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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Giving up Jesus for Lent
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
Our local Methodist church will observe Lent by giving up communion services until Easter Sunday. Seems a bit odd to me on a number of levels. Sunday is not a fast day, What can be gained by removing yourself from our Lord's grace? On the other hand not celebrating communion during the end of holy week is something I can understand as it reminds us that our Lord was killed. Is this a common practice that I have not seen before or just a local idea? If a common practice for you, do you find it useful?
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
We celebrate the Eucharist throughout Lent but not on Good Friday and then not again until Easter Sunday.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
I gave up Lent for Lent one year...no church, no Ship, bought all sorts of fripperies, ate chockies ... Every day was the same as the rest of the year ...it was awful. Never again
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
We celebrate the Eucharist throughout Lent but not on Good Friday and then not again until Easter Sunday.
We have the Liturgy of the Reserved Sacrament on Good Friday, but no music.
As for Graven Image's Methodist church - perhaps the intention is good, but the Sundays between Ash Wednesday and Easter Sunday are not in Lent.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Does this particular Methodist Church usually celebrate Holy Communion every Sunday, or are they perhaps just giving up one or two services?
Either way, it does seem a bit odd.
As with many Anglican/Roman (also Lutheran?) churches, we have Communion from the Reserved Sacrament on Good Friday (yes, I know a lot of Anglican churches don't do this), and no Celebration at all on Easter Eve until the Vigil.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
We celebrate the Eucharist throughout Lent but not on Good Friday and then not again until Easter Sunday.
We have the Liturgy of the Reserved Sacrament on Good Friday, but no music.
As for Graven Image's Methodist church - perhaps the intention is good, but the Sundays between Ash Wednesday and Easter Sunday are not in Lent.
The forty days of Lent are from Ash Wedesday until Holy Saturday, inclusive, not counting the Sundays. (Which is how the total of 40 days is arrived at.) But that is not to say that the Sundays during that time are outside of Lent. What it does signify is that the rigours of Lent on those six Sundays, may be relaxed or disregarded, particularly on the FOURTH Sunday in Lent.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Just so (and Lent 4 is when we give our beautiful rose-pink chasuble one of its biennial outings!).
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Just so (and Lent 4 is when we give our beautiful rose-pink chasuble one of its biennial outings!).
IJ
I didn't say it all and I like the mention of the rose-pink vestments for Lent IV. Biennial, or biannual?
Another mention is that the "A" word - Allelluia is suppressed for the duration of Lent and uttered with all-force as soon as Lent gives way to Easter.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Yes, a careless slip of the mind - I meant biannual, of course, the other occasion being Advent 3.
We, too, eschew the A-word, the Gloria, and flowers during Lent.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Oblatus
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# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Yes, a careless slip of the mind - I meant biannual, of course, the other occasion being Advent 3.
So semiannual, then?
Or, perhaps most clearly, twice a year.
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
A priest I've known was not a fan of Lent. Every year he'd remind me of the real first line of the familiar hymn:
"Lord, who threw out these forty days?"
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
Bishops finger asked. quote:
Does this particular Methodist Church usually celebrate Holy Communion every Sunday, or are they perhaps just giving up one or two services?
Yes every Sunday.
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop, our understanding is that the Sundays are not in Lent, but are sandwiched by Lent. But still no Alleluias. no Gloria, Lenten purple for vestments, frontal etc (we don't run to pink for Lent 4 or Advent 3). Also the other reminders of the penitential season with the general confession moved to the later position, use of the Trisagion, kneeling for the Great Thanksgiving.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I don't suppose most Methodists are bothered about the details of the calculation of Lent.
I'm surprised at Methodists having a communion as their main Sunday service, despite Mr Wesley's clear preference.
But surely there is a long established Protestant tradition of infrequent communion, precisely because it is taken so seriously it can only be after extensive preparation? (I'm thinking of Scots Presbyterians, but the mentality was surely widespread?)
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
Another mention is that the "A" word - Allelluia is suppressed for the duration of Lent and uttered with all-force as soon as Lent gives way to Easter.
Whereas the Orthodoxen add them in!
[edit: can't even get 6 words right!]
[ 21. February 2017, 07:25: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
venbede
The Methodists mentioned by Graven Image above are presumably United Methodists in the USA. I don't know what their normal practices are for Lent or for communion.
In British Methodism communion typically occurs once a month during the main service, although I do know of one Methodist church that also has a separate holy communion service every Sunday at 8.30am. I doubt that this is very common in British Methodism.
IME Lent has become more prominent in British Methodism over the years. When I was growing up in the Methodist church in the 70s and 80s little was made of it, and there was no talk of 'giving things up'. Then there began to be initiatives to get Methodists to use it as a time of reflection, or self-sacrifice, etc.
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Yes, a careless slip of the mind - I meant biannual, of course, the other occasion being Advent 3.
So semiannual, then?
Or, perhaps most clearly, twice a year.
Biennial = Every two years.
Biannual = Twice a year.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
venbede
The Methodists mentioned by Graven Image above are presumably United Methodists in the USA. I don't know what their normal practices are for Lent or for communion.
In British Methodism communion typically occurs once a month during the main service, although I do know of one Methodist church that also has a separate holy communion service every Sunday at 8.30am. I doubt that this is very common in British Methodism.
IME Lent has become more prominent in British Methodism over the years. When I was growing up in the Methodist church in the 70s and 80s little was made of it, and there was no talk of 'giving things up'. Then there began to be initiatives to get Methodists to use it as a time of reflection, or self-sacrifice, etc.
Hinde St (West London Mission) has, or had when i worshipped there in the late 90s/ early 2000s, at least one Communion service every Sunday ('Lord Soper's service'- 1936 Order) and quite often (more often than not?) two. But then I understand that Hinde St is, or was, very High Church by Methodist standards.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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BulldogSacristan
Shipmate
# 11239
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Posted
The Episcopal Church (US) lists Lenten Sundays as "X Sunday in Lent," as opposed to "of Lent." The other seasons all designate Sundays as "after" something or "of" something: 43rd Sunday After Penetecost, 2nd Sunday of Easter, etc. It's a fine distinction, but it makes sense.
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
Biennial = Every two years.
Biannual = Twice a year.
My dictionary explains it helpfully:
adjective
1. occurring twice a year; semiannual.
2. occurring every two years; biennial.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
Biennial = Every two years.
Biannual = Twice a year.
My dictionary explains it helpfully:
adjective
1. occurring twice a year; semiannual.
2. occurring every two years; biennial.
Yep! I wouldn't argue with that; I was being a bit brief. I am 100% certain, without reference to a dictionary, which way round it is and I was able to post without looking it up.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I don't suppose most Methodists are bothered about the details of the calculation of Lent.
widespread?)
venbede - A bit dismissive of how the forty days of Lent are allocated, but as I see it, it bears some relevence to this discussion.
The Church Kalendar has other periods of forty days throughout the year, including Christmas to Candlemass; Easter to Ascension; Feast of the Transfiguration to Holy Cross Day.
I notice that unlike the 40 days of Lent (where Sundays are not counted), these 40-day seasons are defined, including Sundays.
If there is a reason for this subtle difference, of whether or not to count the Sundays, I don't know what it is. Any offers?
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
We have the Liturgy of the Reserved Sacrament on Good Friday, but no music.
Good Friday with no music- now there is a sacrifice that I would feel. We turn off the organ after the Eucharist on Thursday night, and keep it off until the Easter proclamation at the Vigil. But there is enough great a capella music for use in that window that it is hardly a fast. In fact, Easter music becomes a bit of a let-down.
TEC's prayer book contains several Eucharistic prayers. We do Rite II, and rotate between the four Rite II prayers, based on season. Lent is when we (meaning my church- beware anyone who says "all Episcopalians do x") use the much-maligned Prayer C, which, despite its hokey 70s-era creation narrative, emphasizes God calling us throughout history, and our continued ignorance of that call, all leading up to the crucifixion. So we would definitely fall into the school of thought that the Eucharist is a particularly appropriate Lenten practice.
[ 21. February 2017, 16:58: Message edited by: Og, King of Bashan ]
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
The only music we have on Good Friday consists of two congregational hymns (Faithful Cross and When I survey), with perhaps a short motet or modern song during Communion.
Re 'High Church' Methodists, Wesley's Chapel in London has Communion every Sunday at 945am (except on Easter Day and the first Sunday each month, when it is part of the regular 11am service). They also have a regular Wednesday lunch-time Communion.
One cannot help feeling that this (like Hinde Street) is very much in the spirit of Father Wesley himself...
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
If there is a reason for this subtle difference, of whether or not to count the Sundays, I don't know what it is. Any offers?
Sunday is always a feast of the resurrection - so gloomy litaniies in procession and such like are inappopriate.
The reference to litanies in procession, does not answer my question as to whether or not to count Sundays during seasons of 40 days.
Apart from that, I appreciate Lent for what it is, when it comes round each year, including litanies in procession (gloomy or otherwise). If such litanies (which do not have to been in procession) don't take place Sundays, it is difficult to plan them when most people can be there.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
I ought to add that Sundays in Lent have place for elements of joyfulness, to give recognition to the weekly feast of the Resurrection.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
If there is a reason for this subtle difference, of whether or not to count the Sundays, I don't know what it is. Any offers?
Sunday is always a feast of the resurrection - so gloomy litaniies in procession and such like are inappopriate.
I fail to see anything gloomy about the honest recognition of human need. Quite the reverse.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
....
Re 'High Church' Methodists, Wesley's Chapel in London has Communion every Sunday at 945am (except on Easter Day and the first Sunday each month, when it is part of the regular 11am service). They also have a regular Wednesday lunch-time Communion.
One cannot help feeling that this (like Hinde Street) is very much in the spirit of Father Wesley himself...
IJ
Yes. Just for interest, the Hinde St worship list is here. Communion twice most Sundays and thrice on Covenant Sunday and Easter Day. A splendid place. If we'd stayed in London I'd still be worshipping there, solid Anglican that I am.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Hinde St (West London Mission) has, or had when i worshipped there in the late 90s/ early 2000s, at least one Communion service every Sunday ('Lord Soper's service'- 1936 Order) and quite often (more often than not?) two. But then I understand that Hinde St is, or was, very High Church by Methodist standards.
I used to attend this church myself, once upon a time. It still offers a communion service, according to the website.
Putting to one side the issue of High Church influences, I imagine that more Methodist churches don't hold special communion service because the take-up would be poor. Most congregations simply don't have the manpower or the resources to maintain early morning or evening services that hardly anyone would attend.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Yes. Hinde St has a big congregation- well, two or three congregations, and a lot of staff.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Thinking of sacramental Methodists, I haven't seen seasick around here for a long time.
I hope he is all right. I miss him.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
We celebrate the Eucharist throughout Lent but not on Good Friday and then not again until Easter Sunday.
Yebbut. That is normal. It isn't remotely comparable to no Eucharist/Mass/Holy Communion/Holy Liturgy/Lord's Supper/Breaking of Bread/Holy Qurbana (choose preferred term) for the whole of Forty days and Forty nights.
As a fast, I agree with Graven Image. That's weird.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
No Mass/Eucharist (or by whatever name) on Good Friday, does not rule out communion from the presanctified and reserved sacrament consecrated on Maundy Thursday.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
If there is a reason for this subtle difference, of whether or not to count the Sundays, I don't know what it is. Any offers?
As I understand it, the reason for the difference is that originally the essence of Lent was a period of strict fasting, and fasting is not permitted on Sunday.
That said, how to count the 40 days of Lent is anything but straightforward
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
If there is a reason for this subtle difference, of whether or not to count the Sundays, I don't know what it is. Any offers?
As I understand it, the reason for the difference is that originally the essence of Lent was a period of strict fasting, and fasting is not permitted on Sunday.
That said, how to count the 40 days of Lent is anything but straightforward
Thank you for that Nick Tamen and I thought my consideration about whether or not to count the Sundays, had been overlooked.
Anything but straightforward for counting the 40 days of Lent - I disagree entirely! All you have to do is to consider that there are six weeks of six days each (not counting Sundays) in Lent (6x6=36 days); there are four more days to add on from Ash Wednesday to the Saturday {the day before the first Sunday in Lent, inclusive) (36+4=40 days).
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
The Orthodox have a different calculation. Lent starts on White Monday and does not include Holy Week.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
The Orthodox have a different calculation. Lent starts on White Monday and does not include Holy Week.
Our date of Easter sometimes coincides with the Eastern Orthodox and sometimes not. I will have to check this out in order to appreciate what you say about the differences between 'us' and 'them'.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Lent in the Ambrosian Rite begins on the first Sunday (there is no Ash Wednesday). Whether or not Sundays are counted as part of the 40 days I don't know, or if they don't worry about the number.
On Fridays in Lent there is no celebration of the eucharist.
Interessante, as they say in Milan.
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
The Orthodox have a different calculation. Lent starts on White Monday and does not include Holy Week.
Our date of Easter sometimes coincides with the Eastern Orthodox and sometimes not.
The date of the Orthodox Easter is irrelevant. I was talking about how they calculate the previous forty days.
As Nick Tamen rightly said, the question is complex. The examples Angloid and I have given show that is the case from the varying ways it is calculated in different traditions.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
But the original question wasn't about how different ecclesial communities calculate Lent. It was on the idea of giving up Eucharist/Mass/Holy Communion/Holy Liturgy/Lord's Supper/Breaking of Bread/Holy Qurbana (choose preferred term) as one's discipline, one's way of keeping the fast for the whole period, however calculated.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Just so. It does seem a little odd for a church (such as the one in the OP) which has a tradition of weekly Eucharistic worship, to give that up for Lent.
OTOH, I can understand someone giving up Communion as a personal discipline - though that might be rather noticeable to others, and therefore not quite chiming in with Our Lord's instructions to keep one's fast secretly.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
The Orthodox have a different calculation. Lent starts on White Monday and does not include Holy Week.
Our date of Easter sometimes coincides with the Eastern Orthodox and sometimes not.
The date of the Orthodox Easter is irrelevant. I was talking about how they calculate the previous forty days.
As Nick Tamen rightly said, the question is complex. The examples Angloid and I have given show that is the case from the varying ways it is calculated in different traditions.
venbede I take exception to the tone of your post and I won't be drawn. In any case, no junior hosting please.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
Anything but straightforward for counting the 40 days of Lent - I disagree entirely! All you have to do is to consider that there are six weeks of six days each (not counting Sundays) in Lent (6x6=36 days); there are four more days to add on from Ash Wednesday to the Saturday {the day before the first Sunday in Lent, inclusive) (36+4=40 days).
It's pretty straightforward for Anglicans and Protestants to count as you describe. But in the Roman Rite, Lent ends on the evening of Maundy/Holy Thursday, prior to the Mass of the Last Supper. The Triduum are not part of Lent. And relevant Roman rite documents are, as I understand it, inconsistent as to whether whether Lent formally starts on Ash Wednesday or, as in the Ambrosian Rite, the Sunday after.
Either way, it's hard to get a clean forty days. And the considerations of fasting on Sunday, and therefore considerations of whether Sunday's count in the forty days, predate the Reformation. Hence my statement that how to count the days is not straightforward. Indeed, one could wonder whether the Anglican/Protestant method of counting the days is a post hoc attempt to make the 40-day count fit.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I take exception to the tone of your post and I won't be drawn. In any case, no junior hosting please.
In which case I do apologise, but I thought I was responding to your points.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I take exception to the tone of your post and I won't be drawn. In any case, no junior hosting please.
In which case I do apologise, but I thought I was responding to your points.
Apology accepted. It was the way it came over rather than what was said.
The Orthodox method of calculating Lent and Easter, my interest is stimulated, but I have something new to learn here and I would welcome the opportunity to look into it more deeply.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
Anything but straightforward for counting the 40 days of Lent - I disagree entirely! All you have to do is to consider that there are six weeks of six days each (not counting Sundays) in Lent (6x6=36 days); there are four more days to add on from Ash Wednesday to the Saturday {the day before the first Sunday in Lent, inclusive) (36+4=40 days).
It's pretty straightforward for Anglicans and Protestants to count as you describe. But in the Roman Rite, Lent ends on the evening of Maundy/Holy Thursday, prior to the Mass of the Last Supper. The Triduum are not part of Lent. And relevant Roman rite documents are, as I understand it, inconsistent as to whether whether Lent formally starts on Ash Wednesday or, as in the Ambrosian Rite, the Sunday after.
Either way, it's hard to get a clean forty days. And the considerations of fasting on Sunday, and therefore considerations of whether Sunday's count in the forty days, predate the Reformation. Hence my statement that how to count the days is not straightforward. Indeed, one could wonder whether the Anglican/Protestant method of counting the days is a post hoc attempt to make the 40-day count fit.
I understood that Passiontide was part of Lent, and so, the triduum would seem to be part of Passiontide. I am open to correction here, if I need to be corrected.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I understood that Passiontide was part of Lent, and so, the triduum would seem to be part of Passiontide. I am open to correction here, if I need to be corrected.
Per Universal Norms on the Liturgical Year and the General Roman Calendar (promulgated February 1969), ¶ 28: "The forty days of Lent run from Ash Wednesday up to but excluding the Mass of the Lord’s Supper exclusive."
Paschalis Sollemnitatis, ¶ 27: "The Lenten season lasts until the Thursday of this [Holy] week. The Easter Triduum begins with the evening Mass of the Lord's Supper, is continued through Good Friday with the celebration of the passion of the Lord and Holy Saturday, reaches its summit in the Easter Vigil, and concludes with Vespers of Easter Sunday."
Some sources will say that while the Triduum is not part of Lent, Friday and Saturday still count as two of the forty days of fasting.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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