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Source: (consider it) Thread: Auction introduction and questions
IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700

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I think there should be some mechanism to avoid ebay-type last second sniping. Otherwise this will be boring right up till the last day of the auction. I don't really know what to suggest though... Maybe some sort of "auctioneer's tax" that increases the closer we get to the end? Or maybe rather than ending all auctions on a fixed date and at a fixed time, just pick the closing point at random from a number of days and times. That way as soon as we get into "end range" people will bid for fear of having the auction end without their bids. Other ideas anyone?

[ 22. August 2005, 04:52: Message edited by: IngoB ]

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Yes. The solution is to bid what you are willing to pay. Then if somebody outbids you (and it matters not a whit when they do it), it is because they were willing to pay more than you were. Which is how an auction should work anyway: the person willing to pay the most, gets the goods.

I don't see any problem. People bidding at the last minute on eBay are morons. If they bid more than they're willing to pay (or less than they're willing to pay, if they really really want the item), that's stupid; and if they bid what they are willing to pay, it shouldn't matter when they do it.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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What? Change the rules in the middle of the game? [Devil]

Get ready for The Battle of the Broadbands! I wonder if my 6/mbs cable can smoke your 33.6/kbs dialup? Let's see.. better check the ping rate and trace route.

Response in .086 second, 8 hops [one through a sattelite no doubt] I'm thinking the locals in the UK might have a few millisecond advantage being closer. *sigh* What's a geek sniper to do?

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--Formerly: Gort--

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Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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The people with the biggest advantage in the last few minutes are likely to be the Australians, for whom it will be late evening, prime surfing time (except for those logging in from work). For the Brits it will be midday (not too bad if you have work access) while for the Americans it will some time of day that generally I don’t want to be awake at. But there’s nothing to be done about the time zone issue.

And if folk are here just to win and get a number I don’t think there a lot to be done to stop a last minute rush, apart from post-auction mockery.

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700

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Mousethief, the difference between theory and practice is rather costly on ebay. Why don't you try the free and excellent JBidWatcher for a while and then come back and tell us whether sniping is actually useless or not...

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Not Too Bad
Shipmate
# 8770

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Can I pay by Paypal?

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Suppose we have only dreamed and made up these things like sun, sky, stars, and moon, and Aslan himself. In that case, it seems to me that the made-up things are a good deal better than the real ones

Posts: 779 | From: Norfolk | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Mousethief, the difference between theory and practice is rather costly on ebay. Why don't you try the free and excellent JBidWatcher for a while and then come back and tell us whether sniping is actually useless or not...

An auction is not a game. It is a way of purchasing merchandise or services. If somebody else wants it more than I do, and it willing to pay more than I am, then they should win it, whether they bid the same day I do, or in the last 30 seconds. I don't at all understand what your complaint is. Not at all. Zip. Zilch. Zero. What's the problem?

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654

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Can we make joint bids, or help someone else out as a way of contributing?

For example, say it becomes obvious that persons A and B are the only ones bidding on a certain number, and it's got to the level of value that no-one else can compete with.

Can we gang up and join in, with various people bidding extra on top of person A's highest bid, and others trying to help B out by pledging an extra amount to B's bids ?

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- insert randomly chosen, potentially Deep and Meaningful™ song lyrics here -

Posts: 9841 | From: further up the Hill | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700

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quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
What's the problem?

Mousethief, ebay auctions are not contested by isolated "rational" players making one bid according to their judgement of the value of an item. Somebody will see your bid and react to it. He may think "Oh, it's apparently worth more than I thought. Maybe I should bid some more." Or he may try to outbid you just for the joy of winning. For that matter, maybe he would have overlooked the item completely if you had not put your money on it. Sniping is all about making such reactions impossible by lack of time, it's about turning ebay into a blind auction by removing information about other bidders from the bidding. Sniping, in fact, turns ebay from what it actually is to what you think it should be.

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
John Donne

Renaissance Man
# 220

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I think sniping works as a bit of an equaliser because of the difference between what someone offers and what they are able to pay.

Eg. A person offers what they're prepared to pay, when in fact they could probably offer more. We don't all have equal means, so what Person A is prepared to pay may be very near the maximum of what Person B is able to pay. Thus Person B hangs around waiting to snipe. If Person A really wants the item they can make it happen... [Angel]

That's the message guys, if you really want the number. Bid big.

Simon already suggested that forming a bidding collective was acceptable and would prolly be healthy from the Ship's perspective.

Personally I find watching sniping very entertaining and have taken the odd snipe on Ebay. (And of course Neopets. [Snigger] )

Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

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quote:
Originally posted by Not Too Bad:
Can I pay by Paypal?

It doesn't appear to be one of the options on the Organ Fund pages.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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When I see an item I want on eBay, I consider what I am willing to pay, usually add 10% (give or take) and make that my bid. If I don't win it, it's because somebody else was willing to pay more. I'm not going to overbid my already-too-high bid just because somebody else finds it a psychological come-on to outbid me. Thus the whole sniping phenomenon is irrelevant to me. If I'm willing to pay $20 for an item, and bid $25, and am outbid, then I'm going to wait for the item to come up again, or do without. I'm certainly not going to hang on the edge of my seat and bid even more than I'm willing to pay just to keep some other jerkoff from winning the auction. I consider it a purchase, not a challenge to my testosterone levels.

[ 23. August 2005, 13:55: Message edited by: Mousethief ]

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by Papa Smurf:
say it becomes obvious that persons A and B are the only ones bidding on a certain number, and it's got to the level of value that no-one else can compete with.

Can we gang up and join in, with various people bidding extra on top of person A's highest bid, and others trying to help B out by pledging an extra amount to B's bids ?

You're not thinking of any number in particular, are you? [Paranoid]

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

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Mousetheif,

Clearly your testosterone challenged then. [Biased] [Biased]

(Totally kidding)

[ 23. August 2005, 13:57: Message edited by: Mad Geo ]

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Yes, I have learned to chill. It's taken me a long time and it was a hard-won fight (o! the paradox!).

I should add that I made $100 off sniping in one of my own auctions, so as a seller I'm delighted it happens. As a buyer, however, it doesn't affect me at all, except in terms of inconvenience (waiting for another item to come up that I've been outbid on).

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169

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I'm considering wait until closer to the end of the auctions. (We still have a very long way to go, you know.) Then, if someone I really like is struggling to maintain their lead in an auction, I may PM them with an offer of additional funds. That way, I can contribute something (since I'm not interested in the numbers), and someone I really like may end up with the number of their dreams.

Will that be acceptable?

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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.

Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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I think there's already consortiums at work. [jlg?]

I may be wrong but I don't think Sine needs help, Grits! [Biased]

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--Formerly: Gort--

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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169

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We all need help, Gort. [Smile]

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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.

Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

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Moi? Consortiuming? Who could think such a thing!
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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I'm inclined to think that if consortiumifying is going then it's time to get out - there are limits to my wallet! [Eek!]

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654

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quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
quote:
Originally posted by Papa Smurf:
say it becomes obvious that persons A and B are the only ones bidding on a certain number, and it's got to the level of value that no-one else can compete with.

Can we gang up and join in, with various people bidding extra on top of person A's highest bid, and others trying to help B out by pledging an extra amount to B's bids ?

You're not thinking of any number in particular, are you? [Paranoid]
No but I was just thinking it might be a way for those of us who can only contribute 30 or 40 dollars to join in the fun when the prices get too high for us.

(when ? [Killing me] now that the prices are too high... [Help] )

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- insert randomly chosen, potentially Deep and Meaningful™ song lyrics here -

Posts: 9841 | From: further up the Hill | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

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quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
I'm inclined to think that if consortiumifying is going then it's time to get out - there are limits to my wallet! [Eek!]

I'm not playing games. Yet.

As I already pointed out, I'm just having fun risking some of my son's college tuition money. [Big Grin]

Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
As I already pointed out, I'm just having fun risking some of my son's college tuition money. [Big Grin]

Money well spent, then. [Smile]

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Simon

Editor
# 1

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quote:
Originally posted by Papa Smurf:
Can we make joint bids, or help someone else out as a way of contributing?

quote:
Originally posted by Grits:
... if someone I really like is struggling to maintain their lead in an auction, I may PM them with an offer of additional funds. That way, I can contribute something (since I'm not interested in the numbers), and someone I really like may end up with the number of their dreams. Will that be acceptable?

The answer to both questions is yes. Consortium bidding or PMing someone to offer financial help is ok by us. However, please note that the person placing a winning bid takes responsibility to buy the Lot and must arrange payment within seven days of the close of the auction. In other words, the bidder alone takes responsibility for his or her bid, even if it's being funded by several people.

Some considerations if you're thinking of forming a consortium:

> Appoint one bidder to avoid confusion.
> Agree a ceiling price in advance, and set a new ceiling if you all decide to go higher.
> Work out how you're going to pay.
> Decide from the start who is going to get the number you're bidding for, or how you're going to choose who gets the number.

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Eternal memory

Posts: 3787 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654

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The scenario I was envisaging was as follows
A and B are "fighting" over a number.

A's highest bid was $250, and B has trumped that by bidding $265

I wade in, saying that I will back up A's highest bid to the tune of $30, making the value of the lot $280.

But then person X might come to the defence of B, and raise B's bid - so the value of the lot has gone up, but it means the original players are not spending any more money. Cue confusion as lots of other people with small budgets "take sides"
[Two face]

Alternatively, I could offer my $30 help to whoever PMs me with the best reason why I shold help them

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- insert randomly chosen, potentially Deep and Meaningful™ song lyrics here -

Posts: 9841 | From: further up the Hill | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

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That's what I was thinking, too.

Unfortunately, throwing random bids out in support of others requires Simon to keep track of who bids what in support of whom; I'm sure he has better things to do.

And offering totally unrestricted support would probably quickly overwhelm one's PM box.

Having pondered this for many days (though not much actual time [Big Grin] ) the only two workable options I see are to:
  • pick your favorite contestant(s) and PM him/her with a vow of a certain dollar amount of base support which that individual can add to.
  • pick a particular number and pledge to pay X dollars in addition to the winner, thus giving that number an additional possible cachet as a high stakes number.

Has anyone else had any ideas?

I will also point out that this is way for those of us who won't have internet access at the final hours and minutes to still participate.

Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700

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I think this is the downside to a "vanity auction" - adding money to a bid actually is not about supporting the Ship. Obviously, one could simply donate that same money anonymously to the Organ Fund and be done with it.

Adding money to a bid is about supporting the vanity of the person bidding or about showing off one's generosity to the Ship publically. I think the only way of making this work is to acknowledge that this is indeed the case and to provide a public space for people to enjoy showing off just how much money they are willing to give to the Ship and/or to express their appreciation for a Shipmate publically by supporting his/her vanity...

Thus I suggest to simpy open a new auction thread where people can pledge support publically. So a post there should be like this:

number
shipmate
pledge
(optional: message)


for example:

#1066
Spiffy da Wonder Sheep, Shipmate 5267
$30
Let da Sheep conquer!


(Note: this was not an actual pledge... [Big Grin] )

It might take some extra time to sort out the winners afterwards, but if it raises lots of extra money that should be OK.

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Auctioneer

Going... going... gone!
# 12

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Everyone is free to post in the Peanut Gallery how they are supporting other shipmates, whether by cheering them on or by contributing money toward their bids. Everyone is free -- and encouraged! -- to give to the Organ Fund, early and often. How to handle consortium bidding was thoroughly discussed before Simon made his decision:

quote:
Group bidding – consortium bidding or PMing someone to offer financial help is allowed. However, please note that the person placing a winning bid takes responsibility to buy the Lot and must arrange payment within seven days of the close of the auction. In other words, the bidder alone takes responsibility for his or her bid, even if it's being funded by several people.
It would certainly be fun to see some of the offers of financial help posted publicly, but we're going to leave the basic auction process as it is.

Auctioneer
Auctions Host

Posts: 127 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700

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quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
Grits... we won't be expanding this auction, but if it's successful, we might consider something to follow it. Let's see how this one goes first.

*bump* [Smile]

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Desperate for another go, Ingo?
[Biased]

Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
John Donne

Renaissance Man
# 220

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Were you happy with the take, Simon?

Future fundraising venturers...

Liberate Sunny!

The person who zapped :Sunny: decides on a total amount of money, that if pledged, will allow Sunny to come back into circulation.
[Big Grin] [Angel]

We make our pledges, with someone keeping a running total. Then we send them in, and if it is more than the secret nominated amount Sunny will be free!!!! (I know Chastmastr will be very happy). During the pledge period we should be given atmospheric updates about poor suffering Sunny and veiled info about the likelihood it is released related to the current pledge total.

Variants:
1) Day Pass, Week Pass etc. assorted levels of pledges which will allow Sunny to be free for only a limited time to offset disappointment if the secret amount is not met.
2) Misere One or more persons who hate Sunny very much offers to match the liberation fund in order to keep :Sunny: out of circulation. [Waterworks]

(Personally I'd also like to see Ripply Vomit and Pulsing Heart back in action)

Which brings me to:
Hire a smilie!
For a limited period posters can have a smilie of their choice in one of the free smilie spots available for use throughout the boards! (Rights to choose the smilie determined by highest bid)

Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Simon

Editor
# 1

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Yes, very happy thanks, Coot. I think the auction has done very well, partly as an entertainment, and also as a ship fundraiser. The 15 Lots raised $2190 (or £1340) for the ship, which is more than what was bid, due to the generosity of one of the bidders who more than doubled the amount s/he was paying. And several people have donated to the Organ Fund, too.

So a big thank you to everyone who took part. This has been really worthwhile in lots of different ways.

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Eternal memory

Posts: 3787 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700

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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
Grits... we won't be expanding this auction, but if it's successful, we might consider something to follow it. Let's see how this one goes first.

*bump* [Smile]
bump? [Help]

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged



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