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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Books set in Ireland
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Ronja
Shipmate
# 4693
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Posted
I've just got back from a trip to Ireland, and I found it a wonderful place. Now I have this urge to read as much as I can before I start planning the next trip. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
However, I haven't a clue as to Irish literature. I know of Seamus Heaney, and that's about it. To begin with I'm looking for historical fiction, maybe something with Celtic mythology (but also more recent stuff).
Biographies and contemporary novels might also be of interest.
Anything that you have read and really enjoyed basically!
Posts: 741 | From: Up North | Registered: Jul 2003
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Caty S.
I read, therefore I am.
# 11996
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Posted
Well, it's old (published 1812) rather than historical and Anglo-Irish rather than just Irish, but I really enjoyed The Absentee by Maria Edgeworth. Her book Castle Rackrent has also been recommeded to me, but I haven't read it yet.
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Formerly Caty M.
Posts: 2118 | From: Devon | Registered: Nov 2006
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Anna B
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# 1439
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Posted
I like Kate O'Brien's work---The Land of Spices is particularly good.
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Bad Christian (TM)
Posts: 3044 | From: near a lot of fish | Registered: Oct 2001
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
For fairly contemporary books, how about the Barrytown trilogy, by Roddy Doyle? The books (The Commitments, The Snapper and The Van) are set in the late 1980s. He also wrote Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha.
The first time I visited Ireland I felt like I was stepping into the set of books (again contemporary) by Maeve Binchy.
On a lighter note, and not by an Irishman, I enjoyed "Round Ireland with a Fridge" by Tony Hawkes.
Posts: 2711 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
It is worth seeking out But Come Ye Back: A novel in stories by Beth Lordan (William Morrow, 278 pages, $23.95). It's filled with beautiful, evocative writing.
Ross
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 14213 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
"Round Ireland With a Fridge" is brilliant, I'd definitely recommend it. A similar premise (ie a comedian travelling round Ireland) is Pete McCarthy's "McCarthy's Bar" - I didn't enjoy it so much but will give it another try sometime - my sister thought it was hilarious.
Historical fiction: "Star of the Sea" by Joseph O'Connor is a very bleak novel about the potato famine - the title is the name of a ship taking refugees from Ireland to the USA. It's beautifully written though, but not one to read if you're feeling depressed!
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"I'm not drunk, I'm just avoiding the potholes" (Glasgow bumper sticker)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5087 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
Just a few ideas off the top of my head...
Meave Brennan's short stories. They're depressing as hell but extremely good.
James Joyce's "Dubliners". Definitely my favourite book about Dublin.
John McGahern's "Amongst Women" is quite good, as are William Trevor's short stories (both authors are good chroniclers of mid-20th century Irish rural life in all its grimness).
Colm Toibin's "Blackwater Lightship" is a good start for contemporary fiction (gay man dying of AIDS in 1990s Ireland...we Irish do like happy topics ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ).
IMO there are surprisingly few really good novels about contemporary Ireland (urban, multicultural, post-Catholic, post-boom).
Alot of Irish novelists assume a basic knowledge of Irish politics and history, which might be a bit frustrating.
Some people are going to disagree, but avoid "Angela's Ashes" like the plague...
Posts: 3738 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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philip99a
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# 13799
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Posted
Great topic but you don't say where you've been in Ireland. To me it matters. I love to read fiction set where I've been or am going.
1) I'd certainly hugely endorse "The Dubliners" by James Joyce. But, after that, I suggest that you watch John Huston's last film "The Dead" (directed entirely from memory with no script, he had every moment in his head according to one of the cast) adapted from one of the stories. The end of the film (like the end of the book) I find unbearably moving.
2) Certainly Roddy Doyle for (fairly) recent Dublin. Then follow up by watching the Alan Parker film of "The Commitments"
3) A real odd one this. But if you've been to the far South-West, particularly to Dingle, then do try "The Islandman" (Oxford Paperbacks) by Tomás O'Crohan. Translated from the original Irish, it's totally unclassifiable. Part a history of the lost way of life on the Blaskett Islands off the Dingle 'for the like of us will never be again', part myth and fairy tale, part personal diary. I was transfixed.
4) A dear Irish friend who lives in London, lives and breathes Flann O'Brien, especially "The Third Policeman". But I've never managed to get into it. Too surreal and disjointed for me.
5) Finishing on-screen (it's not what you asked exactly but that's Ireland) do try to dig out "The Ballroom of Romance" with many superb performances but especially the great Cyril Cusack.
And, I'd agree, avoid "Angela's Ashes" (the movie) and also, perhaps more controversially, avoid "The Wind that Shakes the Barley".
I can never decide about "The Quiet Man", maybe just see it to see what Hollywood (and John Wayne!) made of Old Ireland.
Then you'll need some Irish music playing while you're reading. Now that's another story....... ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
[ 09. September 2008, 21:08: Message edited by: philip99a ]
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We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time T. S. Elliot (Four Quartets)
Posts: 1300 | From: Leicester (UK) | Registered: Jun 2008
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yerevan:
Just a few ideas off the top of my head...
Meave Brennan's short stories. They're depressing as hell but extremely good.
James Joyce's "Dubliners". Definitely my favourite book about Dublin.
John McGahern's "Amongst Women" is quite good, as are William Trevor's short stories (both authors are good chroniclers of mid-20th century Irish rural life in all its grimness).
Colm Toibin's "Blackwater Lightship" is a good start for contemporary fiction (gay man dying of AIDS in 1990s Ireland...we Irish do like happy topics ).
IMO there are surprisingly few really good novels about contemporary Ireland (urban, multicultural, post-Catholic, post-boom).
Alot of Irish novelists assume a basic knowledge of Irish politics and history, which might be a bit frustrating.
Some people are going to disagree, but avoid "Angela's Ashes" like the plague...
I read "Blackwater Lightship" and cried my eyes out! Great story but you're right, depressing as hell! I'm American of Spanish and Irish ("Spirish") descent and I'm certain I get most of my morose depression from the Irish side and my hair-trigger temper from the spanish side of the family! Anyway, I like to read lots of contemporary fiction about Ireland, so this is a great thread.
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 2801 | From: God forgive me, a red state! | Registered: Aug 2007
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Paddy O'Furniture:
quote:
Originally posted by Yerevan:
Just a few ideas off the top of my head...
Meave Brennan's short stories. They're depressing as hell but extremely good.
James Joyce's "Dubliners". Definitely my favourite book about Dublin.
John McGahern's "Amongst Women" is quite good, as are William Trevor's short stories (both authors are good chroniclers of mid-20th century Irish rural life in all its grimness).
Colm Toibin's "Blackwater Lightship" is a good start for contemporary fiction (gay man dying of AIDS in 1990s Ireland...we Irish do like happy topics ).
IMO there are surprisingly few really good novels about contemporary Ireland (urban, multicultural, post-Catholic, post-boom).
Alot of Irish novelists assume a basic knowledge of Irish politics and history, which might be a bit frustrating.
Some people are going to disagree, but avoid "Angela's Ashes" like the plague...
I read "Blackwater Lightship" and cried my eyes out! Great story but you're right, depressing as hell! I'm American of Spanish and Irish ("Spirish") descent and I'm certain I get most of my morose depression from the Irish side and my hair-trigger temper from the spanish side of the family! Anyway, I like to read lots of contemporary fiction about Ireland, so this is a great thread.
I thought Angela's Ashes was one of the most depressing books I have ever had the misfortune to read. I wanted to bomb the Vatican, slit my wrists, kill all men, etc, etc. I was in a towering rage for hours after reading it.
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 2801 | From: God forgive me, a red state! | Registered: Aug 2007
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flags_fiend
Shipmate
# 12211
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daisydaisy:
On a lighter note, and not by an Irishman, I enjoyed "Round Ireland with a Fridge" by Tony Hawkes.
I thought this book was brilliant, and would definitely recommend it!
flags x
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"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."
Posts: 233 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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The Weeder
Shipmate
# 11321
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Posted
Anne Enwright 'The Gathering' is wonderful. It won the 2007 Man Booker prize. A real Irish voice. And yes Tiobins 'Blackwater Lightship' is amazing. I have read it 3 times and am currently reading a book of his short stories.
Maeve Binchy writes very sentimantal and obviuos stuff, BUT she has a real Dublin 'voice' which is the only reason I still read the occasional offering. I hear the sounds of my Dublin childhood as I read!
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Still missing the gator
Posts: 2447 | From: The Forest | Registered: Apr 2006
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
I remember reading a book I really enjoyed as a teenager, but I can't recall the name or the author. One of the main characters, a very clever boy expected to do great things, got hit on the head playing hurling (I nearly wrote shinty!) and came to a bad end.
Potentially embarrasing admission: I've enjoyed all the Marian Keyes novels that I've read. However, they're mostly not actually set in Ireland, though the characters are Irish.
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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East Price Road
Shipmate
# 13846
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Posted
After hearing Niall Williams speak at Greenbelt last month, I got hold of a charity shop copy of his novel "Four Letters of Love", set in several parts of Ireland, and it is a beautiful novel - there are a number of reviews of it on Amazon.
I would also recommend John Banham's "The Sea", which a book group I belong to read a while ago. We all liked it, and again reviews are around on Amazon and elsewhere on the net.
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"Fishes stop and ask me where I'm bound." (Incredible String Band)
Posts: 736 | From: West Yorkshire | Registered: Jun 2008
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Ronja
Shipmate
# 4693
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Posted
Wow! So many promising suggestions! I knew this was a good place to ask. Thanks people.
I spent most of my trip in the countryside of Northern Ireland and a couple of days in Dublin. But I definitely want to see the south next time.
Yerevan, that "basic knowledge of Irish history and politics" seems really hard to come by. I'm trying to get my head around it and finding it really confusing! Hopefully some of the reading will help.
As for the music... maybe I should start a different thread on that, but please if you have any recommendations, post them as well! I spent some really lovely time in pubs with live music, it was good beyond even my expectations.
Posts: 741 | From: Up North | Registered: Jul 2003
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rat:
I remember reading a book I really enjoyed as a teenager, but I can't recall the name or the author. One of the main characters, a very clever boy expected to do great things, got hit on the head playing hurling (I nearly wrote shinty!) and came to a bad end.
Book Sleuth could be your friend ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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sermons are back in fashion
Posts: 16550 | From: top dead centre | Registered: Sep 2004
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yerevan:
... Some people are going to disagree, but avoid "Angela's Ashes" like the plague...
Yup - I disagree - it isn't an easy, cosy read by any means, but the book shows another side of Ireland and her history. Certainly worth giving it a go.
Posts: 2711 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ronja:
Yerevan, that "basic knowledge of Irish history and politics" seems really hard to come by. I'm trying to get my head around it and finding it really confusing! Hopefully some of the reading will help.
For history, I can recommend Robert Kee's Ireland - A History, which predates the Celtic Tiger days but certainly gave me a good insight twenty-odd years ago. (That was when I had the strange experience of turning a page and seeing my name jump out at me - a namesake heavily involved in the Rising and the Wars that followed.) Kee has also written other books about Irish nationalism if you want to look deeper at that aspect.
Roddy Doyle has already been mentioned, but not A Star called Henry - which covers the early years of the twentieth century from the perspective of a dirt-poor Dubliner. It's an inside view of poverty, nationalism and the Civil War - highly fictionalised but I enjoyed it hugely.
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"The question should not be 'What would Jesus do?' but rather, more dangerously, 'What would Jesus have me do?'" (Rev'd Peter Gomes) Staying Afloat or Plumbing the Depths?
Posts: 2468 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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rabcpresbyterian
Shipmate
# 12060
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Posted
Anything by Bernard MacLaverty, particularly Grace Notes, Cal and Lamb. Beautifully wrought stories which are definitely not in the Dear Ould Oirland category. They are contemporary and set mostly in Northern Ireland. The "troubles" are a backdrop but the stories are people's stories. They are, by turns, uplifting and heartrending.
Lamb is about the friendship between a priest and a boy. Lamb and Cal have both been filmed, the latter with Helen Mirren.
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Any man's death diminishes me, for I am part of mankinde - John Donne
Posts: 894 | From: here be dragons | Registered: Nov 2006
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
Is there a historical novel based on Newgrange (the prehistoric burial site)? I didn't get to see it last time I visited Dublin, and I'd like to know more about it but a book packed with facts would go right over my head!
Posts: 2711 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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aumbry
Shipmate
# 436
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Posted
I recommend Good Behaviour by Molly Keane it is about a young woman growing up in an eccentric ascendancy family and is very amusing.
I thought Angela's Ashes was rather a good read and whilst it has grim moments it also has a lot of humour. The following volume "Tis" was not up to the same standard.
Aumbry
Posts: 3862 | From: Quedlinburg | Registered: Jun 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ronja
Yerevan, that "basic knowledge of Irish history and politics" seems really hard to come by. I'm trying to get my head around it and finding it really confusing! Hopefully some of the reading will help.
Back in the sixties, I did research on dialects in Northern Ireland. I was trying to see if modern dialect boundaries corresponded to the areas settled by people from various parts of England and Scotland. In order to do this, I had to acquaint myself with Irish history. It was a struggle.
I was amazed at how much trouble I had comprehending what I read. Usually I had no trouble absorbing information from my reading. Eventually I realized that I would read something highly improbable but true, and say to myself, "That can't be true." I got to the next bit and said, "That can't be true." These things were true, and I made a major mistake in dismissing them. I finally decided that in order to understand Irish history, you need a willing suspension of disbelief.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 16807 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rabcpresbyterian:
Anything by Bernard MacLaverty, particularly Grace Notes, Cal and Lamb. Beautifully wrought stories which are definitely not in the Dear Ould Oirland category. They are contemporary and set mostly in Northern Ireland. The "troubles" are a backdrop but the stories are people's stories. They are, by turns, uplifting and heartrending.
Lamb is about the friendship between a priest and a boy. Lamb and Cal have both been filmed, the latter with Helen Mirren.
"Cal" was a beautiful film. Sad, but beautiful. A tear-jerker and then add to it my Irish sentimentality and I sobbed all over the place, watching it!
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 2801 | From: God forgive me, a red state! | Registered: Aug 2007
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East Price Road
Shipmate
# 13846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by East Price Road:
I would also recommend John Banham's "The Sea", which a book group I belong to read a while ago. We all liked it, and again reviews are around on Amazon and elsewhere on the net.
Correction: The author of "The Sea" is John Banville not John Banham - my mistake.
Posts: 736 | From: West Yorkshire | Registered: Jun 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ronja:
To begin with I'm looking for historical fiction, maybe something with Celtic mythology (but also more recent stuff).
You might like Morgan Llywelyn's novels: historical fiction based on the old myths and legends. "On Raven's Wing" is the story of Cuchulainn, and that and "Finn Mac Cool" were the first two I read - I thought they were very good. If you like this kind of book, you'll probably like these.
You can find a complete list of her works on Wikipedia.
[ 10. September 2008, 19:04: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 19028 | From: Orphalese | Registered: May 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
I will likely reap opprobrium by suggesting Somerville & Ross' Some Experiences of an Irish R.M but hope that some shipmates might be interested in John Brady's Stone from the Heart, one of the better Troubles-based mystery. John Brady is one of the few authors who can capture Dublin speech and his Inspector Matt novels give an accessible perspective of Dublin as it changed in the last quarter of the 1900s.
Posts: 4688 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
Certainly Roddy Doyle and Dubliners. For historical fiction, The Kings in Winter by Cecelia Holland is terrific. It won't actually explain the history to you (it's set in 1014) but it does a great job of capturing the disorienting switchbacks in Irish political history. It's one of my favorite historical novels.
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"I love being married. It's so great to find that one special person you want to annoy for the rest of your life."
--Rita Rudner
Posts: 5705 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daisydaisy:
quote:
Originally posted by Yerevan:
... Some people are going to disagree, but avoid "Angela's Ashes" like the plague...
Yup - I disagree - it isn't an easy, cosy read by any means, but the book shows another side of Ireland and her history. Certainly worth giving it a go.
I'm not sure it shows another side really. If you grow up in Ireland the "my horrible priest-ridden childhood" thing is a bit of a cliche. They even have an acronymn...MIMs (Miserable Irish Memoirs). I remember getting to the line about how miserable Irish childhoods are more miserable than other nationalities' miserable childhoods and thinking he was pulling the piss and it was actually going to be really funny. He wasn't and it wasn't ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Re history. Irish history is my job and I still can't think of a really good one volume history of Ireland, though there are lots of excellent books on various aspects. Ernie O'Malley's "On another man's wound" is worth a look if you're interested in the War of Independence (its a biography). Its impressionistic and obviously not impartial, but gives a good flavour of the period. Terence Brown's "Ireland: a social and cultural history, 1922-2002" might be a good place to start when it comes out. Its an update of an older book with a similar name IIRC.
Posts: 3738 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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angelica37
Shipmate
# 8478
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Posted
I quite enjoy Peter Tremayne's Sister Fidelma mysteries set in Ireland around 600ad.
Posts: 1337 | From: Suffolk | Registered: Sep 2004
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yerevan
Re history. Irish history is my job and I still can't think of a really good one volume history of Ireland,...
I think J. C. Beckett's The Making of Modern Ireland is excellent as far as it goes. However, it was written in the 1960s.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 16807 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Curious
Shipmate
# 93
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Posted
Siobhan Dowd's 'A Pure Swift Cry' is beautifully evocative about a young girl growing up in Ireland. Add it to your list!
Curious
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Erin - you are missed more than you could know. Rest in peace and rise in glory - to provide unrest in the heavenly realms.
Posts: 1325 | From: Betwixt and between | Registered: May 2001
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Antisocial Alto
Shipmate
# 13810
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Posted
I just finished "By the Lake" by John McGahern. It's a very peaceful, meandering read- more a collection of incidents than one overarching plot.
Posts: 449 | From: United States | Registered: Jun 2008
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fatpanda
Shipmate
# 2709
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ronja
Yerevan, that "basic knowledge of Irish history and politics" seems really hard to come by. I'm trying to get my head around it and finding it really confusing! Hopefully some of the reading will help.
posted by Moo:
Eventually I realized that I would read something highly improbable but true, and say to myself, "That can't be true." I got to the next bit and said, "That can't be true." These things were true, and I made a major mistake in dismissing them. I finally decided that in order to understand Irish history, you need a willing suspension of disbelief.
I've been married for over 3 years to a Belfast Born and Bred Boy (though he has now lived "away from home" has his mother insists on referring to it ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) for longer than he lived there.
He says you have to have grown up with Irish history and politics to have the slightest chance of understanding it!
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love S x
do justice, love mercy, walk humbly with your God
Posts: 242 | From: Weegieland | Registered: Apr 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
A Star Called Henry is one of my favourite books!
Rather disturbing is White Plague by Frank Herbert. A scientist develops a virus that kills all women on Earth. He then wanders through rural Ireland, where he is confronted with the consequences of his actions. Rather unsettling.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 3067 | From: Amazon region, Brazil | Registered: Aug 2002
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ten thousand difficulties
Shipmate
# 9506
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Posted
I have to disagree with one above poster. I hated 'The Gathering' by Anne Enright. Had to read it so I could run a book group on it but otherwise it would have been in the Oxfam shop pretty fast!
However, 'A Swift Pure Cry' by Siobhan Dowd is a really wonderful book. Unconditional recommendations there. It gives a really strong picture of fairly modern Irish life.
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Ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt
Posts: 167 | From: The wilds of South London | Registered: May 2005
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Calindreams
Shipmate
# 9147
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Posted
If you fancy a bit of light reading about Dublin and its environs why not try 'Finnegans Wake' by James Joyce. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore
Posts: 665 | From: Birmingham, England | Registered: Mar 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Antisocial Alto:
I just finished "By the Lake" by John McGahern. It's a very peaceful, meandering read- more a collection of incidents than one overarching plot.
It's published as 'That They May Face the Rising Sun' in the UK/Ireland, which is a much more evocative title.
It's a twentieth century pastoral. I haven't read anything quite like it.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 6760 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Clarence
Shipmate
# 9491
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Posted
Not quite sure why the recommendations for reading Joyce have so far excluded Ulysses . Ok, I know it is huge and not the sort of thing to be embarked upon lightly, but not only is it a remarkable Irish voice (both male and female), but it does capture something of Dublin and Irishness that even Dubliners doesn't do.
(It is also one of the greatest works of fiction, ever. ![[Cool]](cool.gif) )
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I scraped my knees while I was praying - Paramore
Posts: 647 | From: Over the rainbow | Registered: May 2005
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Qupe
Shipmate
# 12388
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Posted
I woud thoroughly recommend this book by William Trevor:
Ireland - Selected Stories
and in fact anything by him. I love his style of writing; it's very evocative.
Sorry that I still don't know how to do links on this site. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) I need to go and practice, eh? (runs off with tail between legs)
[fixed broken scroll lock - Mamacita]
[ 14. September 2008, 14:43: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
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'Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.'
Posts: 802 | From: Down the road from the chocolate factory | Registered: Feb 2007
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Qupe, try practicing links on the UBB Practice Thread in the Styx. Also, tinyURL.com is useful for shortening long links. Links that run to three or four lines on the screen have a tendency to mess with the horizontal scroll lock.
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"Life is short, and we do not have much time to gladden the hearts of those who travel with us. So be swift to love, make haste to be kind."
Posts: 18052 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fatpanda:
quote:
Originally posted by Ronja
Yerevan, that "basic knowledge of Irish history and politics" seems really hard to come by. I'm trying to get my head around it and finding it really confusing! Hopefully some of the reading will help.
posted by Moo:
Eventually I realized that I would read something highly improbable but true, and say to myself, "That can't be true." I got to the next bit and said, "That can't be true." These things were true, and I made a major mistake in dismissing them. I finally decided that in order to understand Irish history, you need a willing suspension of disbelief.
I've been married for over 3 years to a Belfast Born and Bred Boy (though he has now lived "away from home" has his mother insists on referring to it for longer than he lived there.
He says you have to have grown up with Irish history and politics to have the slightest chance of understanding it!
I think one important thing to do before reading Irish history is to leave behind the idea that the Irish or their past are somehow exceptional (ie exceptionally poor/Catholic/violence/tragic/whatever). Ireland suffers from the fact that its usually compared to the rest of the UK or even the US, both of which have very unique histories. In other words its the English that are odd not the Irish
Irish history is no more tragic or violent or complex than the history of many other small European countries. For example the revoluntionary period which led to partition and independence was really quite tame by the standards of Europe in the 1920s.
PS Personally I find English history much more confusing. I don't think I'll ever figure out who was fighting who in the Wars of the Roses as long as I live
Posts: 3738 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yerevan:
I think one important thing to do before reading Irish history is to leave behind the idea that the Irish or their past are somehow exceptional (ie exceptionally poor/Catholic/violence/tragic/whatever). Ireland suffers from the fact that its usually compared to the rest of the UK or even the US, both of which have very unique histories. In other words its the English that are odd not the Irish
Irish history is no more tragic or violent or complex than the history of many other small European countries. For example the revoluntionary period which led to partition and independence was really quite tame by the standards of Europe in the 1920s.
PS Personally I find English history much more confusing. I don't think I'll ever figure out who was fighting who in the Wars of the Roses as long as I live
The period in Irish history I know best is the seventeenth century, especially 1640-1660. It took me a while to realize that you didn't simply have two groups fighting each other; you had many different groups who formed temporary alliances with other groups. People ended up fighting beside those they had fought against the year before.
In Beckett's The Making of Modern Ireland, he tells of a man (the Duke of Ormonde, I believe) who seized Dublin Castle twice during a period of a few months, apparently for different sides. In fact, Ormonde maintained his loyalty to the principles he was following; at one point it was more important to resist this group, and at another point to resist that group.
When I was reading Beckett's chapters on this period, I was dismayed by how little I understood, despite repeated re-readings. Finally I decided to keep reading without understanding, hoping that it would make sense eventually.
Two pages later, I came to this sentence, "At this point events reached a degree of confusion that defies description." I still have no clear idea of what happened from 1640 to 1660.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 16807 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Ronja
Shipmate
# 4693
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Calindreams:
If you fancy a bit of light reading about Dublin and its environs why not try 'Finnegans Wake' by James Joyce.
What a nice suggestion.
Regarding the historical discussion, I'm definitely all ears (eyes?) and taking it all aboard.
Posts: 741 | From: Up North | Registered: Jul 2003
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clarence:
(It is also one of the greatest works of fiction, ever. )
The Greatest!
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sermons are back in fashion
Posts: 16550 | From: top dead centre | Registered: Sep 2004
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