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» Ship of Fools   » Special interest discussion   » Ecclesiantics   » MW Report 3014 - St. Luke's, Headingley

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Source: (consider it) Thread: MW Report 3014 - St. Luke's, Headingley
Bishops Finger
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http://shipoffools.com/mystery/2017/3104.html

Very interesting report - I didn't realise that there was such a thing as The Lutheran Church In Great Britain (I do know, however, of 'foreign' Lutheran churches, such as the Svenska Kyrkan - Swedish Church - in London). Presumably the LCiGB is not particularly associated with the Evangelical Lutheran Church of England (http://lutheran.co.uk/), which seems to be rather more conservative.

Anyhow, full marks to the little church in Leeds for doing a Good Job.

I did, many years ago, attend a few Lutheran services at St. Anne and St. Agnes in London (before the congregation - part of the LCiGB - moved to St. Mary-at-Hill).

Perhaps the Lutheran churches in this country will expand if and when the Church of England goes all charismatic/implodes/disappears/delete as applicable.....

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
I didn't realise that there was such a thing as The Lutheran Church In Great Britain. . . . Presumably the LCiGB is not particularly associated with the Evangelical Lutheran Church of England.

They appear not to be. The links tab on their webpage states: "There is another Lutheran church in this country . . . ." and gives links to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of England and International Lutheran Council.

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

Posts: 9570 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
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Thank you, Miss Amanda - I didn't have time earlier to explore the links.

My recollections of Lutheran services in London are also of an eclectic, welcoming, international congregation, with decent music, and a not-too-unfamiliar liturgy - rather like Headingly, if rather larger numbers-wise!

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Bishops Finger
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Oddly enough, I find that the former Bishop of the LCiGB (Rt. Rev. Jana Jeruma-Grinberga) is now priest-in-charge of the Anglican church in Riga, Latvia. The Porvoo influence, I guess!

Speaking of which, we now have in this Diocese a Swedish priest, ordained in the C of S, working in the most deprived parish in this town (part of the town centre regeneration involves re-opening a closed church). I gather that another Swedish priest is on the way to assist.

Any other Lutheran pastors out there working in Anglican parishes?

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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keibat
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quote:
Any other Lutheran pastors out there working in Anglican parishes?
Having lived for over four decades in Finland, which is overwhelmingly, if nominally, an Evangelical-Lutheran country, I am well familiar with – and enormously appreciative of – the benefits of the Porvoo agreement in enabling and fostering Anglican-Lutheran cooperation. (The town of Porvoo, after which the Agreement is named, is in Finland – also known, in Swedish, as Borgå.)

Last September (2016) my wife and I were on holiday in Latvia and attended the Nordic and Baltic Deanery Synod, which was hosted by Bishop Jana – who is indeed now the Anglican chaplain in Riga.
(NB: a Deanery which comprises 8 countries!)
In our former home town in Finland, the Anglican services are often led by a Lutheran pastor, using Common Worship.
And I have an Icelandic friend, a Lutheran pastor also with Permission to Officiate in the Anglican Diocese in Europe, who served a curacy in an English steel town.

For anglophones and other internationals in the Nordic and Baltic countries, Porvoo has been very good news indeed.

On the downside – the references to other Lutheran churches is a reminder that the Lutheran world is even more institutionally split between conservatives and liberals than the Anglican world.

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keibat from the european far north and the lincs east rim

Posts: 19 | From: Alford, Lincs + Turku, Finland | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
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Well, as the C of E is perennially short of clergy (or so it seems), maybe you Finns, Swedes, et al, could continue to help us out!

I'd be quite happy to have a Lutheran pastor (preferably of a fairly 'high church' persuasion - he needs to be able to swing a thurible at Benediction as well as at Mass!) in charge of our little backstreet A-C parish. Given what I've said about Swedish clergy coming to a neighbouring town-centre parish, maybe that's not so silly an idea...

I do agree that Porvoo is one of the more encouraging features of recent years as regards inter-church relations, inter-communion, etc.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Pangolin Guerre
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Keibat, was that a typo, or correct, that the deanery comprises eight COUNTRIES?

You mention the institutional split among the Nordic churches between liberal and conservative tendencies. Could you give me a thumbnail sketch of how that looks, or point me to a website that might do that?

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
... Any other Lutheran pastors out there working in Anglican parishes? ...

I know one in Bristol. And I encountered one last year in a CofE religious house, who celebrated using a Porvoo form of joint liturgy.

I'd suspect that the most difficult issue for a Lutheran, or any other non CofE person, about working in an English parish would be getting the hang of the administrative peculiarities of the CofE which most of us probably take for granted - e.g. what an archdeacon does or how to make sure a wedding ends up valid.

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Knopwood
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:

Any other Lutheran pastors out there working in Anglican parishes?

In Canada, the Dean of the cathedral in Winnipeg is a Lutheran pastor. The Dean of the cathedral in Québec City was originally ordained in the EKD, but since that isn't an episcopal church he had to undergo priestly ordination in the Anglican rite to take up the post. In Toronto, conversely, the new pastor of First Evangelical Lutheran is an Anglican priest.

Before being raised to the purple, Susan Johnson, the National Bishop, was an honorary canon of Christ's Church Cathedral, Hamilton, in the Diocese of Niagara.

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Knopwood
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
... Any other Lutheran pastors out there working in Anglican parishes? ...

And I encountered one last year in a CofE religious house, who celebrated using a Porvoo form of joint liturgy.
There was a pastor for a few years at the Sisterhood of St John the Divine's convent in Toronto. She made her initial profession with the order but had left when I last visited in the fall.
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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
... Any other Lutheran pastors out there working in Anglican parishes? ...

I know one in Bristol. And I encountered one last year in a CofE religious house, who celebrated using a Porvoo form of joint liturgy.


Yes – Bristol Diocese has a swapping arrangement with the EKD in Bavaria.
Originally, our church, as the university chaplaincy church, took on a married couple doing a job share. When thy left, we got another clergy couple.

As they fit under the Meissen Agreement, having not been episcopally ordained, their eucharists were advertised as ‘Lutheran liturgy’

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Utrecht Catholic
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The German EKD is a very protestant church,it is not Eucharistic centred,in most parishes a monthly event..No vestments,only black preacher gown,even a coloured stole is hardly worn.
Their churches are very beautiful,look sometimes quite catholic,however the worship is low church,the sermon, often very rational is the most important part.
It can happen that the presiding minister is not even ordained,every layman/woman is in some cases allowed to preside at the communion service.
We do not care about the ordination,was said some years ago on t.v. by a well known EKD cleric.
So in many ways this church differs greatly with
the Church of England and the Church of Sweden,which I have visited some years ago,and I have to say that I felt very much at home at their Sunday Eucharist,vestments and a sound Eucharistic Prayer.
In November 2016,the Old-Catholics and the Church of Sweden entered into a full communion,recognising each other's catholicity.
Very similar to the 1931 Bonn Agreement,the intercommunion/now full communion between the Church of England and the Old-Catholics.

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Robert Kennedy

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Bishops Finger
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I went to what was advertised as a German Lutheran service many years ago, in the ecumenical church at Playa del Ingles on Gran Canaria. I think it must have been an EKD service - pastor wore a black gown, and (IIRC) a white ruff - would that be right? Liturgy in German, lots of hymns sung sitting (the hymnbook was in that wonderful German Gothic type!), but, again IIRC, the sermon was quite brief.

Fortunately, I have some smattering of German, so was able to join in at least with the hymns. Lutheran Church usually IME = Good Hymns!

(On the following Sunday, Mrs. BF and I attended the evening Spanish/English RC Mass, at which I was invited to read the Epistle - in English, I'm happy to say. There was also a Church of Sweden chapel in the town, and it did occur to me to wonder why they didn't share the ecumenical church building.)

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
black gown, and (IIRC) a white ruff - would that be right?

Yes, though we got one of ours into a chasuble and the 3 others into coloured stoles.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Utrecht Catholic
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White Ruffs are only used in Hamburg.
With regard to vestments,a very few places use them on special occasions,during weekday celebrations,but never on Sunday.
Most of the German Lutheran clergy do not like catholic expressions in their worship.
Why ? I have not a clue.
The US Lutherans follow the Scandinavian pattern.
When visiting recently the website of the Immanuel Lutheran Church in New-York,I noticed the chasuble and acolytes in white albs.
And according to the pastor,this is not a Highchurch parish,just middle of the Road.

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Robert Kennedy

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