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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Wee cuppies with a twist
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
It gets better: wine-infused wafers.
Thanks to some friends on the book of face. You know who you are.
[ 02. May 2012, 23:46: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
Oh my. Obviously those will not be usable by some of us.
Now all they need is a Vegas-style dealing apparatus..press a button, aim, and the host shoots into the mouth of the communicant.* No more would we be subjected to those icky ordinary and extraordinary minister germs.
*Oh, wait, flashback moment.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Now all they need is a Vegas-style dealing apparatus..press a button, aim, and the host shoots into the mouth of the communicant.* No more would we be subjected to those icky ordinary and extraordinary minister germs.
And it comes in real silver plate, too!
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Looks like Donald Trump's Pez dispenser.
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Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Now all they need is a Vegas-style dealing apparatus..press a button, aim, and the host shoots into the mouth of the communicant.* No more would we be subjected to those icky ordinary and extraordinary minister germs.
And it comes in real silver plate, too!
I keep looking at those and expecting quarters to come out of them.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Adrian1
Shipmate
# 3994
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Posted
I've heard of this sort of thing before and 'horrific' is the word which springs to mind. There is a website which, I believe, goes by the name of "Something Awful" and this would, I think be a prime candidate for it. Quite apart from the bad theology behind prepackaged 'wee cuppies' it's impossible not to contemplate with dread how the question of the ablutions would be tackled.
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The Parson's Handbook contains much excellent advice, which, if it were more generally followed, would bring some order and reasonableness into the amazing vagaries of Anglican Ritualism. Adrian Fortescue
Posts: 1986 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
The cuppies look like jello pudding snack for kids!
I didn't see any cheese on offer. I guess, depending on denomination, actual cheese will be present, or present in a spiritual sense.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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rhflan
Shipmate
# 17092
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Posted
I've heard chaplains on the front lines say positive things about them...just b/c they make things a little easier on them. I always feel odd using them in a normal/typical church service though.
I think that they might also be helpful if a minister wanted to go to a hospital or nursing home to share communion there to use something like that.
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www.twitter.com/rhflan
Posts: 135 | Registered: May 2012
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
I can see some unusual circumstances where the prepackaged elements *might* make sense; upthread, a large-scale Scouting event, with thousands of people, many of them dirty, seems to be one of those reasonable exceptions. But the intense focus on sanitation surrounding these products strikes me as overly fussy. And the wine-infused wafers is Just Wrong. Wronger than a Wrong Thing that is Mistaken (to borrow a phrase from the blessed Gator herself).
quote:
Originally posted by Adrian1:
... it's impossible not to contemplate with dread how the question of the ablutions would be tackled.
I would hope it includes some attempt to gather and responsibly dispose of all the waste generated by these things.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
Are wine-infused wafers even valid matter? I would have thought that it was doubtful at best...
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Pre-intincted wafers? When it is unclear what exactly you mean when you said "This is My Body" and "This is My Blood" you should probably not use this product.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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JeffTL
Apprentice
# 16722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
Are wine-infused wafers even valid matter? I would have thought that it was doubtful at best...
I don't really see how it could be. There's no precedent in 2000 years of Christian history for replacing bread and wine with wine-flavored bread, which is what this is seems to be. At minimum its use in a church that mandates the people's access to the chalice would be illicit.
Posts: 49 | From: Chicago | Registered: Oct 2011
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
I'm trying to work through that question, too, and even though I find much to criticize about the product, I have to ask whether -- in terms of wine-infused bread being valid -- does it really differ from a wafer that has been intincted? Could one not say, "The body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ (etc)" as one does after intincting?
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
Intinction though takes place following the consecration. It, of course, depends what framework you use to talk about validity but often one of the criteria is that is be wheat bread without adulteration - so the addition of other non-usual ingredients can render it invalid matter for consecration. I would have thought that wine might will be such an ingredient.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
That makes sense. I also wonder if these types of products are typically used by churches that hold to a strictly memorialist view of the Eucharist. That means I'm also assuming they would not have the same concerns about the way the elements were made, and I may be incorrect on that.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
I suspect you're right there. Speaking personally, I would be extremely reluctant to use such things anywhere I had responsibility.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
That makes sense. I also wonder if these types of products are typically used by churches that hold to a strictly memorialist view of the Eucharist. That means I'm also assuming they would not have the same concerns about the way the elements were made, and I may be incorrect on that.
I obviously can't speak for everybody but yes for many memorialists it would be a concern.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Memorialism has a high correlation with grape-juice affinity, so this product would be out on those grounds.
Speaking as the Elder in charge of organizing Communion for my church, I'd never let this product in the building and the minister himself would refuse to use it.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Memorialism has a high correlation with grape-juice affinity, so this product would be out on those grounds.
It's alcohol-free "wine."
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
I dunno . . . those silver-plated disc dispensers look a lot like the change holders carhops and diner waitresses carry. I guess that, if I show up next Sunday with a loaf and bottle, I'll get my change in presoaked wafers.
And, while most memorialists don't care what the matter is, at least not on theological grounds (grape juice and gluten-free wafers are options at the church I go to), even we can draw lines based on good taste and appropriateness to the situation. Sure, there may be allowances made during Youth Sunday, when there just isn't any grape juice during a retreat, or other extenuating circumstances, but this isn't even putting forth a good faith effort. If it smacks of laziness, lack of care, or mass processing, it's probably not worth it.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
I think I am going to need a cup of gin to recover from this one. There is something about pre-intincted wafers and non-alcoholic "wine" - which, unless it is mustum, is invalid matter in my denom anyway - which induces a severe shock to the system.
Now, where's the gin...
PD
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My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
And, while most memorialists don't care what the matter is, at least not on theological grounds (grape juice and gluten-free wafers are options at the church I go to), even we can draw lines based on good taste and appropriateness to the situation. Sure, there may be allowances made during Youth Sunday, when there just isn't any grape juice during a retreat, or other extenuating circumstances, but this isn't even putting forth a good faith effort. If it smacks of laziness, lack of care, or mass processing, it's probably not worth it.
I think "most" is a bit of a stretch. At least in the United States there are plenty of memorialists who, holding to a form of the regulative principle, would insist on unleavened bread and juice or wine served seperately and in that particular order. Scriptural warrant, not good taste, would be the overriding principle.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
JSwift
Have you never heard of "due order", which is perhaps "taste" by any other name in these circumstances. It basically means things need to be done properly. That goes for communion, but also for the passing of the budget or the calling of a minister.
Presbyterian tend to be very strong on it.
Jengie
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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