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» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » No, Mark Betts, I am not going to leave it (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: No, Mark Betts, I am not going to leave it
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Back over here on the western fringes of Europe, we had suffragettes. Many of them weren't single, but they were beaten, imprisoned, force-fed and one even died for the cause. And because of them, my grandmothers, mother, wife and daughter have the vote.


Yeah, but according to Berwickshire and his little clique these would've been the evil liberal westerners of their time. Imprisoned, force-fed, death? To pharaphrase Berwickshire these women got what they deserved. Right? [Disappointed] How dare they say 'can't we have an input in how our lives are ruled?', when the regime has already told them what they should be thinking.

As Mark Betts would undoubtedly have told them, back then, why don't you go home and look after your children. (Because of course they would've been married, and of course they would've had children. And also because of course women would've received the vote without the agitation and publicity and suffering for their cause. Once someone had got round to it.... [Roll Eyes] )

It's moments like these remind me - sadly - of how much work authentic feminism still has to do.

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
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quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
It's moments like these remind me - sadly - of how much work authentic feminism still has to do.

Don't set your sights too high. No matter how well they are educated, some people will always be dickheads.

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Last ever sig ...

blog

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Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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In my work I have a fair bit to do with people from Russia. Their views on the matter of Pussy Riot and the reaction of the state to them are as far away from the views of the arrogant (and in Mark's case sexist) gobshites standing up for state repression as those same arrogant gobshites are far away from Russia.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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Mark Betts

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Just supposing... that the women weren't that interested in the Church, nor politics, they just wanted to latch onto something people felt strongly about (one way or another) in order to shock and outrage, to promote their own publicity and make them famous.

Just supposing... that Putin nor the Church could influence the outcome of the trial, and the court reached it's own decisions.

Just supposing... that the reason Putin became President again was because that was what the majority of russian citizens wanted.

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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

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Doublethink.
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When you find that parallel universe, do let us know.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Josephine

Orthodox Belle
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
Just supposing... that the women weren't that interested in the Church, nor politics, they just wanted to latch onto something people felt strongly about (one way or another) in order to shock and outrage, to promote their own publicity and make them famous.


Well, if that's what they wanted, the government seems to have decided to help them out. If it hadn't been for the trial, the video would have gone viral in Russia for a few weeks, until the next new thing made everyone forget about it. Neither you nor I nor anyone else I know would ever have heard of Pussy Riot.

quote:
Just supposing... that Putin nor the Church could influence the outcome of the trial, and the court reached it's own decisions.

Just supposing... that the reason Putin became President again was because that was what the majority of russian citizens wanted.

That would make an excellent alternative history. Why don't you suggest it to Harry Turtledove?

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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!

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cosmic dance
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quote:
Just supposing... that the reason Putin became President again was because that was what the majority of russian citizens wanted.

Surely you are not that politically naive?? There have been and still are many governments around the world who are in power by means of coercion, corruption and the rule of fear; or simply because the populace is powerless in despair or poverty and there is no viable option. I'm not saying Russia is one of them because I don't know enough about it but you must admit that from time to time, governments are not there by majority vote.

[ 19. August 2012, 22:36: Message edited by: PeteC ]

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"No method, no teacher, no guru..." Van Morrison.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
That would make an excellent alternative history. Why don't you suggest it to Harry Turtledove?

HA!

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Mad Cat
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
Just supposing... that the women weren't that interested in the Church, nor politics, they just wanted to latch onto something people felt strongly about (one way or another) in order to shock and outrage, to promote their own publicity and make them famous.

If they wanted to be famous, wouldn't they take off the mad balaclavas?
quote:

Just supposing... that Putin nor the Church could influence the outcome of the trial, and the court reached it's own decisions.

Yeah. But I'm still trying to imagine a bunch of people being arrested for doing a rubbish song in Saint Paul's. So whatever influences are at work in the Russian state, it gives me the creeps.

(And also, rogue apostrophe. If you're going to talk shit, kindly punctuate correctly.)
quote:


Just supposing... that the reason Putin became President again was because that was what the majority of russian citizens wanted.

Like the abused goes back to the abuser.

Your opinion of Pussy Riot notwithstanding, you're a sexist pig. Coming back with 'Yous guys are just liberal' doesn't cut it. Sexism is unjust and un-Christian, and politics doesn't come in to it.

Ill-judged comments like yours normalise poor treatment of women in ever part of the world. It makes it okay for an employer to pay me less to do the same jobh as a less-well qualified man. It makes it okay for families to bully their daughters into marriage. It makes it okay for college tutors to say, as one did to my friend: "why do you want to go to college? You'll only get married and have a family."

Wanker.

[ 19. August 2012, 21:46: Message edited by: Mad Cat ]

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Weird and sweary.

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QLib

Bad Example
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
My main concern was that the young women should have stayed at home and looked after their children, rather than go out causing mayhem and offence, knowing that they might be arrested and separated from their children. ...
My only modification is to add that the same should apply for fathers if they go out and do such things, just for publicity and fame.

I'm sorry Ken if this makes me a nasty person in your eyes ...

It makes you a dickhead in pretty much everyone's eyes. And all that phoney handwringing "my only concern is for the children" shtick, isn't fooling anybody.

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
My main concern was that the young women should have stayed at home and looked after their children, rather than go out causing mayhem and offence, knowing that they might be arrested and separated from their children. I know some of you think they are modern day "holy fools" but I don't buy that.

My only modification is to add that the same should apply for fathers if they go out and do such things, just for publicity and fame.

I've prettymuch said all this already, but this is where I stand and always did.

I'm sorry Ken if this makes me a nasty person in your eyes, just because you seem to hate any church which doesn't conform to your open evangelical/liberal standards.

I have no idea whether you're a nasty person in general or not. But your words in the offending post were objectively nasty, sexist and ill-considered. This offends humans in general, male, female, other. It is seen that you wish to modify or take back what you said in wiggly wormy manner. It is also seen that people are looking for something more straightforward, less wormy, wiggly and less exculpatory, because it was so plain what you originally posted. You have tried any number of angles, from "dads too" to "liberal". You could close this all up if you did what normal people do, just own up. The owning up needs to either be that you admit you're wrong, or that you admit you're sexist and a worm, and that you like yourself that way.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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Curiosity killed ...

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Mark Betts, you obviously don't know or don't remember that there were huge protests in Russia following the elections that put Putin in power. The Russians I know from other internet boards are very, very careful what they post and are often absent and struggle to stay in contact (there are quite a few on 365 project)

We're talking huge recorded protests in December 2011, May 2012 - see wikipedia I'm really not sure you can assert that the Russian people wanted Putin.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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Actually, I agree with the sexist gobshite on that point. Putin did get a large share of the vote, and even if one takes probably dodginess into account he would still have won. (Not to make out that Putin is any good, but the opposition in Russia includes racist leaders, something not often reported in the west.)

Just to be clear here, I'm no liberal. I based my views above from an article written in a far-left German magazine.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:

Just supposing... that Putin ...could influence the outcome of the trial, and the court reached it's own decisions.


If Putin couldn't influence the courts do you suppose for one moment he would ever have been interested in being elected President or Prime Minister? In succesfully blurring the distinction between the two roles he has shown just how committed he is to democracy.

The whole Pussy Riot trial begins and ends with Putin's ego, and he has allied himself with some in the church to that end. His KGB training shows through.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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The Silent Acolyte

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# 1158

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quote:
Originally posted by Scarlet:
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Buttz:
Please leave it, because I already know what the consensus on this board is about such things.

More on point Mark Betts, is the consensus on this board that when Josephine calls you to Hell you have crossed a clearly demarcated line of decency.
I've no interest in this particular hell call, one way or the other. But you can count me right out of that purported "consensus"...
Add me to the list. I am dearly allergic to being incorporated without having given consent.
Consensus, conschmensus:  You two can sue my rhetorical ass.

Never having been accused of sucking up to the in-crowd, my point stands.

Mark Betts still ought to step back.

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Porridge
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# 15405

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Out of curiosity, Mark Betts, what's your opinion of the two single moms on my staff?

The work can be risky in a variety of ways: our clients may have hepatitis, HIV, and assorted other transmissable ills that we don't always know about (and yes, bodily fluids come with the territory, though we do issue gloves, masks, and other paraphrenalia to protect staff).

Clients' disabilities, frustrations, and/or medications can sometimes make their behavior unpredictable and occasionally violent. The work entails risk of injury and illness, and, if working with folks who need assistance transferring from chairs to bed or cars to walkers, etc., can wear staff down physically over time.

Out of concern for the well-being of their children, should I advise these women to seek work elsewhere?

Or should I perhaps -- having informed them of the risks they run and trained them to handle these -- assume they're adults capable of making their own responsible decisions and Plan B arrangements?

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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

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gorpo
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I would be inclined to think a woman who participates in a protest like that cares very much about her children-- and what kind of world they grow up in.

I think it´s actually hilarious when people compare protesters like this to Jesus, or even Gandhi and Martin Luther King.

To not agree with the sentence is one thing, but to act as if they are martyrs or had done a great act of love to humanity is just incredibly naive.

Anyway, their goal to make their protest visible has been achieved.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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Who compared anybody to any of the people you are listing?

The hyperbole sword cuts both ways, you know.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Demas
Ship's Deserter
# 24

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Who compared anybody to any of the people you are listing?

In fairness, I did mention Gandhi and Jesus in the same sentence as Pussy Riot up in the depths of Purg.

I was responding to Mark's argument that the only plausible reason for Pussy Riot to have protested in a way which would lead them to being arrested was that they selfishly wished to become famous.

My point was not that Pussy Riot were Gandhi-like or Jesus-like, except in the narrow sense that they are all people who have been arrested for non-violent protest. (Actually out of the three, Jesus is the one who was the most violent in a place of worship. But then again, I suppose he was justly punished by the authorities for the offence he gave.)

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They did not appear very religious; that is, they were not melancholy; and I therefore suspected they had not much piety - Life of Rev John Murray

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Who compared anybody to any of the people you are listing?

Its kind of weird. There is almost genuinely no dialogue on any of the three or four threads here kicked off by the Pussy Riot protest and trial.

"Berwickshire" is obviously c0oming from some sort of pre-determined political position, his or her posts vary from political statements of some kind of party line to free-association rants (I think I've written enough of both kinds of text in the last forty years or so to recognise them when I see them). Without other evidence I would assume the vile things Berwickshire has written were quite deliberate and intended to make readers angry.

Mark Betts looks like a sadder case. Unlike Berwickshire he doesn't seem to be on a crusade, and he posts sense on other topics, but on this one he doesn't seem to engage with what others say at all, even to disagree with it. Its as if he doesn't read the posts he replies to or else genuinely doesn't understand what anyone else is saying to him. So there is no argument, no replying to points, just repeated missing the point. And he gives the impression that the really doesn't know how insulting he has been.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Timothy the Obscure

Mostly Friendly
# 292

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The main thing they have in common is a sympathy with authoritarianism (not necessarily to say totalitarianism) in both politics and religion. Mark's been very consistent about this over time, and Berwickshire is new but pretty explicit--he misses those old Eastern European dictatorships. The "Kinder, Kirche, Kuche" bit is just a corollary.

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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
  - C. P. Snow

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Demas
Ship's Deserter
# 24

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Without other evidence I would assume the vile things Berwickshire has written were quite deliberate and intended to make readers angry.

Yes, there's a nasty gleeful tone to them.

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They did not appear very religious; that is, they were not melancholy; and I therefore suspected they had not much piety - Life of Rev John Murray

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anoesis
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quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
I think it´s actually hilarious when people compare protesters like this to Jesus, or even Gandhi and Martin Luther King.

To not agree with the sentence is one thing, but to act as if they are martyrs or had done a great act of love to humanity is just incredibly naive.

Anyway, their goal to make their protest visible has been achieved.

Two things:

Firstly, it is entirely possible to say that Pussy Riot are acting in the tradition of these historical figures without saying that they are comparable in stature to them. Only time will tell us that.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure I remember that each of Jesus, Gandhi and King attracted a certain amount of negative comment at the time they were alive and engaging in subversive action, some of it no doubt in the form of sneering at their irrelevance in the great sweep of history. In fact, there were probably some in the crowd gathered around the cross who said 'well, he was asking for that, wasn't he, so really, he got what he deserved'...

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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Without other evidence I would assume the vile things Berwickshire has written were quite deliberate and intended to make readers angry.

He's not engaging with people here at all. I imagine he's found all the web debates he can on this topic and is posting exactly the same on them too.

Anyone who calls people 'vermin' is unlikely to engage in any worthwhile discussion with others imo.

He won't be here long.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Mark Betts

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# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Actually, I agree with the sexist gobshite on that point. Putin did get a large share of the vote, and even if one takes probably dodginess into account he would still have won. (Not to make out that Putin is any good, but the opposition in Russia includes racist leaders, something not often reported in the west.)

Just to be clear here, I'm no liberal. I based my views above from an article written in a far-left German magazine.

Thankyou Rosa Winkel. I need make no further comment.

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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

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# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Anyone who calls people 'vermin' is unlikely to engage in any worthwhile discussion with others imo.

He won't be here long.

I agree that such terminology is unwise, especially on here. But hey, this is supposed to be MY Hell thread!

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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

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Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
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Whiny little sexist bastard, aren't you?

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Even more so than I was before

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Anyone who calls people 'vermin' is unlikely to engage in any worthwhile discussion with others imo.

He won't be here long.

I agree that such terminology is unwise, especially on here. But hey, this is supposed to be MY Hell thread!
Ooops - sorry!

I think you are misguided Mark Betts - but I wouldn't have called you to hell.

I see you as an adolescent who will learn better.

I think the Berk will get his own hell call if he stays around ... but, as I said, that's very unlikely. Looks like a one topic crusader type to me.

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

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# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I would be inclined to think a woman who participates in a protest like that cares very much about her children-- and what kind of world they grow up in.

I think it´s actually hilarious when people compare protesters like this to Jesus, or even Gandhi and Martin Luther King.

To not agree with the sentence is one thing, but to act as if they are martyrs or had done a great act of love to humanity is just incredibly naive.

Anyway, their goal to make their protest visible has been achieved.

My point exactly - why do I need to engage Ken, when others can see my point very clearly, while the likes of you have to view everything through liberal-revolutionary spectacles? What's the point in trying to explain to someone who is so blind and biassed that they are incapable of percieving that they might just be wrong?

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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
Out of concern for the well-being of their children, should I advise these women to seek work elsewhere?

Absolutely. Making sandwiches in the school canteen is the only sensible option.

Have I missed Mark's response to this post?...

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

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# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
Out of curiosity, Mark Betts, what's your opinion of the two single moms on my staff?

I hope you treat them well, and ensure they have adequate care for their children. They are not out trying to seek fame and publicity, and risking arrest which would seperate them from their offspring, are they?

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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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I think Mark Betts genuinely believes this stuff about women staying at home with the kids. It's kind of 19th century, but these views still have traction today, see sections of the Tory party. Yes, Kinder, Kirche, Kuche, is about it. (Sorry about the umlaut).

Berwickshire - I smell something living under a bridge. Do not feed.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Berwickshire
Shipmate
# 15761

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The arcane division of threads escapes me and this discussion seems to be straying back to the main theme. As I understood it, the purpose of the present Holy Inquisition was arraign a heretic on a charge of a heinous offence against the sacred canons established by all the holy martyrs, saints and prophets of feminism, to invite the pious faithful to vent their outrage and call the heretic to recant. Thanks to one of those lucky procedural breaks, Sub-Prefect Josephine of the Holy Office has decide to shut her pious ears to a second heretic, so that is bound to raise the average level of comprehension among the tribunal somewhat.

Post-Soviet society in the Slavonic lands operates at a level where men do the simple work and get the beetroot in and the women prepare the soup, the vastly more complex undertaking if it is to be done well. Just about the only thing Socialism has bequeathed to the west is the code of Political Correctness. The post-Socialist world considers itself well shot of it and so people cheerfully indulge in such naughtiness as Armenian or Jewish comments – Pussy Riot along with the rest of them. The fundamental charge here is that the heretic did utter the word “mother” when Political Correctness requires “parent” and so, two pages and eighty posts latter, here we are.

As it happens in the real world all three criminals were women and from a society which has its own expectations about gender roles for parents at home or, indeed, in the way they behave in church. For Russians the fact that a hooligan is a mother is the strongest possible grounds for leniency: here inequality works in favour of the perpetrators. Given that the popular Russian view is that these young punks ought to be home with their families, I am not sure that they would think our heresy hunters have much of a case.

Non placet.

Posts: 57 | From: Eastern Europe | Registered: Jul 2010  |  IP: Logged
Matt Black

Shipmate
# 2210

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Whilst agreeing with the OP and its subsequent supporters, I do have one slight quibble with the way certain parties in The Meedjah™ and Pussy Riot's celeb supporters have portrayed them: some (but not much admittedly) has been made of the motherhood aspect as if this should be some kind of mitigation in sentencing; surely to be consistent the issue of parenthood, if at applies at all in a case, should apply equally to accused fathers as well as accused mothers?

A minor niggle, but I raise it for the usual Hellions to pore over and tear to shreds as they see fit...

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
...[snip]...What's the point in trying to explain to someone who is so blind and biassed that they are incapable of percieving that they might just be wrong?

...mote...beam...

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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --

Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
QLib

Bad Example
# 43

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quote:
Originally posted by Berwickshire:
Just about the only thing Socialism has bequeathed to the west is the code of Political Correctness.

No. Right-wingers in the west who felt grumpy about having to refer politely to people of a different colour, gender, creed or sexual orientation (etc) labelled this movement "political correctness"; others began using the label somewhat ironically, and then it was picked up by people who didn't know any better. However, I suspect that you know as well as I do what a huge gap there is between the modern western PC and the old Soviet version. Indeed, one of the things that makes you so dislikeable as a poster is not so much your root opinions as your willingness to twist any which way you can to score points. For example, the continuing anti-semitism slur on Pussy Riot, which seems to turn on a less-than-obvious interpretation of one line that might be a reference to Felix Dzherzhinsky.

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
the likes of you have to view everything through liberal-revolutionary spectacles?

Shit! So that's my problem! Anybody know where they sell these? Can I get them in my prescription?

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784

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quote:
Originally posted by Berwickshire:
Were such things here as we do speak about?
Or have we eaten on the insane root
That takes the reason prisoner?

It would be easier to argue with you if you made any actual points. Ranting about Josephine is all good and well, but beside the point. You have attacked the "superficial clique" here in more than one post.

For some reason you believe we behave more like a Gemeinschaft when we are much closer to a Gesellschaft.

Either you came to the Ship with prejudices already in place, or you make judgements on the basis of little or no evidence. Neither alternative speaks well of your cognitive prowess.

If you came here to make a point, perhaps you should try to make your point using reason instead of sarcasm and mostly irrelevant cultural references.

Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
Out of curiosity, Mark Betts, what's your opinion of the two single moms on my staff?

I hope you treat them well, and ensure they have adequate care for their children.
Now, I'm confused. Suddenly it's the employer's job to ensure the children have adequate care?

I really get the impression that you think mothers are fundamentally incapable of making arrangements themselves for their children's care.

First there's the vague suggestion that Pussy Riot couldn't organise their child's welfare without being there themselves, and now it sounds as if employers have to organise their mommy-employees because the mommy-employees couldn't possibly manage this task themselves.

I can see the big boss man standing at the door and saying "now Mary, did you remember to drop Joey off at the creche on your way here?" and then Mary giggles and says "oopsie!"

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Now, I'm confused. Suddenly it's the employer's job to ensure the children have adequate care?

I really get the impression that you think mothers are fundamentally incapable of making arrangements themselves for their children's care.

First there's the vague suggestion that Pussy Riot couldn't organise their child's welfare without being there themselves, and now it sounds as if employers have to organise their mommy-employees because the mommy-employees couldn't possibly manage this task themselves.

I can see the big boss man standing at the door and saying "now Mary, did you remember to drop Joey off at the creche on your way here?" and then Mary giggles and says "oopsie!"

OK, I'm very sorry to have caused so much offence. Before I say anything else perhaps I should get it approved by yourself first, seeing as you are so much cleverer than I am. Maybe it's best if you just tell me what to say and I'll say it, then I won't offend anyone will I?

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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
Out of curiosity, Mark Betts, what's your opinion of the two single moms on my staff?

I hope you treat them well, and ensure they have adequate care for their children.
Now, I'm confused. Suddenly it's the employer's job to ensure the children have adequate care?

I really get the impression that you think mothers are fundamentally incapable of making arrangements themselves for their children's care.

Of course. Not just that, but the dozy mares are always going off and recklessly having accidents which make it impossible for them to properly care for their children, as is their duty. That's why their employers need to take good care of them, in case they accidentally brutally stab themselves with a butter knife.

You think I'm making this up? Why do you think so many people think it's so important to protect sharp corners of tables, cover electrical sockets, stop doors from closing suddenly on fingers and so on, just as soon as they have children? It isn't for the sake of the baby - they bounce. It's so that their mother can't get out of her rightful duty to care for the little buggers by having a terrible accident. Frankly, it's more than a touch irresponsible that they don't all live in padded cells, but that's namby-pamby liberalism gone mad for you.

Day after day, we see these modern, "liberated" mothers walking down the street, where they could be run over by a car, or beaten and left for dead by a mugger, or abducted by aliens. And when that happens, what will become of the children? Won't someone please think of the children????

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520

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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
Maybe it's best if you just tell me what to say and I'll say it, then I won't offend anyone will I?

If you lack the motivation or intellect to engage with the consequences of what you say and discuss the implications in a coherent way then perhaps it would be best to get prior advice.

[ 20. August 2012, 11:33: Message edited by: mdijon ]

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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon

Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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If you're not prepared to own your own words, that's entirely your problem.

EDIT: Snap!

[ 20. August 2012, 11:33: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
# 10422

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Berwickshire opined
quote:
Non placet
Please note that this is an English language board and that foreign languages are not permitted unless provided with a translation in the same post. This is a gentle reminder. Repeated offenders have been known to be banned.

PeteC
Hellhost


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Even more so than I was before

Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mark Betts

Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074

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I know! Why don't we all (mothers and fathers) just not bother about our children at all. Let's just hand them all over to the state to take care of, then we can go out and do what the hell we like! [Big Grin]

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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."

Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520

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Does not follow. Are you trying?

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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon

Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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Yes, he is. Very.

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Berwickshire
Shipmate
# 15761

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Hell’s bells. If the best line in intimidation is to pick up on this sort of thing people really are getting stuck. I know some folks are happier with Anglo-Saxon grunts but “Non placet” has been around long enough to be English – Oxford Movement and all that. I don’t know who is going to set himself up as the oracle as to what is or is not English but it is in English dictionaries. Despite its original form the phrase is English enough to be treated as a regular English noun and forms it plural by adding “s”. It is bound to be familiar to graduates of either of the universities. Or am I missing the real agenda?
Posts: 57 | From: Eastern Europe | Registered: Jul 2010  |  IP: Logged
moron
Shipmate
# 206

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quote:
Originally posted by Berwickshire:
I am not sure that they would think our heresy hunters have much of a case.

But they are ours, and cute to boot.

[Axe murder]

Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Berwickshire:
Hell’s bells. If the best line in intimidation is to pick up on this sort of thing people really are getting stuck. I know some folks are happier with Anglo-Saxon grunts but “Non placet” has been around long enough to be English – Oxford Movement and all that. I don’t know who is going to set himself up as the oracle as to what is or is not English but it is in English dictionaries. Despite its original form the phrase is English enough to be treated as a regular English noun and forms it plural by adding “s”. It is bound to be familiar to graduates of either of the universities. Or am I missing the real agenda?

Oh dear. A tip for newbies. When someone has HOST written in nice bold letters at the bottom of their post, that is an official ruling from the people that run the Ship.

Such a ruling is not part of the general Hell conversational free-for-all. If you must argue with it, go and do it in Styx. PeteC is not 'setting himself up as the oracle' here, PeteC is a duly appointed host who has just warned you about breaking Ship's rules.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged



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