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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » All Saints   » Is there such a thing as an anniversary when you aren't married? (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Is there such a thing as an anniversary when you aren't married?
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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Thanks for the comments. We cannot it seems do happy just now. Trying. Spent the Thanksgiving long weekend (Canadian one was Oct 9) with them at our cabin. We did fine with them. I have to mind myself quite closely and not engage in some aspects of conversation, wee bit less relaxing than would like. When we got home on Monday, my wife and I looked at each other and we're not sure who became teary first. It is finalitude for both of us it seems. Elements of joy and of pain. We also discussed the deaths of our parents (one of 4 is alive), friends whose funerals we've attended in 2017, wonder as time progresses if we'll ever have grandchildren - something which looks dimmer all the time. And then we booked a winter holiday. It's not profound, but we came up with "what can you do?"
Posts: 11064 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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We have the families we have, not the families we want.

I would have liked to have a father who ever - even once - showed me affection, but I didn't. I would have like to have a mother who'd ever read a book or could discuss ideas, but I didn't.

And I'm sure they would have liked to have a daughter more dutiful, less contrary, better tempered, who got married and had children - but they didn't.

For some years I remembered birthdays, sent cards, bought thoughtful presents at Christmas - because that is what I had seen proper families do. But it never caught on.

We are as we are. As they say at Home, sure it could all be worse.

Posts: 17244 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
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# 13815

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And in your case NP, be glad that you son and his partner are happy together and have formed what appears to be a solid long term relationship. And accept that it is their life not yours that they are living.

BTW, have you ever met her parents?

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Dennis the Menace
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# 11833

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We have been together for 37 years and as a same sex couple we acknowledge our 'anniversary' but don't celebrate! This year we forgot and was reminded of it when K sister sent a text for a happy anniversary!

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"Till we cast our crowns before Him; Lost in wonder, love, and praise."

Posts: 837 | From: Newcastle NSW Australia | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
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# 13815

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What will you do when we at long last get around to marriage equality - have your legal marriage on the anniversary day?

[ 18. October 2017, 02:14: Message edited by: Gee D ]

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Augustine the Aleut
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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
What will you do when we at long last get around to marriage equality - have your legal marriage on the anniversary day?

If we are to emulate Benedict XVI's provision for Anglican priests crossing the Tiber and getting (re)ordained, where they keep the anniversary of their Anglican priesting as their anniversary, then the legal tidy-up day is not kept as the anniversary; rather, the initial anniversary is, as that's where the commitment first happened.

Apologies for the convoluted sentence.

Posts: 6137 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dennis the Menace
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# 11833

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
What will you do when we at long last get around to marriage equality - have your legal marriage on the anniversary day?

Mmm.. good question.. Celebrate both is my immediate thought

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"Till we cast our crowns before Him; Lost in wonder, love, and praise."

Posts: 837 | From: Newcastle NSW Australia | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
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# 17338

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We finally got around to a 'proper' marriage some years after the children were born. Before that we had an anniversary of when we'd decided that we were a couple and foresaw the relationship going the distance.

When we married we chose a date in the summer partly because we envisaged a silver wedding party - or at least a 10 year one - in the garden; sadly we didn't get to that stage.

Anyway, I used to remember both, the other-half forgot both.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

Posts: 4680 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Does marriage involve just the couple?
Posts: 11064 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Leaf
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no prophet's flag is set so...: I guess you can keep making yourself miserable if you want. But I'm starting to wonder why you keep picking at this.

Is it because you have some other underlying tension in your relationship with your son which you, at some level, hope could be bridged if he married?

Is it because you are feeling some loss of control in other areas of your own life, and somehow your son's marriage would bring you some feelings of consolation and reassurance?

Have you explored more about what this has to do with your slightly complicated relationship with your own father?

I dunno, man. I think you were further ahead when you and your partner said to each other, "Eh, what are you going to do?" Grieve and let it go. Celebrate who they are, not who you wish they would be.

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Jane R
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Dennis the Menace:
quote:
Mmm.. good question.. Celebrate both is my immediate thought
Seems reasonable to me. We celebrate both our wedding anniversary and our engagement anniversary. Other Half has also floated the idea of celebrating the anniversary of the date we first met. Any excuse for a celebration, is our view. The three dates are conveniently spaced (February, May, November) but not from design; that's just how it worked out.

We don't expect anyone else to join in with our celebrations (unless invited, as when we had a party for our 25th wedding anniversary) but we don't make a secret of them either...

Posts: 3932 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927

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Sounds good, Jane.

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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.

Posts: 9449 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
no prophet's flag is set so...: I guess you can keep making yourself miserable if you want. But I'm starting to wonder why you keep picking at this.

Is it because you have some other underlying tension in your relationship with your son which you, at some level, hope could be bridged if he married?

Is it because you are feeling some loss of control in other areas of your own life, and somehow your son's marriage would bring you some feelings of consolation and reassurance?

Have you explored more about what this has to do with your slightly complicated relationship with your own father?

I dunno, man. I think you were further ahead when you and your partner said to each other, "Eh, what are you going to do?" Grieve and let it go. Celebrate who they are, not who you wish they would be.

It isn't misery, not nearly that. Perhaps you can imagine that this is something that gets revisited, with a sense of what might be or might have been? It's what some older adults do. And that at times it ebbs to everything is just fine, and then again to it isn't. It wasn't just fine when I posted the thread. And wasn't when we returned from Thanksgiving.

I did explain above that I understand mine and my family history well and its influence: that my father's family was killed except for one other, a cousin, and that this greatly affected him and in turn me. My children are not affected by this history, and not I see that shielding this has effects, but it was still right to do it. We don't have the sins experienced by the father passed unto the 5th or whatever generation. It dies here. But may I feel about it, or must I deceive myself?

It came up also when we lost my wife's parents and my mother in close time, also my best friend; with the loss of a prior best friend 30 years ago.. I am also connected to the loss of 13 people on a wilderness trip a decade before then. I understand the poignancy of life, death, and the patterns beyond myself too well for my own wellbeing, or think that I do. It was reinforced yet again when another of our children, as an adult, at work, was attacked, brutally assaulted (yes, that) and left for dead one beautiful morning. So the family history trauma, and of loss, my life trauma, our life trauma: it's all there in front of us. But no, we don't need more professional help; this is merely developmental. . I am working on two major projects which aim at playing things forward. And no, it isn't about control of life, we are both successful, money isn't an issue. Am I tedious here?

Sure I will come again to accept and put it away, and then it will return: the raising of this as an anniversary pushed my buttons. Is that so bizarre? The wound will heal again, but I'll not deny that it is a wound and something I feel. And that some aspects of how things are aren't to my preference. God giveth and taketh and we don't know what or how. Perhaps it takes understanding the integrative principle of violence and trauma as lived, I don't know. I'm being tedious I think.

Posts: 11064 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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Not tedious, just a little hard to understand [Smile]

What do you think marriage would give your son and his family that they don’t already have?

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 12661 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Based on feelings.

It isn't what marriage gives to the couple. It is what it gives to others.

Posts: 11064 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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I was in a social gathering one time when someone remarked that most of the people in the room were married - just not to the person they were with.

I should say the unions referred were no longer legally extant afaik, but it was interesting that so many of us had done the expected, public, familial thing and it hadn't been the gateway to lifelong happiness as advertised.

I am of the opinion that no one should marry below the age of 50. You can, of course, cohabit, beget offspring etc if you wish, but promises to love and cherish until death do you are a lot more convincing if you've already survived a couple of decades of chucking saucepans.

Never mind throwing the do for the rellies - they're not going to be around when you're sat waiting for the oncology appointments.

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Piglet
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# 11803

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
... It isn't what marriage gives to the couple. It is what it gives to others.

I think I'd have to disagree there. First, a disclaimer: I've been happily married to the same bloke for nearly 30 years, which I'm sure delighted all our respective parents.

But in all honesty, it seems to me that the very worst possible reason for getting married would be to please other people.

Marriage is a contract between two people, not something done for the benefit of anyone else.

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 19605 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
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# 13815

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Based on feelings.

It isn't what marriage gives to the couple. It is what it gives to others.

We've recently notched up our 40th anniversary.

You start with "based on feelings" - whose and what please? And surely marriage is for the couple and not others. In any event, your son and his partner have clearly shown the world that they are committed to each other from their decade-long relationship. If some choose not to accept that demonstration, that is scarcely the fault of those in that relationship.

Otherwise what Piglet says.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Gee D
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# 13815

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Or to put it another way.

It's 6 months since the hitherto happy couple got married. There's an argument in he course of which she says: We only got married to please your father, you didn't care for what I thought, and how happy we'd been until then. How would you feel?

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Nicolemr
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I've been trying to post on this thread since it started, but truly I'm so bewildered by your attitude, no prophet, that I can't think of what to say.

Basically, why is it any business of yours if your son and his partner are married or not? If they have been together for 10 years, they are apparently a stable, loving couple, surely that should be what concerns you? I don't understand what any of the stuff about your family background has to do with it. If you could explain better, maybe I could understand and have something constructive to say.

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

Posts: 11656 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
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# 13815

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Totally agree.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Based on feelings.

It isn't what marriage gives to the couple. It is what it gives to others.

What does it give to others?

I have one son who is married and one who isn’t. I can’t think of one thing that the first couple give to others that the second don’t.

The married son took his wife’s name, which really pleased me as it shows how much he cares about equality.

Of the two the unmarried son is more caring about others imo. He works as a nurse and works very hard at having a small carbon footprint, cycling everywhere - including home from Heidelberg! He lives in one room with his partner (also a nurse)

The married son is an airline pilot, has bought a big house, drives a three litre car and is married to a city financier. I love them both dearly, but I know which ‘gives more to other people’ and it’s not the married one!

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Garden. Room. Walk

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North East Quine

Curious beastie
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What I am getting out of this, no prophet, is that your family history has been one of loss and displacement.

As a result, you tried very hard to give your children safety and stability. In doing so, you were able to reassure yourself that this is a world in which safety and stability are possible. But your son, thanks to his inherent feelings of stability, feelings which you and your wife have engendered in him, doesn't feel the need to take on your values re marriage. And you are sad about this.

On a more trivial scale, but analogous I think, was my relationship with my mother-in-law when I married. She married quite young, straight from home and I gather found the first year of marriage / setting up home / housekeeping / etc. bewildering. So she decided that when her own child married, she would help out in every way she could; she would provide the help she would have dearly loved to receive herself. But when I married, I had already lived away from home for seven years. I had absolutely no need for any of the help she was offering.

I'm guessing you want your son to have something you feel you missed out on. I assume that when you married your wife your family history meant that the lack of family to invite hurt. You determined that it would be different for your offspring; when they married it would be in the midst of a supportive and strong family. And now you find that your son doesn't value what yourself would have valued deeply.

Am I close?

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Jane R
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<making a strenuous attempt to see no_prophet's point of view>

Is it that marriage (traditionally) formalises the couple's relationship for the rest of society, and places a duty on the married couple's friends and family to respect and support it?

Because in modern British society, the formal recognition of most relationships seems to begin when couples start living together, or buy a house together. Non-religious couples often delay the wedding until after they've had a child together and the bride has got her pre-baby figure back.

Now, *as a Christian*, I think that is putting the cart before the horse. My Other Half and I did things in the traditional order. As a human being who would like to remain on speaking terms with certain members of her family and any friends who follow contemporary practice, I keep this opinion to myself and treat cohabiting couples with the same consideration for their relationship that I would like to receive for my own.

Our atheist friends who have been together for as long as we have and got married about ten years ago for what they described as 'administrative reasons'.

Our lesbian and gay friends, some of whom are married, some of whom are not.

Our friend's daughter who has just had a baby and is in the process of buying a house with her boyfriend.

Yes, it would be nice if they had all got married at the same stage of their relationships as we did. But they didn't.

Posts: 3932 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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NEQ and Jane R have it pretty well.

Nothing to be done of course as I have noted before. Just cycle through the feelings and put away until raised again.

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BabyWombat
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# 18552

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I will speak of my own experience: my partner, now husband, and I met, grew closer, shared love, an apartment and our livelihood. As gay men there could be no “anniversary” but we marked one as the date we’d first met. (Yes, it was love at first sight, as hackneyed as that sounds). We celebrated it, but did not expect others to do so.

When laws changed, we had a bang-up Civil Union ceremony, noting in the bulletin that it was being held on the day we marked as our 27th anniversary. When laws changed again we got officially married (there was no legal mechanism for a simple upgrade..). We kept the same “anniversary” date, even thought the marriage date was off by a week. Recently celebrated that original date as our 44th anniversary.

Some friends mark the date with a card, good wishes, maybe even dinner out. But blood relatives, supportive and present at the Civil Union, don’t send an anniversary greeting, even though I send greetings to them on their wedding anniversaries, which pre-dated ours. It doesn’t bother us.

What is important for us and perhaps for the couple in the OP is simply that they are recognized in some way as an “item.” They have made that commitment to each other, as does any couple marrying, and it is in the affirming of them and their choices that demonstrates the love. If they have announced a date as their “anniversary” join in raising three cheers for them. It may mean learning a new language of relationship, but that may not be so bad.

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Let us, with a gladsome mind…..

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Gee D
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# 13815

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Well said Baby Wombat - and congratulations to you and your husband on your long relationship overall. We had our 40th anniversary a few weeks ago.

[ 27. October 2017, 02:16: Message edited by: Gee D ]

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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