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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Flag Waving in Church
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
Here's some Coat Waving (Slashing) . I hope Eddy is tuned in - Pentecost is right around the corner. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Shirley, good Missus Murphy, shall follow me all the days of my life...
Posts: 2959 | From: Corner of "Walk" and "Don't Walk" | Registered: May 2006
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Boopy
Shipmate
# 4738
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Ladies of a certain age (who certainly ought to be old enough to know better) slow-motioning with long chiffon scarves to Pachelbel.....
Would that include the slow meaningful spiritual two-hands-together arm movement which, last time there was a liturgical dance thread on SoF, was memorably defined as 'passing the hamster'?
Posts: 1169 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I confess, I was expecting someone to snatch off a bra and start waving it.
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Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 14313 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Are you reading a different Bible or something? I doubt David got much of a chance to see the king's daughter in the altogether before the wedding. In spite of the foreskin brideprice.
[ 01. May 2010, 03:35: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 14313 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Are you reading a different Bible or something? I doubt David got much of a chance to see the king's daughter in the altogether before the wedding. In spite of the foreskin brideprice.
I believe the Rodent Snatcher might be thinking of Bathsheba (aka Mrs Uriah). She used to take her bath on the roof, and the next door neighbour with the high-rise palace got a good look at her. I think he uttered that well-known Hebrew expression "Phwoooor!"
Here is one of David's photos of the occasion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:David%26Bathsheba.jpg
Not sure where the brideprice fits in though.
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MSHB: Member of the Shire Hobbit Brigade
Posts: 1334 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Mar 2005
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Blimey!
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I used to go to a church over 10 years ago now which used to go in for flagwaving and much else of that ilk besides, but we didn't concoct any hyper-spiritualised justification for it.
Flagwaving was just another fad and ranked alongside raising hands and so forth simply as a way of expressing joy, adoration etc. It was never any big deal and it was never forced upon people ... although it could be a fairly conformist and even abusive setting at times.
So, I escaped all the 'prophetic drumming' and all that nonsense.
Mind you, if you do something long enough it becomes part of the tradition. I remember an Orthodox priest showing me the napkin they use behind the iconostasis when they're consecrating the elements for the Eucharist. It had a fancy Greek name, of course. He showed us how it was folded in particular ways at particular points in the service to commemorate Christ been laid in the tomb, Christ being raised to life etc and how, at the descent of the Holy Spirit, the priest wiggles the napkin back and forth in a wafting motion.
As he put the napkin away he said, 'Of course, in the middle east it was first used to keep off the flies ...'
Similarly, an RC priest told me that incense was first used in religious services pre-Judaism and way back in antiquity partly because people were pretty smelly in those days as they didn't have showers. So when they congregated in large numbers the smell could be quite intense. Imagine us starting a religion which featured cans of deodorant today and it ending up as some kind of air-freshener squirting cult and no ozone layer in 2,000 years time ...
As for the Holy Spirit Hokey Pokey (sic) - as Numpty observes - what a load of old hokey. I've seen some stuff in my time but that ... ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 7318 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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3rdFooter
Shipmate
# 9751
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Posted
Are you cross posting with the 'Tits' thread?
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3F - Shunter in the sidings of God's Kingdom
Posts: 552 | From: outskirts of Babylon | Registered: Jul 2005
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
LOL! Your Bible knowledge has declined since you stopped being a Protestant, Mousethief. Verily thou hast apostasised from the true Bibliolatorous faith.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 7318 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I was going to look it up but was in a hurry. The dog ate my homework. A very good friend who should have known better corrected me in the wrong direction. My former Protestant church used a wonky translation that had garbled David's wives. I read L'Engle's book and it confused me.
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Basiliscus of Comana and Rita of Cascia
-- Saints of the Day (22 May) on The Onion Dome
The Egg Princess: A New Fairy Tale
Posts: 53098 | From: ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I read L'Engle's book and it confused me.
Heh. Have a John Piper point.
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home...
Posts: 8746 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The dog ate my homework.
I once seriously used that defence. My sadistic teacher asked if he could nevertheless review what was left after the dog had chewed it to see what information he could glean.
Clearly, this left me in the impossible position of having to do the homework, then persuade the neighbour's dog to chew it (I didn't have one).
Even after wrapping a sausage in it, the dog refused to do more than lick it.
I therefore had to copy it out again, and this time chew it and shred it myself.
When I brought it in, it was perfectly obvious a no dog had been involved at any stage and so I was given a detention, during which I had to complete my homework a 3rd time, without the benefit of the previous copy to guide me.
I suspect he dined out on that in the staff room for some time.
But I digress...
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Kucha Mungu si kilemba cheupe.
Tr: Wearing a white turban is not the same as the coming of God.
(E. African Proverb)
Posts: 9755 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Sorry! Wrong wife.
Come to think of it, that's another excuse that could have legs in a different context. Much less fraught than the "it didn't mean a thing" line.
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Kucha Mungu si kilemba cheupe.
Tr: Wearing a white turban is not the same as the coming of God.
(E. African Proverb)
Posts: 9755 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Chorister
Defrocked
# 473
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Posted
I put up a cartoon on the choir noticeboard showing Church of England members dancing naked round a totem pole ('The CofE has simply gone too far'). By Evensong it had been removed.
But I saw the car park notice saying 'Drive carefully, you might hit an Anglican' was still there.
I sense a plot. ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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"Music produces a kind of pleasure which human nature cannot do without." - Confucius
Posts: 32980 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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365
Posts: 7881 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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PhilA
shipocaster
# 8792
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Posted
The main excuse now for not doing homework is to say that the printer broke or ran out of ink.
As I, and most teachers at my school, have a policy of accepting homework by email or on a memory stick/disk, and that there are lots of printers in school, it doesn't wash.
As for flag waving, only done by kids on the odd chorus every now and again.
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To err is human. To arr takes a pirate.
Posts: 3118 | From: Ł4.99 | Registered: Nov 2004
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multipara
Shipmate
# 2918
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Posted
Albertus Magnus actually threw up on #2 daughter's lab book the other night. She is unwilling to tell her lab demonstrator exactly what happened to it!
m
Posts: 4985 | From: new south wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
'Drive carefully, you might hit an Anglican'
I drive carefully all the time, but I still haven't managed to hit an Anglican. What am I doing wrong?
"Give generously, you might help someone succeed".
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MSHB: Member of the Shire Hobbit Brigade
Posts: 1334 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Mar 2005
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Pardoner
Shrive me timbers
# 15043
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Posted
I have been so tickled by this discussion that I did a bit of research on the internet (beats working!)
Go to this website:
Stout matron waving flags
scroll down and you will see flag waving in all its glory. There's an explanation of all the moves and everything!
Elsewhere on this website is a place where you can buy 'Flag Bags'. They are meant as devices to facilitate the safe storage of one's flags, but put me in mind of my late dad, the wearer of volumious underpants known in the family as 'Flag Bags'. In fact, we once made a flag pole and displayed his undies from it in the garden.
If only we'd had the internet in those days we could have used his pants as an aid to worship!
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Thin line between heaven and here (Bubbles)
Posts: 167 | Registered: Aug 2009
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
There have been times when the use of flags has resulted in a very tangible feeling of the presence of the Spirit to the joy and enrichment of all. Hallelujah !
Those bored kids in the first row certainly looked joyous and enriched by her performance*, especially the little boy who starts playing a video game.
(*I intentionally used the word 'performance.')
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 5372 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
It reminds me of baton twirling. Yeah, to do it well takes a certain amount of skill and practice, especially if done in unison, but at the end of the day, it's simply a pretty little addition to the real show (be it marching band music or church service) without any actual meaning.
My two cents.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pardoner:
Elsewhere on this website is a place where you can buy 'Flag Bags'.
You can get them through Algy, that's where we bought most of our competition flags from, anyway, might as well get the bag at the same time and save shipping.
I think I still have a flag bag in the back of my closet, it has my practice silk, my saber, and two of my rifles, one practice and one performance.
Oh, yes, for those who don't know, competitive flag waving (also known as Colorguard or Winterguard) arose out of practice for battle. All the pretty waving moves the folks are doing with the marching band? Deadly. My high school Colorguard had a higher injury per capita rate than the football team.
And no, my five concussions in high school wasn't why, nor was it considered an abnormal number of injuries for Colorguard.
So, basically, whenever I see these amateurs waving flags about in church, I think, "Wimps."
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As your Senior Warden, all I ask is unswerving loyalty and blind obedience.
--Me, to the vestry at my parish.
And then they laughed for some reason.
Shavin' my head, curin' cancer.
Posts: 10188 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Spike
Hetero-overlord
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pardoner:
I have been so tickled by this discussion that
Go to this website:
Stout matron waving flags
scroll down and you will see flag waving in all its glory. There's an explanation of all the moves and everything!
I love the description beneath the video clip
quote:
This is me using flags at my church
Just in case we didn't realise!
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We live in the end of times, as did our fathers before us. - Rev Gerald Ambulance
Posts: 10639 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
All the pretty waving moves the folks are doing with the marching band? Deadly. My high school Colorguard had a higher injury per capita rate than the football team.
Reminded me of something I saw on QI recently, the stats being contained in this rather staid report. If the flag wavers in church get on your nerves too much, you could encourage them to be more inventive in their joyous displays - maybe open a book on the order in which they demise, just to make it interesting, you know......
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.
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Posts: 963 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
All the pretty waving moves the folks are doing with the marching band? Deadly. My high school Colorguard had a higher injury per capita rate than the football team.
Reminded me of something I saw on QI recently, the stats being contained in this rather staid report. If the flag wavers in church get on your nerves too much, you could encourage them to be more inventive in their joyous displays - maybe open a book on the order in which they demise, just to make it interesting, you know......
I don't truck with the kind of exuberance in church that involves flag waving and other artsy-fartsy folderol. I'm Episcopalian.
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As your Senior Warden, all I ask is unswerving loyalty and blind obedience.
--Me, to the vestry at my parish.
And then they laughed for some reason.
Shavin' my head, curin' cancer.
Posts: 10188 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
So, I escaped all the 'prophetic drumming' and all that nonsense.
Prophetic drumming? Does it go "I prophesy someone's going to have a splitting headache in three... two... one...?"
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Website.
Ship of Fools flickr group
Posts: 2376 | From: here or there | Registered: Mar 2002
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tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
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Posted
So am I completely out of step here if I say I find it rather pretty?
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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 774 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
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Pardoner
Shrive me timbers
# 15043
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
So am I completely out of step here if I say I find it rather pretty?
If you find it rather pretty then that's good - my daughter upbraided me for being such and old cynic!
But as for 'prophetic drumming', honestly, that's the bonkers-est thing I've ever heard of!
Prophetic drumming
What I want to know is, if this guy can play his drums prophetically (and apparently on a good day someone interprets!), then how come the Lord doesn't inspire me to play my bagpipes prophetically?
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Thin line between heaven and here (Bubbles)
Posts: 167 | Registered: Aug 2009
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The only liturgical dance in the Bible was done naked. I don't think wearing clothes while liturgically dancing can be justified.
I had no idea you were a Doukhobor.
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Italian Mission to the Irish?
No, Swiss Mission to the Scots.
Posts: 6767 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Doukhobars dance naked in church?
It can't be.
Unless Doukhobars are all ugly, a church that promoted naked dancing would have a huge membership.
I've never heard of them.
What is a doukhobar?
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Ooooh, bite marks! This calls for another committee and more discernment. Let's all check our calendars.
-The Silent Acolyte
Posts: 6504 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Doukhobars dance naked in church?
It can't be.
Unless Doukhobars are all ugly, a church that promoted naked dancing would have a huge membership.
I've never heard of them.
What is a doukhobar?
Well, I had to go and look it up, and according to wiki they're a pacifist Christian sect that originated in 17th or 18th C Russia, and many of them emigrated to British Columbia. Apparently they have a tendency to hold mass protests in the nude. (That's mass as in big groups, not as in liturgy -- although they were anti-liturgy, so who knows.) This nudity proclivity was immortalized in verse, as in this number by folk artist Malvina Reynolds in the 60s: quote:
If public policy gets on your nerves
And no one pays attention to you
Throw away your dresses and your lingerie too,
And do as the Doukhobors do.
It also figures in a lyric by The Band: "He said he was a Doukhobor/But they never heard of that in Baltimore." I have *got* to dig through my pile of 60s vinyl and see if I have these.
[fixed a fellow host's code. double host points! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ]
[ 18. May 2010, 09:24: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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"Life is short, and we do not have much time to gladden the hearts of those who travel with us. So be swift to love, make haste to be kind."
Posts: 18040 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Damned edit window.
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"Life is short, and we do not have much time to gladden the hearts of those who travel with us. So be swift to love, make haste to be kind."
Posts: 18040 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
[...] Reminded me of something I saw on QI recently, the stats being contained in this rather staid report. If the flag wavers in church get on your nerves too much, you could encourage them to be more inventive in their joyous displays - maybe open a book on the order in which they demise, just to make it interesting, you know......
And it's not just dangerous for those who do it. It's dangerous for everyone. If she gets dropped, you can die:
quote:
"If she gets dropped or gets in the wrong position and lands on her head or neck, you can die or become paralyzed. [...]" (From above link)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 5687 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
Damned edit window.
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 5687 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Doukhobars dance naked in church?
It can't be.
Unless Doukhobars are all ugly, a church that promoted naked dancing would have a huge membership.
I've never heard of them.
What is a doukhobar?
Well, I had to go and look it up, and according to wiki they're a pacifist Christian sect that originated in 17th or 18th C Russia, and many of them emigrated to British Columbia. Apparently they have a tendency to hold mass protests in the nude. (That's mass as in big groups, not as in liturgy -- although they were anti-liturgy, so who knows.) This nudity proclivity was immortalized in verse, as in this number by folk artist Malvina Reynolds in the 60s: quote:
If public policy gets on your nerves
And no one pays attention to you
Throw away your dresses and your lingerie too,
And do as the Doukhobors do.
It also figures in a lyric by The Band: "He said he was a Doukhobor/But they never heard of that in Baltimore." I have *got* to dig through my pile of 60s vinyl and see if I have these.
There is also a documentary made before I was born about the Doukhobors.
It was narrated by George Woodcock.
So...apparently there are some attractive ones after all. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
[fixed a fuckwit's code. not so many host points ![[Frown]](frown.gif) ]
[ 18. May 2010, 09:25: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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Ooooh, bite marks! This calls for another committee and more discernment. Let's all check our calendars.
-The Silent Acolyte
Posts: 6504 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pardoner:
then how come the Lord doesn't inspire me to play my bagpipes prophetically?
I believe that would be inspiration from a different entity. One who resides on a lower plane.
[ 18. May 2010, 04:20: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine.
Despair.com
Posts: 5970 | Registered: Dec 2008
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
So am I completely out of step here if I say I find it rather pretty?
They have poor form and would be laughed off any competition stage.
But I guess those who can, do, and those who can't, call it a prophetic ministry.
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As your Senior Warden, all I ask is unswerving loyalty and blind obedience.
--Me, to the vestry at my parish.
And then they laughed for some reason.
Shavin' my head, curin' cancer.
Posts: 10188 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pardoner:
Go to this website:
Stout matron waving flags
scroll down and you will see flag waving in all its glory. There's an explanation of all the moves and everything!
The woman in that site is as utterly self-centered and exhibitionist as any I've seen. If I was in a service where she was monopolising the whole damn worship like that I'd be sorely tempted to break both the flags over my knee and tell her to get over herself and sit the fuck down.
Some people really do think it's all about them.
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Does the noise in my head bother you?
Posts: 24655 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
I'm not a particular fan of flag-waving in church, but I do find it slightly more 'normal', or at least, comprehensible than the link in this OP.
Posts: 9291 | From: The Munster Wilderness | Registered: Jul 2002
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multipara
Shipmate
# 2918
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Posted
"Matron"?
I think not, she is clad in virginal white.
Marvin, choose your words more carefully.
m
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quod scripsi, scripsi
Posts: 4985 | From: new south wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
The woman in that site is as utterly self-centered and exhibitionist as any I've seen.
At least we know who to blame: none other than David Soul...
quote:
From the Friends and Supporters tribute page
David Soul; your unconditional, loving friendship helped me to emerge from my cocoon of shyness.
Gee, thanks Hutch!
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1324 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by multipara:
"Matron"?
I think not, she is clad in virginal white.
Marvin, choose your words more carefully.
Are you labouring under the misapprehension that I was the one who said "matronly", or do you think there was something else I said that was carelessly phrased?
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Does the noise in my head bother you?
Posts: 24655 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
White is the liturgical color of joy, doesn't mean virgin.
Posts: 4255 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
Except, Belle, when it, you know, DOES mean chastity and virginity. Like in iconography.
Although in China white means death. After watching that little stunt act that in no way went with the music, I died a little inside.
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As your Senior Warden, all I ask is unswerving loyalty and blind obedience.
--Me, to the vestry at my parish.
And then they laughed for some reason.
Shavin' my head, curin' cancer.
Posts: 10188 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Strange:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
The woman in that site is as utterly self-centered and exhibitionist as any I've seen.
At least we know who to blame: none other than David Soul...
quote:
From the Friends and Supporters tribute page
David Soul; your unconditional, loving friendship helped me to emerge from my cocoon of shyness.
Gee, thanks Hutch!
Reminds me of the Little Britain sketch.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 13116 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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