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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Is there a Masonic connection in all of this?
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I've heard that one of the authors of 'Holy Blood and Holy Grail' is a Freemason, and possibly a member of the Knights Templar masonic order.
I've also been PM-ed once during a Purgatory thread on Freemasonry by a shipmate who claimed that belief in a 'blood-line' and that the Scottish royal family were part of it, forms part of the Knights Templar package. A Knights Templar bloke at work says he's never heard this and although he's heard often contradictory lectures about Rosslyn Chapel he's never heard anything about a 'bloodline' theory either.
Can anyone shed any light on this?
I'm inclined to give the KTs the benefit of the doubt on this one ... unless anyone here can enlighten me and show a connection between them and theories of this kind ... ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Gamaliel
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I've heard that one of the authors of 'Holy Blood and Holy Grail' is a Freemason, and possibly a member of the Knights Templar masonic order.
I've also been PM-ed once during a Purgatory thread on Freemasonry by a shipmate who claimed that belief in a 'blood-line' and that the Scottish royal family were part of it, forms part of the Knights Templar package. A Knights Templar bloke at work says he's never heard this and although he's heard often contradictory lectures about Rosslyn Chapel he's never heard anything about a 'bloodline' theory either.
Can anyone shed any light on this?
I'm inclined to give the KTs the benefit of the doubt on this one ... unless anyone here can enlighten me and show a connection between them and theories of this kind ...
Gamaliel
There are at least two modern day organisations claiming to be Knights Templar or a masonic continuation of them. One is composed of people who purvey bonkers Scottish pseudohistory of the type you mention. The other I know of, is masonic, and they seem OK but have the odd mistaken historical idea - I think your friend may fall into that latter group and that the PM you got was talking about the first lot. They are separate AFAIK.
Modern day people who claim to belong to the Knights Templar and really believe they are the continuation of the order seem to be indulging in a fantasy similar to members of the Society for Creative Anachronism.
There is no connection between the historical Knights Templar and Rosslyn Chapel. There is no historical connection between Knights Templar and freemasonry and no connection between the Knights Templar and any Scottish royal dynasty except in the imaginations of some daft people, such as those who accept the claims of the Belgian twit, Michel Lafosse who passes himself off as Prince Michael of Albany.
To elaborate a little, 'The Holy Blood and Holy Grail' authors wrote a later book called 'The Temple and the Lodge' in the 1980s. This book effectively started the Templar nonsense about Rosslyn. They took some romantic 19th century masonic myths about the masons being a continuation of escaped Knights Templars who came to Scotland, elaborated this and tied it to Rosslyn, using the 17th century folk tale of the prentice pillar and the 17th century connections of the Sinclairs of Rosslyn to the early masons.
The problem with it, is that the Templar tale is false. The Templars were never very important in Scotland and were suppressed in 1309. Rosslyn chapel is not built until the mid 15th century and its building is nothing to do with Templars or Freemasons - it's just a very nice collegiate church of the type which was fashionable at the time.
The masons evolved out of stonemason lodges in late 16th-early 17th century Scotland - a hundred years after the chapel was built. They have nothing to do with Knights Templar (see the works of Professor David Stevenson for their early history). There is however a Sinclair of Rosslyn connection to freemasonry - but it comes after the chapel building.
Co-incidentally the actual Scottish headquarters of the historical Templars was at Balintradoch - a few miles down the road from Rosslyn, which excites the conspiracy theorists no end. They simply don't understand that the Order was long gone before Rosslyn chapel was even thought of.
cheers,
Louise
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Thanks Louise, this all makes sense.
You're right, the bloke at work does belong to the Masonic KTs you describe and not the whacky group with the Scottish theories.
That said, I've heard Masons come out with some pretty peculiar stuff - and I'm talking about regular Freemasons here, not splinter groups or self-styled Masonic groups that don't belong to the 'official' orders. But then, which of us haven't heard Christians coming out with odd things, in the mainstream churches and denominations as well as among the more colourful sects?
Gamaliel
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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ORGANMEISTER
Shipmate
# 6621
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Posted
Thought that Rosslyn was constructed as the family chapel for the Sinclair (St. Claire?) family but as has been pointed out not until several hundred years after the demise of the Templars.
Interesting note: The 23rd and last Grand Master of the Templars was Jacques DeMolay. The Mason do have a youth organization call the Order of DeMolay.
Posts: 3162 | From: Somerset, PA - USA | Registered: May 2004
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Stalin's Organ
Apprentice
# 9288
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Posted
Masonry in the US is a different thing to that found over here and in fact Grand Lodge ( UK) do not recognise a lot of the rites found in the states . The "Order of Demolay" referred to above is an offshoot of "York Rite" masonry AFAIK , again not recognised by Grand Lodge in this country . Our US masonic friends tend to have some wackier ideas - remember the chap that was shot accidentally during an initiation in new york couple of years back ? None of this sort of thing takes place in UK lodges as far as I am aware .
KT are a masonic order that have a specific trinitarian belief ( as opposed to just a belief in a supreme being for regular or "Craft" lodges ) , and AFAIK make no claim to be histiorically related to the real templars .
Now I've told you all this I'm going to have to kill you all ! ! !
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Yea , though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death , I shall fear no evil , for I am the biggest,baddest b*****d to walk there.
Posts: 13 | From: Central London | Registered: Apr 2005
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Mikethealtarboy
Apprentice
# 11317
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Posted
Has anyone read "Born in Blood"?
It argued for a templer/masonic connection, and although it was very much speculation, it did seem at the very least *reasonable* based on the evidence presented.
Posts: 9 | From: Nevada | Registered: Apr 2006
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Anselm
Shipmate
# 4499
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Posted
The connection is that Dan Brown's next novel is based around the Masons.
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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carpe diem domini
...seize the day to play dominoes?
Posts: 2544 | From: The Scriptorium | Registered: May 2003
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Chimakwa
Shipmate
# 3413
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
Modern day people who claim to belong to the Knights Templar and really believe they are the continuation of the order seem to be indulging in a fantasy similar to members of the Society for Creative Anachronism.
Just an off-topic note in defense of myself and other members of the Society for Creative Anachronism -- we don't "really believe" we're the continuation of anything except a long-ago costume party that got a bit out of hand and is still going on forty years later, with some educational bits tacked on.
The hierarchy looks something like:
Neo-Templars are loonies.
My fellow anachronists are perhaps a bit odd.
I am perfectly normal, thank you very much ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Christopher
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athanasia (n): to induce death by means of Quicunque Vult
(Shipmate Formerly Known as Anglicub)
Posts: 249 | From: Philadelphia | Registered: Oct 2002
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
Sorry I was just alluding to the fact that dressing up and calling yourself a medieval something or other, doesn't actually make you a medieval something or other. Some of my old pals are in the local SCA
L.
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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