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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Gotta Love Coffee Hour
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
So, I had a conversation after Mass that pretty much went like this:
Anonymous Parishioner: It's outrageous we can't post the Ten Commandments in courthouses and public schools.
Me: I couldn't care less if they're posted there or not. What's important is if they are written on our hearts or not. For example, more Christians could choose not to shop on Sun-
Anonymous Parishioner: GET THEE BEHIND ME, SATAN! ARE YOU SOME KIND OF COMMUNIST?
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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lily pad
Shipmate
# 11456
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Posted
Two Sundays ago, on the way to coffee hour - first time visitor to this church, btw - I commented to a parishioner that the sermon - on the speck/plank - was quite thought provoking and that I wished I could be there for part two to learn who my enemy is.
I was asked emphatically had I never been persecuted for my faith? I replied that I couldn't really say. That reply was obviously not the correct one. I was told I must not be praying enough and certainly wasn't much of a Christian.
Needless to say, coffee hour was rather dull after that admonishment.
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Sloppiness is not caring. Fussiness is caring about the wrong things. With thanks to Adeodatus!
Posts: 2468 | From: Truly Canadian | Registered: May 2006
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
So, they were tempted to join you in not posting the Ten Commandments all over the place and said that to help themselves resist the temptation?
Or, they didn't even get that biblical theme right and have room temperature IQ's?
Either way, I might have been tempted to lay an open hand on forehead and loudly pray:
Lord, Jeezus, take this poor soul's stupid away from him. Amen.
But, that is just me.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Lord, Jeezus, take this poor soul's stupid away from him. Amen.
snigger.
My God, are my lot gonna get sick of me laying that one on them by the end of the week.
AtB, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
So, they were tempted to join you in not posting the Ten Commandments all over the place and said that to help themselves resist the temptation?
This isn't a literal transcript of the conversation. The last line, especially, was exaggerated for comedic effect. The theme remains though.
The irony here is that this person wanted the Ten Commandments posted everywhere when he can't even bring himself to follow one of the simplest ones, and is in fact offended when I suggested doing it, e.g. the Lord's Day as a day of rest.
[ 15. July 2012, 21:59: Message edited by: Unreformed ]
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
That is because posting the Ten Commandments is a political theme, not a religious one.
There have been threads here before where discussion got around to all the SFB types wanting the Ten Commandments everywhere. The funniest links were to the ones who were asked to recite the commandments and couldn't even remember one or two.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
That is because posting the Ten Commandments is a political theme, not a religious one.
There have been threads here before where discussion got around to all the SFB types wanting the Ten Commandments everywhere. The funniest links were to the ones who were asked to recite the commandments and couldn't even remember one or two.
Exactly, it's nothing more than a Republican shibboleth. Look, I teach in an inner city high school, and I can tell you exactly how much effect posting the Ten Commandments in my classroom would have on my students--NONE. It would be like giving a guy that just got his right leg blown off by a landmine a band-aid and two aspirin.
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Funny story about how those ten commandments got in our court houses in the first place: they were a promotional campaign for the movie the Ten Commandments.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
quote:
So, they were tempted to join you in not posting the Ten Commandments all over the place and said that to help themselves resist the temptation?
This isn't a literal transcript of the conversation. The last line, especially, was exaggerated for comedic effect. The theme remains though.
I'm sorry, it must a literal transcription. Exaggerating for effect is a no-no, why, you'll be using some fancy-dan translation of scripture next.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
quote:
So, they were tempted to join you in not posting the Ten Commandments all over the place and said that to help themselves resist the temptation?
This isn't a literal transcript of the conversation. The last line, especially, was exaggerated for comedic effect. The theme remains though.
I'm sorry, it must a literal transcription. Exaggerating for effect is a no-no, why, you'll be using some fancy-dan translation of scripture next.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) Obviously I'm a heretic destined for heeeeeyuuuuuuuhl!
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Funny story about how those ten commandments got in our court houses in the first place: they were a promotional campaign for the movie the Ten Commandments.
Do tell. I can't wait to hear this one.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
The irony here is that this person wanted the Ten Commandments posted everywhere when he can't even bring himself to follow one of the simplest ones, and is in fact offended when I suggested doing it, e.g. the Lord's Day as a day of rest.
I don't want to bring down a pedant rain on your Hellish Parade, but somebody's gotta point out this simple biblical fact.
The Sabbath, the seventh day, the one on which God rested from all the work which he had done, is Saturday.
Sunday, on the other hand, is the first day of the week, the eighth day, the Lord's day, the day of resurrection, the day of the age to come.
One might be able to make an argument to restrict the observant Christian from work on Sunday, but its basis would not successfully be one of the ten commandments.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Lothiriel
Shipmate
# 15561
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
This isn't a literal transcript of the conversation. The last line, especially, was exaggerated for comedic effect. The theme remains though.
Did they say "communist", though? I'm doing a bit of myself after hearing someone say that the biggest problem in the Canadian Anglican church today is Marxism. Huh? People have to learn what communism/Marxism/socialism really mean before they bandy these terms about and display their ignorance (room temp IQs in CELCIUS!).
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If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea. St-Exupery
my blog
Posts: 538 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Mar 2010
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
The irony here is that this person wanted the Ten Commandments posted everywhere when he can't even bring himself to follow one of the simplest ones, and is in fact offended when I suggested doing it, e.g. the Lord's Day as a day of rest.
I don't want to bring down a pedant rain on your Hellish Parade, but somebody's gotta point out this simple biblical fact.
The Sabbath, the seventh day, the one on which God rested from all the work which he had done, is Saturday.
Sunday, on the other hand, is the first day of the week, the eighth day, the Lord's day, the day of resurrection, the day of the age to come.
One might be able to make an argument to restrict the observant Christian from work on Sunday, but its basis would not successfully be one of the ten commandments.
I was going to point that out but I figured that coming from an SDA it would be way too predictable.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Funny story about how those ten commandments got in our court houses in the first place: they were a promotional campaign for the movie the Ten Commandments.
Do tell. I can't wait to hear this one.
Here's the article.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
The irony here is that this person wanted the Ten Commandments posted everywhere when he can't even bring himself to follow one of the simplest ones, and is in fact offended when I suggested doing it, e.g. the Lord's Day as a day of rest.
I don't want to bring down a pedant rain on your Hellish Parade, but somebody's gotta point out this simple biblical fact.
The Sabbath, the seventh day, the one on which God rested from all the work which he had done, is Saturday.
Sunday, on the other hand, is the first day of the week, the eighth day, the Lord's day, the day of resurrection, the day of the age to come.
One might be able to make an argument to restrict the observant Christian from work on Sunday, but its basis would not successfully be one of the ten commandments.
I already realize that the Lord's Day is not the Jewish Sabbath, TSA. Good Lord, how fucking stupid and uninformed do you think I am?
Nonetheless, going back to the earliest of the early church (1st and 2nd centuries) we have the tradition of treating the Lord's Day as a day of rest, using the same principle behind the commandment about the Sabbath. As usual with the Old Testament Law, we disregard the legalistic aspects while retaining the spirit behind them.
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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Bostonman
Shipmate
# 17108
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
I already realize that the Lord's Day is not the Jewish Sabbath, TSA. Good Lord, how fucking stupid and uninformed do you think I am?
Nonetheless, going back to the earliest of the early church (1st and 2nd centuries) we have the tradition of treating the Lord's Day as a day of rest, using the same principle behind the commandment about the Sabbath. As usual with the Old Testament Law, we disregard the legalistic aspects while retaining the spirit behind them. [/QB]
You might be interested in N.T. Wright's Scripture and the Authority of God, in part of which he argues quite convincingly that any injunction to rest on Sunday is based on a misinterpretation of scripture. In the early church, they didn't have Sunday off and couldn't rest; getting up early to worship before a long, hard day of work was a sign of dedication. You'll have to excuse me for not having a page citation for that one.
Saturday is still the day of rest for many of us, although we're blessed to have a two-day weekend. See e.g., the (1979 TEC) BCP collect for Saturday morning:
"Almighty God, who after the creation of the world rested from all your works and sanctified a day of rest for all your creatures: Grant that we, putting away all earthly anxieties, may be duly prepared for the service of your sanctuary, and that our rest here upon earth may be a preparation for the eternal rest promised to your people in heaven; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen."
Posts: 424 | From: USA | Registered: May 2012
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bostonman:
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
I already realize that the Lord's Day is not the Jewish Sabbath, TSA. Good Lord, how fucking stupid and uninformed do you think I am?
Nonetheless, going back to the earliest of the early church (1st and 2nd centuries) we have the tradition of treating the Lord's Day as a day of rest, using the same principle behind the commandment about the Sabbath. As usual with the Old Testament Law, we disregard the legalistic aspects while retaining the spirit behind them.
You might be interested in N.T. Wright's Scripture and the Authority of God, in part of which he argues quite convincingly that any injunction to rest on Sunday is based on a misinterpretation of scripture. In the early church, they didn't have Sunday off and couldn't rest; getting up early to worship before a long, hard day of work was a sign of dedication. You'll have to excuse me for not having a page citation for that one.
Saturday is still the day of rest for many of us, although we're blessed to have a two-day weekend. See e.g., the (1979 TEC) BCP collect for Saturday morning:
"Almighty God, who after the creation of the world rested from all your works and sanctified a day of rest for all your creatures: Grant that we, putting away all earthly anxieties, may be duly prepared for the service of your sanctuary, and that our rest here upon earth may be a preparation for the eternal rest promised to your people in heaven; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen." [/QB]
Well that's nice if you're a protestant, and actually N.T. Wright is by far my favorite protestant, but Catholics have to follow Church traditions, too, and it's a longstanding tradition to treat Sunday as a day of rest, though not as legalistically as the old Jewish Sabbath.
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
Quickest way to tweak someone's ire -- say something in conversation that causes him/her to have to actually think about their presuppositions and defend his/her position on a matter.
As for Unreformed's inner-city students... Heaven forbid s/he should teach something or post up something on the bulletin board, that might cause them to actually think about their presuppositions and defend their positions on a matter.
(eta cocked eyebrow)
[ 16. July 2012, 21:19: Message edited by: Janine ]
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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Janine:
Quickest way to tweak someone's ire -- say something in conversation that causes him/her to have to actually think about their presuppositions and defend his/her position on a matter.
In order to have the light bulb moment you describe, you actually have to listen to and care about what other people have to say. If you are so uncivil as to to bust up to people at Sunday morning coffee hour to talk about controversial topics, chances are you are no more civil when it comes to listening to others.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
I already realize that the Lord's Day is not the Jewish Sabbath, TSA. Good Lord, how fucking stupid and uninformed do you think I am?
As I write, the jury is still out. I'm not sure why though, given all the evidence.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Nonetheless, going back to the earliest of the early church (1st and 2nd centuries) we have the tradition of treating the Lord's Day as a day of rest
I'm thinking that it would be not so early, but more nearly Constantine and the 4th century, but never mind; it's really more about tradition and less about the fourth—or is it third?—commandment. quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
how fucking stupid and uninformed do you think I am?
Dunno. It's too early to tell. But, I am encouraged that you think that Christians ought to choose not to shop on Sundays. Good on you for thoughtfully rebutting your Anonymous Parishioner. quote:
from the Catechism:
2187 Sanctifying Sundays and holy days requires a common effort. Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day. ... Employers have a similar obligation toward their employees.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Janine:
Quickest way to tweak someone's ire -- say something in conversation that causes him/her to have to actually think about their presuppositions and defend his/her position on a matter.
In order to have the light bulb moment you describe, you actually have to listen to and care about what other people have to say. If you are so uncivil as to to bust up to people at Sunday morning coffee hour to talk about controversial topics, chances are you are no more civil when it comes to listening to others.
Yeah, this.
And pardon me, but throwing up a bunch of rules nobody can really argue with on a chalkboard is not "challenging someone's ideas", it's a placeholder for an ethical discussion that is not taking place. In order to challenge someone's ideas, you need to first find out what those ideas are, and challenge them from where they are at.
Having said that-- a broad discussion of the 10 C'c, throwing in Hammurabi, The Babylonian Empire and the works, might actually rock some teen's world. But as a beacon of holy reminder shining forth from the wall, or a lawn? Come on. Don't treat my faith like a four-leaf clover.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
I'm thinking that it would be not so early, but more nearly Constantine and the 4th century, but never mind; it's really more about tradition and less about the fourth—or is it third?—commandment.
Nope, it started in the late 1st or early 2nd Century. Constantine did make it mandatory for everyone (even pagans) but this was not a case of Christianity ripping off paganism, but the reverse. It was already a popular day of rest by the time he did that.
To an earlier poster--I did not get called a Communist outright, however, it was strongly suggested that I hate capitalism and "freedom".
Hail free market, full of grace ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Nope, it started in the late 1st or early 2nd Century.
Right, second time around, this is proof by assertion.
Now you need a cite.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Nope, it started in the late 1st or early 2nd Century.
Right, second time around, this is proof by assertion.
Now you need a cite.
Read From Sabbath to Lord's Day by D.A. Carson. He convincingly establishes that Sunday worship and rest as a kind of alternative Sabbath was near-universal among Christians well before Constantine.
[ 17. July 2012, 00:05: Message edited by: Unreformed ]
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
No, I'm not going run out to my local library and pick up From Sabbath to Lord's Day (1982) by D.A. Carsonto and read it to make your case for you.
Sketch out his argument; otherwise, it's still proof by assertion.
[ 17. July 2012, 00:11: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
No, I'm not going run out to my local library and pick up From Sabbath to Lord's Day (1982) by D.A. Carsonto and read it to make your case for you.
Sketch out his argument; otherwise, it's still proof by assertion.
Fine.
Very briefly, there is no known record of any Christian group early on that did not observe Sunday with the exception of one sect of extreme schismatic weirdos.
That's as much as I'll do for you.
[ 17. July 2012, 00:17: Message edited by: Unreformed ]
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
And when he says "early", he means 1st and 2nd Century "early".
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Hail free market, full of grace ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
Fixed.
(And P.J. presumably thanks you for the straight line! "The free market is ugly and stupid, like going to the mall; the unfree market is just as ugly and just as stupid, except there is nothing in the mall and if you don't go there they shoot you.")
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I was gonna say, dude, that last crack would have the Adventists spelunking your anus.
(crosspost- responding to "extreme schismatic weirdos">)
[ 17. July 2012, 00:26: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I was gonna say, dude, that last crack would have the Adventists spelunking your anus.
(crosspost- responding to "extreme schismatic weirdos">)
Even the Adventists would be loathe to claim the sect I'm talking about as their spiritual ancestors, I think. I can't remember the name off the top of my head but it was a group of extreme Judaizers in one part of North Africa who rejected St. Paul as apostate.
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Well that's nice if you're a protestant, and actually N.T. Wright is by far my favorite protestant, but Catholics have to follow Church traditions, too, and it's a longstanding tradition to treat Sunday as a day of rest, though not as legalistically as the old Jewish Sabbath.
Interesting variation of the Nuremberg Defence.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
Interesting variation of the Nuremberg Defence.
Really, Orfeo, really? Are you serious or did you just want to Godwin the thread? Not shopping on Sundays is like gassing Jews?
[ 17. July 2012, 01:00: Message edited by: Unreformed ]
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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Fuff
Apprentice
# 14655
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Posted
Even more interesting when one realises DA Carson is a Protestant scholar, or perhaps one of those Baptists who don't believe they are Protestant.
Posts: 22 | From: UK | Registered: Mar 2009
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fuff:
Even more interesting when one realises DA Carson is a Protestant scholar, or perhaps one of those Baptists who don't believe they are Protestant.
I think he's Reformed. I purposely avoided using a Catholic source. If Sunday worship and rest could be proved to be an invention of Constantine (why is it ALWAYS Constantine? Why not Theodosius I? Or some Pope?) and a pagan rip-off, they'd be the first ones to jump on it, trust me.
[ 17. July 2012, 01:17: Message edited by: Unreformed ]
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
...trust me.
Oh, Lord.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
quote:
Interesting variation of the Nuremberg Defence.
Really, Orfeo, really? Are you serious or did you just want to Godwin the thread? Not shopping on Sundays is like gassing Jews?
No, I'm quite serious. I considered going with a quote from Cyprian about how a tradition without truth merely makes something an ancient error rather than a new one, but either way I find the "even if you could prove to me it was wrong, it was what I was told to do by an authority so I'll go ahead and do it" line of argument utterly fascinating and bewildering.
I don't actually have a strong stake in which is the correct day for resting, it's the argument that got my attention rather than the conclusion.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I was gonna say, dude, that last crack would have the Adventists spelunking your anus.
(crosspost- responding to "extreme schismatic weirdos">)
I personally have no desire to get anywhere close to Unreformed's anus, even with ropes, harnesses and lights.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Hokay...let's review the bidding.
First we have the assertion that properly following the 3rd/4th commandment enjoins the Christian to make Sunday a day of rest.
Then there is a shift from the bible as the basis to the assertion that from the 1st and 2nd centuries there was a tradition of treating the Lord's Day as a day of rest, blowing by what the documentary evidence from the 1st (or even 2nd) century might be.
Finally, we ditch concern with the 3rd/4th commandment enjoining Sunday as a "day of rest" and wind up with the anodyne assertion that "there is no known record of any Christian group early on that did not observe Sunday with [one] exception."
But, don't get me wrong, I don't think anything should get in the way of divine service on the Lord's Day, especially servile work. And, shopping on the Lord's Day is pretty dodgy.
I'm done here.
[ 17. July 2012, 16:15: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I don't care.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Personally, I don't think God does either. The Sabbath is a gift God gave us, celestial permission to spend time recharging and re-creating, God-commanded so we aren't even allowed to feel guilty about doing it. I don't think he cares if we do that on Tuesdays, as long as we do it. It's just like communion; we are really good at taking a abundant gift from God and turning it into something we can whack each other over the head with.
And orfeo, I'm thinking you should take Brother Unreformed under your wing and teach him the ways of the Ship; he kinda reminds me of you when you were a knee-high Apprentice. Just a tiny bit. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Personally, I don't think God does either. The Sabbath is a gift God gave us, celestial permission to spend time recharging and re-creating, God-commanded so we aren't even allowed to feel guilty about doing it. I don't think he cares if we do that on Tuesdays, as long as we do it. It's just like communion; we are really good at taking a abundant gift from God and turning it into something we can whack each other over the head with.
And orfeo, I'm thinking you should take Brother Unreformed under your wing and teach him the ways of the Ship; he kinda reminds me of you when you were a knee-high Apprentice. Just a tiny bit.
I would prefer that Tuesday were to be the day of rest. It's a nothing day. Monday's pain has passed but we aren't far enough into the week to look forward to the weekend. There's never anything on the telly, precious little live entertainment, no football (too close to the weekend) and now that there isn't a rest day, no Test cricket either.
As for Unreformed s/he is a bit bumptious. Few acquire any credibility in under six months but many lose any such chance in six posts.
[ 17. July 2012, 18:55: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
And orfeo, I'm thinking you should take Brother Unreformed under your wing and teach him the ways of the Ship; he kinda reminds me of you when you were a knee-high Apprentice. Just a tiny bit.
Oh my God, really? What are you trying to do to my self-image? Are you THAT upset about the dinner dance?
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
The dinner dance was a turning point in your general palatebility, my darling. If you can get the calendar date recorded, you should do so.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Kelly Alves: quote:
Personally, I don't think God does either. The Sabbath is a gift God gave us, celestial permission to spend time recharging and re-creating, God-commanded so we aren't even allowed to feel guilty about doing it. I don't think he cares if we do that on Tuesdays, as long as we do it. It's just like communion; we are really good at taking a abundant gift from God and turning it into something we can whack each other over the head with.
I dunno. I seem to remember that capital punishment was in order for those who dared work on the Sabbath.
Exodus 31:12-14: quote:
12 And the Lord said to Moses, 13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."
Or as I paraphrased it in The Bible Non-stop: Exodus: quote:
"Do you remember the Sabbath day? Do you keep it holy? Keep it holy: forever. This is an important part of the Deal -you know, your Covenant with me. No work on the Sabbath, zip, nada. I didn't work on the Seventh Day. Even I, I-AM-IN-VARIOUS-TENSES-WITH-YOU, know how to take a break. You don't work on the Seventh Day. Unless you want to rest permanently, six feet under. You are going to be rested and refreshed every week, dammit. I see a lick of work, heads are going to roll!"
![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I stand by my statement.
Most people understand the difference between "Honor your father and mother" and the instructions to stone a kid who sasses you, right?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I would prefer that Tuesday were to be the day of rest. ... no football (too close to the weekend)
Eh? There are evening matches on pretty much every Tuesday of the season.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Patdys
Iron Wannabe
RooK-Annoyer
# 9397
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I stand by my statement.
Most people understand the difference between "Honor your father and mother" and the instructions to stone a kid who sasses you, right?
Little bastards move too fast for my likin'
That's why I use gravel.
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Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.
Posts: 3511 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I would prefer that Tuesday were to be the day of rest. ... no football (too close to the weekend)
Eh? There are evening matches on pretty much every Tuesday of the season.
Don't know about European competitions - some Champions (and their rich mates) League matches are on Tuesdays - but there are just three Tuesdays on which Premiership matches take place: three on 27th November, a full program on 1st January (which doesn't count, as it's New Years Day) and six on 29th January.
I'll be working late most Tuesdays, unless we've invited people for dinner.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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