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Source: (consider it) Thread: The Great Prats Redefined
Gamaliel
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Etymological Evangelical, Drewthealexander, Ramarius - you are all prats. Big fat pietistic prats.

You've driven me away from the faith. You've driven me into the arms of unbelief. I'm apostasising NOW ... and it's all your fault!

I hope you can live with yourselves. I hope you can live with yourselves as I roast in eternal Hell-fire.

Or perhaps you'd enjoy that ... St Augustine said that this would be one of the pleasures of the Saved ... or was it someone else.

I don't know. I don't care any more. I'm doomed ... doomed ... doomed ...

[Mad]

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Lyda*Rose

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Good grief, Gamalial. [Roll Eyes]

Now you've gone and whipped yourself into a frenzied tantrum. I think someone needs a nap and some time off from Purg.

Here's your buppy.

Now when you wake up and Mum gives you a cookie and a glass of milk and you are feeling much better, say to yourself: "They are just some guys (and/or prats) with some opinions. It's really nothing to do with me."

Repeat as necessary. There's a good boy. [Angel]

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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You can't burn in a hell you don't believe in - or you'll disappear in a puff of logic.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Jahlove
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Vastly annoying as some people can be, as Lyda*Rose says, no-one can MAKE you do anything (by the same token, you can't MAKE anyone do anything). Unless they have a gun to your head, in which case it doesn't count since it's duress.

It may be that you are ready to leave the faith for a while (*apostate* might be too strong a term) - in order to rethink, regroup - in which case, they might even have done you a favour by giving you the reason to take time out (an old cliché, I know, but your greatest enemy can be your best teacher).

Take care, Gam.


@ Miss: [Killing me]

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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain

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Loquacious beachcomber
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Perhaps the solution is far more simple, Gamaliel; have you considered having a PSA test for your apostate gland?

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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)

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Jahlove
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you don't get any funnier do ya, Goat Crack?

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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain

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Loquacious beachcomber
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Yo' momma was so ugly, the only beauty contest she was ever allowed to enter had "Best of Breed" as top prize, JahScuzz.

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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)

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Jahlove
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Best of Breed = Top Beyotchki [Big Grin]

Unfunny poster who thinks he's funny = Epsilon - *

* reference for SF coz I'm pretty sure he won't get it without being explicitly told

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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain

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Beeswax Altar
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What are you going on about? [Confused]

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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan

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Loquacious beachcomber
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To whom are you addressing that question, Beeswax Alter?
Personally, I'm just pissed off because today is my birthday, and now the fucking threads are showing the date as June 5 - not June 4.

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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)

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Beeswax Altar
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Gamaliel

I want to know why he started the thread.

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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan

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Lyda*Rose

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He and the Evil Evo-Krisma triplets have been splitting hairs about certainty in the "Great Sins Redefined" and "Speaking in Tongues" threads. I had to stop reading. My head was about to explode. In essence, they all think they are Right about one thing or another. And both sides are sure that the other lacks humility in their opinions.

Yeah, both sides are right about that one. They're a bunch of egotistical jerkwads. [brick wall]

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Spiffy
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
He and the Evil Evo-Krisma triplets have been splitting hairs about certainty in the "Great Sins Redefined" and "Speaking in Tongues" threads. I had to stop reading. My head was about to explode. In essence, they all think they are Right about one thing or another. And both sides are sure that the other lacks humility in their opinions.

Yeah, both sides are right about that one. They're a bunch of egotistical jerkwads. [brick wall]

Druther have all four of them Someone Is Wrong on the Internet-ing than spreading that shite about like high class fertilizer in an Asshole Garden.

Because Lord knows we got enough of those around here.

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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

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Evensong
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That's so one of my favorite pics.

I might put it on my tombstone. (Right next to psalm 100).

[ 05. June 2012, 02:22: Message edited by: Evensong ]

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orfeo

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Aw. I don't think Gamaliel really has it in him to be vicious enough for a truly vicious Hell call. It's a bit like watching Ned Flanders swear.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Loquacious beachcomber
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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
That's so one of my favorite pics.

I might put it on my tombstone.

You will be prompt about that, Sweetie?

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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)

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Loquacious beachcomber
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quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Gamaliel

I want to know why he started the thread.

Beezer, old chap, if you click on the last 50 posts of Gamaliel, you will find him active on some Purgatory posts.
Do the same for his callees, you will find them on the same posts.
Then you will have answered your own question.
I'm just sayin'...

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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)

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irish_lord99
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
Druther have all four of them Someone Is Wrong on the Internet-ing than spreading that shite about like high class fertilizer in an Asshole Garden.

Because Lord knows we got enough of those around here.

I've got to ask, what's an "Asshole Garden"? I'm not going to Google that with my wife wandering around!

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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain

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Boogie

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Too much red wine last night Gamaliel?

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Curiosity killed ...

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psst Boogie - more likely real ale, and don't ask more unless you like and are interested in real ale

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Steve H
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Do decimopietists and other conservative Catholics belong to CAMRAM - the Campaign for Real 'Ail Marys?

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Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted.
Herbert Butterfield.

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EtymologicalEvangelical
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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel
Etymological Evangelical, Drewthealexander, Ramarius - you are all prats. Big fat pietistic prats.

You've driven me away from the faith. You've driven me into the arms of unbelief. I'm apostasising NOW ... and it's all your fault!

I hope you can live with yourselves. I hope you can live with yourselves as I roast in eternal Hell-fire.

What a big baby.

Ever heard of something called "thinking for yourself", dear chap?

No... I didn't think so.

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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Socratic-enigma
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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
What a big baby.

And this from the wuss who got his panties in a twist about speaking in tongues … Sheesh!

I think it’s time the Ship considered a new board – Babylon (for those who babble on and on… and on, about issues of minimal or no importance) There is something particularly unedifying about middle-aged men who delight in giving each other wedgies. Those whose maturity has not progressed past Bart Simpson level should be isolated where they may quibble about the number of angels on the head of a pin to their heart's content without affecting or infecting the rest of us.

S-E

(unofficially of course, it would be known as The Wankers’ Room)

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"Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them."
David Hume

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Zach82
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quote:
I think it’s time the Ship considered a new board – Babylon (for those who babble on and on… and on, about issues of minimal or no importance)
*cough*

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Evensong
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SE would be host. Of course.

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a theological scrapbook

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Golden Key
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{{{{{{{Gamaliel}}}}}}}

IMHO, don't let idiots drive you from your beliefs. If you need a vacation from Christianity or to walk away altogether, fine. But there are always going to be idiots somewhere.

YMMV.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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EtymologicalEvangelical
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quote:
Originally farted up by Socratic-enigma
I think it’s time the Ship considered a new board – Babylon (for those who babble on and on… and on, about issues of minimal or no importance)

Code for: "...about issues - such as epistemology - that I am too thick to understand, and in which I have no interest. But I am so arrogant that I can't bear just to ignore such threads and concentrate on those I am interested in, and like all small-minded "up your arse" petty minded despots, I want to prevent other people from discussing issues which I don't "get". And like my mate Gamaliel, I can't bear contradiction of any kind, and when it appears I throw the Ship's biggest tantrum. But that's OK, because puerile tantrums give me my masturbatory thrills."

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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Boogie

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
{{{{{{{Gamaliel}}}}}}}

IMHO, don't let idiots drive you from your beliefs. If you need a vacation from Christianity or to walk away altogether, fine. But there are always going to be idiots somewhere.

YMMV.

Golden Key - I am pretty certain Gamaliel was being ironic/joking in his OP.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Boogie

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quote:
Originally posted by Socratic-enigma:


I think it’s time the Ship considered a new board – Babylon (for those who babble on and on… and on, about issues of minimal or no importance)

Good idea - but we'd have to be sent there, nobody likes to admit to babbling on ...

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
{{{{{{{Gamaliel}}}}}}}

IMHO, don't let idiots drive you from your beliefs. If you need a vacation from Christianity or to walk away altogether, fine. But there are always going to be idiots somewhere.

YMMV.

Golden Key - I am pretty certain Gamaliel was being ironic/joking in his OP.
And if you weren't being ironic, don't let them get you down, with their false modesty. They put the holes in holiness and do more for atheism than the National Secular Society and British Humanist Association together. If Satan has a fifth column it consists of bone-headed Christians, not Satanists, Pagans and atheists.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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LeRoc

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Gamaliel, you could become a liberal of course.

This way, in discussing with the fundies, you'll always Be Right™ [Biased]

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Marvin the Martian

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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
And like my mate Gamaliel, I can't bear contradiction of any kind, and when it appears I throw the Ship's biggest tantrum.

Ya want to watch out where you're flinging that masonry, you might put a hole in your greenhouse. Or does your little hissy fit over having your views on the matter in question contradicted not count? [Roll Eyes]

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Hail Gallaxhar

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EtymologicalEvangelical
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quote:
Originally opined by Sioni Sais
And if you weren't being ironic, don't let them get you down, with their false modesty. They put the holes in holiness and do more for atheism than the National Secular Society and British Humanist Association together. If Satan has a fifth column it consists of bone-headed Christians, not Satanists, Pagans and atheists.

Can I take it (in the context of this "discussion"), that you believe that someone who commits the heinous crime of daring to believe that his or her gift of tongues is actually "of God" (and who doesn't make any comment or judgment about anyone else's spirituality) thereby becomes worse than a Satanist, Pagan and atheist?

I don't need to try to insult you.

You have insulted yourself.

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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EtymologicalEvangelical
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian
Ya want to watch out where you're flinging that masonry, you might put a hole in your greenhouse. Or does your little hissy fit over having your views on the matter in question contradicted not count?

Yeah. You are, of course, absolutely right (although "I might be wrong").

I shouldn't try to defend myself against false accusations.

(Note to myself: Remember to submit unreservedly to the views of the most cantankerous member of the Ship. If not, you will be accused of hypocrisy. Always bear in mind that the Ship pretends to encourage freedom of speech, thought and conscience, but in reality "you can have any colour of thought you like, as long as it's totally subjective and sceptical and you don't mention the evil 'C' word: 'certainty' ".)


[brick wall]

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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irish_lord99
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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
Originally opined by Sioni Sais
And if you weren't being ironic, don't let them get you down, with their false modesty. They put the holes in holiness and do more for atheism than the National Secular Society and British Humanist Association together. If Satan has a fifth column it consists of bone-headed Christians, not Satanists, Pagans and atheists.

Can I take it (in the context of this "discussion"), that you believe that someone who commits the heinous crime of daring to believe that his or her gift of tongues is actually "of God" (and who doesn't make any comment or judgment about anyone else's spirituality) thereby becomes worse than a Satanist, Pagan and atheist?

I don't need to try to insult you.

You have insulted yourself.

I think he's more referring to those who major in the minor details and make a BIG deal out of a little issue.

Or maybe those who write pages and pages trying to prove that they were 'right' and therefore soooo humble. [Roll Eyes]

Get over yourself.

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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain

Posts: 1169 | From: Maine, US | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged
Dinghy Sailor

Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Socratic-enigma:


I think it’s time the Ship considered a new board – Babylon (for those who babble on and on… and on, about issues of minimal or no importance)

Good idea - but we'd have to be sent there, nobody likes to admit to babbling on ...
They'd be in a Babylonian captivity.

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Preach Christ, because this old humanity has used up all hopes and expectations, but in Christ hope lives and remains.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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EtymologicalEvangelical
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quote:
I think he's more referring to those who major in the minor details and make a BIG deal out of a little issue.
Exactly. Like this hell call.

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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irish_lord99
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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
I think he's more referring to those who major in the minor details and make a BIG deal out of a little issue.
Exactly. Like this hell call.
[Killing me]

But momma, they do it TOO!!! [Waterworks]

[Roll Eyes]

You started a thread on pride to prove that you were humble because you were RIGHT about a matter that isn't even of secondary importance in the Christian faith.

Seriously dude, get over yourself.

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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain

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Albertus
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# 13356

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
{{{{{{{Gamaliel}}}}}}}

IMHO, don't let idiots drive you from your beliefs. If you need a vacation from Christianity or to walk away altogether, fine. But there are always going to be idiots somewhere.

YMMV.

Golden Key - I am pretty certain Gamaliel was being ironic/joking in his OP.
I hope so. He is one of the shipmates to whose contributions I turn when I want some help thinking a question through.

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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
I shouldn't try to defend myself against false accusations.

If you can't face a simple questioning of your worldvew without seeing it as a false accusation against your character, then you're on the wrong bulletin board.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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EtymologicalEvangelical
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# 15091

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quote:
Originally posted by irish_lord99
You started a thread on pride to prove that you were humble

Perhaps you would like to learn how to read properly.

Funny, but I thought that the thread I started was questioning whether "pride and humility" is related to "certainty and uncertainty". But apparently that seems to have been lost on you.

Do keep up.

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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EtymologicalEvangelical
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# 15091

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian
If you can't face a simple questioning of your worldvew without seeing it as a false accusation against your character, then you're on the wrong bulletin board.

Well clearly you have a different definition of "simple questioning" than I have.

I guess you're just made of sterner stuff and would never dream of feeling even the slightest bit upset if someone called you a totally arrogant bastard just for committing the crime of daring to believe something to be true (that did not involve looking down on anyone else, as it was something entirely personal).

So I cannot help but admire you for your obvious superiority.

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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EtymologicalEvangelical - various people have tried to persuade you that you can say "I believe this to be true, but I could be wrong" without losing any of your faith/belief. For some reason you won't do it.

Which is fine.

Just say 'I won't do it' and leave the subject alone. It's the fact that you keep coming back to it (even opening new threads on the same thing) that's irking, and makes me feel thou protesteth too loud.

[and yes, Gamaliel is doing the same in the other direction - but at least he admits it!]


[Snore] [Roll Eyes] [Snore]

[ 06. June 2012, 10:33: Message edited by: Boogie ]

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irish_lord99
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# 16250

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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:


Funny, but I thought that the thread I started was questioning whether "pride and humility" is related to "certainty and uncertainty". But apparently that seems to have been lost on you.

That may be why you said you started the thread, but reading the thread itself is like swimming in your self-'rightness' indignation.

ETA: and what boogie just said

[ 06. June 2012, 10:35: Message edited by: irish_lord99 ]

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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
Originally opined by Sioni Sais
And if you weren't being ironic, don't let them get you down, with their false modesty. They put the holes in holiness and do more for atheism than the National Secular Society and British Humanist Association together. If Satan has a fifth column it consists of bone-headed Christians, not Satanists, Pagans and atheists.

Can I take it (in the context of this "discussion"), that you believe that someone who commits the heinous crime of daring to believe that his or her gift of tongues is actually "of God" (and who doesn't make any comment or judgment about anyone else's spirituality) thereby becomes worse than a Satanist, Pagan and atheist?

No, you can't take any of that in the ways you express. You and your pals, through wilful misundertanding and misrepresentation of the scriptures, discourage others who aren't such slavish devotees of the views you hold. Get it into your thick skulls that doubts are reasonable, don't beat people up for having them, and if these doubts extend to some of the gifts spiritual then pray for them but please STFU about it. Thanks.

quote:

I don't need to try to insult you.

You have insulted yourself.

That's about as arrogant as one can get, and another indication of your ability to discourage.

You might be an evangelical, but you don't talk like an evangelist.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
I guess you're just made of sterner stuff and would never dream of feeling even the slightest bit upset if someone called you a totally arrogant bastard just for committing the crime of daring to believe something to be true

If someone called me an arrogant bastard for refusing to even countenance the idea that my beliefs may not be true, they'd be right.

Arrogance is not believing something to be true, it's refusing to even adknowledge the possibility of it being false.

[ 06. June 2012, 10:56: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]

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Hail Gallaxhar

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EtymologicalEvangelical
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# 15091

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie
EtymologicalEvangelical - various people have tried to persuade you that you can say "I believe this to be true, but I could be wrong" without losing any of your faith/belief. For some reason you won't do it.

Which is fine.

Just say 'I won't do it' and leave the subject alone. It's the fact that you keep coming back to it (even opening new threads on the same thing) that's irking, and makes me feel thou protesteth too loud.

[and yes, Gamaliel is doing the same in the other direction - but at least he admits it!]

Well, I did explain that I was prepared to "do" it (i.e. be completely open to any evidence that could prove me wrong).

Also I was prepared to leave the subject alone. That's why I pulled out of the "tongues" thread (and Gammy actually wanted me to continue the discussion there). Yes of course I opened a new thread, but that was because the bust-up that we were having on the "tongues" thread, which I was getting sick of, threw up an issue that I think is actually objectively very important (as it has come up in my debates with atheists elsewhere). I think it is regrettable that people who claim certainty about anything (even in the most non-arrogant way they can muster) are accused of being proud and that there is some virtue in total scepticism. (I hope to continue the discusson on the other thread and respond to your recent post there).

Furthermore, on another thread Gammy was going on about the same thing - almost anything I wrote elicited the accusation of arrogance. OK, I suppose I should have perhaps ignored him, but I thought that addressing the issue of "pride and certainty" properly in a serious thread might actually clear the air.

Obviously I was wrong.

And then we get this ridiculous hell thread, and I am completely bemused as to what I said that "made" Gamaliel consider becoming an atheist.

You're right. I've had enough of this nonsense. So to summarise all I have said: "I believe something personal to me is completely of God. If someone can show me coherent and convincing evidence that this is not the case, then I would be willing to consider it. End of." If this makes me "arrogant", then so be it. I'm arrogant. Big deal.

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
"I believe something personal to me is completely of God. If someone can show me coherent and convincing evidence that this is not the case, then I would be willing to consider it. End of."

That's stupid. If evidence existed for or against it you wouldn't have to believe - you'd know.

The problem is that something for which no evidence can exist, and which is therefore merely a matter of belief, is being treated as if it has been conclusively proved. That's just barmy in my book.

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

The problem is that something for which no evidence can exist, and which is therefore merely a matter of belief, is being treated as if it has been conclusively proved. That's just barmy in my book.

Exactly - except that I wouldn't use the word 'merely', our beliefs often inform our worldview which informs how we treat others.

EE calls himself 'Etymological' but seems to fall into many category errors when it comes to language. As I said here.

Not very etymological at all in my view.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:


... And then we get this ridiculous hell thread, and I am completely bemused as to what I said that "made" Gamaliel consider becoming an atheist.


If you can't understand simple declarative sentences that is your problem alone. I can only conclude that you don't want to understand them.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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