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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: So, basically, what you're saying, Beigant and Leigh
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the_raptor
Shipmate
# 10533
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Posted
Oh know that is amusing. I guess the character of Leigh Teabing hit a little to close to home. ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Mal: look at this! Appears we got here just in the nick of time. What does that make us?
Zoe: Big damn heroes, sir!
Mal: Ain't we just?
— Firefly
Posts: 3921 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Dinghy Sailor
Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507
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Posted
Err, yes. You know, of course that Teabing is an anagram of Bagient. And that his limp is a reference to the third author of HBHG, who has a similar condition.
I saw the thing about them sueing months ago (and posted it on here!) Why have the papers suddenly started shouting about it again?
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Preach Christ, because this old humanity has used up all hopes and expectations, but in Christ hope lives and remains.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) They refer to it now as 'historical conjecture' which, presumably is sufficiently creative to be subject to copyright. I am waiting for Mr. Brown to produce the 'many sources' which he says he used.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dinghy sailor:
I saw the thing about them sueing months ago (and posted it on here!) Why have the papers suddenly started shouting about it again?
Because it all went to the High Court today.
Deborah
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Website.
Ship of Fools flickr group
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
They refer to it now as 'historical conjecture' which, presumably is sufficiently creative to be subject to copyright. I am waiting for Mr. Brown to produce the 'many sources' which he says he used.
Very creative. I recently had the misfortune of being asked to take a look at one of their other books. They had referred to a selection of relevant history books which, had they been read by any ordinary person, would have clearly shown their claims to be ludicrous. What appeared to be going on was that they would use enough of the real historical research done by other people to mention names, places, events and dates and then they would go off on a complete fantasy, ignoring things which, if they'd read what they claimed to, they could not possibly be unaware of (that the knights templar were suppressed in Scotland in 1309 and were never very important here anyway, that Rosslyn chapel is a collegiate church which contains familar pre-reformation Christian imagery, that the West Highland tombstones they looked at at Kilmartin are not Templar, but belong to a very well-known genre of medieval sculpture common in the Gaedhealtachd etc. etc.).
I'm torn between hoping they lose and have to pay costs and hoping they win and have to admit that what they've written is for the most part as fictional as Harry Potter.
L.
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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the_raptor
Shipmate
# 10533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dinghy sailor:
Err, yes. You know, of course that Teabing is an anagram of Bagient. And that his limp is a reference to the third author of HBHG, who has a similar condition.
That was my point. It was very cheeky of Dan Brown to put that character in (and makes you think the whole thing was originally satire until it got popular and he needed to keep up appearances). Im betting that if the copyright claim fails they will sue for libel.
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Mal: look at this! Appears we got here just in the nick of time. What does that make us?
Zoe: Big damn heroes, sir!
Mal: Ain't we just?
— Firefly
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Dinghy Sailor
Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507
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Posted
INdeed. I sort of hoped DVC was satire, until I read the blurbs of some of his other books (I couldn't get further than that.) Well, he's boosted their sales, anyway.
Thanks, rosamundi.
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Preach Christ, because this old humanity has used up all hopes and expectations, but in Christ hope lives and remains.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
They refer to it now as 'historical conjecture' which, presumably is sufficiently creative to be subject to copyright. I am waiting for Mr. Brown to produce the 'many sources' which he says he used.
This "partial bibliography" has been on his site for a long time-- years, I think. He acknowledges HBHG both there and in DVC.
Personally, I don't think DB is guilty of plagiarism...and I think the HBHG authors should pipe down and accept the publicity and sales that DVC has given *their* book.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Am I the only person who is tired of teenagers running up to them and saying, "You MUST read the DVC - it will show you that everything you've evre believed is false!"? I hope this case will help to demonstrate what a pile of old nonsense DVC is. For the record, I read HBHG 20 years ago, but could only get 50 pages into DVC. HBHG is better written (not that that's hard).
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
Am I the only person who is tired of teenagers running up to them and saying, "You MUST read the DVC - it will show you that everything you've evre believed is false!"?
I can't say this has exactly happened to me much, but it's a worrying development if people are taking it as true. To me it reads like the work of someone who went into the bargain basement of a New Age bookshop, bought a whole load of half-price books out of the bargain bin, and stuffed everything he could think of into his novel. The Leigh Teabing thing is a dead giveaway.
I must read HBHG again. I wasn't at all convinced when I first read it, but I agree it was better written. The Grail mythos seems to have acquired a proliferation of strange theories in recent years - Grailology has become something you could write a fat book about and the odder theories seem to be becoming established as some kind of "given".
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
I'm as puzzled as Dyfrig is. HBHG purports to be a work of history.
History is fair game for the novelist. I can't imagine Michael Grant suing Allan Massie, Christopher Hill going after Dame Barbara Cartland or the editors of the Cambridge Encyclopedia of Medieval History instructing Messrs Sue, Grabbit and Runne to screw Jean Plaidy for every penny. Perhaps shite made-up history is entitled to legal protections that the proper stuff isn't. One day we may be treated to David Irving pursuing some despicable Iranian hack novelist through the courts over some novel in which the heroes expose the Zionist plot to extort guilt money out of the West.
"Celebrated Mullah, Ahmed Fatwah-Smythe, hurled a hardback copy of Hitler's War through the window of the Finsbury Park Mosque, triggering the burglar alarm. Unfazed, Jonathan Grinvir the albino Mossad operative levelled his automatic pistol at the heroic Mullah's head. "It will take the police twenty minutes to get here. I can kill you very painfully in fifteen. So tell me, where is the dossier..."
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
Am I the only person who is tired of teenagers running up to them and saying, "You MUST read the DVC - it will show you that everything you've evre believed is false!"?
I don't have much contact with teenagers, but coincidentally Mr Rat's mother pressed the DVC on me this weekend with the fervour of a convert. Quite worrying.
I'd hope the court case might debunk the scholarship of the HBHG, but have a horrible feeling that a lot of people won't pay attention to the details and will just see the publicity as validating the whole thing.
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
They refer to it now as 'historical conjecture' which, presumably is sufficiently creative to be subject to copyright. I am waiting for Mr. Brown to produce the 'many sources' which he says he used.
This "partial bibliography" has been on his site for a long time-- years, I think. He acknowledges HBHG both there and in DVC.
Personally, I don't think DB is guilty of plagiarism...and I think the HBHG authors should pipe down and accept the publicity and sales that DVC has given *their* book.
Does that mean that you think HBHG is
nonfiction ? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
It doesn't make any difference to the issue of copyright whether HBHG is fiction or non-fiction. In either case, ideas and theories cannot be copyrighted, particular expressions of them can be. If you rip off the expression of an idea in a historical work (that is, you copy the words, arrangement of incidents, interpretation or whatever sufficiently closely that your work is effectively a copy of a substantial part of the original) then it's a breach of copyright, whether the copy is used as fiction or as history.
I believe there's a precedent for this - James Herbert's "The Spear" was found to infringe copyright in a non-fiction work (though I'm too lazy to look up the details).
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
I think the HBHG writers are getting pissy because Brown dealt quite cleverly with one of the chief objections to their stupid story, which is this: If Jesus was just a zero-century preacher who had a lucky escape, bogged off with Mary M, got hitched, had sprogs etc, etc. wtf would anyone bother who his/her great-great-great-great (etc.)-grandchildren were?
Of course, Brown deals with this by linking Mary M with The Goddess. Which is still nonsense, of course, but more interesting nonsense, and with better internal logic.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
They refer to it now as 'historical conjecture' which, presumably is sufficiently creative to be subject to copyright. I am waiting for Mr. Brown to produce the 'many sources' which he says he used.
This "partial bibliography" has been on his site for a long time-- years, I think. He acknowledges HBHG both there and in DVC.
Personally, I don't think DB is guilty of plagiarism...and I think the HBHG authors should pipe down and accept the publicity and sales that DVC has given *their* book.
Does that mean that you think HBHG is
nonfiction ?
???
No, you asked about Brown's sources, and I pointed you to them.
I haven't read HBHG, other than skimming a few pages 25 yrs ago or so. I loved DVC, for reasons I've posted many times. I wouldn't have a problem with the primary point of DVC, but I don't claim that any of it is true.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Dinghy Sailor
Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507
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Posted
It still mystifies me why people seem to think DVC gives them any fact about the RC etc. It's fiction, for crying out loud! They don't believe in hobbits, do they? After all, Brown's a Christian, and I read him saying that "...I am well aware of Christ's cruciffixion and ultimate resurrection as the very core of the Christian faith. The resurrection is perhaps the sole controversial Christian topic about which I would not desire to write" in the paper yesterday.
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Preach Christ, because this old humanity has used up all hopes and expectations, but in Christ hope lives and remains.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
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Shiny_Halo
Shipmate
# 10085
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dinghy sailor:
After all, Brown's a Christian, and I read him saying that "...I am well aware of Christ's cruciffixion and ultimate resurrection as the very core of the Christian faith. The resurrection is perhaps the sole controversial Christian topic about which I would not desire to write" in the paper yesterday.
Really?? Have you got a link to that please? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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You see, in the final analysis it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway.
- Mother Theresa "Anyway"
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dinghy sailor:
They don't believe in hobbits, do they?
You know, every time you say that, somewhere a little hobbit dies. ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
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Huntress
Shipmate
# 2595
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dinghy sailor:
After all, Brown's a Christian, and I read him saying that "...I am well aware of Christ's cruciffixion and ultimate resurrection as the very core of the Christian faith. The resurrection is perhaps the sole controversial Christian topic about which I would not desire to write" in the paper yesterday.
Possibly a good thing as there's a book called 'The Tomb of God' which would be ripe for 'source material' otherwise, it also incorporates art historical clues and focuses on the mystery of Rennes-le-Chateau - whose curate was one Berenger Sauniere. A good read which purports to be 'fact' but is entertaining as fiction.
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The Amazing Chronoscope
Posts: 431 | From: Lancashire / Nottingham | Registered: Apr 2002
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Huntress
Shipmate
# 2595
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Posted
Sorry to double post, TTOG trounces many of the theories and processes that Baigent, Leigh and Lincoln employ in HBHG, only to take the conspiracy idea a few steps further.
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The Amazing Chronoscope
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dinghy sailor:
After all, Brown's a Christian, and I read him saying that "...I am well aware of Christ's cruciffixion and ultimate resurrection as the very core of the Christian faith. The resurrection is perhaps the sole controversial Christian topic about which I would not desire to write" in the paper yesterday.
You what??? ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
Then can anyone explain to me how I've seen footage of him insisting that every word of the ridiculous conspiracy theory he stole to make his turgid drivel seem at all interesting is true?
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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the_raptor
Shipmate
# 10533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
quote:
Originally posted by dinghy sailor:
After all, Brown's a Christian, and I read him saying that "...I am well aware of Christ's cruciffixion and ultimate resurrection as the very core of the Christian faith. The resurrection is perhaps the sole controversial Christian topic about which I would not desire to write" in the paper yesterday.
You what???
Then can anyone explain to me how I've seen footage of him insisting that every word of the ridiculous conspiracy theory he stole to make his turgid drivel seem at all interesting is true?
Lucre. More suckers buy it if they think they are getting special insights. If he was making no money off it I might take his claims that he believes it to be true seriously. But how can you turn the authors on which your books theory is based into a villian, if you really believed what they wrote?
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Mal: look at this! Appears we got here just in the nick of time. What does that make us?
Zoe: Big damn heroes, sir!
Mal: Ain't we just?
— Firefly
Posts: 3921 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the_raptor:
Lucre. More suckers buy it if they think they are getting special insights. If he was making no money off it I might take his claims that he believes it to be true seriously. But how can you turn the authors on which your books theory is based into a villian, if you really believed what they wrote?
Possibly. I can believe that it would do wonders for sales. Even documentaries showing what a load of hooey it is seem to boost sales! I suppose I just can't imagine doing anything like that myself, especially with a story as ludicrous as this, just because I wouldn't be able to keep the act up for more than about, ooh, 5 seconds.
So how "Christian" is it to steal someone else's ridiculous (and very easily discredited) conspiracy theory, turn it into a badly-written novel, and go around saying it's all true, just to make a bit of money? And that's leaving aside the actual nature of the conspiracy theory.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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the_raptor
Shipmate
# 10533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
So how "Christian" is it to steal someone else's ridiculous (and very easily discredited) conspiracy theory, turn it into a badly-written novel, and go around saying it's all true, just to make a bit of money? And that's leaving aside the actual nature of the conspiracy theory.
If you had to always act morally to be a Christian none of us would be here. And maybe he believes in a prosperity gospel ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Mal: look at this! Appears we got here just in the nick of time. What does that make us?
Zoe: Big damn heroes, sir!
Mal: Ain't we just?
— Firefly
Posts: 3921 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re Dan Brown's beliefs:
If you go to his site, you can pull up his bio, interviews, etc.
I don't have time to look up the pages now, but I know he says on his site that he's a Christian.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
Judging by what his website says on the subject of being a Christian, I rather get the feeling that an awful lot of (maybe most) people wouldn't describe him in the same way:
quote:
ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN?
Yes. Interestingly, if you ask three people what it means to be Christian, you will get three different answers. Some feel being baptized is sufficient. Others feel you must accept the Bible as absolute historical fact. Still others require a belief that all those who do not accept Christ as their personal savior are doomed to hell. Faith is a continuum, and we each fall on that line where we may.
On the basis of that, and his later comment about being a student of many religions, I'd guess that his beliefs are along the lines of "Jesus was a really good teacher. If everyone followed his teaching, the world would be a better place". Without wanting to get all Purgatorial, I think a lot of people would have a problem with calling him a Christian on that basis.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
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Gextvedde
Shipmate
# 11084
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Posted
I don’t know if Dan Brown is a Christian or not for the simple reason that I’ve never met him or had any kind of meaningful dialogue with him. I agree that the novel is poorly written with some incredibly bad prose and some awful characterisation. Especially Leigh Teabing (crap name and just because it’s an anagram that’s no excuse) who for an academic seems woefully ignorant about history by anyone’s standards. I do however think that the great gumby’s comment
“So how "Christian" is it to steal someone else's ridiculous (and very easily discredited) conspiracy theory, turn it into a badly-written novel, and go around saying it's all true, just to make a bit of money? And that's leaving aside the actual nature of the conspiracy theory”.
Is a bit of an unfair value judgement on the mans character. Sure, it’s possible that it’s true but we don’t know that.
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"We must learn to see that our temperament is a gift of God, a talent with which we must trade until he comes" Thomas Merton
Posts: 293 | From: The Twilight Zone, near the M25 | Registered: Feb 2006
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
Gextvedde, I was responding to particular comments in this thread, about him being a Christian, and asking how this is consistent with his actions. I possibly employed a little hyperbole to make my point, but that's it. I don't think I said anything that hasn't been said elsewhere in the thread. I know we're all sinners, and all that stuff, but wouldn't you ask questions if someone calling themselves a Christian made a living torturing babies or strangling kittens? That's just an example, of course. No one really makes a living like that - do they? ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
It's all rather academic, though, because having visited his site, ISTM he's only a Christian in the broadest possible sense. Ironically, discovering that I hardly share any of his beliefs (or maybe that he doesn't share mine?) has increased my respect for him. At least his life isn't inconsistent with what he says he believes, as I suspected it might be.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
wouldn't you ask questions if someone calling themselves a Christian made a living ... strangling kittens?
I think there's a group in the Appallachians who do.
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Gextvedde
Shipmate
# 11084
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Posted
Fair point Gumby, though I prefer to roast kittens and eat them, otherwise it’s a bit a waste.
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"We must learn to see that our temperament is a gift of God, a talent with which we must trade until he comes" Thomas Merton
Posts: 293 | From: The Twilight Zone, near the M25 | Registered: Feb 2006
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
Praise the Lord! The Second Coming is here. Jesus has returned, and quite cleverly too, in an interesting stereo effect as 2 posters on the Ship of Fools, Gextvedde and The Great Gumby; who have been gifted with the knowledge of whose name is in the Book of Life.
Cool! Is my name in there guys?
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
I don't see that anywhere. Could you enlighten us, Coot?
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
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chukovsky
Ship's toddler
# 116
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Posted
What I want to know is why Dan Brown has Kevin Kline appearing in his photo opportunities for him?
No-one's ever waved a copy of DVC at me and said "see, it's all lies" but I was on a (very small) plane once with a French pilot and I thought it was rather unwise of one of the passengers (guess which continent he came from?*) to say "ooh, you're French, I've just been reading a book set in France, so you must have read it, it's called 'The Davinci Code', it's SO good."
Luckily we didn't crash.
*I'm sure there's more than one continent whose inhabitants think anyone living in another one know all people/books/places in that other continent.
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This space left intentionally blank. Do not write on both sides of the paper at once.
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by The Coot:
quote:
Praise the Lord! The Second Coming is here. Jesus has returned, and quite cleverly too, in an interesting stereo effect as 2 posters on the Ship of Fools, Gextvedde and The Great Gumby; who have been gifted with the knowledge of whose name is in the Book of Life.
The state of Mr Brown's soul is a matter that I leave to the Almighty. However it is not usual for Christians to allege that the Bible was cooked up by the Emperor Constantine. It suggests either a rather lamentable failure of catechesis or a rather more lamentable failure of honesty.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Gextvedde
Shipmate
# 11084
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Posted
I agree, although I don't remember either myself or the great gumby actualy commenting on the state of Dan Browns soul.
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"We must learn to see that our temperament is a gift of God, a talent with which we must trade until he comes" Thomas Merton
Posts: 293 | From: The Twilight Zone, near the M25 | Registered: Feb 2006
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
Oh, cool. I didn't realise you were Universalists.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
It's still very impressive being able to determine if someone is a Xtian by either talking to them or reading their website. Ok, so you don't have access to the Book of Life... but we've exchanged a few posts and here's my website, check my profile too if you need to. There must be at least as much info there as with Mr Brown.
How bout it? How's my Xtianity? So much easier to ask you guys than God.
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
Well, the Ship's Mystery Worshipper Guidelines define it for me...
Finally, the church you decide to visit must be within trinitarian Christianity, which is the faith position of Ship of Fools. We do not cover mosques, synagogues, Mormon temples, etc, since they represent faiths which belong to others and not to us.
That is what Christianity is 100%. ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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AdamPater
Sacristan of the LavaLamp
# 4431
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
...(guess which continent he came from?*)...
It's not nice to generalise about other people's continence.
And in any case, New Zealand isn't a continent.
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Put not your trust in princes.
Posts: 4894 | From: On the left of the big pink bit. | Registered: Apr 2003
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
Coot, before continuing this misguided vendetta, you might actually want to read the thread. Neither Gextvedde nor I have ever passed any comment on the state or destination of Mr Brown's soul, and quite frankly, the thought never even crossed my mind.
My only interest has been whether his actions are consistent with his stated beliefs, having been informed that he is a Christian. Having read his own description of his beliefs, I concluded that they are consistent, which satisfied me.
I can understand if you read 1 or 2 posts in isolation and misunderstood what was being said. I can even understand if you read the whole thread but read some comments in a way that wasn't intended. What I can't understand is that you decided to make a sarcastic and wholly inaccurate comment on that basis, without bothering to check if you might have misunderstood.
It's quite ironic that your complaint about passing judgement on others on the basis of sparse information is itself an attempt to pass judgement on others on the basis of sparse information.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Gextvedde
Shipmate
# 11084
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Posted
Thanks Gumby, I was going to say something simlilar myself. I'm sorry Coot, I'm just not sure what you're getting at as it doesn't seem to be based on anything that's been posted.
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"We must learn to see that our temperament is a gift of God, a talent with which we must trade until he comes" Thomas Merton
Posts: 293 | From: The Twilight Zone, near the M25 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Stoo
Mighty Pirate
# 254
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Posted
[Tricorne Hat on]
Ahem.
Messers Coot, Great Gumby and Gextvedde,
Please take your argument elsewhere. Purgatory might be a good place to discuss whether one can determine someone is a Christian, and by what means.
On the other hand, Hell might be better if it were to get personal.
Thanks muchly!
[Tricorne Hat off]
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Posts: 5266 | From: the director of "Bikini Traffic School" | Registered: May 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
Apologies Stoo.
I've been doing my best to avoid getting Purgatorial (see my comment about the nature of Dan Brown's beliefs, specifically trying to keep it Heavenly), and certainly to avoid any personal attack. If there's anything in particular that you think I shouldn't have posted, could you please PM me, so that I know for future reference?
Thanks
TGG
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Gextvedde
Shipmate
# 11084
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Posted
Dito with the apology Stoo,
Hey, that's my first bit of ship discipline.
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"We must learn to see that our temperament is a gift of God, a talent with which we must trade until he comes" Thomas Merton
Posts: 293 | From: The Twilight Zone, near the M25 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I heard on the news today that one of the HBHG authors (Beigant?) admitted in court that he'd exaggerated some of his claims.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
What appeared to be going on was that they would use enough of the real historical research done by other people to mention names, places, events and dates and then they would go off on a complete fantasy, ignoring things which, if they'd read what they claimed to, they could not possibly be unaware of (that the knights templar were ...
This is presumably where one could use the word "factional", which the NYTimes used to apply to Sebastian Junger's very entertaining but occasionally fanciful Perfect Storm, where he was filling in holes and also mixing facts around a bit for effect.
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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
The case has been dismissed - Mr Brown wins. Judgment, if you can be bothered to read it (I can't).
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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