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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: All new job search support thread
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
I suggest all jobseekers read a copy of What Color is Your Parachute? if they have not done so already.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
I did. It made me feel like throwing up.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
OK, I'm a bit emotional today, I exaggerate, but it was very, very not me.
Adrian
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
The whole point of the book is that it is not most people. It suggests a non-traditional form of job search because the traditional sense doesn't work for many job seekers.
[edited to add a space - WW]
[ 15. October 2014, 00:54: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
When I worked as a Vocational Guidance counsellor (before they made us all redundant ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ) I found that some people found that book really helpful, while it really irritated others. As I worked in a small, conservative town with high unemployment few of the employers were open to anything other than a straightforward application, and most people who got work were appointed due to nepotism anyway.
Sandemaniac I don't often post on this thread as I'm not currently looking for work, but I do read it. I wish I could offer some practical assistance, but I can't, all I can say is that I admire your tenacity and hope some employer sees sense before long.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Scots lass
Shipmate
# 2699
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Posted
Well, the most recent application went in - with the advice followed on what to say when it asked for why I wanted the job. I got someone senior to read it for me and made changes as recommended by her. I was told I'd hear within two weeks if I got an interview, and nothing if not. It's not quite two weeks yet (that would be Friday) but I know the interviews are meant to be next week, so am assuming I didn't get one ![[Frown]](frown.gif) .
My current job is basically sucking the life out of me, and I've not had a job interview for a while. I really don't know what else I can try, so am feeling pretty despondent right now. I could do everything on the person spec, and all the development stuff they were looking to do in the next couple of years, so now I suppose I just have to try and work out if there's someone I can go to for feedback. I think it's mainly faceless HR though.
Posts: 863 | From: the diaspora | Registered: Apr 2002
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
To get past the HR / short-listing process you need to make sure you tick enough boxes on the job requirements.
Basically, because this I've done too, and it improved my job applications no end, the person doing the short list has to get the pile of applications down to a manageable number to interview. So say you start with a pile of 50 applications for 3 posts. Maximum you can interview properly in a day is 6, allowing an hour an interview. For 3 posts maybe you would want to interview 12 - allowing two days of interviews.
First obvious weed out is anyone who doesn't match the job criteria. Any application where the handwriting is hard work to read goes here along with applications that look as if the candidate can't be bothered because they are full of typos and misspellings: life is too short to interview anyone who isn't interested. People who have had the wit to type responses and stick them in boxes tend to get kudos. I tried to be fair and had a tick list of what the job required and how well the applications matched - lots of places use computers to do this.
Second weed is on what is said - this is where applications which have long unexplained absences from work, patchy work histories, lots of walking out of jobs with no notice or not making it through probation or anything that suggests they would be hard to work with, would not stay after the initial training or are not team players tend to get removed. Absences with explanations aren't so suspicious. Once someone applied well over employment age and knowing the attrition rate of young hale people she fell at this hurdle but it was also the implications from the employment law issues that meant she went. You can calculate ages from employment history and exam result dates, whatever the legislation says.
These two filters will often be done by HR. So no-one who knows anything about the role, just doing checks against a job specification.
Then, hopefully the pile is down to something manageable, and goes to the department employing. Now other factors come into force, like additional things to offer: skills that would be useful or profiles that would improve the team profile. It's here arbitrary decisions like this candidate is offering things we already have a surfeit of on the team come into play, so the person who is offering something different gets the interview.
Now you can do a lot as an applicant to deal with the first two filters, both of which should be implicit in the application process. The third is hopefully transparent too, but when the employer has got a pile of applications to get down into a number the company has time to interview some arbitrariness of selection may come in.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Just popping by to wish all job seekers good luck. It seems to me from my recent experience of helping my son find work, that who gets invited for interview is often in the hands of people who don't really know what the job is about, so as CK says ticking all the boxes for what they think they want is the key.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
all I can say is that I admire your tenacity and hope some employer sees sense before long.
Sadly in a world of contracts with funding for one year, I have very little choice but to keep banging on, tenacity is a requirement not an option.
The following appeared elsewhere, but I have quoted with the poster's permission - hope that's OK - "Whatever you do - avoid the standard 'send in your CV' approach - that's just putting you at the mercy of HR (who don;t know what they are recruiting for and often just look for keywords. A friend of mine wanted to work in India - so he researched some Indian IT companies who would want his skills, FOUND A CONTACT using LInkedIN and then sent him his CV and gently followed up. Result - One Interview, one job offer and a stay in India. Personal contacts also really help. The best thing you can do is tell your friends that you're looking" I guess that's pretty much what Caissa etc are saying, isn't it. It had better bloody work is all I can say.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
I'm feeling slightly stupid just now.
As far as I can remember, I've never previously had an interviewer promise to get in touch with the interview outcome either way and then fail to do so. Three weeks and two days ago, I had an interview. The main interviewer said they were doing further interviews later in the week and it would probably be the next week before I heard, but they'd get in touch either way. Have not heard anything back and was thinking it was taking a while. Have just read a post on a different internet forum asking why interviewers so often promise to get in touch either way and then fail to do so. It hadn't really occurred to me the interviewer might have done this - as I say, I blame my naievity on the fact I don't think I've had this happen before (and I can remember at least a couple of times when I have received 'Thanks but no thanks' phone calls).
Tomorrow I have another interview. I'm going to try to do more preparation than for the one three weeks ago (for which I had done sod all preparation), but am not massively enthused or optimistic. Ho hum.
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
As Gwai says, it could be just down to them not being very good - many years ago, I applied for a job via an agency in October, had an interview in November, and then went through a comedy of errors that increasingly more surreal, following my acceptance of their offer, before finally coming up with a start date in April. This for a job two hundred yards from my door. After all that, they had the cheek to be affronted when I turned up, handed in my notice, and left again because something that might be better, and didn't seem to be being run by a bunch of blithering idiots, had turned up in the meantime.
I suggest you give them a poke.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
Yes - it is worth chasing this up. In some humungously large organisations there are a lot of hoops for the interviewing process to go through, during which time the funding for the post might be withdrawn so the post can no longer be filled. If the team arranging the interviews is disorganised they might forget to inform the candidates of this, or just hope the candidate is so smitten with the idea of working for them that they will accept being put on hold until the winds change direction.
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Sometimes in hiring, I have been on committees where we needed to reflct on to whom we wished to offer the position. Hire in haste, repent at leisure. As well, I have been hired into positions where I know I was the second choice. Obviously, it to take to offer the position to their first choice and then be declined.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
In respect of the job I interviewed for 3 weeks ago - I don't mind a little bit of waiting until the wind changes direction. It wouldn't be my first choice of new job and I'm currently applying and interviewing for other things, but I do rather need *a* new job relatively soon, so if I weren't to get anything I prefered and they offered it to me later on then I might take it. I think I was mostly reeling from feeling naive yesterday - according to some people, lots of employers promise to contact all interviewed candidates with an outcome either way and then fail to ever do so - in a major failure of imagination, this possibility just hadn't occurred to me previously. I won't be too gutted if I don't get the post (I think my interview was not particularly good in any case).
Had an interview for a different job today. I think I fulfilled my wish of not embarassing myself. I also found out that I probably don't want the job. For reasons I don't want to go into on a public board, life could get tricky if I were offered it and turned it down. I guess I'm not the first person in history to be hoping I *don't* get offered the position after attending for interview, but it is a somewhat unusual situation to find oneself in (not that I'm complaining - will wait and see what happens and worry about whether or how to turn it down if I actually get offered it).
So, for this job search, my current tallies are:
1 application submitted which went nowhere (we've sailed past the 'if you don't hear, assume you've been unsuccessful' date);
2 interviews attended, outcomes not yet known (but neither is a post I'm desperate to get and one I'd probably rather not be offered!);
2 applications submitted recently enough that I am still wondering whether I'll be called for interview;
3 applications to complete and submit next week.
Hey ho, ho hum.
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
At least you have stuff to apply for, Zoey. I am apparently only qualified/experienced enough to do what I've been doing for years which (a) I am bore titless with and (b) I'm now over-experienced (ie too expensive) for. IDMFHI!
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Just keeping this on page 1...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
Got a letter today saying an employer has "fast tracked [my] application form to the shortlisting stage and we will contact you very soon with the outcome of this". Does this mean I've been short-listed for interview? Can't really decipher it. (I know that they had a number of vacancies and that they re-advertised extending the closing date by a month - I'm guessing they're writing to me to try not to lose me in the meantime because I submitted my application on the original closing date.)
State of play -
- 2 unsuccessful applications with no interview;
- 2 unsuccessful interviews;
- 4 other employers applied to and waiting to hear - 1 of these employers has two vacancies, the other 3 are all advertising multiple vacancies - quite hoping I get an offer from one of these four, please God?
- 1 plan for my trade union to try to help me kick current employer's arse into gear a little bit, especially since I did declare a disability before I started in this post and they have been a little bit lousy with any reasonable adjustments.
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Short-listing is in two stages usually. HR weed to get rid of the obviously unsuitable who don't meet any criteria. The pile that gets past that check goes to the department for short-listing into the group that are worth inviting to an interview. I suspect you've got to stage 2. And whether you get an interview at that stage would depend on how many posts there are, how many in the pile that got past HR and how much time and manpower they can afford to spend interviewing.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
Thanks. Useful to know.
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
*Pokes onto front page again*
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Always happy to provide support based on my decade as a student employment counsellor.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
Hmmmmm. I am down a rabbit-hole (in the Alice In Wonderland sense). Have been offered an interview at the employer I left on not wonderful terms 18 months ago (and the person I've been told to ask for when arriving for interview is a manager I know - not one of the ones I would refuse to work for, fortunately). Got a couple of weeks to work out whether I am going to attend the interview or duck out on the basis it's all a bit too weird.
Annoyingly, the employer I like best out of the four I've currently applied to has just re-advertised their posts extending the closing date by nearly a month (this is not the same employer as previously re-advertised and extended their closing date) - come on people! I know there aren't enough social workers around, but is extending your closing dates really going to get you that many more candidates or is it just going to piss off those who've already applied (i.e. me) and force them into accepting a different job they don't entirely want? Agh.
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Probably nothing to lose by attending an interview. It's good practice even if you are pretty certain to decline any job offer.
Usually, re-advertising a position means that you are less than pleased with the applicant pool you received.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I'd agree with Caissa - you can never really get too much practice, even if you don't think you'd take the job if it were offered. Just don't let them know that's what you're thinking!
Good luck! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
One of the questions I've been asked (and asked) at the end of an interview is if the interviewee is still interested in the post. This is for school roles. By then candidate has seen the school, met most of the key people involved, had any questions answered in the interview and may well know that this is not a good fit for them, for whatever reason. It's far better to know at this point as it takes them off the short-listing for offers of a post.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I used to find it mildly amusing that prospective employers would end an interview by saying "If you were offered the job, would you take it?" - it was tempting to reply, "No - I'm putting myself through the nerve-racking torture of being interviewed for the good of my health".
I don't think I've ever been interviewed for a job that I wouldn't have taken if offered; the only time I've turned down an interview was when I'd applied for several jobs in the same place, but with varying degrees of permanence, full-time/part-time etc. When I was offered a full-time, permanent job (which was what I wanted at the time) I withdrew my other applications.
Having said that, if the interviewer is the person you're going to be working with/for, it's possible that the interview may be enough to let you know that it's Not For You and you should run a mile.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
Having said that, if the interviewer is the person you're going to be working with/for, it's possible that the interview may be enough to let you know that it's Not For You and you should run a mile.
Oh boy, isn't that the truth?
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Oh I have been interviewed for a job I would not have taken after the interview. About half way through the assessment came up a task which I held to be wrong headed. I was really glad I was not offered the job.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Argh.
All going so well. Started Career Coaching (mostly, it seems, at the mo directed at finding me rather than a career. Well, I suppose I'm here, so that's a start), feeling as positive as I have been for ages, then sat down at tea break on the next table to a group loudly discussing how the hell you shortlisted 200 plus CVs... Christ, not what I needed to overhear, then followed that up by discovering I'd made a stupid cockup through not caring... All in all, a bit of a meltdown.
Oh well, there's always Lidl.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
I'm just back in my (postdoc) job this week after maternity leave. I have 4 months part time left on my contract - it finishes at the end of February. I decided while on maternity leave (although I'm pretty sure I would have come to the same conclusion anyway, regardless of having a baby or not) that academia isn't the right environment for me. Lots of reasons, and not at all reflective of the team I work in or my colleagues, who are all great, but it's definitely the right decision. I have an application form to complete to join the local nurse bank, as my registration is due next year so I need to get some shifts in, so at least I don't have the worry of not knowing what's next. But I do have to get through the next 4 months when my heart isn't really in it, and I do also worry that, because my heart isn't fully in health visiting either, I will end up a bit unfulfilled. I think I've talked here before about wanting to combine research and clinical practice in the NHS rather than in an academic setting, but those jobs are few and far between. Oh well - I know I am lucky that at least I have the health visiting to fall back on (providing I get enough shifts between March and July to reregister).
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
I've now got two invites to interview for next week - only problem is that they're for exactly the same time at two employers about an hour's drive apart from each other.
Plan of action:
*Phone the employer I haven't worked for before to check a couple of points about their vacancy.
*Do Careful Thinking about pros and cons of employer I've worked for before.
*Read Ofsted reports (with required salt cellar to hand).
*If I want to attend both interviews, ask to rearrange with the employer which has given me less than a week's notice and keeps readvertising its posts and extending the closing date anyway.
*Scratch head a great deal and feel puzzled generally about what I should be doing with my career.
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Good luck, Zoey!
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
I would try to reschedule the interview as soon as possible because the epotential employer may need to time to rearrange their schedule.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
Have rearranged so I can attend both interviews (took someone's cancelled slot for one of them). Don't think either job is perfect fit for me but suspect I will have to take whatever I'm offered because current job will be becoming unbearable (awful meeting of awfulness today ).
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
I don't think a job is ever ideal; I think we make the best of any job through our service to others. I have spent 20 years in university student services and thoruoughly enjoyed it. I just finished reading Get Off Your Donkey which has a lot to speak to about approaching work.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
So how often do interviewers say to failed candidates that they'd be welcome to apply again in the future?
Didn't get one job I quite liked the look of - feeling amazingly calm and stoical about this tonight. I wasn't well enough prepared for the interview overall and was also thrown by the first question which I found odd (but which I'll know to prepare for in future). Interviewer feedback was that my interview answers needed to be stronger, but they'd welcome me applying to them again in the future. (I did point out that they keep re-advertising every month at present and asked how long before I could re-apply. Interviewer refused to be drawn on a timescale, but I'm guessing not before Christmas and they'd probably like about 6 months at least.)
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Did the interviewer define "stronger"?
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
I think I know what she meant. I needed to big myself up more and be more confident in presenting examples of when my practice has been good (the whole competency-focussed recruitment which is very popular). Partly, I hadn't prepared for this particular interview enough. Partly, I haven't had a great 18 months professionally. I know that 18 months ago I gave a very good interview for my current job (was told so by one of the interviewers when I'd started the job). I need to get my equilibrium back a bit, focus on examples of when I've done my job well and get back to being able to present smoothly and confidently in interviews again. (When I asked about a timeframe for re-applying, the answer was something about when I'm more confident in my practice and being able to give good examples of it.)
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
I don't think I've ever been interviewed for a job that I wouldn't have taken if offered;
I have interviewed for a couple of jobs where it became clear in the course of the interview that the job they wanted doing wasn't quite the same as the one they advertised for, and I didn't want what they actually wanted (one job would have involved commuting back and forth between two locations on a very much more frequent basis than they had suggested, the other was an advert for a job doing A and B, where I applied on the basis that I wanted to do lots of A, and could learn a bit of B, which discussions prior to the interview had suggested would be OK, but by the time of the interview, it had become "we want you to spend most of your time on B, and we'll let you do a little bit of A.)
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Yes, that rings many bells! I've been interviewed for jobs that have turned out to be quite different to what I was told (by someone on the panel...) before the interview that made me apply on more than one occasion. The particular example I'm thinking of it turns out they had a candidate in mind (who I briefly worked with elsewhere...) who was pretty much a shoo-in. Having been blatantly misled by said person on panel, I was very pleased when their chosen candidate fell pregnant within six months of taking the job, and they then had to recruit maternity cover.
Why do people do it? I guess that the role could change, but to me it just undermines any trust that I might have.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zoey:
So how often do interviewers say to failed candidates that they'd be welcome to apply again in the future?
I've only been an interviewer once, but on that occasion there was one really outstanding person whom we weren't able to appoint, and we really strongly encouraged her to apply again for future vacancies. I think I would see being told that as a positive. In particular coupled with the detailed feedback they've given you (about bigging yourself up more etc), it sounds to me like they would be really keen to hire you but on the day there was just someone who gave more robust answers. They've just told you what to do in order to hopefully make yourself that person for next time.
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719
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Posted
I would never say to a candidate that they would be welcome to apply for other jobs if they wouldn't be. So take it as a promising sign.
Posts: 3259 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Oh well, I suppose having one job worth applying for being advertised makes a nice change. It'd be more of the same (without the nutjob boss), but three and a half years funding would at least mean I don't need to panic regarding things like a mortgage. It was a bit startling today to discover that the Departmental Administrator wasn't sure what the implications of being on an open-ended contract when the funding ran out were... especially as currently that's in six months time!
I really, really have to get stuck into networking on LinkedIn... but how the bloody hell do I come across as being desperately excited by Prof Whelkfelcher's research on terpenes in cardiac arrythmia in the lesser spotted haddock louse when really and truly what excites me is the prospect of doing something useful? Vague concepts like that are getting me precisely nowhere! How do I sound as though I care when I've had it bashed out of me?
Must also try a speculative application to the local diabetes care company...
Meanwhile, I shall just continue tearing out my liver with a spoon because it's more pleasurable and less painful than trying to change career.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
What would you find useful, Sandemaniac?
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
OK, that was an inchoate blart brought on by looking at job ads on a Friday afternoon...
However the one thing I desperately feel in need of is a clue!
I'm in a hole. The only way up from it where I am now is into admin or management, neither of which appeals. I've spent long enough beating myself up for needing to do something that I care about that either of those is just going to depress me further. I want to be doing something with a purpose - curing illness, that sort of thing - but after the best part of twenty years in it, basic research just bores me witless. Being in a post entirely without purpose is probably jaundicing my views at the mo, maybe just a better environment would help, but it's been a long time... and I'm fighting people younger, keener and cheaper to employ than me for a very limited number of posts.
There doesn't seem to be a similar level of role outside academia in industry which is a sod as I'd like to do that - especially working for a small company or a start up where I'd get to have a finger in a great many pies, do all sorts if stuff as needed. Did I mention I'm also tied to one area of the country as well? That's in a UK sense, not a North American sense, so a much smaller area. Without years of industry experience all I can find offered is technician jobs at maybe 75% of what I'm on now, trying to buy a house in one of the most expensive parts of Britain... and who will recruit an obviously over-experienced person, who isn't likely to stay five minutes...
So what else could I do? Everything that interests me is of minimal career potential, or has major obstacles - eg I am incredibly excited by space travel but have the maths skills of a fruitbat. I cannot teach children - the emotional blarter coming through on the screen isn't that far from the real me, I've no hard outer shell that's so needed for teachers (anecdote: Two sets of people, those who say I'd make a great teacher, those who tell me to not go near it. One set is exclusively made up of people who know me well and have taught children in schools. The other isn't. Guess which one is which).
I could probably handle adult education as I have spent a lot of time training people at work and mostly loved it (having said that, we've just had the two worst students I've ever known come through, disaster areas both).
What gets me going is making stuff work, getting things done, helping people, doing Good Things, being useful. Total disconnnect there from Prof Whelkfelcher's research, going on and on for years and never producing anything other than paper. I suspect I'm not necessarily actually that bothered by what field it's in - baut having done science for so long, that's all I know.
Right, I must stop there because I'm going away for the weekend - hence it'll be at least 48 hours before I answer any questions.
Any useful fuel for thought there?
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Have you considered moving sideways into healthcare ? Depending on your age there is funded training in various fields. What salary range are you looking for ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
I am hearing an interest in applied research rather than pure research. Are there any pharmaceutical companies in your area?
[ 21. November 2014, 19:09: Message edited by: Caissa ]
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
... how the bloody hell do I come across as being desperately excited by Prof Whelkfelcher's research on terpenes in cardiac arrythmia in the lesser spotted haddock louse when really and truly what excites me is the prospect of doing something useful? ...
Declaration of interest: I work for a geneticist specialising in cardiac arrhythmia. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I know you're being somewhat facetious, but research into cardiac arrhythmia can be very useful. Have you considered genetics - either research or genetic counselling? I'm not a scientist (more of a typist really: I produce family trees on a computer program), but I can see the value of my boss's research, which can lead to advice about potentially life-saving treatment.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
OK... that was a longer weekend than planned, being marooned at my parents for an extra night owing to flooded roads... but I'll try to take the points in order of appearance.
Doublethink: I had not particularly thought of healthcare, as I never registered my degree with whatever the qualifying body is called this week. At the very least I should investigate the existence of training schemes, though. Hopefully being in my early forties isn't too late... Salary-wise I'm on 28K at the mo, which I don't particularly want to go much below without the likelihood of considerable potential for advancement (if we don't get a mortgage very soon, we'll never get one).
Caissa: Exactly! I live in a large dark blue university city surrounded by science parks and companies of varying sizes, but I fall into a gap. Without a PhD or the alarming length of industry experience being asked for at the moment all I am going to be able to try for is low level tech roles, for which I am hugely overqualified and I know from conversations with agencies they can't get anyone to take my CV seriously as they assume I'll just leave the moment something else turns up. That and the salaries for such roles top out at 6K less than I am on now - I have taken that sort of hit before to have a job, any job, but as a career move, those roles are a non-starter.
On Thursday I will be going to one of the local Bioscience Network's networking events, but it's a total lottery as to who will be represented there - it might all be people like me looking for jobs, or it might all be medical writing firms, or IT consultancies - I wish there was a way of seeding who was turning up!
Piglet: My boss is an "expert" on congenital heart disease, but a total disaster area as an employer and researcher, should have picked this up before I took the post, but I was in one of those situations where you have to take what you can get. If I could remember any genetics any more...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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