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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Da Vinci Blunders. (Errors in the Plot)
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Pewgilist
Shipmate
# 3445
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Posted
My favourite blunder: repeated references to "the Vatican" doing this and that in the 4th century. No matter that the Pope didn't take up residence there until the 1800's.
I've avoided the book like the plague, even after several people have pressed me for my opinion. But when my Dad said "Have you read this? It's great! I learned alot that I didn't know about." and handed me his copy. So I'm halfway through and already have twelve pages of notes on inaccuracies, gramatical flaws, mistaken words ("portly and ruby-faced"; _ruby_ faced?) and just plain silliness. I'm not sure that I will actually finish the book.
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Pewgilist
Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 126 | From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Oct 2002
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Pewgilist
Shipmate
# 3445
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Posted
What the hell, my second-favourite blunder, too:
"May the peace of the Lord be with you"
"And also with you."
This exhange being between to Francophones. Only in English do we have the asinine "and also with you" instead of "and with your spirit."
Doesn't Anchor Books employ editors?
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Pewgilist
Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 126 | From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Oct 2002
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
Diocese of Brownsville lists 14 errors, of which my favorite is
quote:
9. Brown claims Leonardo’s Mona Lisa painting is an anagram for the pagan gods Amon and Isis. Leonardo, however, called his painting La Giaconda, after the subject, who was the wife a Florentine businessman, Francesco da Giacondo. (Mona is a contraction of Madonna, and Lisa was Francesco’s wife’s name.)
More pointedly - all the anagrams and such like are in English. WTF? Leonardo spoke modern English?
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Teufelchen
Shipmate
# 10158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Henry Troup:
More pointedly - all the anagrams and such like are in English. WTF? Leonardo spoke modern English?
This was the thought that struck me after my question about 'so dark the con of man'. Are we missing something, or is it really that fatuous?
T.
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Little devil
Posts: 3894 | From: London area | Registered: Aug 2005
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Henry Troup:
Diocese of Brownsville lists 14 errors, of which my favorite is
quote:
9. Brown claims Leonardo’s Mona Lisa painting is an anagram for the pagan gods Amon and Isis. Leonardo, however, called his painting La Giaconda, after the subject, who was the wife a Florentine businessman, Francesco da Giacondo. (Mona is a contraction of Madonna, and Lisa was Francesco’s wife’s name.)
More pointedly - all the anagrams and such like are in English. WTF? Leonardo spoke modern English?
Good points, although I have to admit that the Diocese of Brownsville's particular method of "answering" the Da Vinci Code (similar to that being used in my own church at the moment) makes me want to rush out and buy the book and see the movie even though I think it's crap, just because I so hate it when the church tells us what to read and watch.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Emma-Jean
Shipmate
# 7165
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Posted
I was suspending my disbelieve and enjoying the story until my knowledge of French caught up with me. The Fleur-de-lis is not a lily at all. (Many people make this mistake since the French word for lily is lis.)
The "lis" in Fleur-de-Lis is short for Louis. It was Louis(the King of France)'s flower (not Lisa's which is the theoretical connection to the Mona Lisa in the book) and it's an Iris. In particular Louis' flower is a yellow Iris/Yellow flag.
If you look at the Fleur-de-lis, which being Canadian I have had a number of opportunities to do so (there are 4 on the flag of Quebec), you'll see it looks far more like an Iris than a lily.
[Incidently: The Iris is also said to be a symbol of the trinity with it's three petals facing up to heaven and three facing down to earth.]
Okay, now that I've gotten that off my chest maybe I can go back to suspending my disbelieve. If I can also get over the fact that Job 38:11 contains rather more than seven words ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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"It is important to remember that for every oxidation there must be a corresponding reduction, and vice versa. When 4 electrons are formally removed from ethanol... they do not simply vanish" - Dr. Hultin
Posts: 422 | From: Winter-peg | Registered: May 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Dumb question, but does the Louvre really have bars of soap? I haven't seen this in a public place for, oh, ages. They all have those useless liquid soap dispensers that leak everywhere.
Of course, it would have seriously screwed up the Escape if Sophie had had to wrap the tracking dot in a wad of wet toilet paper.
[ 31. May 2006, 03:24: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Yes the English anagrams were annoying weren't they ?
Surely it should have been pomme not apple if the codex was made by Sophie's grand master. Also how did it take them so long to work out the last clue for apple - it was extremely obvious.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Pewgilist
Shipmate
# 3445
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Yes the English anagrams were annoying weren't they ?
Surely it should have been pomme not apple if the codex was made by Sophie's grand master. Also how did it take them so long to work out the last clue for apple - it was extremely obvious.
Well, I didn't find it obvious. But then, I don't expect apples to have "rosy flesh." Here in Canada, our apples have white or yellow flesh.
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Pewgilist
Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 126 | From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Oct 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
If I've missed this in my quick review of the thread, I apologise.
On a recent UK TV programme, an academic made the following observation about "San Greal" (Holy Grail) being code for "Sang Real" (Royal Blood). He said that in the medieval French in which the Sangreal phrase was claimed to be used, what was actually said was "Sangraal" - where "graal" means a vessel. The emergence of "greal" instead of "graal" arose as a result of a 15th century English mishearing or mistranslating. So the transfer of "g" from the beginning of "graal" to the end of "san" simply does have the same meaning in the original medieval french. "Graal" = vessel but "raal" does not = royal.
Which of course makes that whole line of argument a complete historical anachronism. There was an interesting response in the TV programme from one of the book addicts on hearing this devastating criticism. Something along the lines of "so you say. Well, I've got my own opinion .." Nice shot of completely flabbergasted expert on seeing reason trumped by the power of conspiracy theory.
Anyway, I think that is a huge blunder in the plot line.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Anselm
Shipmate
# 4499
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Posted
Have I got this right?
1. Pre-Constantine Christianity was actually quite pagan in practice.
2. Constantine was a pagan emperor, not Christian.
3. The conflict between pre-Constantine Christianity and paganism was tearing the Roman empire apart [what were they fighting about?]
Therefore
4. The pagan Constantine, combined pagan Christianity with paganism and came up with a religion that was profoundly anti-pagan.
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carpe diem domini
...seize the day to play dominoes?
Posts: 2544 | From: The Scriptorium | Registered: May 2003
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Henry Troup:
Diocese of Brownsville lists 14 errors, of which my favorite is
quote:
9. Brown claims Leonardo’s Mona Lisa painting is an anagram for the pagan gods Amon and Isis. Leonardo, however, called his painting La Giaconda, after the subject, who was the wife a Florentine businessman, Francesco da Giacondo. (Mona is a contraction of Madonna, and Lisa was Francesco’s wife’s name.)
Have I missed something? I've looked through this several times, but I can't make MONA LISA an anagram of AMON and ISIS. Surely to get the right letters you'd have to do something daft like:
MONA LISA IS <=> AMON ISIS AL
I wonder where the pagan god Al has been hiding all this time! Please tell me if I'm being really stupid - I just can't see that anagram at all.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Other stuff that pisses off the editor in me:
1. How come the man can't keep King Saul (of Benjamin) and King Solomon (of Judah, through his father David, also of Judah, duh!) straight? Buy the idiot an encyclopedia.
2. In the paintings variously titled "Madonna/Virgin of the Rocks" (one in the Louvre, one in London, I think?)--
Brown consistently mixes up baby Jesus and baby John. I mean, hello? John is the elder, therefore bigger child. He is also the one who traditionally carried a reed cross. And Da Vinci correctly shows him with his hands in a praying position.
Jesus is the younger baby seated by the angel, fingers lifted in a gesture of teaching / blessing. There is absolutely no reason to mix the two children up except the lazy assumption that any baby Mary has her arm around must be Christ.
Oh, and that angel--his hand is NOT in a "blade-like" position. He's got his index finger out pointing at the cross. Maybe we can buy Brown some glasses as well.
3. Who ever heard of a quick death by stomach acid leaking into the abdomen? A gunshot wound to the stomach is much more likely to result in a quick death from internal bleeding and shock, or else a slow death from peritonitis. I don't think the acids figure into it at all.
4. Why are the experts such chumps when it comes to identifying the mirror handwriting? I've known that about Da Vinci since I was eight years old.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
And it's not like mirror handwriting is such a horribly difficult thing. I taught myself how to do it when I was in school, and used it to sign yearbooks. I can read it nearly as fast as foreward handwriting. Maybe I'm as weird as Leonard. Anybody want to front me venture capital for this new tank I've developed?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Sure, but only if you promise to quit hanging out with that Medici crowd.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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The Om
Shipmate
# 2318
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Of course, it would have seriously screwed up the Escape if Sophie had had to wrap the tracking dot in a wad of wet toilet paper.
And if Dan Brown can make a transmitter that small able to send its position to a satellite I have a multi-billion dollar satellite phone deal for him. GPS satellites only ever transmit positioning signals, they don't receive. It's the portable receiver that does the position calculation. And they don't get anywhere near as small as a watch battery (the antenna, for one thing, restricts the size). And what's the power source for this device?
Posts: 96 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Feb 2002
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Emma-Jean:
The "lis" in Fleur-de-Lis is ... an Iris.
Which, of course, rhymes with "Isis"..... coincidence?
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Yes the English anagrams were annoying weren't they ?
Surely it should have been pomme not apple if the codex was made by Sophie's grand master. Also how did it take them so long to work out the last clue for apple - it was extremely obvious.
To be fair, Sophie's grandfather always encouraged her to speak English (which is why the Louvre anagrams were in English) and on p. 403 he writes:
quote:
The Priory, like many European secret societies at odds with the Church, had considered English the only European pure language for centuries. Unlike French, Spanish and Italian, which were rooted in Latin -- the tongue of the Vatican English was linguistically removed from Rome's propaganda machine, and therefore became a sacred, secret tongue for those brotherhoods educated enough to learn it
(Bold mine, italics Brown's)
So he does attempt to explain why the anagrams are in English. However, the flaws in the argument are immense! English pure? It might be Germanic not Italic, but it's borrowed so much from French and Latin over the years, it has a tremendously Latinate vocabulary. And I bolded only because that is absolute garbage. There are plenty of non-Italic European languages (the Celtic ones, the other Germanic ones, Slavic etc) and if you really wanted a pure language wouldn't you be better off with Finnish, Hungarian or Basque which aren't even Indo-European? Finnish and Hungarian being Fino-Ugric and Basque unrelated to anything as far as we know! The anagrams are in English because Dan Brown is American and writing in English!
Other innaccuracies I found:
p. 514
quote:
Sir Isaac Newton's burial, attended by kings and nobles, was presided over by Alexander Pope, friend and colleague, who gave a stirring eulogy before sprinkling dirt on the tomb
My mum asked what was Pope doing taking a funeral when he wasn't a minister of religion. So I googled Isaac Newton Funeral and found the London Gazette's description of Newton's funeral, apparently the `the Office was performed by the Bishop of Rochester attended by the Prebends and Choir.' Now I didn't know that Alexander Pope (the son of Roman Catholics) was bishop of Rochester!
Then, Roslin. Comes from Rose line does it? And it's on the sight of a Mithraic temple, and presumably quite early. So why does it have a place name based on English elements? It's far more likely to be a Brittonic placename as the area round Edinburgh was the territory of the Gododdin (which is also the name of one of the earliest Welsh poems!) who were Britons. Especially because both Ros and lin look like Welsh placename elements to me. Lin is, I guess modern Welsh Llyn `lake' and Ros would be Rhos which has two headwords in Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru the first of which is a borrowing from Latin, rosapossibly via English or French and does mean rose. The second has Breton, Cornish and Irish cognates and comes, via Celtic, from an Indo-European root. and means, moor, high meadow and is a common placename element! Though looking at the map, there isn't a lake nearby, so perhaps I need to do a bit more checking.
He also claims that Roslin Chapel is on the same meridian as Glastonbury. A few minutes with Streetmap taught me that Roslin Chapel's Longitude is W3:09:36* and Glastonbury's is W2:42:52 which isn't the same Meridian!
Oh, and our Lady (about whom he talks of French minsitrels singing) is surely, the BVM not Mary Magdalene and it is she who is the Mystic Rose too. Oddly she gets no mention at all!
Carys
*First I got W3:08:42 which was for where streetmap went when I chose Roslin chapel, place of interest, but then I moved the arrow to point at the cross by where it said chapel!
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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The Om
Shipmate
# 2318
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Posted
Carys is half correct about the naming of Roslin - the 'ross' means 'promontory'. Interestingly it's named as "formerly St Matthew's Collegiate Church" on the 1854 map.
Posts: 96 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Feb 2002
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Om:
Carys is half correct about the naming of Roslin - the 'ross' means 'promontory'. Interestingly it's named as "formerly St Matthew's Collegiate Church" on the 1854 map.
Interesting. Penisula was noted in GPC as a possible meaning for the place name element rhos. Interesting that they take it as Gaelic though. It doesn't say when the earliest settlement is.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
Carys,
Lothian (or at least it's elite) was Gaelic-speaking for a while after it was taken from the Anglians by the Malcolm II at the battle of Carham in 1018. There are indeed Gaelic placenames in Lothian - along with earlier Welsh ones and Anglian ones.
L.
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
I know, but I'm intrigued as to why they think it dates from that period, hence my comment about the fact they don't give the date of first settlement. The form of the words could be Britonnic. But whether it's Brittonic or Goidelic, it certainly isn't from Rose Line as Brown claims!
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Just wondering... why the heck would anyone care about joining the alleged royal bloodlines of Mary M. and Jesus? I mean, the whole point of a bloodline, particularly one that is being actively "improved" through a breeding cross, is that you expect it to produce something spectacular IN THE FUTURE--something that will outdo the original breeders, stars though they were (here J and M). But as far as the book goes, the bloodline apparently produces a handful of Merovingian kings (yawn, we've plenty of those around) and then dives underground until it surfaces in the truly spectacular.... Sophie?
Pardon me for being underwhelmed.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Egeria
Shipmate
# 4517
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Posted
Commenting on Emma-Jean's post regarding the Iris, Dyfrig said:
quote:
Which, of course, rhymes with "Isis"..... coincidence?
Well, um, no, it doesn't. The final "s" of Isis is a Greek case ending; in her native language, so to speak, only the first "s" is present.
See why it pays to study Coptic? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"Sound bodies lined / with a sound mind / do here pursue with might / grace, honor, praise, delight."--Rabelais
Posts: 314 | From: Berkeley, CA | Registered: May 2003
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Jimbo the Rooster
Apprentice
# 8489
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Posted
Is it just me or does Brown glibly refer to the Dead Sea Scrolls as historically backing up the non-divine nature of Christ? Despite the fact that the Dead Sea Scrolls contain exclusively OT scripture (possibly apocrypha stuff too, i'm not sure...).
It was painful to read it, you get the feeling that if the book had been about anything else, the copy editors would have thrown it at him. But it becomes essential reading when it works its way into secular canon and you hear these "facts" being spouted by your friends as if they had researched it themselves. That's why we have canon, for crying out loud!!
*stamps tiny foot*
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humbling along without a care in the world...
Posts: 3 | From: Northumberland | Registered: Sep 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I vaguely recall something like that, but I think if I got the actual text out, we'd find it was one of those weaselly references where he didn't actually in so many words say so, just implied the hell out of it. You know, like this:
Policeman: Were you aware you were doing 90 in a 35 mph zone?
Driver: I'm sorry sir, my wife is having a baby [ in about two more months ].
ETA: Welcome to the Ship!
[ 30. June 2006, 12:59: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
A nice one is Godfrey de Bouillon instructing the Knights Templars to remove the evidence that he was descended from Mary Mag and J.C. from the Temple of Solomon (quite why it would be kept there when the descendants had been living in France, since the first century AD is a mystery). Unfortunately the Order of the Temple wasn't founded until 18 years after Godfrey's death.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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