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Source: (consider it) Thread: Football - Euro 2012
Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Really? I doubt the Czech Republic team's hotel is going to be a joyous place tonight. [Frown]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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pjl
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# 16929

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Interesting games last night, the star so far is the man u man.
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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Howard Webb?

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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pjl
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# 16929

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got it in one

[Biased]

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Jonah the Whale

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# 1244

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quote:
Originally posted by Jonah the Expert Football Pundit:
I've gone for revenge for the World Cup - Netherlands to beat Spain in the final

Doesn't look like such a smart choice now.

LeRoc, hope you found somewhere to watch it with like-minded folks. You aren't anywhere near Durban are you?

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Good game there today, but perhaps the subject for another thread.

And I've been working on a punchline about the Danes bringing home the bacon, but I can't quite phrase it right. [Biased]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Good game there today, but perhaps the subject for another thread.

And I've been working on a punchline about the Danes bringing home the bacon, but I can't quite phrase it right. [Biased]

Could you say that they didn't get 'clogged' up?

Germany v Portugal went the way of my earlier post. A couple of commentators suggested that they were fortunate in this game and will only improve.

[ 09. June 2012, 20:47: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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I'm gonna steal that line, if you don't mind. [Biased]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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rolyn
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Encouraging performance from the English .

The lack of hype surrounding the England team on this occasion is no bad thing .

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Encouraging performance from the English.

The lack of hype surrounding the England team on this occasion is no bad thing .

Let's keep the hype down. A few of our players looked drained by the end nd some will have to perform again on Friday. Dare we hope for a win against Sweden, all time draw specialists? They have been beaten by Ukraine and are to play France last so they might just change from playing five men back and five across the middle.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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An die Freude
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# 14794

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Sweden used to be draw specialists, but that coach left two years ago. Now, we have one who's supposed to prefer more creative play, yet that didn't really work out well tonight. One of our best journalists compared us tactically to Stoke, and I'm just about worried that might reflect unfairly on the Stoke:ians. We were rubbish, quite simply, against Ukraine.

Also, England's current coach started out his career in Sweden and is fluent in Swedish - he knows a lot about Swedish football and was one of those who formed modern Swedish football 30 years ago.

Still, we have Ibrahimovic. I gather he's not seen as that much of a star in the UK, but let me tell you this: he can turn any game upside down on less than half a chance. He's completely erratic and scores out of thin air. The goals are not that frequent, but they are usually spectacular. This may serve as proof (from the Euros 2004).

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Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH

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LeRoc

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quote:
Jonah the Whale: LeRoc, hope you found somewhere to watch it with like-minded folks. You aren't anywhere near Durban are you?
No, I'm in a part of Mozambique that's quite far from South Africa. I was going to watch the game with some Danish friends, but in fact I think I had some food poisoning. I spent all day in bed vomiting and didn't watch it at all.

Interestingly, all my Danish friends say that their win was undeserved. They are very sportsmanlike.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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I hate to disagree, but Denmark's win was fully deserved for the simple reason that they scored more goals.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I hate to disagree, but Denmark's win was fully deserved for the simple reason that they scored more goals.

And they were playing the Netherlands. Any side playing the Netherlands gets my support.

[ 12. June 2012, 12:04: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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LeRoc

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Err... I was trying to give the Danish fans a compliment. Whatever.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Imaginary Friend

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Oh I know. And I was trying to suggest that they didn't need to be so self-deprecating.

[Smile]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Err... I was trying to give the Danish fans a compliment. Whatever.

Many, many years ago I heard the term Total Football in connection with the emergent Dutch football team: Johann Cruyff and all that.

I watched them play a few times and it was clear that one element of this totality was that they were all as hard as nails. Think Leeds United under Don Revie playing in bright orange. Neeskens kicked Kevin Keegan off the park in one match. Sure they could then and still can play good football, but this fundamental flaw runs through Dutch football. We expect Argentinians and Italians to be dirty b******s but not such peaceful people as the Dutch (unless their ancestors left Europe three hundred years ago and now play rugby instead).

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shamwari
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I posted this on a thread now closed due to duplication. My bad.

The first round is almost done and dusted.

What a bore. Most teams are so frightened to lose that they defend at all costs. The TV pic of a man fast asleep was the perfect commentary.

Whats with football these days? Its like a game of slow motion chess. I counted 10 backwards and forwards passes for one team to get out of their own half of the field. The opposition simply refused to challenge but retreated into their own third of the field. A barrier of 9 ( sometimes 10 ) men man the barricades to prevent any shot at goal.

Boring.

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Sioni Sais
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No! Not boring! Certainly not in comparison with recent international tournaments. We've had some good football, some comical defending, less variable referring than is usually the case (may change) and one shock result plus two surprises ought of eight matches.

I've seen far, far worse. If there's a problem it is that the tournament of too compressed. And in the UK it's on terrestrial TV.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The lack of hype surrounding the England team on this occasion is no bad thing .

Let's keep the hype down.
The hype was the problem two years ago.

Everybody was disappointed by the lacklustre performance of England. Yet at the end of the competition their world ranking went up. Yes UP!

The problem was that the expectation was higher than the team merited. So the team performed less well than expected, but their ranking went up because they performed better than they were expected to do based on performance in past games.

So when you hear Adrian Chiles and his cohorts talking about England underperforming two years ago, as they did yesterday, they only underperformed in relation to the unrealistic expectations the fans were led to believe by pundits such as Adrian Chiles.

In relation to realistic expectations based on performance in games, which is what the world rankings are based on, England did quite well two years ago.

But it is typical of the pundits to blame a team for not living up to a standard which is nothing but a fairy tale in the pundit's imagination.

As for last night, they did fairly well. As did the French. Mistakes from both sides cancelled each other out.

I'm optimistic that England will do quite well again.

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Sir Kevin
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# 3492

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Blast! I missed it! Did watch the first half of the Netherlands v. Denmark, but it was dead boring and I had to leave for work...

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

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ken
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# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Balaam:
As for last night, they did fairly well. As did the French. Mistakes from both sides cancelled each other out.

England seemed to keep a very rigid defensive formation. Six or sometimes even eight players in a sort of grid pattern behind the ball all moving around together in parallel. It worked in that the French only got one goal - which with Nasri and Ribery attacking was pretty decent defending.

But they didn't seem able to build an attack, they often had no-one up front, and when they were lucky enought to break away they usually passed it back to the nearest French player in a display of uncharacteristically sportsmanlike behaviour. The main method of attack seemed to be pass it back to the goalie and run like hell the other way hoping that a big long boot will find a someone to cross it into the goal mouth and head it in. But for that to work someone actually has to be far enough forward to go for it. And not offside.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Sir Kevin
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# 3492

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Well put, Ken. Sounds rather like some of the less successful Spurs matches this season.

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
We expect Argentinians and Italians to be dirty b******s but not such peaceful people as the Dutch.

Have you ever seen Dirk Kuyt play (in either orange or red)?!

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
We expect Argentinians and Italians to be dirty b******s but not such peaceful people as the Dutch

As well as supporting my home town team I also support Newcastle Utd.

Ruud Gullit was manager a number of years back. He turned one of the most exciting attacking teams in the leage into one of the dirtiest. Dutch football doesn't seem to know what fair play is.

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rolyn
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quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:

Boring.

I take it you weren't around to watch international football in the 70s ?

Often the ball would be passed back the full length of the pitch to a goal-keeper who then spent 5 mins rubbing it with his gloves .
He would eventually proceed to kick it up pitch, only for the whole process to be repeated if the attack was going nowhere.

Now that *was* boring.
[Snore]

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
We expect Argentinians and Italians to be dirty b******s but not such peaceful people as the Dutch.

Have you ever seen Dirk Kuyt play (in either orange or red)?!
Yes. He was on the bench for the Netherlands, but runs his socks off when he does. A shame that for every player like him there are three like Nigel de Jong.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Og, King of Bashan

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# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The main method of attack seemed to be pass it back to the goalie and run like hell the other way hoping that a big long boot will find a someone to cross it into the goal mouth and head it in. But for that to work someone actually has to be far enough forward to go for it. And not offside.

Funny, I thought that was how the English method of attack always worked. Surely Peter Crouch wouldn't have 42 caps in another system.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The main method of attack seemed to be pass it back to the goalie and run like hell the other way hoping that a big long boot will find a someone to cross it into the goal mouth and head it in. But for that to work someone actually has to be far enough forward to go for it. And not offside.

Funny, I thought that was how the English method of attack always worked. Surely Peter Crouch wouldn't have 42 caps in another system.
Would that be the Peter Crouch that has scored 22 goals in those 42 games? Few players score more than a goal every two games, and he's not that good in the air!

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Really? I think he's a thug. [Smile]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Really? I think he's a thug. [Smile]

Crouch? Not in Stoke City terms. He's physical and at 6'7" many are scared of him but Everton put Heitinga or Jagielka on him and have few problems on the 'physical' side of things.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Oops - my mistake. I was replying to your post about Kuyt. [Hot and Hormonal]

Nah, Crouchy's just gangly and clumsy, not vindictive. And he likes it played into his feet, don't you know. [Biased]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Og, King of Bashan

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# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Nah, Crouchy's just gangly and clumsy, not vindictive.

That was always how I explained my foul-laden attempts at playing right back when I was 13 and already over six foot.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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LeRoc

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# 3216

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quote:
Sioni Sais: I watched them play a few times and it was clear that one element of this totality was that they were all as hard as nails.
Oh, I'll readily admit that Holland plays too rough at times, especially when they're losing and become frustrated. I still remember Van Basten kicking a Danish player into hospital in the semi-final of 92 [Hot and Hormonal]

I'm still hoping that we get a Holland x England some time in this tournament, I'd like to have a bit of friendly rivalry on this thread. But that seems to have become difficult now [Frown]

I'm not even sure if I'll have the stamina to watch the game against Germany today. We could be out of the tournament already...

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Jonah the Whale

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# 1244

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LeRoc:
quote:
We could be out of the tournament already...
Almost prophetic, but a 2-0 win over Portugal would still do it, as long as Germany beat Denmark.

Imaginary Friend: I completely disagree about Kuyt. I find him industrious, honest and non-flashy. Attributes which I think suited the Anfield fans and made him popular there. I'm sorry he's leaving.

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
LeRoc:
quote:
We could be out of the tournament already...
Almost prophetic, but a 2-0 win over Portugal would still do it, as long as Germany beat Denmark.

And if Denmark beat Germany by enough goals, Germany too could be going home! You'll get long odds for that though.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
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quote:
Jonah the Whale: Almost prophetic, but a 2-0 win over Portugal would still do it, as long as Germany beat Denmark.
Yeah, I know. But I have to admit it's a long shot. We watched the game with a half-German, half-Mozambican friend, but he supports for Holland [Ultra confused] In spite of the result and the relatively boring game, we still had a nice evening.

Sometimes, I think the Dutch public suffers from a just-not-good-enough-syndrome. I think for the last decades our team has done remarkably well for a small country, but we always seem to miss the big prizes (88 notwithstanding). In every tournament, the public seems have a feeling that this time we deserve to win that's sometimes a bit exagerrated.

I have a sense that some of this has passed on to the players, sometimes leading to over-confidence and arrogance, sometimes to agressiveness in games where Holland is threatened to go out of the tournament. I'm glad it didn't happen yesterday, but I fear it might happen on Sunday.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Og: Thread Killer
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# 3200

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Is this where I go to say I have no sympathy for Harry Redknapp?

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Yes it is. [Big Grin]

Apparently Roy sent him a text expressing support. That must have been salt in the wound. [Snigger]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Sometimes, I think the Dutch public suffers from a just-not-good-enough-syndrome. I think for the last decades our team has done remarkably well for a small country, but we always seem to miss the big prizes (88 notwithstanding). In every tournament, the public seems have a feeling that this time we deserve to win that's sometimes a bit exagerrated.

Replace the word 'Dutch' with 'English' and the statement is still true.

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Is this where I go to say I have no sympathy for Harry Redknapp?

Not sure about that. He has always appeared hamfisted, but it shows that the FA, for once, had their head screwed on when they weren't railroaded by the popular press into appointing 'arry as the England manager.

What next for a sixty-something workaholic?

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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Interesting article by the Secret Footballer about 'Arry. I tend to agree with the general sentiment that Redknapp is an effective manager for getting teams close to the big time but probably not the right guy for taking the last step. Cold, calculating decision by Levy, but probably the right one.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794

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quote:
Originally posted by Balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Sometimes, I think the Dutch public suffers from a just-not-good-enough-syndrome. I think for the last decades our team has done remarkably well for a small country, but we always seem to miss the big prizes (88 notwithstanding). In every tournament, the public seems have a feeling that this time we deserve to win that's sometimes a bit exagerrated.

Replace the word 'Dutch' with 'English' and the statement is still true.
Frankly, I'd disagree. England has not done remarkably well, because England is not a small country. England has about 50 million people. Italy has about 60, Spain about 45, Argentina about 40. Netherlands has about 15 million people, and Sweden about 10 million people, and I'd rank England as result-wise being somewhere between Sweden and Netherlands. I'd honestly say that England isn't getting what it should out of a population of that size considering that football is the main sport.

I'd like to add as a reservation that Sweden hasn't really been that much of an overachiever either - in comparison to the Danish and the Dutch, we're hopelessly behind. A Swedish journalist called today's meeting one between Sloppy Sweden and Boring England, yet one can always dream...*


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*See the Daily Mirror's version of the story.

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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH

Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
I'd honestly say that England isn't getting what it should out of a population of that size considering that football is the main sport.


That is wronger than a wrong thing that's mistaken. England's national sport is moaning. Below-par performance is a consequence.

If there's a country that punches above its weight it has to be Australia. A population of under twenty million plays like one four time that size.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
I'd honestly say that England isn't getting what it should out of a population of that size considering that football is the main sport.


That is wronger than a wrong thing that's mistaken. England's national sport is moaning. Below-par performance is a consequence.

If there's a country that punches above its weight it has to be Australia. A population of under twenty million plays like one four time that size.

Australia? In football, the sport where they changed continents because it was too difficult to qualify, just to see New Zealand do it next World Cup qualifications? Hmm...

I was about to discuss your first point, but then realized you may have proven it yourself. [Biased]

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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH

Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Really? I think he's a thug. [Smile]

Strange thing to say.

I've got no bother about that being said about, say, Skrtel (I wouldn't mind it if he was), but Kuyt? [Confused]

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
I'd honestly say that England isn't getting what it should out of a population of that size considering that football is the main sport.


That is wronger than a wrong thing that's mistaken. England's national sport is moaning. Below-par performance is a consequence.

If there's a country that punches above its weight it has to be Australia. A population of under twenty million plays like one four time that size.

Australia? In football, the sport where they changed continents because it was too difficult to qualify, just to see New Zealand do it next World Cup qualifications? Hmm...

I was about to discuss your first point, but then realized you may have proven it yourself. [Biased]

OK, this is a football thread, but for sport as a whole, Australia does better than it has any right to do.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Jonah the Whale

Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244

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England don't like to make it easy for themselves.
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794

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Sweden only play second halves.

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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH

Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
...the general sentiment that Redknapp is an effective manager for getting teams close to the big time but probably not the right guy for taking the last step. Cold, calculating decision by Levy, but probably the right one.

Remains to be seen. Crouchie leaving was certainly not helpful though.

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

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