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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Sundry liturgical questions
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
I have the real Mediterranean thing growing in my back garden. Anyone wants wild/organic (John the Baptist version) got that on the hillside too.
PM me and I will send by international courier. 'Tis a hardy thing - a bit of wet cotton wool on the stems and it should last days.
I have seen Orthodox using fresh basil also. Which has a nice smell and is presumably available IRL supermarkets
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
ALL the bells are silent after the Gloria on Holy Thursday, and no, one does not recite the Angelus from then onwards.
No bells - agree - but i still recite the Angelus because i have yet to find a source that tells me otherwise - in fact i asked on The Ship about this before.
Would be grateful if you knew the source.
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I wonder about that too. Part of me thinks it seems a strange thing to say at this point... but another part of me thinks that there is never a more important time than Good Friday or Holy Saturday to remind oneself of the Incarnation. The one who suffers, dies and descends to the dead is truly human as we are.
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Flinging wide the gates...
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I don't need any bells to recite the Angelus. I agree that it is appropriate not to say it in church as part of any services after the Maundy Thursday liturgy.
But there's no reason for me not to say it as part of my private prayers, any more than there is for me not to say the rosary.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Well, private devotions are in a sense one's own business. There is no formal obligation on anyone to say the Angelus, so no formal obligation on when not to recite it.
I am expressing an opinion and would be happy to stand corrected. My opinion is based on the fact that originally the Angelus was explicitly tied to the ringing of the bell. Whether one accepts the theory that this was the curfew bell or alternately the Compline bell, either way the evening Angelus came first. People were enjoined to recite three Hail Marys when they heard the evening bell. The expanded prayers now familiar as the Angelus came later, as did the tolling of the bell in the morning and at noon.
So if the bell is silent .....
By way of contrast, the Enchiridion of Indulgences states "A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who devoutly recite the above prayers according to the formula indicated for the time of the year" and the indication for the Angelus are simply "During the year (outside of Paschal Season)", with nothing about not saying the Angelus on Good Friday and Holy Saturday.
So it's perhaps one of those situations where you make up your own mind.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
The Angelus on Good Friday and Holy Saturday: Ring-a da bell? Or, not?
No, no, no! - unless of course you want people to pause and think of a working fisherman, grieving mother or Zambian office worker.
ALL the bells are silent after the Gloria on Holy Thursday, and no, one does not recite the Angelus from then onwards. If you want to make a morning, noon and night recollection at the usual time of the Angelus, then I suggest the Stations of the Cross versicle and response "we adore you O Christ and we bless you etc"
(Way past the time when this answer may have been useful this year, of course, but maybe useful for future reference)
Of course this must be the right answer. I've had the privilege of being able to scamper into the church to pull the Angelus for the past year or so (Either 6a and noon or noon and 6p; I'm not working a twelve-hour day). It's an evangelical opportunity and has become almost second nature to look at the clock as the time approaches.
I had already starting pulling the Angelus at noon on Good Friday without even thinking, when, half-way through, I considered my probable error. I forbore when 6p rolled around.
I plead guilty to the enthusiasm of a little boy with a rope attached to a big bell.
Of course, in Eastertide, we've left the "three threes and a nine" of the Angelus for the "four twos and an eight" of the Regine Coeli. I find it easier to sing than speak it.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
So it's perhaps one of those situations where you make up your own mind.
Yeah, I can live with that!
Definitely agree about the bells, of course.
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Flinging wide the gates...
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Interesting, leo.
The Angelus has three versicle-and-responses, while the Regina Coeli has four.
Can anyone else weigh in on the manner of ringing the bell for the Angelus and the Regina Coeli?
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Well, that post was written in haste and was wrong. Let me try again.
The Angelus has three Gospel versicle-and-responses, with a Hail Mary after each. The bell is tolled three times for each set. Then the bell is tolled nine times during the collect.
The Regina Coeli is a hymn with four lines. At each line, the bell is tolled twice. Then the bell is tolled eight times during the collect.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
I'm not aware of any time-tested indication that the bell should be rung differently for the Regina Coeli. There are lots of variants around - our old friend "local custom" peeps above the parapet.
Had I a bell I would just ring the Angelus as usual - based on the prayer being a response to the bell, rather than the bell keeping time with the prayer.
Also, the final 9 is I think just a convenience. In France and Italy you hear a great peal of bells at the end rather than 9 single strokes.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
When I had the pleasure of being at a church that recited the Angelus after Sunday Sung Mass, and when I had the honour to be MC ringing the bell, I did enquire of a priest attached to the parish what I should ring in Eastertide.
He said to just ring as usual, ie 3x3 during the Regina Caeli and 9 for the collect.
[ 03. May 2014, 20:44: Message edited by: venbede ]
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I am unable to find it.
How long after opening can a bottle of port be used for Communion? A small church that intincts isn't going to use a bottle very quickly at all. I am trying to balance good taste against waste.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
If it has a good seal on the screw top, I'd imagine quite a while. You could always transfer it to a container with a good seal if the bottle isn't any good. If it doesn't smell like wine anymore, it's probably not. So long as the smell doesn't give it away, you're probably fine.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
BF
You can buy port in half-bottles...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Oh I didn't know that. The smallest one I saw yesterday was 750ml, but I'll look for the smaller one.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Personally I can never remember where people do it during the creed.....
Usually you make the sign of the cross at the end of the Creed (i.e., "and the life of the world to come"). I've also seen it done instead during the previous line regarding the resurrection of the dead.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
How long after opening can a bottle of port be used for Communion? A small church that intincts isn't going to use a bottle very quickly at all. I am trying to balance good taste against waste.
This really depends on the type of port being used. One site has the following guidelines:
Really Old Vintage - 1-2 days
Old Colheita - 1-3 days
Old Vintage - 2-3 days
Young Vintage - 4-5 days
Filtered LBV - 10 days
Unfiltered LBV - 1-2 weeks
Young Colheita - 2 weeks
Ruby - 3-4 weeks
Tawny - 1 month
Port, like any wine, will definitely last longer if it's kept refrigerated once opened. The best guide, however, is likely just to taste it and judge for yourself if it is still acceptable.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Personally I can never remember where people do it during the creed.....
Usually you make the sign of the cross at the end of the Creed (i.e., "and the life of the world to come"). I've also seen it done instead during the previous line regarding the resurrection of the dead.
I don't think that this is really an "instead" so much as it is simply a second or two early. The traditional crossing here is intended as a summarizing gesture at the end of the creed.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Personally I can never remember where people do it during the creed.....
Usually you make the sign of the cross at the end of the Creed (i.e., "and the life of the world to come"). I've also seen it done instead during the previous line regarding the resurrection of the dead.
It went out with Vatican 2 (along with the genuflection except on two occasions on the year.)
Where you see it in C of E parishes is where they weren't ever instructed in the changes.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It went out with Vatican 2 (along with the genuflection except on two occasions on the year.)
Where you see it in C of E parishes is where they weren't ever instructed in the changes.
Or where they don't look to Vatican II for instructions on liturgical customs?
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It went out with Vatican 2 (along with the genuflection except on two occasions on the year.)
Where you see it in C of E parishes is where they weren't ever instructed in the changes.
Or where they don't look to Vatican II for instructions on liturgical customs?
i.e. where they claim the name 'catholic' but are provincial.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
i.e. where they claim the name 'catholic' but are provincial.
Id non est, actually.
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
[qb] Personally I can never remember where people do it during the creed.....
Usually you make the sign of the cross at the end of the Creed (i.e., "and the life of the world to come"). I've also seen it done instead during the previous line regarding the resurrection of the dead.
It went out with Vatican 2 (along with the genuflection except on two occasions on the year.)
Given the increasing number of parishes and communities that use the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, either occasionally or regularly, I would say that this still needs to be mentioned.
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Is it permissible to use the Te Deum in place of the Gloria on Trinity Sunday?
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
No.
If you wish to sing a Te Deum on Trinity Sunday do it as the anthem - and if that is during communion distribution then I suggest you wait until the last communicant has partaken.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Thanks!
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
Does anyone know what the proper liturgical postures are for the Athanasian Creed?
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
No.
If you wish to sing a Te Deum on Trinity Sunday do it as the anthem - and if that is during communion distribution then I suggest you wait until the last communicant has partaken.
Well that rather depends on what church you are from, doesn't it?
I believe the Church of England simply suggests that the Gloria 'or other suitable hymn or canticle' be used at this point.
As Barefoot Friar's profile indicates that he is a Uniting Methodist I would suggest he probably has similar latitude, and the Te Deum would certainly seem suitable if he wanted it!
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
The proper liturgical posture for the Athanasian Creed is to be well outside the church, and preferably down the pub.....
....I'll get me coat....
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
Does anyone know what the proper liturgical postures are for the Athanasian Creed?
Standing throughout, possibly facing East.
The Athanasian Creed is seldom to be found these days. Entitled in BCP (in England) as "At Morning Prayer", it is appointed to be used in place of the Apostles' Creed, on certain liturgical days in the year, including Trinity Sunday. As an expedient, it may be used at Evening Prayer, particularly in churches that do not have both Morning & Evening Prayer.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
My post crossed with that of Bishop's Finger, in more serious vein than intended by him.
Admittedly, in the bygone days when I heard the Athanasian Creed, it sounded as if a punishment at school.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
Does anyone know what the proper liturgical postures are for the Athanasian Creed?
Standing throughout, possibly facing East.
The Athanasian Creed is seldom to be found these days. Entitled in BCP (in England) as "At Morning Prayer", it is appointed to be used in place of the Apostles' Creed, on certain liturgical days in the year, including Trinity Sunday. As an expedient, it may be used at Evening Prayer, particularly in churches that do not have both Morning & Evening Prayer.
I only use it during Prime in the Daily Office. The rubric is from the 1928 Proposed BCP, which may explain its presence.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The proper liturgical posture for the Athanasian Creed is to be well outside the church, and preferably down the pub.....
....I'll get me coat....
Ian J.
Have to agree. The Athanasian Creed to me veers dangerously close to Salvation by Theology.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The proper liturgical posture for the Athanasian Creed is to be well outside the church, and preferably down the pub.....
....I'll get me coat....
Ian J.
Have to agree. The Athanasian Creed to me veers dangerously close to Salvation by Theology.
Could you elaborate? I am unfamiliar with that concept.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The proper liturgical posture for the Athanasian Creed is to be well outside the church, and preferably down the pub.....
....I'll get me coat....
Ian J.
Have to agree. The Athanasian Creed to me veers dangerously close to Salvation by Theology.
Could you elaborate? I am unfamiliar with that concept.
It starts:
"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly."
In other words, believe everything that follows, or you'll burn in Hell. Conversely, believe everything that follows and you won't. Salvation by mental assent to a bunch of propositions.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
Does anyone know what the proper liturgical postures are for the Athanasian Creed?
Standing throughout, possibly facing East.
The Athanasian Creed is seldom to be found these days. Entitled in BCP (in England) as "At Morning Prayer", it is appointed to be used in place of the Apostles' Creed, on certain liturgical days in the year, including Trinity Sunday. As an expedient, it may be used at Evening Prayer, particularly in churches that do not have both Morning & Evening Prayer.
I have only twice seen it used - once at Smoky Tom's in Toronto on Trinity Sunday, and another in my childhood church in Cornwall (Ontario) at evensong by a theologically enthusiastic clergy-- the latter time leaving a congregation grumpy at not getting home early enough to fire up the BBQ. Both times, we stood and faced east.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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sonata3
Shipmate
# 13653
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Is it permissible to use the Te Deum in place of the Gloria on Trinity Sunday?
Perfectly permissible in the TEC 1979 BCP, and not just on Trinity Sunday.
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"I prefer neurotic people; I like to hear rumblings beneath the surface." Stephen Sondheim
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WearyPilgrim
Shipmate
# 14593
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The proper liturgical posture for the Athanasian Creed is to be well outside the church, and preferably down the pub.....
....I'll get me coat....
Ian J.
Have to agree. The Athanasian Creed to me veers dangerously close to Salvation by Theology.
Could you elaborate? I am unfamiliar with that concept.
It starts:
"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly."
In other words, believe everything that follows, or you'll burn in Hell. Conversely, believe everything that follows and you won't. Salvation by mental assent to a bunch of propositions.
. . . And in still other words, Church defined by who's out, not who's in.
Posts: 383 | From: Sedgwick, Maine USA | Registered: Feb 2009
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I have a horrible suspicion that Father will drone his way through Death by Athanasia at Matins on Sunday morning (we have BCP Matins every Sunday at 930am, not that anyone other than the staff ever attends).
Surely no-one actually believes such tripe, do they?
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sonata3:
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Is it permissible to use the Te Deum in place of the Gloria on Trinity Sunday?
Perfectly permissible in the TEC 1979 BCP, and not just on Trinity Sunday.
I hope you don't use the one that starts "You are God" in case You forgot.
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Oinkster
"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
quote:
Originally posted by sonata3:
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Is it permissible to use the Te Deum in place of the Gloria on Trinity Sunday?
Perfectly permissible in the TEC 1979 BCP, and not just on Trinity Sunday.
I hope you don't use the one that starts "You are God" in case You forgot.
Why's that any different in principle to saying, "For thou only art holy, thou only art the Lord, thou only, O Christ, with the Holy Ghost, art most high in the glory of God the Father"? Christ presumably didn't forget that either?
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
quote:
Originally posted by sonata3:
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Is it permissible to use the Te Deum in place of the Gloria on Trinity Sunday?
Perfectly permissible in the TEC 1979 BCP, and not just on Trinity Sunday.
I hope you don't use the one that starts "You are God" in case You forgot.
"Why yes. Yes I am, I am indeed! Bless Me!"
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
quote:
Originally posted by sonata3:
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
Is it permissible to use the Te Deum in place of the Gloria on Trinity Sunday?
Perfectly permissible in the TEC 1979 BCP, and not just on Trinity Sunday.
I hope you don't use the one that starts "You are God" in case You forgot.
Why's that any different in principle to saying, "For thou only art holy, thou only art the Lord, thou only, O Christ, with the Holy Ghost, art most high in the glory of God the Father"? Christ presumably didn't forget that either?
First, there is that little word "for". So it's not informing God of who he is, but explaining why we're praising him. (I'm sure he knows that as well, but it is ever so slightly different.)
Second, "for thou only art holy" is a decentish translation of the Latin. "You are God" is an idiotic translation of "Te Deum", so the Gloria at least has the excuse of centuries of tradition.
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
If it's a question of "Is it a good translation of the Latin?" then certainly there are good reasons to object. If, however, we cut out of the liturgy every instance of telling God something God already knows, I don't think there would be much left...
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
First, there is that little word "for". So it's not informing God of who he is, but explaining why we're praising him.
"You are God . . . ." Are we simply telling God who he is, or are we telling God that we acknowledge he is indeed God?
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
Well, the grammar has definitely been re-jigged in translation.
Te Deum (both accusative) laudamus (1st person plural present active indicative)
The 1928 BCP has "We praise thee, O God." The "O" is an addition not present in the Latin, but it makes the sentence flow a bit better and doesn't obscure the meaning.
The 1979 BCP has "You are God; we praise You." To be fair, it's not miles from the sense of the Latin, but neither is it an especially faithful translation. It's a bit like changing the Collect for Advent II from "BLESSED Lord, who hast caused all holy Scriptures to be written for our learning" to "Lord, you inspired Holy Scripture to teach us" (this sort of change was rampant in the ICEL translations of the Roman Rite). Quite what motivated this, apart from an allergy to appositives, I'm not sure, but to my ear it was one of the ugliest tendencies of mod-lang liturgy.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Te Deum laudamus is one of those phrases that just can't be translated. The idea is that we praise God for the very reason that he **is** God.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
I defend the Athanasian Creed (which is neither) ... but if used (I've used it twice in 30 years) it needs a contextual demythologisiation - maybe only a sentence or so - first.
And probably best to drop the first couple of prefatory verses.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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