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Source: (consider it) Thread: Eighth day topics
pimple

Ship's Irruption
# 10635

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Would anyone like to try poetry again? I believe some attempt was made earlier on. If anyone interested could PM me perhaps we could agree the terms of a formal proposal to Ruth.

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In other words, just because I made it all up, doesn't mean it isn't true (Reginald Hill)

Posts: 8018 | From: Wonderland | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Presumably you'd want to have some point of difference from Verseworks ?

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19188 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
pimple

Ship's Irruption
# 10635

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I was thinking of something more along the lines of one thread for each poem, and each poem being the OP - an original piece in any style and on any subject. Something like an open competition but with no prizes - only honest feedback.

The originator to have right of reply after, say, ten posts, or seven days without a comment.

There would need to be a line limit perhaps. The most common limit for competitions is forty lines, because you can get it all on one A4 sheet.

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In other words, just because I made it all up, doesn't mean it isn't true (Reginald Hill)

Posts: 8018 | From: Wonderland | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Well that would be certainly be very different, even with a bent toward supportive comment we found that people were nervous of posting compositions that were not intended to be humourous.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19188 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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That would certainly be a departure from Verseworks - to quote from the Board description:


This is a workshop Board: for scansion, metre, rhyme; for couplets, sonnets, terza rima, villanelle, haiku, pantoum, sestina; for juggling and wrestling and playing and patterning with words until they make a shape.

Subject is secondary, and inspiration not required. It is most emphatically not for pouring out the heart in profuse strains of unpremeditated art.


What you are proposing sounds more like a Writers' Group which is a whole other thing.

Posts: 17249 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555

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I'll put in another thought. Religious verse from Dante and Milton through to T.S.Eliot and Geoffrey Hill.

(For me a board on poetic forms is already covered by books by, for instance, James Fenton and Stephen Fry; and submitting verse explicitly for "crits" was, I think, clearly ruled out by the hosts on the previous poetry 8th day.)

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Refraction Villanelles

Posts: 456 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Part of the inherent problem with a poetry appreciation board is copyright. Although you can link to poems and quote them, it does make such threads very bitty.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19188 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
pimple

Ship's Irruption
# 10635

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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
That would certainly be a departure from Verseworks - to quote from the Board description:


This is a workshop Board: for scansion, metre, rhyme; for couplets, sonnets, terza rima, villanelle, haiku, pantoum, sestina; for juggling and wrestling and playing and patterning with words until they make a shape.

Subject is secondary, and inspiration not required. It is most emphatically not for pouring out the heart in profuse strains of unpremeditated art.


What you are proposing sounds more like a Writers' Group which is a whole other thing.

Yep. That's about it. But totally non-prescriptive.

[ 24. March 2015, 22:37: Message edited by: pimple ]

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In other words, just because I made it all up, doesn't mean it isn't true (Reginald Hill)

Posts: 8018 | From: Wonderland | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
pimple

Ship's Irruption
# 10635

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quote:
Originally posted by agingjb:
I'll put in another thought. Religious verse from Dante and Milton through to T.S.Eliot and Geoffrey Hill.

(For me a board on poetic forms is already covered by books by, for instance, James Fenton and Stephen Fry; and submitting verse explicitly for "crits" was, I think, clearly ruled out by the hosts on the previous poetry 8th day.)

Was the embargo on crits on account of copyright considerations? I'm thinking more of OPers' own compositions.

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In other words, just because I made it all up, doesn't mean it isn't true (Reginald Hill)

Posts: 8018 | From: Wonderland | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555

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I think that it was felt that asking for feedback on one's own verse wasn't a proper function for the Ship.

As for poetry by the great and good, I suppose the method would be roughly that of the monthly book group.

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Refraction Villanelles

Posts: 456 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011  |  IP: Logged
jacobsen

seeker
# 14998

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As I understand it, we could ask for feedback on poetic technique, e.g. scansion, form, rhyme, etc. But not on the poetic "value" of the attempt.

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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

Posts: 7809 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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An 8D experimental board can be run with whatever rules the hosts of that board want (within reason, eg: nothing that will get us in legal hot water). I wasn't part of the conversation setting up Verseworks, so can't comment on the hosts thinking there. But, in Heaven convention is that people don't ask for specific feedback on their poetry. Heaven (and, the rest of the Ship) doesn't exist to help aspiring poets produce better work. The same goes for aspiring novelists, worship song writers or anything else.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 32134 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555

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Yes, it's clear that the opinions of shipmates about great and good poets are of far more value and interest than the opinions about the verse of other shipmates (with the possible exception of the value to the actual author).

I suppose the problem is access to the verse of any poet, and copyright just makes it more difficult. I just can't guess how extensively other people's bookshelves are filled.

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Refraction Villanelles

Posts: 456 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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I've clocked a good many writing groups/ courses/ workshops/ retreats in my time, and IME the dynamic of the unmoderated sort is that you find something positive to say about other people's offerings so that when its Your Turn you will get equally flattering feedback. It is fatally hollowed out by the pressure to be nice rather than honest, and dies from its own unreality.

The more useful sort has an acknowledged authority - aka The Published Writer - who is allowed to (tactfully) offer criticism.

In the absence of such a one, there is the method trialled in Verseworks of a technical challenge, which acts as an impersonal critique. Attempting it causes you to raise your game and, IME, gain more insight into how you could improve than any amount of vague praise from a random stranger.

Posts: 17249 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
pimple

Ship's Irruption
# 10635

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Good points, Firenze. I've had more luck with writing groups who are interested in better poetry. I've also left ones where mutual intellectual masturbation held sway. God and his hosts forbid that should sully these boards! I think my proposal is a none starter. Pity. A place that has no poetry is like a place without music. Pretty bleak.

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In other words, just because I made it all up, doesn't mean it isn't true (Reginald Hill)

Posts: 8018 | From: Wonderland | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by pimple:
A place that has no poetry is like a place without music. Pretty bleak.

I agree, but I think the ship has poetry and music. The only thing is that this is spread across the boards, infusing the entire ship with poetic inspiration.

In some ways, I think that is better than a dedicated corner to discuss and debate, which always risks becoming cranio-rectal.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18648 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
pimple

Ship's Irruption
# 10635

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What a lovely word! I go in search of all nine muses. Where can we dance?

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In other words, just because I made it all up, doesn't mean it isn't true (Reginald Hill)

Posts: 8018 | From: Wonderland | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
luvanddaisies

the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761

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quote:
Originally posted by pimple:
Where can we dance?

Here, in Glory...

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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)

Posts: 3680 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Is there anything pending for 8D? I see it's currently unoccupied, and this thread hasn't been posted on since 26 March. Anything coming down the pike?

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

Posts: 63128 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Is there anything pending for 8D? I see it's currently unoccupied, and this thread hasn't been posted on since 26 March. Anything coming down the pike?

Here's the relevant announcement by RuthW.

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Music and sex seemed to have died, as it were.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19188 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Music and sex seemed to have died, as it were.

That happens when you get to my age.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18648 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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I do think that Faith Free has killed 8th day.

Oops.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18648 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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Naw.

Running out of ideas with sufficient volunteers to back it up has it idling for now.

So it goes.

Posts: 15149 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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I propose a Music eighth day board.

I imagine this as a salon-type environment discussing any and everything related to music: playing, listening, uses in culture, hating music, loving music, learning instruments, learning theory, etc. etc. etc.

Why Eighth Day? These discussions could fit into current boards in various ways. But I think there is value in bringing together all who are interested in music in a focused community for the duration of the eighth day board.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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Sounds good! I can't volunteer to help with the Hosting as I'm busy enough with my current duties, but I hope this idea takes off [Smile]

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29893 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216

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If you haven't got sufficient volunteers, I'd like to give it a go, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed. I'm going to travel a bit, especially in August. I'll have some internet access during these travels, but I can't guarantee to be online every day.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

Posts: 9462 | From: UK / Africa / Brazil | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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I would be happy to help host this (but not as the main host - I have done that once!).

I think it is a great idea.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18648 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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I'll help host! Sounds like a great idea!
Posts: 35053 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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LeRoc, thank you for the offer. It looks like with Schroedinger's Cat and Kelly Alves, we have hosting covered. Yes, Schroedinger's Cat and Kelly Alves, I'd love to host with you. Thank you! I'm willing to be the main host.

I gather we need some kind of statement of purpose to submit for consideration/approval. I'll look back through this thread for examples from other boards. Please offer suggestions or proposed statements if you wish.

[ 28. July 2015, 13:57: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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I love this idea. Thanks, Autenrieth Road!

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

Posts: 9463 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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I have all previous submissions saved on my computer at home, so I can pull them up and post them later today. (From my phone on my lunch hour, not so much.)
Posts: 24417 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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I suppose I see the statement of purpose coming from your outline above.

To discuss playing music, whatever style, whatever instrument. Why do you play what you do? How can I learn to play better? What convinces anyone to learn bagpipes?

To discuss listening to music of all sorts. Not in a competitive way, but comparative. What is there in music that you enjoy?

Why do you dislike music? Is it all sorts, or just everything you have listened to so far? Is there too much music in society today - it is in the shops, one the TV, on the phone while waiting. Are we inured to the wonder of music by the ubiquity of banality?

How does music reflect our cultures and sub-cultures? This is not just mods vs rockers, but about how people build their own cliques around styles of music.

Music in church - is any of it any good?

Music theory - do I need to learn any if I am just going to play Hillsong choruses for the rest of my life?

(OK, some of that may reflect my feelings a little too much)

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18648 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Autenrieth Road

Shipmate
# 10509

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Those are great topics, SC.

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Truth

Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
1. whatever style, whatever instrument. Why do you play what you do? How can I learn to play better? What convinces anyone to learn bagpipes?

2. To discuss listening to music of all sorts. Not in a competitive way, but comparative. What is there in music that you enjoy?

An interesting duo of topics, I know a lot of musicians who have a driving need to DO music, not just listen to it. But many more people love to listen. And some do both.

quote:
Is there too much music in society today - it is in the shops, one the TV, on the phone while waiting. Are we inured to the wonder of music by the ubiquity of banality?

How does music reflect our cultures and sub-cultures?

I really hadn't thought about societal causes and effects of music. Interesting topic.

quote:
Music in church - is any of it any good?

Music theory - do I need to learn any if I am just going to play Hillsong choruses for the rest of my life?

I suggest leaving church music out of the specific topic, not banning mention of it - talk of what effect does music have on society or society on music could certainly include church music examples. But on the Ship might an invitation to say "what I really think of Hillsong" threaten to take over the discussion without getting into any depth of the musical or emotional cause effect of the music itself (not just the lyrics)?
Posts: 5826 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Music in church - is any of it any good?

Music theory - do I need to learn any if I am just going to play Hillsong choruses for the rest of my life?

I suggest leaving church music out of the specific topic, not banning mention of it - talk of what effect does music have on society or society on music could certainly include church music examples. But on the Ship might an invitation to say "what I really think of Hillsong" threaten to take over the discussion without getting into any depth of the musical or emotional cause effect of the music itself (not just the lyrics)?
I think you have an important point. I was getting to the end of the points, and bored. I think some discussion of church music might be relevant, but I would agree that anything bordering on "Crappy choruses" would be out of scope.

"Do I need to learn theory?" is valid, even if not the specific issue I raised. There are other related areas, like "should I learn to read music" etc.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18648 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351

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Schroedinger's Cat:
quote:
Music theory - do I need to learn any if I am just going to play Hillsong choruses for the rest of my life?
Well, you should at least learn your pentatonic scale and relative minors if you're an electric guitarist [Biased]

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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

Posts: 1392 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged


 
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