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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Thomas & Friends - A Thread for those into Training
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
I thought there oughta be a dedicated railway-ological thread again for those accordingly challenged. Much anorakian fun may be had. Or is it just sad?
Anyways: one of my Continental European friends is interested in them tiny wee goods wagons (like so) that used to run pre-British Railways.
He'd like to run them on his N gauge display and wants to know the following:
- Were there complete block trains with wagons by one single owner?
- Are wagons owned by the businesses whose names are on the wagons, or do they belong to one of the railway companies?
- Were there block trains, such as for coal, run with wagons from different businesses?
- Or did they put them together in all sorts of combinations, types, colours and businesses?
[ETA: Found more pics of what he's thinking of.]
I'm afraid this particular time in UK rail history's never been my particular strength, thus helpful comments are appreciated.
Many thanks. And Thomas and tanks.
[ 11. March 2012, 15:10: Message edited by: Wesley J ]
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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frin
Drinking coffee for Jesus
# 9
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Posted
Hi Wesley,
Is this one of those queries that would be better on a specialist forum, rather than a rumoured to be Christian website?
'frin
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"Even the crocodile looks after her young" - Lamentations 4, remembering Erin.
Posts: 4496 | From: a library | Registered: Apr 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
'frin
I was at an induction just over a week ago, when I came across the information that there is a high risk of co-morbidity between being an organist and a railway buff.
Jengie
[ 11. March 2012, 16:06: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
Organist - or bishop?
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
Posts: 1032 | From: Hereabouts | Registered: May 2005
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
quote:
Wilbert Vere Awdry, OBE (15 June 1911 – 21 March 1997), was an English clergyman, railway enthusiast and children's author, better known as the Reverend W. Awdry and creator of Thomas the Tank Engine, who starred in Awdry's acclaimed Railway Series.
Even if Wilbert were tawdry, he'd certainly be a very fine speci-man of those we adore preaching to us the Holy Word of the Lord from the pulpit every Sunday, year in year out. Oh, look - and he's got an OBE! Shiney!
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
Organist - or bishop?
Love that! A worthy successor to the late +Eric Treacy. Who is he?
And re a previous post, there is such a strong correlation between churchy people (especially clergy and Servants of the Sanctuary) and railways that I think such a thread is particularly appropriate for this website.
But I'm not enough of an anorak to answer the OP's question I'm afraid.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Uriel
Shipmate
# 2248
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Posted
Having previously worked in a Diocesan Parsonages office, I can confirm that one vicar caused structural damage to his home by building a tunnel through the living room wall so his train set could carry food from the kitchen to all stations around the ground floor.
Posts: 687 | From: Somerset, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
I know that the Talyllyn Railway in Wales has a high proportion of church-goers and clergy among its volunteers and regular passengers. No getting away from them, some days!
Posts: 1637 | From: North Wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Question-- does being interested in train towns make you part of the train nerd community, or do you primarily have to be interested in the mechanics?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Ok, what are train towns, please?
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
I'm sad enough to be able to answer the questions. I'm even sad enough to think that how goods traffic was managed in steam days is fascinating.
The little wagons your continental friend is asking about were the normal way coal was moved around the country until the 2nd World War. The wagons would belong to local coal merchants who sent their wagons to collieries to collect coal, gas companies etc, or to collieries who would send coal to those that had ordered it.
They did not usually travel in block trains. They were collected from collieries and goods yards, taken to marshalling yards and then shunted into other trains with other peoples' wagons going in the general direction of where they were bound for, then shunted again and tripped out to where they were going.
Goods trains were classified according to the speed and way they travelled. The classifications varied over time and between railway company. These were denoted by the lamp codes on the front of engines and the bell codes used between signal boxes.
The only controllable brakes on most goods wagons were on the engine and in the guard's van at the rear. Because coal trains were heavier and slower than general merchandise ones, on the long stage of the runs, coal usually travelled in long slow dedicated coal trains, except when they were being tripped out to local goods yards for delivery to (or collection from) coal merchants.
So every Private Owner (PO) wagon made one journey full and one empty. To reduce this and pool them, when war broke out in 1939, the government took them into central control. So by BR days there were no PO coal wagons, though in 1948, there were still probably some showing shabby traces of their former owners.
In the 1950s, huge quantities of coal were still grinding slowly around Britain in unbraked wagons but they were supplied by BR. The wagons still looked the same but as the fifties progressed, BR changed its standard pattern coal and mineral wagon from a wooden box to a metal one of about the same side.
Does this help?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
Ok, what are train towns, please?
Forgive me, but to give my definition I'm gonna have to get all Califonian for a minute....
Along the coast of California, there are all these towns that grew up from isolated outposts centering around a trains station. In other words, the only reason there was a town there was that a train station went there. People would even buy land along a train route so they could start their own town ( e.g. Pescadero, CA, build by land owner Loren Cobern. The late Tobin, CA, built by the Tobin family. etc.)
Some of the stations are still operating, most are not. ( At least in my area-- the Ocean Pacific Railroad had a tragic, geography-challenge history.) But for the most part, the town still has the station as a central feature, and you can kind of see how things have morphed around it.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
<speechless adoration>
Learning a few new things here as well - it all sounds perfectly logical, now that you're pointing it out! Food for thought! Enoch is Enoch! Ta, mate!
I love history and seeing how it all comes together. Especially if you're into modelling, knowing the history of trains and lines s a huge asset: you need to think that the landscape was there before the train, and so they had to work with nature and around it, and form it - but by and large, the surroundings were there first.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Pleased to be of service.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
I'm sad enough to be able to answer the questions. I'm even sad enough to think that how goods traffic was managed in steam days is fascinating.
My hubby would agree with you. He is particularly interested in the goods wagons of L&YR.
As a future Vicar I joke that I meet the requirements of train interest by marriage! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
(edited to correct inability to type!)
[ 11. March 2012, 20:51: Message edited by: Jante ]
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
Organist - or bishop?
Love that! A worthy successor to the late +Eric Treacy. Who is he?
And re a previous post, there is such a strong correlation between churchy people (especially clergy and Servants of the Sanctuary) and railways that I think such a thread is particularly appropriate for this website.
But I'm not enough of an anorak to answer the OP's question I'm afraid.
Who is he? Another picture taken at Pickering, showing Dr Platten, this time with Dr Hope.
[ 11. March 2012, 20:51: Message edited by: Metapelagius ]
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
Posts: 1032 | From: Hereabouts | Registered: May 2005
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
The Bishop of Wakefield then? It must be a qualification for the job.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
This article in the Church Times concerning a freak weather event says of the vicar: quote:
The signal box from his garden railway was lost
as if it were the most normal thing in the world. To have a garden railway.
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
PS: More about him here.
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
The Church Times even has this fabulous 'Train-A-Priest' fund! They appear to support priests who are still without a model railway.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Jante, you're a very lucky woman.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
I should have asked "Is that why you chose him?"
Would he still have passed muster if his enthusiasm was Glasgow and South Western Horseboxes, or even something completely different, bee-keeping or AEC buses of the 1930s?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
AEC buses of the 1930s?
I grew up and went to primary school within spitting distance of the AEC works. Can we have a Bertie the bus thread too, please?
Train towns are not exclusive to California. I submit Laroche-Migennes, ville dont l'existence est purement ferroviaire* (Michel Butor).
*"Town which owes its existince entirely to the railway"
[edited to fix link]
[ 12. March 2012, 12:19: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
[edited to fix link]
Ineffectively. Try this.
(you'll just have to live with the spelling of "existince" though)
[ 12. March 2012, 12:21: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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marzipan
Shipmate
# 9442
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Posted
Another railway town is Crewe.
(Is it odd that the Thomas theme tune started playing in my head when I saw the thread title??)
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formerly cheesymarzipan.
Now containing 50% less cheese
Posts: 917 | From: nowhere in particular | Registered: May 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
Ok, what are train towns, please?
Forgive me, but to give my definition I'm gonna have to get all Califonian for a minute....
Along the coast of California, there are all these towns that grew up from isolated outposts centering around a trains station. In other words, the only reason there was a town there was that a train station went there.
Ah, that's not what I would have thought at all! We have plenty of towns - well, suburbs to be honest - that only became towns because of the station - some entirely invented by the railway, more often with a core little settlement somewhere. That's really the cliched way the outer suburbs of London were built. There are hundreds of them, literally. Probably about a third of the population of the south-east of England live in such places. But I'd not call them "railway towns".
For me a "railway town" is a town or city that had major railway engineering works in it. Its not a place trains go, its a place trains come from.
Some of them were significant industrial cities anyway - Glasgow had huge railway works in the late 19th and early 20th century but as it was one of the biggest industrial centres in the world at the time already no-ones's likely to call it a "railway town". York and Derby and Darlington fit the description a bit better - significant places before, but in the late 19th century dominated by railways.
But others more or less came into existence because of the railway. As someone said before, Crewe didn't exist at all before the railway. Rugby was a small town, Swindon no more than a village. Those three became almost the stereotype railway towns. They had significant junctions, so millions of people changed trains at their stations (and still do - none of them is a very pleasant place to do that though). For convenience the railway companies put their yards there, they grew into maintenance works, and they grew into manufacturing works. They also put offices there. The travelling staff tended to live there as well, becuase he trains started and stopped there each day. So they became company towns, each in the pocket of a different owner.
There were other towns with significant railway works that no-one much thinks of as railway towns - Guildford or Eastleigh or Ashford or Brighton in the south-east corner of England which don't fit most people's stereotype of industrial towns, though they all were until very recently.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
And please don't forget North Norfolk's very own railway town: Melton Constable.
It seems hard to think of this tiny village as a major railway junction or a place where locomotives were actually built - but it was!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Ichabod!
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cheesymarzipan:
[...] (Is it odd that the Thomas theme tune started playing in my head when I saw the thread title??)
Nah.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Ken-- Let's just call it Definition A. and Definition B.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Just to continue the Train Town tangent:
Certainly in western Canada, and in quite a few places east of Thunder Bay, towns grew up specifically because of the railways. The railways actually built the stations and laid out the road pattern before there was any sort of town in hundreds of places. The immigrants weren't going to come if there was no infrastructure. Canadian Northern alone built 1073 stations in the West during a 20-year span (1897 to 1918), although, admittedly, a few of these were replacements for buildings that burned or that proved to be too small for the job, and the vast majority were in townsites created by the railways.
That these towns depended on the railway is shown by the disappearance of many of them once the passenger trains and wooden grain elevators became redundant.
Similarly, places like Napadogan, NB or MacAdam, NB became shadows of their former selves with the end of steam power.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cheesymarzipan:
Another railway town is Crewe.
Michael Baughen revealed once (in a talk which I heard) that when offered the see of Chester said that he could not refuse a diocese which had within its borders the town of Crewe.
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Enoch wrote:
quote:
Would he still have passed muster if his enthusiasm was Glasgow and South Western Horseboxes, or even something completely different, bee-keeping or AEC buses of the 1930s?
Contributing to a thread idea in 'another place', we might note that men most certainly are not useless if one needs information on AEC buses of the 1930s. Or, on one vintage radio board to which I contribute, obsolete flourescent light fittings. 20+ pages of thread...with pictures. Clear evidence in my mind that man shall not live by bread alone...
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
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Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
Organist - or bishop?
Love that! A worthy successor to the late +Eric Treacy. Who is he?
...
Who is he? Another picture taken at Pickering, showing Dr Platten, this time with Dr Hope.
I will be one of the people you can just make out on the footbridge...
Posts: 3322 | From: West Thriding | Registered: Jun 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Of course, that was before the new roof was installed.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
This thread should be in a dark corner of Hell.
AtB, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
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Posted
I have also visited since the new roof was installed, and very fine it looks too! I should next be going to the NYMR on the May Bank Holiday.
Posts: 3322 | From: West Thriding | Registered: Jun 2001
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Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
This thread should be in a dark corner of Hell.
AtB, Pyx_e
And also with you!
Posts: 3322 | From: West Thriding | Registered: Jun 2001
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geroff
Shipmate
# 3882
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Posted
The only answer to that is
to post some trains from hell
from the darkest recesses of a geeks mind...
[ 13. March 2012, 13:44: Message edited by: geroff ]
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"The first principle in science is to invent something nice to look at and then decide what it can do." Rowland Emett 1906-1990
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
I should have asked "Is that why you chose him?"
Enoch, no but as a lass born in Yorkshire and brought up in lancashire it was an attraction! At least I can talk knowledgably about the area and take an interest in the buildings which still exist. He's hoping we may eventually settle long enough in one place to be able to have a train track either in the loft or garden!
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
New London King's Cross concourse completed. Mmmmmh... sweet. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by geroff:
The only answer to that is to post some trains from hell from the darkest recesses of a geeks mind...
Now that is as weird as it is spectacular! Sort of Ubergeeky.
(OK, I admit to drawing and designing entire new engines and trains as a kid myself, including lotsa technical details, and with rail connections and routes, in a completely ficticious country. Strangely enough, it all appeared to make quite some sense! - Perhaps I should start again... it was a very creative and content period in this geek's life and is fondly remembered, and though possibly not up to Tolkien standards of inventiveness, was certainly a great lot of fun! ![[Cool]](cool.gif) )
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
possibly not up to Tolkien standards of inventiveness, was certainly a great lot of fun!
Middle Earth with trains would, just ever so slightly, stir my interest.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
possibly not up to Tolkien standards of inventiveness, was certainly a great lot of fun!
Middle Earth with trains would, just ever so slightly, stir my interest.
If Tolkien had anything to do with it then seventy-five pages of pointless tramping over a bog under laden skies (while not getting nearer to one's objective) would be replaced by seventy-five pages waiting for a train.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
As in "train" = "Godot"?
Perhaps only in Ireland.
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Middle Earth with trains would, just ever so slightly, stir my interest.
Did you see the bottom one in geroff's link, Firenze?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
if Tolkien had anything to do with it then seventy-five pages of pointless tramping over a bog under laden skies (while not getting nearer to one's objective) would be replaced by seventy-five pages waiting for a train.
He wasn't actually Freeman Wills Croft* was he?
*in one of whose novels, as I recall, characters spend several weeks secretly observing pit props.
[ 14. March 2012, 15:11: Message edited by: Firenze ]
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Did you see the bottom one in geroff's link, Firenze?
Checks link
Egad.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
That purportedly LotR railway isn't unlike the Nazi plans of 3 metre-wide tracks (9'10 1⁄8") all across Europe. Which from a technical point of view seem rather impractical? Any thoughts?
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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