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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Depression is not a real mental illness, but a manifestation of the sin of pride.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
What a colossal cunt.
No. He lacks depth and warmth.
In the 'Team America: World Police' scheme of things he's clearly an asshole.
Yeah, but "colossal asshole" doesn't get across the strength of feeling in quite the same way.
But cunts are attractive to (most) men - this guy was ugly.
Call him a prick, perhaps, then again......
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
Also, his voice reminds me somewhat of Stanley Unwin, which decreases even further any possible seriousness with which I might take his words, inasmuch as the content is garbage (which is very similar aurally to garbled).
Me too!
I consideryfollolop that depressy-how and many other formly-most of the mentalodes are very delibermake by that person and trickly-how! Deep not joy!
On the other handy, from Marvin keyboard transmitty to the eardroves of God:
What a colossal cunt.
Oh Yes.
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I think this chap is obviously seriously mentally ill. That is the only excuse I can think of for such outrageous claims.
Don't be a dickhead too. Mental illness is a serious problem, and can be treated, often, but should invoke sympathy, support and help.
This guy is a foetid piece of dog-turd fungus. Not crazy, just unbelievably stupid. Mindless stupidity, when it is paraded to the public like this does not deserve sympathy, it deserves a good kicking.
One look at his web site, which is mind-numbingly bad, tells me that a village is missing its idiot. Sadly, the fuck-witted, scum-turds these days can get on the net. Sometimes I think we should make it slightly harder, so that people like this fucking asshole couldn't get on.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
[bad code. go to your room]
Unnecessary tinyurls are dangerous and suck foetid pond water.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
He'd be dangerous if it was possible to take him seriously. Though I imagine if you are feeling at a low ebb, listening to that sort of crap is not going to be helpful.
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
The first problem is that some people - especially of a more conservative evangelical persuasion - manage to take the most fuck-witted diddle-crap seriously. However completely unacceptable it is to a normal, rational person.
The second one is that, as you allude to, some people with depression will accept this as an indication that they are to blame. And the results of blaming people for their own depression are often very bad.
Incidentally, I am an evangelical christian, who suffers from depression. It is fucking awful without wank-stains like this making me feel worse.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
In a depressed state you are vulnerable and sometimes self loathing and so more likely to take this tripe to heart. My mother suffered terribly from depression and felt such huge guilt and pain over her loss of faith and people like this preyed on her brokeness like vultures. They told her that relying on medication was a refusal to take up her cross. She died completely broken at 52 and I guarentee you these people contributed.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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WhateverTheySay
Shipmate
# 16598
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Posted
I have responded fully in Purg, but I want to add myself to the people angry at the utter BS that this idiot is spewing. It annoys me even more that this guy is a counsellor, with the complete lack of empathy he seems to be displaying. I'm only glad that I was never one of his clients.
I bet he would soon change his views if he ever had a depression episode.
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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I'm not lost, I just don't know where I am going
Posts: 872 | From: Lost in Space, without a map | Registered: Aug 2011
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
I have figured out why he is so public.
If he actually believes what he says, his only response to people seeking help from him must be "Go to Church and get right with God, then you will be better." Under the circumstances, him charging anyone for any amount of time beyond what it takes to say that would be theft. You can't ethically charge for services that aren't necessary after all.
So, he has to make the rest of his money by some other means; like selling books and lecture appearances.
When all that runs out he will get his MD and tell people that their: cancer; psoriasis; diabetes; dementia, etc. is their own fault and that they need to "Go to Church and get right with God, then you will be better."
This will mean him embarking on a new series of books and lectures to regain lost income.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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HughWillRidmee
Shipmate
# 15614
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Posted
"My name is Malcolm Bowden, I’m a committed evangelical Christian" - the absence of caring people in white coats suggests this is not true - but I reckon the world would be a safer place if it were.
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The danger to society is not merely that it should believe wrong things.. but that it should become credulous, and lose the habit of testing things and inquiring into them...
W. K. Clifford, "The Ethics of Belief" (1877)
Posts: 894 | From: Middle England | Registered: Apr 2010
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848
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Posted
quote:
True Christians, if they accept the Bible as being the Word of God, they will read in there many encouragements to live the full outgoing and loving Christian life. And a Christian, a TRUE Christian, should not ever be depressed, because he should be living his life for others, and he should be living his life for others, should have that peace of heart with God, when he should be living his life for others, knows that God has promised him a wonderful future in heaven with him.
Many depressed people turn in on themselves and feel that people are against them, the world’s not going right, they don’t appreciate how hard they’re working, they’re terribly proud of their situation, and try to be perfect in order to impress people, and people aren’t ultimately impressed, and when they suddenly deflate themselves, they fall right back into a pit of depression.
Man is basically so proud and so self-centred, he refuses to come to God in total humility. But that is ultimately what God is seeking from all of us, and we reject His requirements at our peril."
Well thank the LORD then! He excludes women from his analysis.
One of the few times feminists can be thankful for the twits who still insist on non-inclusive language...
[ 27. April 2012, 06:01: Message edited by: Nunc Dimittis ]
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
His response to my e-mail.
Dear Matt,
Your criticism is only one of over 100 that were made on the broadcast.
In view of this I am attaching my response.
Please reply if you wish.
Best wishes,
Malcolm Bowden.
4THOUGHT - CHANNEL 4 - WEDNESDAY 25 APRIL 2012 - 7.55PM - DEPRESSION.
MY COMMENTS ON CRITICISMS RECEIVED.
I was interviewed by channel 4 on 15 March 2012 on depression. The whole filming took over 45minutes but was edited down to 1min 45 secs!
I was fully prepared for the editing to present only the most negative points I made, which in a way was so, but I would say that overall it was a fair presentation of my views as I am well aware that they are greatly resented by most people who have never heard my reasons for holding these views. It is impossible for anyone to present their views AND then give the evidence of why they hold them in the allowed time of 1m 45s! I hope to correct by presenting some of this evidence in this article.
1. WEBSITE. I was not allowed to give any publicity to my website or book which contain much that has changed many people's lives.
In view of this, I would ask critics to visit my website where I have a number of letters/emails received from people I have helped particularly with their depression. The direct link to the page is -
www.mbowden.info/bibcoun1.htm. At the start are two articles - comments, and how I stumbled upon True Biblical Counselling.
2. CHRISTIAN SUPPORT. To see the whole series, go to www.4thought.tv When I looked there late on Wednesday evening, there were some 90+ vitriolic comments on the transmission, plus further comments on these comments which I did not count. Total about 150 I would guess. Only one was fairly sympathetic. A number said they were Christians and were disgusted that I should call myself a "committed evangelical Christian", thus bringing disrepute upon our faith. I am certainly made to appear as the only Christian who holds to such extreme views.
So on this subject let me give a few quotations.
Would a few quotes from the great Dr. Martin-Lloyd Jones on depression persuade many evangelical Christians? Not to those whose mind is made up already! Remember he was a MEDICAL doctor nearing the highest levels in the medical world, which he gave up for the ministry. These are taken from his "Spiritual Depression" and I copy what I have said on my website.
......................................
"Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones on depression
When I started to read his book "Spritual Depression", as he was a highly regarded medical man, I fully expected him to take the conventional line of drugs etc. Much to my surprise, his views were in exact accordance with ours! I quote some of his statements;
"..I say that this person is still morbidly and sinfully preoccupied with self. I said just now that we have to be brutal with this condition. [emphasis MB] And it has to be said that the real trouble with these people is still 'self'... They appear very humble and full of contrition, but it is mock modesty, it is a self-concern... Forget yourself, leave the judgement to Him; get on with the work." [p.87]
"In a sense, the depressed Christian is a contradiction in terms, and he is a very poor recommendation for the gospel." [p.11] "..and saying: I am in great difficulty - it probably means that we are all the time centred upon ourselves. That is introspection, and in turn it leads to the condition known as morbidity." [p17].
One very damning comment was "Psychology, I believe, is one of the most subtle dangers in connection with the Christian belief.... we do not preach psychology, we preach the Christian faith." [p.265]
Throughout the book, he says exactly the same that we are proposing - that it is self-centred and self-pitying thinking that is the cause of depression.
....................................
The Apostle Paul went through terrible hardships but not once was he ever depressed. Indeed he said Christians should "Rejoice; again I say rejoice" and "Think more of others than yourself". Not once did he ever succumb to depression but claimed that the Christian faith was "..joy unspeakable and full of glory."
Jay Adams found he had not been trained to deal with counselling in his theological college, so he investigated the subject in depth, writing some 40 books and pamphlets on counselling. He followed O. Hobart Mowrer as he went round psychiatric hospitals curing schizophrenics simply by breaking past their defence strategies to get to the guilt that they had been hiding deep inside them. They acted in a bizarre and aggressive way simply to prevent people from enquiring too deeply and discovering their guilty secrets. Adams wrote much on depression. He pointed to their self-absorbtion, but did not pinpoint that basically they were acting self-centredly.
3. SECULAR SUPPORT.
The Pheonix Conference. Held in 1975, this huge conference had all the big names in psychotherapy. "Three out of the four members of the prestigious panel on schizophrenia declared that the disease [?] was non-existant." R.D. Laing insisted that schizophrenia "did not exist until the word was invented.""
Such views from such prestigious names has never reached the mainstream psychiatric/psychological professions - their income is too closely connected to maintaining this facade.
Thomas Szas, a member of the schizophrenia panel, has written a book called The Myth of Mental Illness.
On this subject of the classification of what constitutes a "mental illness", the now huge Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) lists all the various mental illnesses. Inclusion of an "illness" requires only a show of hands by a gathering of psychiatrists of the symptoms of the illness. If a person has a certain number of the symptoms on the list, then they are classified as having that particular "mental illness". THERE IS NOT A SCRAP OF SCIENTIFIC BASIS TO THE WHOLE OF THE PSY PROFESSIONS - (psychiatrists and psychologists).
Glasser, Harrington and Mainord
Glasser, in his book Reality Therapy, recounts how these three psychologists had huge success rates (80-100% cures with very few relapsing) with criminal girls, schizophrenics and men in a general psychiatric hospital simply by training them to take responsibility for their actions. So you see schizophrenia CAN be cured, but their method is not acceptable in today's "politically correct" culture. I quote from this book at length in our book Breakdowns are good for you [BAGFY].
4. CASES OF DEPRESSION
I have examined a number of cases - people who have come for help, or simply read our book, or have written (or been written about) in magazine articles. Given enough "background" information of their past life, I have found every time that they have had a pattern in their attitude to life of wanting praise, admiration, ambition, friendship etc. without really giving themselves to others in simple love towards them without seeking any return. They were consistently wanting praise but they never really "gave of themselves". If they DID do "good works", there was always an underlying desire to "buy" people's affection, which was often seen for what it was - so they never received a truly affectionate response to the depth that they were wanting. People are very sensitive to anyone who does NOT "give themselves" in open friendship; the signals that they send you on such occassions are extremely subtle and difficutl to define, but they are easily sensed by most people. When they find that they do not get the full response that they are seeking, we have the beginning of that inward collapse that heralds depression.
What they should do is GIVE of themselves in a quiet loving way and not expecting (seeking?) any responding return of affection. That will come when they are recognised as being truly "open hearted and genuine" people with a REAL interest in the welfare of other people, with no facades or barriers they hide behind.
In this short paper I feel I must be blunt. Life is full of problems, calamities and catastrophies that come upon us all. What many have done is to mentally collapse at the first hurdle of opposition, and frankly, what has really happened is that they have failed to face up to them in a mature way - they have never grown up to take the rough and tumble of the world in a mature (Christian?) way.
5. PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
The most common accusation by my critics is that "I have obviously never experienced depression otherwise I would be more sympathetic to this terrible illness". The implication is that only sufferers from depression should counsel other sufferers; a dubious proposition indeed. What is invariably offered is what I call "tea and sympathy" and "a shoulder to cry on". They go away happy, and both counsellor and counsellee are both satisfied. Unfortunately, this rarely cures their problem at depth, and they are likely to return to their former state when stress and pressure arise again. as it is bound to come in time.
What is badly needed is for the real cause of their problem to be revealed to them - gently but firmly. For their testimony of what happens to them when they DO respond to this approach I repeat that the reader should go to www.mbowden.info/bibcoun1.htm
Many admit that they are now more stable, at peace with themselves, no longer perfectionists to prevent criticisms, not so ambitious etc. Some in fact say they are glad they went through depression because it taught them what the real priorities in life are.
On this, I would mention that at one time in my life, when I was far from being mature and long before I became a Christian, I went through an extremely stressfull and testing three months. When it was over, I was lying in my bed and all the pent up fear and anxiety that I had supressed suddenly bubbled to the surface and I began to be so stressed that the room began to "swim" around me and I realised that I was on the point of having a "mental breakdown." I have a very clear memory of saying to myself "You have only one life to live. Either you face up to life and overcome your fears or you will buckle under and be a mental wreck for the rest of your life." This started me on the right path although I struggled with it for many years, but I was very determined to enjoy my life.
On another occasion, I gave my first public lecture against evolution with no other person's support. The night before I gave the lecture I was so fearful that I literally shook with fear in my bed. However, I was so determined to publicise the truth about the falseness of evolution that I forced myself to give the talk. The result was that I have never had any fear of public speaking since. It is this determination NOT to be limited by my inadequacies that has paid a huge dividend over the years of increased confidence and joy in serving God in any way He makes available to me. I have truly had a very stressfree and happy life.
Critics portray me as a hard-hearted man who cannot possibly be a Christian. In response, I can assure them that I am greatly loved by all 15 of my immediate family - (ask them if you know one of them!). In addition, every Christmas I circulate about 120 copies of 4 sides of A4 jokes that I have collected in the previous year. Recipients always look forward to receiving them. [See them at www.mbowden.info/Xmasjokes.htm ]
I merely mention this to show that I am far from being a kill-joy. It is the truth of a situation that I am always seeking, not the conventional propaganda that is consistently being pumped out by the mass media and by many churches that is absorbed by the general public. It is this that puts me at variance with the vast majority of people who accept the conventional wisdom.
FINALLY - I fully expected a huge amount of criticism - some of it from other Christians. I would repeat that many have been grateful for the way in which I have opened their eyes to what they are doing to themselves. Jay Adams has said "It is NOT kind to empathise with people without pointing out the real root of their problem".
I find that the truth of any situation is always rejected if it conflicts with a person's deeply held views that they have cherished for a lifetime. The process of admitting to oneself that you have been wrong on any important subject is too stressful and humiliating to the inner pride. So such evidence is firmly rejected without being prepared to consider carefully whether it is true or false.
Unfortunately, this also applies to many Christians when faced with contrary views.
I could present much more but will leave it there.
Malcolm Bowden.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Cryptic
Shipmate
# 16917
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Posted
quote:
FINALLY - I fully expected a huge amount of criticism - some of it from other Christians.
Not wrong there.
Despite this self-justification he's still a deadshit.
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Illegitimi non carborundum
Posts: 225 | From: Sydney | Registered: Feb 2012
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
There are some times when I really hate the fact that Hosts have to read every word posted on their board.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
And on the subject of Hosting:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
[bad code. go to your room]
Unnecessary tinyurls are dangerous and suck foetid pond water.
It was necessary. The original url wasn't being recognised by the Ship's UBB code.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Tyler Durden
Shipmate
# 2996
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Posted
Haven't read the whole thread but just read most of his email defending himself... starting to wonder if he is some sort of performance artist who has created this character as a spoof. Can it be real? If it is, someone shoot put a bullet through the back of his head asap
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Have you ever noticed that anyone driving slower than you is a moron, while anyone driving faster is a maniac? Jerry Seinfeld
Posts: 509 | From: Kent | Registered: Jul 2002
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
One or two charming souls have gently suggested that I don't need medication to control my occasional epileptic fits. Listen, I tell them: if I discontinue my meds, I have fits.
Oh Yeah. Yeah. Have you also had it gently suggested to you that your fits are the result of demonic activity? I have. By my mother. Who is a Christian Counsellor.
Which suggests that the following statement...
quote:
Originally posted by Quetzalcotal:
One positive aspect of it is that no professional body, at least in the UK, would countenance this kind of pseudo-psychological talk. It is obviously out of the mouth of someone untrained.
...is a bit optimistic. Although, of course, I DON't live in the UK, but my mother is a member of one of the two professional oversight bodies here. As was the counsellor who recently made reference to chakra lines when talking to me... - to be fair, she did also have some fairly useful stuff to say, but you do have to wonder if these 'professional bodies' are really in the nature of the 'send $250 for your degree today' universities. Do they in fact DO anything, or do they rubber-stamp anyone who has managed to get their fist around a diploma and is prepared to pay the fee, without ...ummm... checking if they are sane?
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
quote:
Originally written by Malcolm Bowden:
Critics portray me as a hard-hearted man who cannot possibly be a Christian. In response, I can assure them that I am greatly loved by all 15 of my immediate family - (ask them if you know one of them!).
Also sprach Fred Phelps.
quote:
Originally written by Malcolm Bowden:
In addition, every Christmas I circulate about 120 copies of 4 sides of A4 jokes that I have collected in the previous year. Recipients always look forward to receiving them.
The man is an imbecile to think this is relevant.
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
One or two charming souls have gently suggested that I don't need medication to control my occasional epileptic fits. Listen, I tell them: if I discontinue my meds, I have fits.
Oh Yeah. Yeah. Have you also had it gently suggested to you that your fits are the result of demonic activity? I have. By my mother. Who is a Christian Counsellor.
Is she sure it isn't because of a Masonic influence in your life from your paternal great-great-grandfather? Unbroken soul ties are, as any fule no, the cause of anything and everything bad in your life.
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
Oh - and seeing as this is hell, Mr. Bowden can take his 'sin of pride' and shove it a good long way up his ass. I would say that my problem, insofar as I am capable of diagnosing myself, is a chronic lack of pride - an inability to understand, accept, or feel that anything I do, produce, or am, is in any way good or worthwhile or meaningful or anything other than hypocritical insincere fake cheating shite. Which I suppose looks like self-pity to someone like this chap who has all the answers direct from the big [happy] guy in the sky...
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Strange:
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
One or two charming souls have gently suggested that I don't need medication to control my occasional epileptic fits. Listen, I tell them: if I discontinue my meds, I have fits.
Oh Yeah. Yeah. Have you also had it gently suggested to you that your fits are the result of demonic activity? I have. By my mother. Who is a Christian Counsellor.
Is she sure it isn't because of a Masonic influence in your life from your paternal great-great-grandfather? Unbroken soul ties are, as any fule no, the cause of anything and everything bad in your life.
Don't think we've had any Masons, but there were a bucketload of Roman Catholics in there until the generation before me saw the evangelical light - perhaps that's the problem...
[ 27. April 2012, 09:08: Message edited by: anoesis ]
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Pants
Emergency underwear
# 999
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
...and how I stumbled upon True Biblical Counselling.
Oh how I'd love some of that.
quote:
"In a sense, the depressed Christian is a contradiction in terms, and he is a very poor recommendation for the gospel."
So glad I don't claim to be a Christian.
quote:
Glasser, in his book Reality Therapy, recounts how these three psychologists had huge success rates (80-100% cures with very few relapsing) with criminal girls, schizophrenics and men in a general psychiatric hospital simply by training them to take responsibility for their actions.
I feel so much better for knowing it's all my own fault.
quote:
They were consistently wanting praise but they never really "gave of themselves". If they DID do "good works", there was always an underlying desire to "buy" people's affection, which was often seen for what it was - so they never received a truly affectionate response to the depth that they were wanting....
What they should do is GIVE of themselves in a quiet loving way and not expecting (seeking?) any responding return of affection. That will come when they are recognised as being truly "open hearted and genuine" people with a REAL interest in the welfare of other people, with no facades or barriers they hide behind.
I'd like to give you all myself for you to do as you please with.
quote:
"You have only one life to live. Either you face up to life and overcome your fears or you will buckle under and be a mental wreck for the rest of your life."
Ah, that's better, I feel cured.
quote:
In response, I can assure them that I am greatly loved by all 15 of my immediate family - (ask them if you know one of them!).
Splendid. I am so very pleased for you. That's is a fairly normal occurrence as people close to you usually love you despite your shittiness.
quote:
The process of admitting to oneself that you have been wrong on any important subject is too stressful and humiliating to the inner pride. So such evidence is firmly rejected without being prepared to consider carefully whether it is true or false.
I am wrong.
There... all better now. What an amazing person he is.
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♣ Many big thank yous to those who sponsored us. ♣
I use £6m of military hardware to find hidden Tupperware in the woods.
Posts: 15217 | From: A grown up house | Registered: May 2003
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Re: Mr Bowden ... isn't it wonderful when someone's description of themself confirms the opinion you've already formed of them?
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Strange:
Is she sure it isn't because of a Masonic influence in your life from your paternal great-great-grandfather? Unbroken soul ties are, as any fule no, the cause of anything and everything bad in your life.
Don't think we've had any Masons, but there were a bucketload of Roman Catholics in there until the generation before me saw the evangelical light - perhaps that's the problem...
Yes, yes and yes. We have some busy bodies who are well into Cafflicks (check, baptised RC), the Masons (close, Dad was a member of the Buffs), demonism (probably, went to a few gigs where a lot was smoked that wasn't tobacco) and they have put their noses in exactly once. Apart from skipping my meds the only thing that brings on fits is very serious drinking + dehydration.
[ 27. April 2012, 11:27: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
Dear sweet baby Jesus cuddled up in the Christmas crib, if that copypasta 'response' of his ain't the textbook definition of teal deer! His douchecanoe has a draft so deep he's got to be dead center over the Marianas Trench to float!
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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WhateverTheySay
Shipmate
# 16598
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot, quoting Malcolm Bowden
Glasser, Harrington and Mainord
Glasser, in his book Reality Therapy, recounts how these three psychologists had huge success rates (80-100% cures with very few relapsing) with criminal girls, schizophrenics and men in a general psychiatric hospital simply by training them to take responsibility for their actions. So you see schizophrenia CAN be cured, but their method is not acceptable in today's "politically correct" culture. I quote from this book at length in our book Breakdowns are good for you [BAGFY].
WTF?
This statement really offends me.
I wish it were that simple. I have a psychotic disorder and also I feel very strongly that I need to take full responsibility for my actions, which I make sure I do. Yet I am not cured. I take medication every day, but still experience a return of some symptoms when I don't sleep or get too stressed.
With the right treatment, schizophrenia can go into remission even for a number of years. But like any chronic medical condition, it is not cured. There is always a risk that symptoms can return in situations such as stress, coming off meds, meds no longer working, and possibly other triggers depending on the individual.
But I have never heard that something like 'taking responsibility for our actions' being a cure for anything. It certainly hasn't cured me.
Seriously, Malcolm Bowden needs to actually educate himself before spewing this utter bullshit.
(edited because there was a weird gap in the quote that didn't look right - 'preview post is my friend')
[ 27. April 2012, 19:40: Message edited by: WhateverTheySay ]
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I'm not lost, I just don't know where I am going
Posts: 872 | From: Lost in Space, without a map | Registered: Aug 2011
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
It was necessary. The original url wasn't being recognised by the Ship's UBB code.
Quite right. Please accept my apologies.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Sine Nomine
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 66
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhateverTheySay:
This statement really offends me.
If you were willing to take responsibility for your actions you would say "I am allowing myself to be really offended by this statement."
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Precious, Precious, Sweet, Sweet Daddy...
Posts: 16639 | From: lat. 36.24/lon. 86.84 | Registered: Dec 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhateverTheySay:
But I have never heard that something like 'taking responsibility for our actions' being a cure for anything. It certainly hasn't cured me.
Of course it hasn't. I've noticed that arthritis or MS or other conditions and illnesses never get targetted this way.
It is interesting and informative to hear this evil madman's ravings if you use something like arthritis or cancer to replace every reference to depression. It shows really how vacuous his thoughts are. It does seem to be a form of evil.
The only thing responsibility contributes is appropriate self care to cope and manage the illness as best as can, as you say manage stress and sleep, follow medical treatment etc.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Oh no, yet another creationist engineer. What is it about engineering that produces people like this? Apologies to all engineers present, I am sure you are not like this.
A civil and structural eng, moreover. I reckon he spent too long on site without a hard hat. Now he needs a tinfoil one.
Oh good Lord. Harold Camping is a CE.* Bless their hearts, some are just not smart enough to realize that expertise in one area does not imply expertise in a completely different one. (Lots of CEs in my immediate family, who are the "smart" ones.) So I'll recycle something I was saying during the RAPTURE NOW!! fiasco:
If this guy built bridges like he [does Biblical math/practices psychotherapy], it would fall down and people would die.
Unfortunately with the kind of advice this guy is handing out, it looks like people will die anyway ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
* This may sound weird, but engineering is still considered "sound" in local con evo circles as a career choice, as most disciplines do not require biology classes (and exposure to scary evolutionary theories ![[Biased]](wink.gif) ).
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
All the willpower in the world hasn't even succeeded in getting my pigeon-toed left foot to turn out. Fat chance it's gonna cure my bipolar depression.
I'll get right on that, though - just as soon as I finish willing my way to skin clear of eczema, which is on my agenda immediately after curing my asthma by simply willing to breathe. (I mean, it's just breathing, right? The most natural thing! If only I were a more virtuous person.)
Now, if Mr. Bowden would like to regain normal observational skills, he might try exercising a little humility.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
quote:
Originally posted by WhateverTheySay:
This statement really offends me.
If you were willing to take responsibility for your actions you would say "I am allowing myself to be really offended by this statement."
I would take full responsibility for the action of kicking the shit out of you for saying that.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Well, it's all our own fault for not listening to all that well-meaning advice. Over the years most people on this thread will have been advised to snap out of it, stand up straight (because posture is very important), practise smiling, eat lots of bananas, and go for long walks.
So the next time you see anyone beaming as they set proudly off on a 26 mile hike, rucksack full of bananas, you can bet they're probably very depressed and just struggling to hide it.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Sine Nomine
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 66
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
quote:
Originally posted by WhateverTheySay:
This statement really offends me.
If you were willing to take responsibility for your actions you would say "I am allowing myself to be really offended by this statement."
I would take full responsibility for the action of kicking the shit out of you for saying that.
So you don't have control over your reactions? That seems like a crappy way to live. Gives other people a lot of power over you too.
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Precious, Precious, Sweet, Sweet Daddy...
Posts: 16639 | From: lat. 36.24/lon. 86.84 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
quote:
Originally posted by WhateverTheySay:
This statement really offends me.
If you were willing to take responsibility for your actions you would say "I am allowing myself to be really offended by this statement."
I would take full responsibility for the action of kicking the shit out of you for saying that.
So you don't have control over your reactions? That seems like a crappy way to live. Gives other people a lot of power over you too.
I have full control over my reactions. Don't worry about that sweety pie.
I would make the deliberate and calculated decision to kick the shit out of you.
Only, I should point out, if I thought you were actually being serious.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
I find myself wondering if violent sociopathy is a real mental illness or a choice.
But of course you aren't serious either, but making the threat still comes across as a little badly adjusted to me.
(Perhaps you'd kick the shit out of me for saying that as well).
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
I find myself wondering if violent sociopathy is a real mental illness or a choice.
But of course you aren't serious either, but making the threat still comes across as a little badly adjusted to me.
(Perhaps you'd kick the shit out of me for saying that as well).
I assume Sine was, as usual, not being serious, so I am continuing to play the game with him.
It is more fun than saying anything more about Malcolm "foetid dog-shit for brains" Bowden.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Sine Nomine
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 66
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I assume Sine was, as usual, not being serious,
I habitually use a light tone. That doesn't mean I'm not serious.
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Precious, Precious, Sweet, Sweet Daddy...
Posts: 16639 | From: lat. 36.24/lon. 86.84 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Well, it's all our own fault for not listening to all that well-meaning advice. Over the years most people on this thread will have been advised to snap out of it, stand up straight (because posture is very important), practise smiling, eat lots of bananas, and go for long walks.
So the next time you see anyone beaming as they set proudly off on a 26 mile hike, rucksack full of bananas, you can bet they're probably very depressed and just struggling to hide it.
I think you are on to something, Ariel. Really, I do.
This morning, I decided to go for a long bike ride, to deal with my guilt feelings after eating an entire carrot cake.
My front bike tire was flat, even though the bike worked fine yesterday.
I tried to inflate the inner tube. It exploded in my face.
I then borrowed my wife's bicycle, and went for a 20K ride.
When I was almost home, the cutest little chipmunk ran in between my front and back tires, and I squished it dead.
Boy, was that depressing! But at least I have a better chance than the chipmunk, when it comes to snapping out of it.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
As soon as he says, 'a true Christian should never be depressed', you know he's a quack, as no genuine counsellor or psychotherapist would use the 'should' word in that way.
Well, the statement would be true -- if depression were caused by being ungrateful to God. If all you had to do to dismiss clinical depression was count your blessings.
I assume the guy referred to in the OP doesn't take any medicines or go for any physical exams or therapies, then?
("What do you mean, my irritable bowel syndrome is caused by sealing up my bowels of mercies? All I've got to do to cure it is be merciful? What a quack! Give me some pills before I sue you!")
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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
(Interest declared - on 150mg venlafaxine per day.)
I'll second that.
225 mg venlafaxine. Much better now. I used to crash emotionally regularly once a month.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
I've noticed that arthritis or MS or other conditions and illnesses never get targetted this way.
a side note to the rest of the discussion, but MS does get some of this. The "mind over matter" camp has a strong following, though thankfully small. I have even had a "specialist" doctor tell me that the "cure" for my MS is to get rid of all stress in my life, force myself to "push through" the symptoms, and the disease will disappear.
thankfully, these people are not taken seriously by most. as, hopefully, this jackass talking out of his ass about depression will also not be taken seriously.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Niteowl
Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
I've noticed that arthritis or MS or other conditions and illnesses never get targetted this way.
a side note to the rest of the discussion, but MS does get some of this. The "mind over matter" camp has a strong following, though thankfully small. I have even had a "specialist" doctor tell me that the "cure" for my MS is to get rid of all stress in my life, force myself to "push through" the symptoms, and the disease will disappear.
thankfully, these people are not taken seriously by most. as, hopefully, this jackass talking out of his ass about depression will also not be taken seriously.
Believe it or not, even patients with spinal cord damage leading to paralysis are told that if they really wanted to, they could walk. I've been told that several times. I refer to it as the secular version of "name it and claim it" Word of Faith ministries. It's either supreme arrogance or wishful thinking on the part of those who aren't afflicted with illnesses or injuries in case they some day are afflicted.
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"love all, trust few, do wrong to no one"
Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
People are afraid of randomness, so they need to believe that there's a Reason (tm) for problems--thinking that, if they aren't affected by that Reason, they're safe.
So it’s something like this:
{Will/choice of God/dess/Universe/victim} and/or {Forbidden behavior/thoughts} and/or {Evil} = Problem.
This gives people a sense that Everything Is Under Control. Maybe not the Pan-Glossian “best of all possible worlds”, but not wildly random, either.
It’s applied to any kind of bad thing. I’ve had it applied to my various health problems by medical professionals, friends, etc.. It’s angering and frustrating—and, in the case of medical folks, drastically delays diagnosis and treatment. Years ago, the US Centers for Disease Control misused the money set aside for CFIDS research. Fortunately, Congress called them on the carpet, and things changed. But how much suffering might have been avoided if the CDC hadn’t wasted time??
Some resources:
--The Listening to CFIDS site has accounts by people with CFIDS/CFS/ME. “Hysterical??” (by Anonymous) is particularly apt.
-- InvisibleDisabilities.org has lots of good info.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
Someone on Facebook recently sent me the definition of "Ignoranus": Someone who is both ignorant and an asshole. I would put this fellow and his pious-to-puke pseudo-professional associates in that category.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
[QB] So says Malcolm Bowden
Never heard of him. Given how much better I'm doing with Citalopram in the morning and Lorazepam at night I'd say he's wrong unless there are ingredients in those two drugs known to wash away sin.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Well, it's all our own fault for not listening to all that well-meaning advice. Over the years most people on this thread will have been advised to snap out of it, stand up straight (because posture is very important), practise smiling, eat lots of bananas, and go for long walks.
So the next time you see anyone beaming as they set proudly off on a 26 mile hike, rucksack full of bananas, you can bet they're probably very depressed and just struggling to hide it.
I was told to eat *fewer* bananas. Is that why I'm still depressed? ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
Although, of course, I DON't live in the UK, but my mother is a member of one of the two professional oversight bodies here. As was the counsellor who recently made reference to chakra lines when talking to me... - to be fair, she did also have some fairly useful stuff to say, but you do have to wonder if these 'professional bodies' are really in the nature of the 'send $250 for your degree today' universities. Do they in fact DO anything, or do they rubber-stamp anyone who has managed to get their fist around a diploma and is prepared to pay the fee, without ...ummm... checking if they are sane?
I have a bit of peripheral experience of what's required by the two main psychotherapy organisations in the UK (I did some training once that could have led on to meeting their requirements eventually) and my opinion is that over here, you're not going to get your name on the register without having acquired both an in-depth knowledge and a fair bit of practical experience in whichever modality you're looking at. So that rules out the cheque-for-qualification nutters but it doesn't guarantee that what the therapist has been taught is solid stuff.
The problem is that (in my humble opinion, of course and I know we have actually psychologists and psychotherapists on the Ship - I'm open to correction) psychotherapy is, to the extent that it's a science at all, a young science and what's being taught is a mixture of
1. Sound psychology, psychiatry and I suppose applied neurophysiology
2. Techniques and working models that seem to be effective but don't have a sound scientific basis
3. Techniques that almost certainly are based on crackpot theories but work for some people
4. Complete and utter bollocks.
Generally, and again this is my humble opinion, any psychotherapist worth paying attention to has a good grasp of the distinction between these groups, and is able to adapt the choice of therapy to match the circumstances. The ones you need to be wary of are those who think they've found The Secret Of Curing X, and the ones you need to run from with extreme prejudice are those who've discovered that The Secret Of Curing Anything is Y.
Posts: 5748 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003
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