotweed
Shipmate
# 13008
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Posted
CK, nope it was really me, not Sandemaniac using my machine by mistake! Thanks for that - gives me somewhere to work from when thinking about possible points.
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My little sister is riding 100k round London at night to raise money for cancer research donations here if you feel so inclined.
Posts: 664 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Sep 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
If you are asked why you want to leave x company, it is usually best to say you wanted to move on to a new challenge to utilize your skills.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Yes, it's definitely Celtic Knotweed with the interview. I should know...
AG
(waiting for inevitable disappointment)
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
Why do employers post jobs with midnight closing for applications? I would be faffing round for the couple of hours before the deadline if it were midday or 5pm, but it wouldn't be quite so unhealthy. ...
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Celtic Knotweed
Shipmate
# 13008
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Posted
Interview was earlier in the week, went OK (I hope). Thanks for the tips - came in handy. At any rate, I did the best I could and didn't come out thinking *I don't want to work here*, which did happen to me a couple of years ago!
They did say not to expect a yes/no till the end of next week, as they were interviewing over all of this week and the start of next. I hate the waiting...
Lamb Chopped - better luck with the next one. I hate the experience trap.
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My little sister is riding 100k round London at night to raise money for cancer research donations here if you feel so inclined.
Posts: 664 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Sep 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Same here, LC - all I seem to have experience in is doing the shit I hate, and I have too much of that.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Celtic Knotweed
Shipmate
# 13008
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Posted
...and the result arrived in my in-box on Friday. I didn't get the job. ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif) Time to start hunting once more.
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My little sister is riding 100k round London at night to raise money for cancer research donations here if you feel so inclined.
Posts: 664 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Sep 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
...and I haven't heard owt either, so it's back to banging my head against the wall. After a decade or so, you'd think I'd finally crack it...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Your head or the wall??? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Seriously though, sorry to hear your and CK's less-than-helpful news.
I wish I could offer something more useful than my prayers and "better luck next time".
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
It would be nice if it was the wall, but it seems to be my head.
Piglet, I'd much rather have someone admitting they can't help than some of the patronising crap I've had from people who should know better, who then walk off thinking they've done something wonderful, or feel they've done their duty by saying something. At least here people share their experience and you can discuss stuff.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
As someone who is just about to jump back into this, I reckon 10 applications for an interview, 10 interviews for a job as a rough rule of thumb. Which at least keeps me going when I'm not enjoying the process, but means I'm going to have to be very targeted in what I'm doing to try and reduce the number of interviews (as it's damn difficult to hide that many when you're working).
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
Wow. That reminds me again of some of the benefits of being a social worker. (Think I might have done half a dozen applications and 3 interviews to get my first post, the next time I applied for one job only and got it.)
My old employer which I left 18 months ago is advertising vacancies. Going back there wouldn't be ideal for various reasons, but I don't think I can completely rule it out.
Two related questions:
1) They're advertising that they have a number of vacancies. At interview stage, can I realistically indicate which team manager I'd prefer to work for if s/he has a vacancy? (I'm guessing the answer is no.)
2) If I were to apply and be offered a post, could I ask who my team manager would be before deciding whether to accept the post? (I'm thinking the answer is yes to this one.)
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
Oh look - my 3000th post on the Ship was about work issues - I have an awful feeling that might be indicative of what I spend a lot of time on here fretting about!
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
Zoey, I think the answers to your questions are Yes and Yes.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask which teams have the vacancies and which members/managers there are in each team. In the gang I worked for there were certain managers/colleagues that would have made my life impossible - I would do your best to be assertive about things.
But then I was always a bit of a bolshie so-and-so.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
Indeed, there are team managers there who I would flat-out refuse to work for. On the other hand, the best manager I've had in my career so far was there and is still there - not sure that balances out the fact that I've moved house so it would be a long-ish commute now and the fact that I was not the service manager's favourite employee by a very long stretch - but my first manager was *lovely*. (Also, she was so gracious. I don't think I'd ever quite gain the skill she has, but would like more chance to try to pick it up - she was gracious even when firmly disagreeing with others, you could tell she really didn't agree at all, but she never got arsey or petulant about it - which is what I tend to do. It still baffles me how she did it and gains immense admiration from me.)
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Where the holy flip do I find 100 jobs to apply for?
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Good luck to everyone job searching.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
And I didn't get as far as an interview.
Fucking fuckety fucking fuck fuck.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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