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» Ship of Fools   » Special interest discussion   » Ecclesiantics   » Names in Intercessory Prayers (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Names in Intercessory Prayers
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:

On the other hand, I was just remembering that the 1978 BCP rite for baptism has the godparents name the person to be baptized three times: first, when presented for baptism, all three names are used. Then, at the actual baptism, the priest uses the formal first name. Finally, at the anointing, the priest will use the familiar name. So it's far from unheard of for fist, middle, and last name to be used in the context of a sacrament.

Ah, my other favorite Americanism - the assumption that everyone has precisely three names [Biased]

The 1979 BCP (is that what you meant?) reads "I present N. to receive the Sacrament of Baptism." on page 301, "N., I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen." on page 307, and "N., you are sealed by the Holy Spirit in Baptism and marked as Christ’s own for ever. Amen." on page 308.

I think the three different name-forms you cite must be a local use. When those of my children who were baptized in the US were baptized (with that rite), they were presented (all three Christian names, no surnames), baptized (all three Christian names, no surnames), and anointed (can't remember whether all Christian names or just the use-name were used here). The only place our surname was mentioned was in the bulletin where the names of those baptized were listed.

Posts: 4745 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
The 1979 BCP (is that what you meant?)

I'd get on you for being pedantic, but now that I think about it, it is equally possible that I hit "7" when I should have hit "2", so it might be possible that someone would be confused about which book I was referring to.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638

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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:


The surname is a thing of the world, denoting blood connections, secular inheritance, and legal identity. There is nothing morally wrong with these things but they don't really have a place in the distinctly Christian life. It is for this reason that Orthodox monastics shed their surnames and are known by their Christian name alone.

I'm not concerned either way regarding intercessory prayers. But it occurs to me that even though a 'Christian name' does emphasise the individuality of our relationship with God, a family name reminds us of the reality that religious faith, and membership of the Orthodox (or any other) Church, often relies heavily on transmission through families, and family-like communities.

Family names remind us that we're each part of a community from the day of our birth - and our community expands thereafter, to include the Christian family (according to our religious tradition), and the whole of humanity.

If that's what your surname means to you personally, then I have no argument with that. In fact, I think it's actually quite lovely that you can draw that connection.

Of course, for many of us, the surname is not a family name at all, and we would never think of it as denoting a family connection, with all that family can entail, (joy, nurture, sorrow, abuse, estrangement, and so forth). And even where the surname happens also to be the family name, the family might have had little, if anything, to do with our coming to faith.

As treasured as you must always hold your experience of the use of the surname as a family name, I would be reluctant to base the liturgical practice of the Church on such personal symbolism.

It is in baptism and the other Mysteries that we find our identity within the household of God, and it is our Christian names that express our place within this household.

[ 10. August 2017, 23:44: Message edited by: The Scrumpmeister ]

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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis

Posts: 14664 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

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quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Surnames can save me a million explanations when we pray for the other Og, who's mother has died. (That happened under my RL name one Sunday. No, wrong Og, my mother's in fine shape.)

Anyone who remembers when this apprentice died will understand this.

Jengie

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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Walking 18 miles to help Refugees get an education.

Posts: 20572 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged



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