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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Names in Intercessory Prayers
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
On the other hand, I was just remembering that the 1978 BCP rite for baptism has the godparents name the person to be baptized three times: first, when presented for baptism, all three names are used. Then, at the actual baptism, the priest uses the formal first name. Finally, at the anointing, the priest will use the familiar name. So it's far from unheard of for fist, middle, and last name to be used in the context of a sacrament.
Ah, my other favorite Americanism - the assumption that everyone has precisely three names ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
The 1979 BCP (is that what you meant?) reads "I present N. to receive the Sacrament of Baptism." on page 301, "N., I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen." on page 307, and "N., you are sealed by the Holy Spirit in Baptism and marked as Christ’s own for ever. Amen." on page 308.
I think the three different name-forms you cite must be a local use. When those of my children who were baptized in the US were baptized (with that rite), they were presented (all three Christian names, no surnames), baptized (all three Christian names, no surnames), and anointed (can't remember whether all Christian names or just the use-name were used here). The only place our surname was mentioned was in the bulletin where the names of those baptized were listed.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
The 1979 BCP (is that what you meant?)
I'd get on you for being pedantic, but now that I think about it, it is equally possible that I hit "7" when I should have hit "2", so it might be possible that someone would be confused about which book I was referring to.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:
The surname is a thing of the world, denoting blood connections, secular inheritance, and legal identity. There is nothing morally wrong with these things but they don't really have a place in the distinctly Christian life. It is for this reason that Orthodox monastics shed their surnames and are known by their Christian name alone.
I'm not concerned either way regarding intercessory prayers. But it occurs to me that even though a 'Christian name' does emphasise the individuality of our relationship with God, a family name reminds us of the reality that religious faith, and membership of the Orthodox (or any other) Church, often relies heavily on transmission through families, and family-like communities.
Family names remind us that we're each part of a community from the day of our birth - and our community expands thereafter, to include the Christian family (according to our religious tradition), and the whole of humanity.
If that's what your surname means to you personally, then I have no argument with that. In fact, I think it's actually quite lovely that you can draw that connection.
Of course, for many of us, the surname is not a family name at all, and we would never think of it as denoting a family connection, with all that family can entail, (joy, nurture, sorrow, abuse, estrangement, and so forth). And even where the surname happens also to be the family name, the family might have had little, if anything, to do with our coming to faith.
As treasured as you must always hold your experience of the use of the surname as a family name, I would be reluctant to base the liturgical practice of the Church on such personal symbolism.
It is in baptism and the other Mysteries that we find our identity within the household of God, and it is our Christian names that express our place within this household.
[ 10. August 2017, 23:44: Message edited by: The Scrumpmeister ]
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Surnames can save me a million explanations when we pray for the other Og, who's mother has died. (That happened under my RL name one Sunday. No, wrong Og, my mother's in fine shape.)
Anyone who remembers when this apprentice died will understand this.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
My experience has been that in the service leaflet, wherever the prayer list is (for people to take home), the full name is listed unless requested otherwise; in the service itself, persons for whom more immediate prayers have been requested (i.e., not necessarily those we've been praying for the past 3 years) are read, but first/familiar name only. The deceased are prayed for in the service by their full name. Sometimes, "mother of so-and-so" will be added verbally, sometimes in the service leaflet.
It's a good mix - you're not asking an intercessor to stumble over last names (much), and the first/familiar names keep the prayers a little shorter, but the name in the leaflet can help people see who in the community is asking for prayer (and hopefully if they know the person, they might send them a card, pay them a visit, etc., as appropriate).
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Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Our service leaflet only lists Christian names. God knows who they are without last names.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
It can also depend on whether the church knows the full name. If a church is open for people to pray and allows people to leave names, then they are limited by the form those names are given in. In such circumstances you can end up praying for John Gerald Fortesque, Mrs Johnson, Stephen and Aunty Ann. You hope God makes sense of it.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
In my setting, the number of Margarets (for example) of a certain age whom we might be praying for makes the use of surnames imperative, and I well remember the audible gasp in the congregation when a church warden leading intercessions prayed “for X about to be bishop of (nearby) Y” where X happened also to be my Christian name.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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teddybear
Shipmate
# 7842
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Posted
I always used: For all of those who have requested our prayers, those we have promised to pray for and for those standing most in need of our prayers, that God may grant them the graces they need the most at this particular time in their lives. We pay to the Lord....
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Yes, we sometimes (if the list and sermon are both looooooooooooooooong) use a similar formula.
Individual names are mentioned e.g. at weekday services.
God, She knows.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
I am for first and last names, because I once heard in the prayers of the people, " For those who have died, Susan." As it was a vary common name and there were several people by that name who attended our church one was left to wonder until the end of the service who had died? I also think in such a case it would have been best before the start of the service if someone had announced that a member of the congregation has died. One can easily give first and last names without details when praying for other reasons during the service.
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Some priests don't keep confidentiality unless specifically told. Some people suffer things like rape and assault. Some are injured when they drive intoxicated. Some are going to jail. So when praying by name we must pray for only the conventional sufferings, right?
And please remember some parishioners are gossips (so are some priests) and like to ask why family member's name was mentioned and I don't really like to say that we don't wish to speak of it more than twice before I utter swear words, think violent thoughts and render myself prayer material in their eyes. So, yes, ask before saying someone's name. How hard is it? Please don't alienate us by being foolish about this.
(Yes this happened to us)
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
A very good post, thank you.
I generally have a rule not to mention names at all (and certainly not without permission) unless someone has experienced a sudden and disastrous event such as a major heart attack, car accident, house fire etc. which are common knowledge. This is basically because of the fear of mentioning some folk but causing offense by inadvertently omitting others.
There is an issue with the long-term sick as the intercessions can turn into a lengthy list of similar names each week, on the other hand these folk may fade from common consciousness if their names are not given.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
Oh I agree with that. Names should only be used with permission. I usually include a short silence in that part of the intercessions for any others we know who are in special need of help or healing. If people know about someone who is ill and ask why they are not on the list then I tell them that they have asked not to be. Sometimes people have no problem with ‘everyone’ knowing that they are ill, but don’t want it in writing on the notice sheet or to have their name mentioned in public worship.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
I usually include a short silence in that part of the intercessions for any others we know who are in special need of help or healing.
I likewise.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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