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Source: (consider it) Thread: Animal companions in our happy homes
churchgeek

Have candles, will pray
# 5557

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Her ashes arrived today. While I wait to decide where to keep them until I decide what to do with them, they're in a bag (they were delivered in a paper bag...which we all know cats love!) under my dresser where she'd been sleeping lately (there's a heater vent under there, another thing cats love). Since I keep expecting her to be there, especially when I walk into my room, it seems appropriate enough.

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I reserve the right to change my mind.

My article on the Virgin of Vladimir

Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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What colour was she churchgeek?

We'd love to do you a tea light holder with her name on, like the one on my 'Room' blog x


My Guide Dog supervisor visited us yesterday, she was with us nearly two hours!

We went for a walk round a shop so that she can see how Mollie's shop training is going.

Mollie ticked all the boxes. She's gaining weight well and is healthy and lively. She has no food aggression (they always test for that in the first visit) and she's learning 'sit' 'down' and 'upsit' - she waits for her dinner really well (must do a video!)

My supervisor says she wees too many times in an hour so I need to wait 'till her bladder is full before I take her out. Easier said than done lol! The fine line between asking her to go outside often (which she's really good at now) and letting her bladder fill up so that she asks to go out herself and her bladder capacity grows is not an easy one!

Round the shops Mollie is beginning to get moving rather than sit looking around but I was getting in the habit of using treats to coax her and that's not a good idea, so I'm working on using an encouraging voice and purposeful walk to encourage her. Even at this young age (9 weeks) they are learning to walk round shops, ignoring bits on the floor and all other distractions. She's doing really well for her age. Of course, my worry is widdles and poos so I go to shops which have an outside space no other dogs are allowed in, quite a lot have little 'garden centre' area. I've only ever had one indoor accident in shops with five pups - so I want to keep up that record! Also, it sets up a really good habit and expectation in the pups [Smile]

She's fast asleep now - she sleeps a LOT!!

Still no crocapup!! - she's gentle with her teeth and snoozes the evening away until I wake her up to play before bed. Touch wood I've got a rare non-crocador!

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Baker
Shipmate
# 18458

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
My cat Tobermorey was adopted from the Scottish Fold Rescue organization. I decided that a Fold needed to be named after a single malt. He has all the catly instincts but is effete, and now slowed by arthritis. I have to pick him up to lift him to join me in bed.

I am so glad to find someone else with a cat named Tobermory!!! I had a cat with that name for thirteen years. Of course he was named for the cat in H.H. Munro's classic short story. If you want I could send his food and water bowl with his name printed on it. I had it special made for him from folks who do it for a cat rescue group. When Toby passed I couldn't just throw it away.

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Ad astra per aspera

Posts: 108 | From: Tottering-on-the-Brink | Registered: Aug 2015  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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I would love it, but I live in the US and the postage would probably be brutal.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Baker
Shipmate
# 18458

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Well, I live in the US too! It m ight not be too bad. Let me know if you change your mind!

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Ad astra per aspera

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jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:

In July I drove twenty miles each way for three weeks to feed and medicate Cubby, a sweet twelve-year-old white and tabby cat. He has just been diagnosed with an incurable (and painful) disease. [Waterworks] He will be making his final journey to the Rainbow Bridge on Wednesday. Please pray for M and D and their children. M has had Cubby since he was a kitten, well before she met her husband.

I saw Cubby's human yesterday. She and her little son were on their way to buy a kitten (or two! BOGO!!) M had thought she couldn't let another kitty into her life and endure the pain of losing a beloved pet again. I was tickled to hear her so enthusiastic about adopting two kitties!

BTW, Cubbie was named for the Chicago Cubs baseball team. I told M that he was the angel that propelled the Cubs to win the World Series shortly after he went to the Rainbow Bridge, which is exactly what she had been thinking, too! [Big Grin]

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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My old, diabetic cat, Mickey, died on Thanksgiving evening, about an hour after a nice meal of shredded turkey and her last insulin injection. She was really only terribly ill for about two days, moaning from time to time and incontinent. I'm glad now that our vet was out of town for the holiday because I know I would have taken him in, and that would have just frightened him and probably only stretched the misery out -- his blood sugar had been in 500's the last visit a few weeks ago.

I miss him about twenty times a day, but my dog you guys! My little dachshund adored her cat, he has always been there throughout her life, yet every sighting was newly thrilling, every opportunity to stretch out on his fat tummy and lick down his throat was taken.(So weird to see.)

Now she wont quit searching for Mickey, even making me get up at night for a look outside if she hears anything, checking under the trees and shrubs. Sigh. It's breaking my old, cold heart.

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Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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So sorry for you both.

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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Sorry to hear that, Twilight - prayers ascending for you (and your wee dog).

RIP Mickey. [Tear]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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Dogs have such faithful hearts. My daughter had a cat and a Great Dane. The Dane loved the cat, who did not at all reciprocate. When the cat died the dog was heartbroken. He went and lay down on her grave. And when my daughter had us take the cat food/dishes away, the dog was frantic. "Oh no! they're taking her DISH, my God, this is terrible!"

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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Oh, Brenda. I love a Great Dane, I can just picture that. The last few years, we had to take Mickey to the vet about once a month to have his blood sugar tested, and as soon as we would get the crate out Maggie would start to panic, once the cat was loaded in the car Maggie would throw her head back and bay. They were the only times I would remember that the hund in dachshund means hound.
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jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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Twilight and Maggie and little Mickey. [Votive]

I have a friend who was owned by two cats, Mickey and Maggie! Mickey went to the Rainbow Bridge a few months ago. [Votive]

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
MaryLouise
Shipmate
# 18697

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I have a Great Dane who is now five years old, along with two small rescue dogs who are half-Pomeranian and seven years old. They have never cared for him at all, ignore him or growl at him if he tries to lie down near them. He adores them, gets distressed when they go off to Paws & Claws Dog Salon to be washed and trimmed and runs to greet them when they return. It is sad to watch his attempts to befriend them or attract their attention, but also very funny.

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“As regards plots I find real life no help at all. Real life seems to have no plots.”

-- Ivy Compton-Burnett

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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My daughter's dog tried to play with the cat, to wash her, to sleep with her. She would have none of it -- it was like watching Pepe LePew trying to woo the lady skunk. The solution may be to get a kitten to be raised with the dog.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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Oh dear ... at a routine visit to the vet for our three dogs an agressive tumour was discovered on one of them, Bonnie ... off to the national rolls royce of veterinary hospitals tomorrow.

Here's hoping we're early enough ... but sadly I have my doubts.

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927

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Oh Zappa, I hope you are in time too. Not good news at all for everyone. [Votive]

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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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[Votive] Bonnie

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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For Bonnie to have excellent treatment and a healthy future. [Votive]

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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[Votive] For Bonnie and those who love her.

[coding - WW]

[ 13. December 2016, 23:35: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]

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Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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{{{Zappa and Bonnie}}} [Votive]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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**bump**

Just dropping in to report on progress re: cat-sitting. I was tidying up the kitchen last night and heard the furore of turbo-charged cat coming from the dining-room. When I went to investigate, she was chasing a mouse (I don't think there had been any in the house up till now). They sped off into the sitting-room (which we don't really use - there's a TV den upstairs) and I decided to leave them to it.

When I came down this morning to get lunch ready, I went through the sitting-room and found the corpse of the executed mouse on the rug in front of the fireplace. It looked a bit odd, as though it had either already started to decompose, or she'd tried to eat it and spat it out ... [Eek!]

Having disposed of it, I wasn't sure whether to be cross or grateful, and decided on grateful - after all, we don't really want the wee buggers chasing round the place.

I'm really getting quite fond of her (the cat, not the mouse) - she seems to have taken to us quite well, and she can be very affectionate when she's in the mood. I'm not at the stage where I'd want one of my own, but I think I'll miss her when we move out.

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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I have a black cat who is a deadly huntress, an instinctive killer. Her favorite prey is voles (field mice), which haunt the local bird feeders. She has cleaned out all the ones in our yard and now obliges the neighbors. There was a period of time when she was bringing back a vole a day. She lays them neatly on the front step, always in a place where your foot is most likely to descend, and her due is the right front leg, which she neatly gnaws off. The rest is for us, her family, to divide. My husband has the melancholy duty of picking the thing up with a trowel and flinging it into the deep brush. The next day a new one would appear, and I began to wonder -- is the cat simply fetching the tossed vole and laying it back down on the step? So one day I carefully marked the vole, on a back foot, with a blue Sharpie, before disposal. The next day there was the usual rodent on the step. It had no blue dot/ We were getting a new, fresh vole every day.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Kittyville
Shipmate
# 16106

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The Lovely Lionel of blessèd memory, my fabulous black and white cat who died late last year, was also a tremendous hunter. Less consistency in the amount of tribute, though. Sometimes just a muzzle and a paw. When he had kidney trouble, he had to go on a low protein diet. The problem was, as I told the vet, if he didn't feel that sufficient protein was on offer at home, he, ahem, made his own arrangements.
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MaryLouise
Shipmate
# 18697

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This brings back such bitter-sweet memories of my little cat Ginger Chops who would wait until I was lying in the bath with a book before dropping maimed and wriggling lizards, rain spiders and even a frog into the bathwater near my submerged feet. The resulting shrieks and splashy scramble was gratifying to him, I suppose.

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“As regards plots I find real life no help at all. Real life seems to have no plots.”

-- Ivy Compton-Burnett

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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Oh MaryLouise, between that story and your prissy little Pomeranians, you have me cracking up this morning. [Big Grin]
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jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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A sign of true love, sharing the wild game with the house people. I'm dying thinking about the gifts being shared in the bath! [Killing me]

Piglet, I'm so glad the kitty and you are becoming friends! I'm wondering if there will be a permanent feline addition to the Piglet household in the future. [Big Grin]

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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We are here again, the ancient cat and i.

Ok, so she is in no pain....eats well, although forgets that she has eaten just as soon as she has left the place where she eats....is using the litter tray fine.....manages to jump up onto a bed or a chair to sleep ( no sleeping in nice cat beds for her, thank-you-very-much-indeed)...

But, she cannot groom herself anymore beyond a desultory face wipe...her coat, even when wipe-washed and groomed, is frankly shabby, i mean all her hair is there, it's just er permanently-tousled....she either sleeps for ages...or...runs all over the house like a kitten......occasionally she limps, but that goes after a while....occasionally she looks as though her hips are out, but a day of rest sees her back to normal....

She is nineteen.
And when last was taken to the vets, because she forgot how to use the litter tray, we discussed how much intervention i would want for her.
In short, not a lot.

So...i know nothing about older cats.
Do you kind people have any hints and tips to help me...to help us?

Many thanks

[ 24. January 2017, 19:03: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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Is she used to be brushed? A gentle daily brushing would smooth the fur and get rid of dead hair.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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(just caught me before leaving for supper preparation...)

Yes she is brushed...loads of hair comes out, but not enough to leave her bald so that's ok.

She quite likes being brushed, but not on her flanks... thighs.... what is the right word for this? She flinches and will tap my hands away briskly.

Does one add anything to elderly cat's hair when brushing??
I really am very ignorant and google is not my friend on this matter as it's either Go To The Vets....or....use this expensive stuff in a bottle. there must be a middle way. Surely?

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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No, just straight brushing is fine. Use a rubber or soft brush, not a wire one. Her skin is probably thin and sensitive, like all old critters. The gentle washing with a damp washcloth is like her own tongue, washing.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
... I'm wondering if there will be a permanent feline addition to the Piglet household in the future. [Big Grin]

I very much doubt it, although even D. is now having Therapeutic Cat Time™ with Tabby sitting on top of the grand piano to be stroked.

She likes to come and sit on the computer desk, occasionally expressing an opinion by having a stroll across the keyboard, and getting hugs.

Part of my problem would be financial - if we had a pet and he/she became ill, I don't think we could afford vets' fees - and part would be emotional - I'd hate it if he/she were in pain, and when The End came I'd be a complete wreck.

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
No, just straight brushing is fine. Use a rubber or soft brush, not a wire one. Her skin is probably thin and sensitive, like all old critters. The gentle washing with a damp washcloth is like her own tongue, washing.

She might like to be stroked with your hand in a damp rubber glove - one of mine did.
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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You should consider pet fostering, then. Being a temporary home for felines, on their way to their permanent situation.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Fredegund
Shipmate
# 17952

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Or not. We've fostered feral kittens until tame enough to go to new homes. Result? We were up to 6 of our own at one point. It hurt too much to let them go, and noone was ever good enough for them.
Posts: 117 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Jan 2014  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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Oh helpful thoughts....thank you everyone.

Sadly after a day away at work and a day out today i've just had a good look....and there is something not right at all about her flanks. the skin area has come up all bumpy and lumpy and she Really won't let me anywhere near that part of her.

It's the vets tomorrow.... yikes.....
[Frown]

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Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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{{Ethne's pussycat}} [Votive]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fredegund
Shipmate
# 17952

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[Votive]
Posts: 117 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Jan 2014  |  IP: Logged
Baker
Shipmate
# 18458

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quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
They had just brought down a bad guy who, even though the deputy told him to stop, started running away. Bad and dumb move. Samson loves to catch bad guys! And so he did!

I know this is replying to an old post but I wanted to repeat something my mother told me.

She arrived home to find her back door slightly ajar. So she didn't go in and called the police. It was a K-9 unit that responded. The officer went to the door and called in that the police had arrived. No response so he sent in the dog. Turns out nobody was there. The human officer said that sometimes crooks will not respond to a human, but if they call in that the dog is ready, the crook will come out with their hands up, more afraid of the dog than the person.

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Ad astra per aspera

Posts: 108 | From: Tottering-on-the-Brink | Registered: Aug 2015  |  IP: Logged
Dormouse

Glis glis – Ship's rodent
# 5954

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A while back I mentioned that our lovely George cat had gone walkabout and not returned. Sadly he still hasn't come back, but we have acquired another ginger-and-white boy...Someone had taken in a friendly g-&-w cat and called us thinking it might be George. We went to see, and, although it wasn't George, he was very friendly. We said we'd look after him while trying to find owner -- posters around the village (Mairie, bakers, supermarket, vets), and also ads on three Lost Cat sites have brought no response so it looks like his stay is becoming permanent.

We have called him Jasper - not such a good idea as one tends to start with the right sound but call him George by mistake. They are similar! He will be getting his balls lopped off soon - we hope this may mean fewer ructions, as the other cats are finding it hard to accept this newcomer. He and Pomme left huge amounts of fur on the salon floor this morning through a very noisy spat.

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What are you doing for Lent?
40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk

Posts: 3042 | From: 'twixt les Bois Noirs & Les Monts de la Madeleine | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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Even after the excision the effects of the hormones may last a while, so peace may not reign in hour household for some weeks. Do you use Feliway, or some of the other cat calming agents?

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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Well.

Arthritis in one back hip and matting (of only a few small areas.)

The first is being dealt with by cheap as chips pain control (Just as long as the blood tests come back alright....please dear Lord..).

The second is being treated by me at home, after the vet showing us how to strip out the under fur. Our cat loathes this and is not above batting my hand away, but so far so good.

Phew.
And Thanx

Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755

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On a proud pet owner note as we near our second year with our 6-8 year old border collie and Jack rescue mix, Molly. I am pleased to announce that Miss Molly knows, Go to your spot ( a place on the hall rug she waits when door bell rings.) sit, stay, come, lay down, up, and her newest trick over when she jumps high over a broom handle I hold out. She also knows bed, nap, go to the chair, sit for a treat, and look out the window. A sheer genius I know. She does not understand fetch and seems very puzzled why I would throw a perfectly good ball away across the yard. [Confused] All of this and she also warns of the danger of certain death by package delivery when big brown UPS delivery truck is anywhere in the neighborhood. So happy we rescued her.
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Huia
Shipmate
# 3473

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Georgie-Porgy is missing in action. Last seen eating breakfast at 8.30 am, usually has tea around 5pm - it's now 10.30pm [Waterworks]

Huia

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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.

Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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[Votive] For safe return of Georgie-Porgy. (((Huia)))

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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OK
[Help]

So the under-fur dealing-with (small patches of matting as she can't groom and i hadn't dealt with those bits properly) is gong ahead....i've had expert tuition from the vet.....yet our cat is currently batting away my hands and if i continue, is attempting to bite me.

It is not hurting her, she Would be scratching me were that the case. I've had her nineteen years and am well aware of the variety of ways in which she shows her displeasure! Biting is reserved for "I really don't like this"...and not...."it hurts."

Do i just continue..... and wear gloves?
Pay £60 for a veterinary nurse to deal with it?
Or what?

Hints.
Tips.

Many thanks

[ 05. February 2017, 12:35: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]

Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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{{{Huia and Georgie-Porgy}}} [Votive]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Huia
Shipmate
# 3473

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Ethne, I would try to weigh up such factors as whether my budget could handle it, how big the problem was and whether I felt up to taking on or would use the vet's training to blitz her tangles regularly once the nurse had sorted the current problem. I once had to keep a cat inside and give him pills for a few days. After he has successfully escaped twice (broken window catch) and we had fought over the pills I took him back to the vets and asked that they keep him in their hospital for a few days.

As for Georgie-Porgy, little ratbag strolled in at 3.30am. I am wondering if she ate elsewhere because she wasn't demanding food. She did eat her usual amount for breakfast though, so I don't she doesn't seem unwell.

I know a few hours late isn't much, and if it was the late Sam I wouldn't have worried, but Georgie has very regular habits.

Huia

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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.

Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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Glad G-P is back. She was probably miffed that you blamed her for the collapsing bed and threatened to put her on a diet.

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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Ethne Alba and Ancient Cat [Votive]

Glad for the return of GP!

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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Glad to hear G-P came back safely. Fortunately for us, Tabby is very definitely an Indoor Cat; she'll only go out as far as the back deck. At current temperatures (at the moment -10° but feeling like -17) she won't stay out for long - just long enough to put the wind up the birdies and make sure they know whose deck it is. [Big Grin]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged



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