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» Ship of Fools   » Special interest discussion   » Ecclesiantics   » Unusual request for a Mystery Worship (Page 1)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Unusual request for a Mystery Worship
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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Didn't know whether to post this here or in Styx . . .

We've had a rather unusual request for a MW report from a person who is physically challenged.

She pointed out that physically challenged people such as herself are often at a disadvantage in church as well as in other places.

If, for example, she attends church with a person who is not physically challenged, she finds that people often greet her companion and engage the companion in conversation while ignoring her.

She also finds that if she chooses a seat where she can see, hear and participate in the service with the least amount of difficulty, someone will invariably position themselves so as to "cut her off" without regard to her needs.

So (if I read her request correctly) she is asking for a Mystery Worshipper who is challenged like herself to report on a service from the standpoint of how well the Mystery Worshipper was accommodated.

(I've tried to be careful in wording the above so that the nature of the request is clear without actually revealing what the person's physical challenge is and thus providing a clue as to who it might be.)

If anyone "fits the bill," so to speak, and would like to attend a service and report on it given the above requirements, could you please PM me? Thanks.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
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Actually, in general perhaps it isn't a bad idea to include a section in mystery worshipper reports highlighting difficulties that disabled people might have in the church. I'm not sure one has to necessarily be disabled in order to notice.

For example, I church I know well places wheelchairs right at the front between the congregation and the choir, which I think might be a bit conspicuous for some people.

Also one might mention poor acoustics, hard-to-read notices, projectors, mumbling preachers etc.

A bit subjective, for sure, but it might help someone.

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arse

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
A church I know well places wheelchairs right at the front between the congregation and the choir, which I think might be a bit conspicuous for some people. Also one might mention poor acoustics, hard-to-read notices, projectors, mumbling preachers etc.

Old Miss Amanda's hearing isn't what it used to be, and she's grown quite accustomed to poor acoustics and mumbling preachers (although she suspects others hear them quite well).

Wheelchairs at the front at least make their occupants able to see the goings-on without one's view being blocked -- which is one of the objections made by the person making the request.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Augustine the Aleut
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This thread raises a very good question. Perhaps the MW questionnaire should suggest that we keep an eye out for accessibility--- perhaps in the pew section??
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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
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Not just the pew section, but the entrances and exits, the restrooms/toilets, the church hall if coffee/tea are provided, etc. When I worked in my parish office, I occasionally had phone calls from newcomers asking if we had wheelchair access. (Yes, we did. Since our church building is very new, we have to be compliant -- which I hope we would want to be anyway.)

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:

Wheelchairs at the front at least make their occupants able to see the goings-on without one's view being blocked -- which is one of the objections made by the person making the request.

An adult person sitting in a wheelchair is the same height as an adult person sitting or kneeling in a pew. Not quite sure why this is an issue, except that I suppose the person using the wheelchair doesn't have the opportunity to slide along in the pew a little.

We have one regular who now uses a wheelchair - her family position her chair at the end of the pew they sit in, so she can sit with her family. I don't expect she'd want to be parked in some kind of special wheelchair zone.

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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I think it would be a good idea to add a question about accessibility to the MW reporting form. I can run it by Simon.

Getting back to the request, all I can tell you at this point is that the person in question is not wheelchair bound.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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quote:

She also finds that if she chooses a seat where she can see, hear and participate in the service with the least amount of difficulty, someone will invariably position themselves so as to "cut her off" without regard to her needs.

So (if I read her request correctly) she is asking for a Mystery Worshipper who is challenged like herself ...

(I've tried to be careful in wording the above so that the nature of the request is clear without actually revealing what the person's physical challenge is ...

The problem for me is that if I don't know any more than this about the challenge, I can't tell whether I am similarly challenged.

Does the problem affect height of viewpoint (as being unable to stand might do)? Does it involve lack of mobility (so you can't slide along a pew to deal with a person in front)? Are there perceptual problems such as inability to hear or see (don't have to specify, but it might be useful to say something like "this person needs to be within 10 feet of the pulpit for perception reasons").

Finally, given that the person gets routinely overlooked by people conversing with her companion, is that due to an appearance issue, a confusion issue (e.g. assuming that persons with that challenge cannot communicate and/or understand) or to a problem of height?

FWIW, I have a challenge that forces me to sit during worship most of the time and involves pain and a certain limiting of mobility. I would prefer it if I didn't have to be looking at the backside of the person in front of me during the Creed etc. but that's not going to happen unless I'm in the front row (too crowded). So maybe that matches the "cut off" problem. But I doubt I'm a good match for your requester otherwise because my physical problem is invisible and does not lead people to ignore or overlook me in conversaton.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
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To be honest, it is quite hard to see how we can possibly satisfy this request. We don't know geographically where the person is, we don't know what kinds of church they're interested in and we don't know what their disability is - and we don't want to speculate otherwise we might "out" them.

We might be able to slightly adjust the focus of the MW reports going forward, but it is just impossible to address this request without more information.

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arse

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
We might be able to slightly adjust the focus of the MW reports going forward, but it is just impossible to address this request without more information.

I thing we're going to have to settle for that. The person told me she is a Shipmate, although to be honest I don't know what her Ship name is. But I don't want to "out" her by going into specifics to the point where she can be identified.

I don't know her geographic location either.

I will write to Simon re adding a question to the MW form re "Is the church able to accommodate persons with disabilities?"

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
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Without knowing the geographical location, I do not know whether I am in a position to consider MWing this church, or not.

Either it is in my part of the world, or it isn't!

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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!

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Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
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I suspect that the question needs to be more along the lines of "What apparent provision was made for people with disabilities?"

A full accommodation for people with disabilities is an extensive piece of work and one I have only really seen tackled when there were people in the congregation who not only had specific disabilities but were strong enough to make themselves awkward. Even then it tackled their disabilities and not others. It is not that congregations are unwilling, it is that the imagined provision is often different from the needed provision. They spend money doing one thing only for something else to be required.

I also feel that a mystery worshipper would not be in the position to find out whether there were large print books available if you asked unless it was on the service sheet or they just happened to sit in a chair with one. Even if on the service sheet does not mean it is readily available. For instance, some congregations would only print enough large print copies of the service sheet for regulars who require them.

Jengie

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
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This is true. We don't really know what provision there is for particular disabilities unless one has that disability and turns up.

Maybe we just need more MWs from people with disabilities.

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arse

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
Without knowing the geographical location, I do not know whether I am in a position to consider MWing this church, or not.

The request was not to MW a particular church.

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Maybe we just need more MWs from people with disabilities.

Yes.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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leo
Shipmate
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Good idea. A stroke last year has left me disabled and I recently was in a church whewre people were reluctant to let me sit in a pew which was one of the few I could manage. A steward asked them twice.

I was treated like a half wit.

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Spike

Mostly Harmless
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Is there a reason why she doesn't want to register as a MW reporter herself?

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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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I've invited her to. She may just yet.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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lily pad
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A few remarks about each church from the point of view of access for those who have different abilities would be great. It is certainly a basic item that is missing from the current formula.

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Sloppiness is not caring. Fussiness is caring about the wrong things. With thanks to Adeodatus!

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

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quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
A few remarks about each church from the point of view of access for those who have different abilities would be great. It is certainly a basic item that is missing from the current formula.

Agreed. I proposed the idea to Simon, as I don't have the ability to change the form myself. I haven't heard back from him yet -- I hope he hasn't been abducted by gypsies again.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
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One of the reasons I stopped going to church was it was sometimes feast of famine. Sitting at the back of a church, even with clear sight lines does not help someone with a hearing impairment. Sitting at the front with clear sightlines does not improve hearing if the preacher is a mumbler, a rambler, and ex-tempore speaker. I remember, once, getting terribly excited when I heard that a pastor would provide an on-line sermon. Imagine my disappointment when it turned out to be a video.

So far, I have received 2 copies of sermon notes from a protestant church I visit sometimes when I am out and about (My friend is an elder, and has some pull.) Another in NZ provided me with a full sermon, with the usual caveat, and I was able to follow along. (Thanks Zappa!)

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Even more so than I was before

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St. Gwladys
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Our church has a loop system, and this used to be advertised on our weekly new sheet - not sure if it still is, I'll have to check
We have large print books, but most of the songs are on the overhead projector, though the music group leader usually gives the number too.

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"I say - are you a matelot?"
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From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)

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Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
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Perhaps this is not the place to argue, but I can assure you that, as a profoundly deaf person, a loop system only makes a mumbler or a mutterer's speech more louder, not clearer. Most preachers, or speakers, of my acquaintance start out loudly but they all end up in a lower tone, until the very loud AMEN.

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Even more so than I was before

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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I'm not deaf, but my hearing is not what it used to be. Unless the sound system is very good and the preacher's diction is very clear, it's hard for me to make out what is being said.

And if it's in Spanish -- fuggetaboudit!

One of the most useful devices I ever saw was a sermon outline projected onto the screen while the preacher preached it.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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verity
Apprentice
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I've just applied to be a MW.
I'm autistic, and have recently found i have a bit of an obsession with accessibility in churches.
I don't know a lot about physical disabilities or issues, but i'd agree with having a question about facilities in the MW form.
"What does the church appear to offer towards inclusion?" Would be good.
In my previous church I did quite a bit of work on inclusion, and made a whole page on our website about inclusion amd accessibility for disabilities, so that's a start.

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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
I remember, once, getting terribly excited when I heard that a pastor would provide an on-line sermon. Imagine my disappointment when it turned out to be a video.

Our place posts audio recordings of the sermons, but that's really for people who couldn't make it to church, rather than for those with trouble hearing. It's a reasonable recording (recorded directly from the audio system) so it might help people with marginal hearing, but I can't see that it would improve on a loop system.
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
I remember, once, getting terribly excited when I heard that a pastor would provide an on-line sermon. Imagine my disappointment when it turned out to be a video.

Our place posts audio recordings of the sermons, but that's really for people who couldn't make it to church, rather than for those with trouble hearing. It's a reasonable recording (recorded directly from the audio system) so it might help people with marginal hearing, but I can't see that it would improve on a loop system.
Please re-read Pete's comments about loop systems. I am nowhere near as deaf as Pete is, but wear hearing aids well turned up. Loops do not work very well for me. Diction is not better, just louder, and depending on actual loop, there may be a different tone to the sound which is offputting and hard to get used to , especially in a church not normally attended.

I find a clear line of sight more useful as it aids in lip reading. That may not mean right down the front but it definitely does not mean up the back. Diction is important even fpr those without hearing disabilities. Too many taking a public part in a service mumble. That sounds like an excuse but it is true. When I was doing homiletics as part of a BTh, we spent sometime at the beginning of each lecture on voice production and projection and exercises for clarity of speech. We did not enjoy them, but they were useful.

[ 31. May 2017, 00:35: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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quote:
Originally posted by verity:
I'd agree with having a question about facilities in the MW form. "What does the church appear to offer towards inclusion?" Would be good.

The trouble with terms like "inclusion" is that they are euphemisms for something more, erm, direct. Thus they are likely to be misunderstood.

The suggestion I proposed to Simon for adding to the form is: "Does the church make an effort to accommodate people with disabilities?"

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
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quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
...
So far, I have received 2 copies of sermon notes from a protestant church I visit sometimes when I am out and about (My friend is an elder, and has some pull.) Another in NZ provided me with a full sermon, with the usual caveat, and I was able to follow along. (Thanks Zappa!)

We do our best [Biased] (though in the pad I attend these days there is no sound system)

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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

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Given how good voice recognition programmes seem to be these days, is it at all possible to link via one of those from the speaker to any screen in the church?

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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It would be amusing to see how various voice recognition systems cope with the habits of various speakers. I know I get some very strange messages in the Visual Voice Mail app on my phone.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Given how good voice recognition programmes seem to be these days, is it at all possible to link via one of those from the speaker to any screen in the church?

Given how "good" speech recognition is these days, I suspect that the titters running around the church might detract from the message a touch.

It might be possible, however, that such software could produce a first pass of a sermon transcript that a human could beat into shape fairly quickly.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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If you're lucky, you'll get the heuristic that favors any L word--ANY other L word--over "Lord," with amusing and occasionally blasphemous results. The optical character recognition program I used a few years ago was like this. [Help]

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Pomona
Shipmate
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Disabilities of course are not always visible or physical - things like sensory profiles of church venues help enormously, but just don't occur to many churches. The sound-softening effect of wooden pews is a strong point in their favour for many folks with sensory processing difficulties (which can be part of a number of neuro issues, not just autism), whereas churches held in warehouses etc can be unbearably noisy.

The attitude of the congregation/leader(s) is so important. Things like understanding that many conditions are fluctuating, or that some disability aids are not needed constantly (but are still needed) is important - one of the reasons there's been a big push for 'wheelchair user/using' rather than 'wheelchair bound' is that many wheelchair users do not need their chairs all the time, but there's a perception that unless someone's in a wheelchair 24/7 they don't really need it. The same goes for many chronic illnesses, which may not always be obvious. I've been in far too many churches which support the 'scrounger' rhetoric by suggesting some disabled people don't really need the support they use or ask for.

I'm both disabled (in multiple ways) and do some volunteering in this field, so I am particularly aware of this - but far too many Christians excuse what is at best incompetence and at worst active ableism because it's church. It's at the point where I will just expect Christian environments to be worse at accessibility and disability issues than secular environments - places like Greenbelt (which has won awards for its disabled access provision from secular disability organisations) are rare within Christian circles. Ableism is a huge, huge problem within churches.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by Pomona:
There's been a big push for 'wheelchair user/using' rather than 'wheelchair bound' is that many wheelchair users do not need their chairs all the time, but there's a perception that unless someone's in a wheelchair 24/7 they don't really need it.

[TANGENT] Not to derail the thread, but I have a story to tell that is too good not to tell here.

One of my dearest friends, now deceased, was the nephew of the woman who worked as Irving Berlin's secretary for 19 years. We went to visit her once -- a very old lady in a wheelchair. Naturally she regaled us with stories about Irving Berlin. At one point she asked, "Perhaps you'd like to see some memorabilia I've collected over the years?" Of course we assented. At which point she got up out of her wheelchair, walked into the bedroom, fetched a large box down from a closet shelf, and brought it back into the living room to show us.

Something I'll never forget.

[/TANGENT]

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Gramps49
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There is a twelve-year-old young man who is currently working on an Ability App that will allow people with disabilities to determine if certain businesses are accommodating. I would hope he also includes churches in the app.

[ 02. June 2017, 15:08: Message edited by: Gramps49 ]

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Bishops Finger
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Thank you, Miss Amanda, for that little anecdote!
[Killing me]

Our Place is a big old barn of a church, with a number of steps where no steps need be (people obviously weren't physically challenged in 1909). To adapt it in order for every part of the building to be easily accessible to all might not be impossible, but would be impossibly expensive.

We do our best (a former porch, closed for years, has been refurbished and reopened to provide level access into the church itself), but we always welcome suggestions from people with varying needs as to how best to accommodate them.

Pomona makes an interesting point re noise. The acoustics in the church are excellent, but I find trying to hold a conversation in the hall very 'trying' indeed, IYSWIM, and I now avoid 'coffee hour' after the service because of this.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
verity
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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by verity:
I'd agree with having a question about facilities in the MW form. "What does the church appear to offer towards inclusion?" Would be good.

The trouble with terms like "inclusion" is that they are euphemisms for something more, erm, direct. Thus they are likely to be misunderstood.

The suggestion I proposed to Simon for adding to the form is: "Does the church make an effort to accommodate people with disabilities?"

True, but it covers everything then, not just disability.
And the MW form does explanation notes to the MW, so after a while it would become obvious what it meant.
And remember lots of disabilities are hidden, so accessibility is a better word than "accommodate people with disabilities"
It's about allowing everybody to be included, rather than specifically disabled people. Things that will benefit everyone (and hopefully change mindset in.the process)

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verity
Apprentice
# 18571

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
I remember, once, getting terribly excited when I heard that a pastor would provide an on-line sermon. Imagine my disappointment when it turned out to be a video.

Our place posts audio recordings of the sermons, but that's really for people who couldn't make it to church, rather than for those with trouble hearing. It's a reasonable recording (recorded directly from the audio system) so it might help people with marginal hearing, but I can't see that it would improve on a loop system.
My suggestion here would be to use the recording to make a transcription of the sermon and put them both on the website - side by side.
Then everyone is included.
I don't like listening to sermons - I prefer to read what's being said. And I have no hearing problems (although I suppose sensory processing is easier when I can see what's being said)

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verity
Apprentice
# 18571

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
place is a big old barn of a church, with a number of steps where no steps need be (people obviously weren't physically challenged in 1909). To adapt it in order for every part of the building to be easily accessible to all might not be impossible, but would be impossibly expensive.


IJ

It does depend what those steps are for.
if they're to go up different levels (for example the nave being lower than the altar), then it's not a good plan to replace completely with ramps.
Ramps are good, but some people cannot walk up or down slopes - so you need both.
Obviously if the floor can be levelled then that's great, but as you say, lots of expense there, usually.

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Bishops Finger
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Good point about the need for ramps and steps, verity.

Our problem stems from the fact that the church and hall (the hall came first) are built on a slight slope, so that shallow steps were built at the west end of the church as it progressed towards the hall, IYSWIM, in order to eventually link the two (the church was built in two stages, WWI intervening). This was not done until 1959, when a new porch was created for that purpose, BUT it then involved climbing up steps from the street into the new porch, and then climbing down the steps into the church...

And yes, there are differences in level at the east end, too, albeit only one or two shallow steps, but you still have to go down steps into the vestry and sacristy, where the only WC not in the hall is to be found (down yet another step [Roll Eyes] ).

As I said, a former porch on the level (the original entrance to the uncompleted church) was recently re-opened, and now forms the main way in. Those in wheelchairs who want to go into the hall, from the church, have to take to the street! Fortunately, we have disabled access to the WCs in the hall (though they could be improved), and a portable ramp for wheelchair access from the hall lobby (where the WCs are) into the hall itself - up yet another bloody step.

We'd love to demolish our useless west end, along with the hall, and start afresh on the level, DDA compatible, and all, but....£££££££££

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Nick Tamen

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# 15164

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quote:
Originally posted by verity:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by verity:
I'd agree with having a question about facilities in the MW form. "What does the church appear to offer towards inclusion?" Would be good.

The trouble with terms like "inclusion" is that they are euphemisms for something more, erm, direct. Thus they are likely to be misunderstood.

The suggestion I proposed to Simon for adding to the form is: "Does the church make an effort to accommodate people with disabilities?"

True, but it covers everything then, not just disability.
And the MW form does explanation notes to the MW, so after a while it would become obvious what it meant.
And remember lots of disabilities are hidden, so accessibility is a better word than "accommodate people with disabilities"
It's about allowing everybody to be included, rather than specifically disabled people. Things that will benefit everyone (and hopefully change mindset in.the process)

Likewise, steps taken to enlarge accessibility may not be obvious either. I wonder if the better question is something like "What indications did you see that the church seeks to make the building and services accessible to all worshippers?" That would focus the response on concrete things that could be observed ("there were places for wheelchairs," or "large-print bulletins and hymnals were available"), as well as on congregational attitude—does this seem to be a place that tries to be accessible?

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Mark Wuntoo
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The suggestion of an additional question/s is IMO an excellent one.
A loop system is an essential as is good digital projection.
In the church I know best chairs are removed from a row when a wheelchair user arrives.
When I was a preacher I always projected my sermon points on a screen (sometimes with graphics - think about that when I got to the sermon about when life begins and abortion [Ultra confused] ): I had positive feedback for this practice (if not always for the content!). It helps to concentrate the mind when preparing, keeps the preacher 'on track' and, hopefully, it helps to keep people awake. [Big Grin]
However, now that I have a hearing challenge there are some preachers with whom I cannot cope - the ones who shout and have a heavy accent are a pain to my ears as well as to my theology: no sound system will accommodate them - and no training will help as such people are not easily changed (to put it kindly).

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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.

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Mark Wuntoo
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It's not just about the preacher, of course! In the church I know best the door to the toilet with access for people with disabilities cannot be opened by anyone who is not strong-armed; yesterday Mrs Wuntoo had to find a fit and strong young person to open it. As others have said, it's about awareness of the needs of others, simple.

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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.

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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wuntoo:
The suggestion of an additional question/s is IMO an excellent one.
A loop system is an essential as is good digital projection.

But there were a couple of posters upthread who said that loop systems made matters worse for them. So a loop system may work for many (St Sanity has one and there never have been any complaints) but perhaps also many for whom it is a hindrance. What's the answer?

I talked of voice recognition - I have used one for about a 15 years and it works for me.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Mark Wuntoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wuntoo:
The suggestion of an additional question/s is IMO an excellent one.
A loop system is an essential as is good digital projection.

But there were a couple of posters upthread who said that loop systems made matters worse for them. So a loop system may work for many (St Sanity has one and there never have been any complaints) but perhaps also many for whom it is a hindrance. What's the answer?

I talked of voice recognition - I have used one for about a 15 years and it works for me.

Indeed, so if it doesn't work for me I don't switch it on. But it must be available to those for whom it works which is why I say it is an essential.
Voice recognition wouldn't work for preachers because voices vary so much (Methodists, for example, rely on numerous leaders). And certainly not for those who shout with a heavy accent. [Help]

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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.

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Lothlorien
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I was one who said loop system often does not help. I turn it on to test but often it goes off.

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Jengie jon

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For loop systems to work properly you usually need a young deaf person who understands what it means for them to work. Older people with hearing loss too often just blame problems on the hearing aid.

When I did the sound system we always had a loop listener whose job was to tell us when it failed to work plus we could listen in as well if we wanted to. The problem is that there are two different broadcast systems. One operator used to just listen to the loop with the result that the sound for the rest of the congregation was not good. We did find that the loop sound normally had to be louder than the speaker sound as those using the loop only got it through the loop while the speaker system was really reinforcing the preacher's volume.

Jengie

[ 05. June 2017, 13:53: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]

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Boogie

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I am sound and AV person at our Church. I have a loop system user who gives me the thumbs up or down if I've got it wrong.

Now if we could do the same with preachers ...

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Mark Wuntoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I am sound and AV person at our Church. I have a loop system user who gives me the thumbs up or down if I've got it wrong.

Now if we could do the same with preachers ...

I would like to volunteer for vetting the preacher.

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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wuntoo:
... And certainly not for those who shout with a heavy accent.

Irrespective of accent, can you recall any preacher who shouted who had anything to say that you and everyone else present would have been anything other than better off if they had not had to hear it?

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