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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Fucking Cameron and the West Coast Main Line
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Today Virgin Trains have lost the franchise for the WCML, and it has been given to First Group. This is the company that runs my local line, so I have previous with them.
The reason First Group have obtained the franchise is that they offered more money than Virgin for it. So Fuckface Cameron has sold this to the highest bidder. Bastard.
How are First going to raise this extra money? They say it is through increased capacity - which Virgin somehow missed seeing. The truth is, they will raise prices, cut back on spending, including wages, and hope that it works - yes the passengers are expected to pay. More of us will have to use the service.
I have already blogged about the fucked up nature of our train financing, but this makes me incandescent. Yes, I am actually glowing here.
If the FCC experience is anything to go by, the service will significantly deteriorate, the prices will go up, and people will look back on the wonderful days of Virgin trains. First Group have been publicly vilified for their incompetence in running train services. Despite this - despite the significant evidence that they are completely incapable of running a public train service - the government still awards them franchises. Because they offer loads of money.
Fuck the lot of them, greedy, selfish bastards. I am going to drive more.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Since, based on the title shown on the main page, this thread is about a male fucking some bloke named Cameron, shouldn't it be placed into the Dead Horses forum?
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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hilaryg
Shipmate
# 11690
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Posted
It's utterly bonkers.
The East Coast Main Line is still under government ownership because the last franchisee promised to make large payments to the Government, but couldn't do it so handed over the keys and walked away. How on earth is this going to turn out any different?
Posts: 261 | From: back home in England | Registered: Jul 2006
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Virgin got the franchise previously on exactly the same basis and the government (like, us) have spent billions subsidising the line they operated to provide more sweaters for the bearded wonder.
There's an argument for monopolies in the public interest, but on the basis of cost and benefits over the last twenty years, this is no better than PFI.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Bartolomeo
Musical Engineer
# 8352
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Posted
From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail..
From: over there, now over here
From: The inner recesses of my twisted brain
So what continent are we talking about here then? I'm trying to figure out how outraged I should be.
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"Individual talent is too sporadic and unpredictable to be allowed any important part in the organization society" --Stuart Chase
Posts: 1291 | From: the American Midwest | Registered: Aug 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Loquacious beachcomber:
Since, based on the title shown on the main page, this thread is about a male fucking some bloke named Cameron, shouldn't it be placed into the Dead Horses forum?
Nope - it's about some bloke called Cameron fucking (up) a Virgin.
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
This will be going on until they nationalise it again. My money's not on that happening any time soon so I guess we'd better get used to it... ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
First will be last. The blesséd virgin is no more. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Loquacious beachcomber:
Since, based on the title shown on the main page, this thread is about a male fucking some bloke named Cameron, shouldn't it be placed into the Dead Horses forum?
Nope - it's about some bloke called Cameron fucking (up) a Virgin.
You do realize, though, that the result of your posting on this thread was a Famous Last Post of "Fucking Cameron and Boogie."
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
Post it there then, dipshit.
Let me help you with that sig:
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No longer Siver faux... ...still no clue.
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bartolomeo:
From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail..
From: over there, now over here
From: The inner recesses of my twisted brain
So what continent are we talking about here then? I'm trying to figure out how outraged I should be.
Information from the Catbox,
West Coast Main Line: London to Glasgow via Crewe and Carlisle - UK
[ 15. August 2012, 19:50: Message edited by: Darllenwr ]
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
First will be last. The blesséd virgin is no more.
I don't necessarily think that Virgin have been doing a divine job. Just that my experience with First Group is that they make most other TOCs look responsible and competent.
And yes, until the rail service is treated as a national asset and put into government hands, it will always be fucked up.
After two weeks of real uplifting events, and proof that as a country, we can be pretty awesome, this is a reminder that we still have a greedy, fuckwitted bastard running the country.
Come the revolution, we will need a fucking big wall.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
If the FCC experience is anything to go by, the service will significantly deteriorate, the prices will go up, and people will look back on the wonderful days of Virgin trains.
We've got FGW down here and Cross Country replaced Virgin the last time the franchise was up for grabs. Nobody shed any tears. The only thing any of us nostalgically hark back to with Virgin Trains is the buffet car (those wonderful hot smoky bacon paninis and a coffee really brightened up a cold winter's morning journey). That was scrapped to make space to store no less than 3 bicycles (book in advance) and the buffet car replaced with a bog-standard trolley which mostly can't get through the overcrowded aisles and doesn't do hot food.
FGW haven't been too bad in this area. They even brought in some Adelantes for the morning commutes during the Olympics, I can't say I'm complaining as it was a delightful change from the usual dirty little Turbos.
What are you expecting to have happen? We're all getting bruising fare hikes next year. Most trains are overcrowded. Many routes suffer from delays and cancellations at short notice. (I sometimes think if they took the freight trains off the network entirely for a day we'd really notice a difference in punctuality, as we often seem to be stuck waiting for slow-moving freight trains or engineers trying to rescue broken-down ones.)
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
And yes, until the rail service is treated as a national asset and put into government hands, it will always be fucked up.
Was it not fucked up when it was nationalised?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
And yes, until the rail service is treated as a national asset and put into government hands, it will always be fucked up.
Was it not fucked up when it was nationalised?
If public money had been put into it during nationalisation as has been put into it since it has been run for private profit, it wouldn't have been 'fucked up'.
I'm not making this up either, see this from Which showing that public funding is up from £2.3bn in 1993-4 to £5.2bn in 2008-9 (at 2008-9 prices), and that it hasn't been well spent either. Unless you're a rail contractor that is.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
My experience with Virgin has been uniformly positive - never a train late.
Delighted to hear that both your journeys were so successful.
I commuted with Virgin for several years and as far as punctuality went, the only thing I could be sure of was that I'd arrive at my destination within 24 hours. Cancellations of the morning train were frequent, in the evening it would arrive on time about once every 7 days then, exhausted by the effort, just turn up when it felt like it.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
They even brought in some Adelantes for the morning commutes during the Olympics, I can't say I'm complaining as it was a delightful change from the usual dirty little Turbos.
If you're talking about the Worcester-Oxford-Paddington line, they're here to stay. Well, for as long as anything is on the modern railway anyway.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
It will go the way of East Coast, you mark my words.
There is no way the Government (any government) could allow a situation where a major train operator went bust one day and there were no trains the next. If profits are coming in, that's nice for the company and its shareholders; if they are making a loss, they just step away and the taxpayer steps in.
This just goes to prove that the concept of a 'privatised' railway system is a nonsense. It is a public service (like the NHS) and ought to be run as such. BR was doing a good job just before the Major cock-up, despite tiny subisidies compared to the present.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If public money had been put into it during nationalisation as has been put into it since it has been run for private profit, it wouldn't have been 'fucked up'.
That wouldn't happen though. The only reason it happens under privatisation is because the government is tied to franchise contracts that force it to pay out - take the railway back into public ownership and its funding becomes subject to the whims of whoever happens to be Chancellor at the time.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
They even brought in some Adelantes for the morning commutes during the Olympics, I can't say I'm complaining as it was a delightful change from the usual dirty little Turbos.
If you're talking about the Worcester-Oxford-Paddington line, they're here to stay. Well, for as long as anything is on the modern railway anyway.
Here in the North-west we've still got Pacers!!! Those horrible little tin buses on rails that are supposed to have a 40-year life span; so we are stuck with them (at least until they electrify).
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Here in the North-west we've still got Pacers!!! Those horrible little tin buses on rails that are supposed to have a 40-year life span; so we are stuck with them (at least until they electrify).
I am familiar with Pacers, though as one who doesn't have to use them on a regular basis (any more) I have the luxury of seeing them as an amusing novelty rather than a blasted hell.
But if the recent HLOS comes to pass, they'll be gone from the network (yea, even from Northern Rail) by 2019. Be of good cheer!
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If public money had been put into it during nationalisation as has been put into it since it has been run for private profit, it wouldn't have been 'fucked up'.
That wouldn't happen though. The only reason it happens under privatisation is because the government is tied to franchise contracts that force it to pay out - take the railway back into public ownership and its funding becomes subject to the whims of whoever happens to be Chancellor at the time.
Sadly, you're right. The combination of third-rate negotiating on the government's part and the bias of the Conservative and Labour parties towards the motor lobby has left the railways a very poor relation since WW2.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
But if the recent HLOS comes to pass, they'll be gone from the network (yea, even from Northern Rail) by 2019. Be of good cheer!
Fortunately they should be gone from here once the L & M electrification is complete. But not from S Yorkshire evidently, even though they will no longer comply with accessibility regulations.
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Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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aumbry
Shipmate
# 436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
This will be going on until they nationalise it again. My money's not on that happening any time soon so I guess we'd better get used to it...
I have no idea whether this is an economically viable franchise but the government cannot win either ways: if it charges too little for the franchises then everyone moans that they are giving money away to the train operating companies and if the operators pay more as in this case then people say the service will suffer.
But if you are in favour of re-nationalisation then the prospect of the franchisee (sp?) failing and the system reverting back to state ownership must be a positive development.
Anyway any development on the railways that is deplored by both Richard Branson and Bob Crow must have something going for it.
Posts: 3869 | From: Quedlinburg | Registered: Jun 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Fortunately they should be gone from here once the L & M electrification is complete. But not from S Yorkshire evidently, even though they will no longer comply with accessibility regulations.
The ones in S Yorkshire should be replaced by the Sprinters/Turbos that are replaced by new electric stock in the Thames and Welsh Valleys, East Midlands and Lancashire.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
There is no way the Government (any government) could allow a situation where a major train operator went bust one day and there were no trains the next. If profits are coming in, that's nice for the company and its shareholders; if they are making a loss, they just step away and the taxpayer steps in.
This just goes to prove that the concept of a 'privatised' railway system is a nonsense. It is a public service (like the NHS) and ought to be run as such. BR was doing a good job just before the Major cock-up, despite tiny subisidies compared to the present.
It is certainly why the concept of a profit-making privatised utility is a nonsense. Profits and shareholder dividends etc are justified as a reward for risk, but if the private sector company can walk away in the event of losses it means that the profits and risks have been separated with the profits privatised but the risks retained in the public sector.
This is possibly most blatant with water where the Water Industry Act places a duty on Ofwat to ensure that the water and sewerage companies can not only finance their functions but make a reasonable return on capital. In other words the law says that the operators must be allowed a profit but that the ultimate financial risk should be placed on customers through their bills, rather than on investors.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
Posts: 2314 | From: Croydon | Registered: Dec 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
My experience with Virgin has been uniformly positive - never a train late.
Delighted to hear that both your journeys were so successful.
I commuted with Virgin for several years and as far as punctuality went, the only thing I could be sure of was that I'd arrive at my destination within 24 hours. Cancellations of the morning train were frequent, in the evening it would arrive on time about once every 7 days then, exhausted by the effort, just turn up when it felt like it.
My frequent trips with Virgin were all long distance. I think they are more punctual because short-distance runs make way for therm and end up getting even more delayed.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
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Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
My frequent trips with Virgin were all long distance. I think they are more punctual because short-distance runs make way for therm and end up getting even more delayed.
My twice-daily trips were on trains that mostly did the cross-country route starting in Bournemouth, Newcastle or Scotland. I wasn't on them for the entire journey, obviously, but they were almost always late. So much so that some of us used to rely on this as giving us some leeway if we ourselves were late getting to the station. Cross Country has been noticeably better in this regard.
Before I started commuting I used to think that rail travel was fun and not really problematic, too. You do when you don't have to do it, the day is your own, and the odd hiccup is just that – the odd hiccup.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Cross Country has been noticeably better in this regard.
Really?
The Cross Country service from Manchester to Bournemouth is the one train that I can always guarantee will be late and incredibly crowded. Meanwhile my local Virgin trains (Birmingham to Euston) seem pretty reliable.
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
I frequently catch the Virgin Cross Country trains for Brockenhurst to Reading or Oxford journeys. They are invariably late, over-crowded and filthy/untidy. As often as not one of the toilets is u/s and three times in the last month the return service from Oxford in the early evening has reeked of vomit.
When I used to commute daily from Westbury to Paddington (between 1996 and 2004 - straddling privatisation: BR before, FirstGW after) the trains were rarely delayed, they were overcrowded from Reading inbound and to Reading outbound but were usually spotlessly clean. The service and punctuality improved at privatisation, as did the attitude of the staff. Friend who still do that commute confirm that it is much the same, with the exception that the perimeter for overcrowding is now at Newbury.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
I frequently catch the Virgin Cross Country trains for Brockenhurst to Reading or Oxford journeys. They are invariably late, over-crowded and filthy/untidy. As often as not one of the toilets is u/s and three times in the last month the return service from Oxford in the early evening has reeked of vomit.
Cross Country hasn't been operated by Virgin since 2007. It's gone quite a considerable distance down the pan since Arriva took over, not least because of their policy of stripping out the onboard shop and most of the tables so they could cram in more airline-style seats.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
My only experience of Cross-country has been the Birmingham-Oakham segment of the Stansted service. Not noticeably unpunctual (on the very few occasions I have used it), but slow, and inflexibly small trains which make overcrowding a problem. First Trans-pennine is similar in that respect. And with nearly two hours from Liverpool to Leeds compared to only just over two hours for Liverpool-London with Virgin, which is more than twice the distance.
Of course most of the problems are down to infrastructure and the restrictive policy on building new trains, rather than the operating companies. But the whole system stinks.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
This and Marvin's post, above, just go to show how mileages vary. I like Arriva Trains Wales' cheap and cheerful service. They are, in fact, my favourite train company. OK, admittedly that just makes them the best of a bad lot - but they have a good online booking service and the staff are, on the whole, helpful and friendly in a keeping it real kind of way (none of this "Good Morning, Ladies and Gentleman, I am your train manager today" crap).
Admittedly, my impression of Cross Country is less favourable; I had no idea that they belonged to Arriva. But let's not criticise apples for not being pears - haven't Cross Country and First Trans-Pennine taken on services which are supposed to be slow? They're stopping trains, in effect, as opposed to the ones that are supposed to be be Express (ha,ha) services.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
My only experience of Cross-country has been the Birmingham-Oakham segment of the Stansted service. Not noticeably unpunctual (on the very few occasions I have used it), but slow, and inflexibly small trains which make overcrowding a problem. First Trans-pennine is similar in that respect. And with nearly two hours from Liverpool to Leeds compared to only just over two hours for Liverpool-London with Virgin, which is more than twice the distance.
Of course most of the problems are down to infrastructure and the restrictive policy on building new trains, rather than the operating companies. But the whole system stinks.
I have a copy of Railway Magazine from 1973 announcing improved services on the Trans-Pennine route! I reckon the problem is that it isn't an A to B route at all but the vast 'spider' of services which all, AFAICT, use the one route between Leeds and Manchester. To the west trains come from Crewe, Liverpool, Blackpool and Barrow while to the east they run to places as far apart as Cleethorpes, Hull, Scarborough, Middlesborough and Newcastle. I'm sure there are others and there are dozens of other sizeable towns on those routes. I'm not surprised it isn't a great service and designing and operating efficient services on all those routes needs to be co-ordinated, rather than treated as 'Liverpool to Hull via Manchester & Leeds (with a few add-ons)'.
Nevermind trains, I think we need more routes over or through them there hills.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
My experiences of the First Group services are that over their worst winter, my trains were late, delayed, crowded, early-terminated every day for 2-3 months. Both ways.
Even in their better periods, they would be late or delayed at least once a week, often more. They were always crowded, and I would never get a seat.
The trains were/are dirty and too hot/cold. The customer service was appalling. And if they were late - up to 2 hours, on a 25 minute journey - they would pay me back £3. If I applied, and it was accepted.
Sorry, but for all Virgins failings, First are primarily about making profits for the shareholders. Anything that costs money, and so eats into the profits, is cut back. So running a service was not their prime aim. They even had a special hate site
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
I frequently catch the Virgin Cross Country trains for Brockenhurst to Reading or Oxford journeys. They are invariably late, over-crowded and filthy/untidy.
Yes. Getting a seat is a problem on Cross Country, they never used to be this crowded (but that has something to do with the re-timing of other connecting services, there's a distinct drop in passenger numbers when they're late), the trains are dirty and all the rest of it. Of course they're subject to delays - but what I'm saying is, they don't seem to be as badly delayed as when they were run by Virgin. There used to be entire weeks where I would be either late in to work or late home almost every day, and I don't mean 10 minutes late, I mean something like an hour or so. I'd have been grateful to be 10 minutes late.
Anything going through Reading is always going to be a pain and crowded, same for Birmingham. They really need to put extra carriages on. There have been nights when I've travelled home in the vestibule with as many as 13 people (and on one occasion that and a large dog) crammed into it, and I don't mean the corridor-with-toilet vestibule, I mean the small ones. The overcrowding part of it hasn't improved at all and is noticeably worse.
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Yes, I can get that as a free perk of my season ticket but I can't be bothered fighting my way through the overcrowded aisles to evict someone from "my" seat after a day at work.
BBC article about Virgin Trains. I'd forgotten about the toilet doors.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Sorry, but for all Virgins failings, First are primarily about making profits for the shareholders. [/URL]
And other train companies are in it out of a generous compassion for humankind?
It's a bit of a distraction, which operating company is better or worse than another. The essential problem is the cack-handed way the whole privatisation was handled, and the fact that it isn't really privatisation anyway because the government retains the upper hand. It only proves that 'private' enterprise running public services is a nonsense and an impossibility.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
It will go the way of East Coast, you mark my words.
There is no way the Government (any government) could allow a situation where a major train operator went bust one day and there were no trains the next. If profits are coming in, that's nice for the company and its shareholders; if they are making a loss, they just step away and the taxpayer steps in.
But presumably that would be the last time they won any franchise bid. I would be surprised if any new bidding terms would let any such past firm come back. If First were to risk defaulting on their commitments, it would probably mean that the UK's biggest transport firm would very soon go belly up.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Molopata The Rebel:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
It will go the way of East Coast, you mark my words.
There is no way the Government (any government) could allow a situation where a major train operator went bust one day and there were no trains the next. If profits are coming in, that's nice for the company and its shareholders; if they are making a loss, they just step away and the taxpayer steps in.
But presumably that would be the last time they won any franchise bid. I would be surprised if any new bidding terms would let any such past firm come back. If First were to risk defaulting on their commitments, it would probably mean that the UK's biggest transport firm would very soon go belly up.
If First group went tits up, it would disappear off the radar, only to rise again as a new entity and bid, no doubt successfully, as the new company would be entirely separate from the one that had failed. Same people at the top, same shareholders, but that's the way capitalism works - the liabilities of those who have most to gain are legally limited, while the interests of customers, staff and suppliers, are way down the list.
It's a shame scripture doesn't address the ethics of limited liability.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Jen.
Godless Liberal
# 3131
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Here in the North-west we've still got Pacers!!! Those horrible little tin buses on rails that are supposed to have a 40-year life span; so we are stuck with them (at least until they electrify).
I am familiar with Pacers, though as one who doesn't have to use them on a regular basis (any more) I have the luxury of seeing them as an amusing novelty rather than a blasted hell.
But if the recent HLOS comes to pass, they'll be gone from the network (yea, even from Northern Rail) by 2019. Be of good cheer!
My commuting line is served mainly by pacers. The best experience on them was one winter when each time the door opened at a station it stuck to the outside of the train. the people nearest the door were asked to kick the doors to free them each time. I've never seen a train full of people in hysterics before...
RE: Virgin and the west coast main line - is it not just the laws of economics? Virgin won the line however many years ago as the offered the most competitive deal (more money, greatest rewards for government etc)I suspect, so surely it seems fair for another company to have a go at the same thing? What penalties are there for failure to provide an adequate standard of service?
J
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Was Jenny Ann, but fancied being more minimal.
Posts: 5318 | From: Manchester, England | Registered: Aug 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Sorry, but for all Virgins failings, First are primarily about making profits for the shareholders.
And other train companies are in it out of a generous compassion for humankind
No, but some of the others put customer service higher up their list of priorities. Making a profit is not wrong as such, but making it at the expense of the customers is.
And I would agree that the core problem is the way the railways are managed and the privitisation structure. It means that bastards like First Group can come in and rip off the passengers with government sanction. And while they continue to keep paying the government loads of money, they can get with pretty much anything else they want to.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Just read that it cost Branson £14 million to put in his bid for virgin to run that line.
If that is what this 'healthy competition' costs, guess who is picking up the tab?
Bring back nationalisation. Now.
That is exorbitant. It is more money that comes to of the railways. I presume First spent a similar amount? Or maybe they just sent an email to the relevant minister with an inducement, and that was all it took.
The system is broken. The current government - and the previous one - persist it. We, the rail travellers, suffer.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Just read that it cost Branson £14 million to put in his bid for virgin to run that line.
If that is what this 'healthy competition' costs, guess who is picking up the tab?
Bring back nationalisation. Now.
Constructing contract bids: now there's a business to be in. I'd say '£7m for you, £7m for me and we can decide amongst ourselves who gets the contract: see you in Rio'.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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