homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | Register | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Special interest discussion   » Ecclesiantics   » What to do when the Psalm isn't in the hymn book

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.    
Source: (consider it) Thread: What to do when the Psalm isn't in the hymn book
Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047

 - Posted      Profile for Arethosemyfeet   Email Arethosemyfeet   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm leading worship on Sunday at my local CofS, and it is the custom and preference for the first hymn to be based on a psalm, and naturally I want to choose the psalm listed in the lectionary. Alas, I couldn't find one in either of the hymn books, so seeing as Psalm 130 is short and reasonably simple I opened a word doc and started typing:

quote:
Out of the depths to thee I cry
My voice, Lord God, to hear
Incline thy ear to me and be
He who my pleadings bears

If thou, O Lord, should mark my sin,
Then who of us could stand?
But glorious forgiveness is
Found in thy cleansing hand

The word of God it is my hope,
The Lord my soul awaits
More e’en than those who watch the night
For glimpse of dawning day

O Israel hope in the Lord
For steadfast love is his
And his is great power to redeem
From all iniquities.

Of course the morning after I realised the old Scottish Psalter and Paraphrases book had a suitable version but I'm still relatively pleased with my pastiche of a traditional Scottish metrical psalm.
Posts: 2878 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

 - Posted      Profile for Baptist Trainfan   Email Baptist Trainfan   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I like it - especially the typical convoluted grammar of lines 3&4 in the first verse!

Only problem is that one has to make "glorious" and "Israel" into three syllables - most people say them in two ("Is-rayl" and "glor-yus").

Posts: 9568 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

 - Posted      Profile for Sioni Sais   Email Sioni Sais   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I like it - especially the typical convoluted grammar of lines 3&4 in the first verse!

Only problem is that one has to make "glorious" and "Israel" into three syllables - most people say them in two ("Is-rayl" and "glor-yus").

Verse one is convoluted, but I have no problem with "glorious" and "Israel", certainly not the former. My non-U upbringing I suppose.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24086 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

 - Posted      Profile for Amanda B. Reckondwythe     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I like it - especially the typical convoluted grammar of lines 3&4 in the first verse!

And most especially the good sense to use a nominative pronoun with the verb "to be".

But here is a rendering of Psalm 23 so convoluted it makes the vocal folds ache. [Waterworks]

[ 31. March 2017, 15:03: Message edited by: Amanda B. Reckondwythe ]

--------------------
"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

Posts: 10392 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

 - Posted      Profile for Lyda*Rose   Email Lyda*Rose   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I like it - especially the typical convoluted grammar of lines 3&4 in the first verse!

And most especially the good sense to use a nominative pronoun with the verb "to be".

But here is a rendering of Psalm 23 so convoluted it makes the vocal folds ache. [Waterworks]

I think it was penned by Yoda.

--------------------
"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

Posts: 21324 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

 - Posted      Profile for Jengie jon   Author's homepage   Email Jengie jon   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
For the record there is a hymn book called Psalms for All Seasons which is a psalter with multiple versions of every psalm. For instance, there are no less than seven musical settings for psalm 130. The first by Martin Luther, although the Scots Psalter version does not seem to have got in.

Jengie

[ 31. March 2017, 16:31: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]

--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

Posts: 20761 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Piglet
Islander
# 11803

 - Posted      Profile for Piglet   Email Piglet   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
What tune do you propose for it, Arethosemyfeet?

We're getting Psalm 130 twice on Sunday; to Anglican chants by my Better Half in the morning, and as a verse-anthem set by Thomas Morley at Evensong.

I love ABR's version of Psalm 23 - it could indeed have been written by Yoda.

[Killing me]

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
... one has to make "Israel" into three syllables ...

"Is-RYE-el" is nearly always three syllables in the Scottish psalter. [Big Grin]

--------------------
I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 19918 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047

 - Posted      Profile for Arethosemyfeet   Email Arethosemyfeet   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I had in mind IRISH from Ch4 59 (1). Seems to fit well enough.
Posts: 2878 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
Piglet
Islander
# 11803

 - Posted      Profile for Piglet   Email Piglet   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
That sounds like a good plan. [Smile]

--------------------
I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 19918 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

 - Posted      Profile for North East Quine   Email North East Quine   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I like it - especially the typical convoluted grammar of lines 3&4 in the first verse!

Only problem is that one has to make "glorious" and "Israel" into three syllables - most people say them in two ("Is-rayl" and "glor-yus").

Most Scottish accents with a rolling r make it well-nigh impossible to pronounce "glorious" as "glor-yus." I was going to give "Immortal, Invisible" as an example of a hymn in which "glorious" has three syllables but listening to it on YouTube, it seems I'm used to singing it a bit differently, with no breath between "most blessed" and "most glorious" in order to fit in the three syllable "glorious" i.e. Most blessedmost glor-ri-us... [Hot and Hormonal]
Posts: 6383 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

 - Posted      Profile for Baptist Trainfan   Email Baptist Trainfan   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
There is also the Anglican pronunciation (in chants and anthems) of "sal-vay-si-on" when most of us normally say "sal-vay-shun".
Posts: 9568 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38

 - Posted      Profile for Honest Ron Bacardi   Email Honest Ron Bacardi   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I don't think it's specifically Anglican - more Tudor. That's the way everyone used to pronounce it. If you are singing a hymn, anthem or responses from that period they will most likely be designed to be sung to four notes, not three. In which case you have little option but to revert to the original pronunciation.

--------------------
Anglo-Cthulhic

Posts: 4820 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453

 - Posted      Profile for Metapelagius   Email Metapelagius   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
What hymnary are you using? The likely ones would seem to be CH4 or perhaps CH3. CH4 has a selection of psalms in numerical order; CH3 has an index in psalm number order. "Lord from the depths to thee I cried" is in both. I have never come across this set to anything other than Martyrdom, which suits it well.

A useful source (from which you may copy and paste rather than typing from scratch) is this, at least for the older versions.

--------------------
Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.

Posts: 1032 | From: Hereabouts | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636

 - Posted      Profile for BroJames   Email BroJames   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
This site is also a useful resource IMHO
Posts: 3306 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Trudy Scrumptious

BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647

 - Posted      Profile for Trudy Scrumptious   Author's homepage   Email Trudy Scrumptious   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
As this thread is really more about a worship practice than a Heavenly distraction, we Heavenly Hosts have decided to send it over to our friends in Ecclesiantics. Please continue your discussions of psalmody there. Fasten your seatbelts and enjoy the ride.

Trudy, Scrumptious Heavenly Host

--------------------
Books and things.

I lied. There are no things. Just books.

Posts: 7383 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047

 - Posted      Profile for Arethosemyfeet   Email Arethosemyfeet   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
What hymnary are you using? The likely ones would seem to be CH4 or perhaps CH3. CH4 has a selection of psalms in numerical order; CH3 has an index in psalm number order. "Lord from the depths to thee I cried" is in both. I have never come across this set to anything other than Martyrdom, which suits it well.

A useful source (from which you may copy and paste rather than typing from scratch) is this, at least for the older versions.

Now how the heck did I miss that?! I literally looked through ch4, both through the psalm section and the index, and using the search function on hymnary.org . Now I feel like a right numpty. [Razz]
Posts: 2878 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
Demas
Ship's Deserter
# 24

 - Posted      Profile for Demas     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The Free Church Sing Psalms (2003) has a good CM version in modern language (no thous [Razz] ).

--------------------
They did not appear very religious; that is, they were not melancholy; and I therefore suspected they had not much piety - Life of Rev John Murray

Posts: 1894 | From: Thessalonica | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322

 - Posted      Profile for Enoch   Email Enoch   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
If you go to this page on the Bristol Diocesan website, you'll find a link which will take you on to here where there is a complete metrical palter with quite a lot of canticles as well, with tunes, all available to download and free if used for liturgical purposes.

The tune it suggests for Psalm 130 in Common Metre is the House of the Rising Sun!

Connor Quigley's site here has a lot of examples of different ways of singing psalms.

--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

Posts: 7442 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047

 - Posted      Profile for Arethosemyfeet   Email Arethosemyfeet   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
At some point I'd like to learn how to sing psalms in traditional hebridean style but my Gaelic is going to need to be whole lot better first.
Posts: 2878 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643

 - Posted      Profile for dj_ordinaire   Author's homepage   Email dj_ordinaire   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I like it - especially the typical convoluted grammar of lines 3&4 in the first verse!

And most especially the good sense to use a nominative pronoun with the verb "to be".

But here is a rendering of Psalm 23 so convoluted it makes the vocal folds ache. [Waterworks]

I think it was penned by Yoda.
That's fantastic... sing it, we shall!

--------------------
Flinging wide the gates...

Posts: 10323 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322

 - Posted      Profile for Enoch   Email Enoch   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
At some point I'd like to learn how to sing psalms in traditional hebridean style but my Gaelic is going to need to be whole lot better first.

As I mentioned on the Ness FCC thread, that isn't a 'celtic' style of singing. It's descended from how we all sang psalms in the C17. Somebody once described to me attending a church somewhere in the Highlands 30-40 years ago where it sounded from his description as though they sang like that in English.

Not only that. Some of the Gaelic tunes have the same names as tunes that are used as conventional Common Metre psalm tunes in English in the CoS psalter, though it's next to impossible to recognise any similarity to the English version.

--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

Posts: 7442 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

 - Posted      Profile for North East Quine   Email North East Quine   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I have sung psalms that way in English in Dornoch Free Church within the last ten years, although they also have hymns accompanied by a guitar.


If you ever find yourself in Dornoch, I can recommend Dornoch Free Church for proper 40 minute sermons, psalms lined out by a precentor, and a very warm welcome.

Posts: 6383 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322

 - Posted      Profile for Enoch   Email Enoch   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
I have sung psalms that way in English in Dornoch Free Church within the last ten years, although they also have hymns accompanied by a guitar.


If you ever find yourself in Dornoch, I can recommend Dornoch Free Church for proper 40 minute sermons, psalms lined out by a precentor, and a very warm welcome.

Is Outrage. If organs are the worship of men's feet, then guitars are the worship of men's fingers. Next thing you know, they'll be letting the lassies play them.

--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

Posts: 7442 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

 - Posted      Profile for Baptist Trainfan   Email Baptist Trainfan   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Of course, there are many Christians today who would consider 40-minute sermons completely improper! [Devil]
Posts: 9568 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

 - Posted      Profile for Bishops Finger   Email Bishops Finger   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Only 40 minutes? What's the use of having an hourglass in the pulpit, if you can't turn it at least once ?

Is Most Definitely Outrage!

(The longest sermon at the Church Of My Yoof was 47 minutes' worth. I know this, coz I looked at my watch when it began, and again when Mrs. BF woke me up at the end...)

IJ

--------------------
Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 9633 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159

 - Posted      Profile for Angloid     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
47 minutes no doubt. But 47 minutes' worth?
Posts: 12905 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

 - Posted      Profile for Bishops Finger   Email Bishops Finger   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Alas, I couldn't say, being asleep at the time! IIRC, Mrs. BF was not particularly impressed by the sermon (or by my slumbers).

The Vicar responsible was a lovely chap in many ways, but preaching was not his forte. OTOH, waffling was.

IJ

--------------------
Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 9633 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

 - Posted      Profile for North East Quine   Email North East Quine   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
This is a tangent, but I recall one riveting Dornoch Free Church 40 min sermon from some years ago. It was preached by a student minister. He started by snapping his fingers to a regular beat for a minute or so and then said, in time to the snaps, "Every second some one dies. Every second someone goes to Heaven or to Hell. And one of these days one of these snaps will be YOU!"

Later in the sermon he endeared himself to my daughter by using Jane Austen's Persuation as an analogy.

It was an entirely waffle-free 40 minutes AND there was a lined-out Psalm. [Big Grin]

Posts: 6383 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Cottontail

Shipmate
# 12234

 - Posted      Profile for Cottontail   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
What hymnary are you using? The likely ones would seem to be CH4 or perhaps CH3. CH4 has a selection of psalms in numerical order; CH3 has an index in psalm number order. "Lord from the depths to thee I cried" is in both. I have never come across this set to anything other than Martyrdom, which suits it well.

A useful source (from which you may copy and paste rather than typing from scratch) is this, at least for the older versions.

Now how the heck did I miss that?! I literally looked through ch4, both through the psalm section and the index, and using the search function on hymnary.org . Now I feel like a right numpty. [Razz]
There are actually two versions of Psalm 130 in CH4! The second more modern one, which my congregation have taken to rather well, is to the traditional folk tune "MacPherson's Rant".

You probably missed them because the Psalm number does not correspond to the hymn number. So Psalm 23 is found at Hymn No. 14, for example. It makes anouncing them a bit tedious. I wish the compilers had spent more time on the Psalter part of the hymn book - I too always sing the Psalm as part of the service, and half the time I have to go hunting for the old metrical version. I use the site Metapelagius linked to.

I second the recommendation of the PCUSA "Psalms for all Seasons", which usually turns up something singable.

I like your version, btw. It sounds authentically metrical. [Smile]

--------------------
"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."

Posts: 2375 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745

 - Posted      Profile for Ecclesiastical Flip-flop   Email Ecclesiastical Flip-flop   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I like it - especially the typical convoluted grammar of lines 3&4 in the first verse!

Only problem is that one has to make "glorious" and "Israel" into three syllables - most people say them in two ("Is-rayl" and "glor-yus").

Lines 3 & 4 in verse 1 - as in modern German and I believe in old English as well, the verb goes to the end of a sentence.

--------------------
Bonne Année! - Frohes Neues Jahr! - Felice Anno Nuovo! - ¡Feliz Año Nuevo! – Happy New Year!

Posts: 1926 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Nick Tamen

Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164

 - Posted      Profile for Nick Tamen     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cottontail:
I second the recommendation of the PCUSA "Psalms for all Seasons", which usually turns up something singable.

"Psalms for All Seasons" is a great resource. But just to clarify, it is not published by the PC(USA). It's published by the publishing house of the Christian Reformed Church in North America and the Reformed Church in America, and it's a companion to their hymnal, "Lift Up Your Hearts."

FWIW, the new PC(USA) hymnal, "Glory to God," includes at least one setting of almost all the psalms that pop up in the lectionary.

--------------------
The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

Posts: 2634 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Sober Preacher's Kid

Presbymethegationalist
# 12699

 - Posted      Profile for Sober Preacher's Kid   Email Sober Preacher's Kid   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Voices United places the psalms at the back. 832 is Psalm 130, "Macpherson's Farewell". Though as he was likely a Presbyterian, I'll take it that he did, in fact, rant.

--------------------
NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.

Posts: 7645 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322

 - Posted      Profile for Enoch   Email Enoch   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Voices United places the psalms at the back. 832 is Psalm 130, "Macpherson's Farewell". Though as he was likely a Presbyterian, I'll take it that he did, in fact, rant.

As MacPherson was a gypsy who was hangit for rieving and highway robbery, if he was anything, he'd be more likely to have been a pape, though in the North East, he just might have been a piskie.

[ 19. April 2017, 08:29: Message edited by: Enoch ]

--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

Posts: 7442 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged


 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
Check out Reform magazine
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
  ship of fools