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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
My guess would be, Greenhouse, that SH attracts the more conservatively inclined and that these would be the ones concocting the particular doctrinal statements presented to the LEP. It would not necessarily represent the views of the SH committee nor all those who attend the event itself - but I think it's fair to say that SH isn't going to attract dyed-in-the-wool liberals by and large ...

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Originally posted by Jude:
I've been to Spring Harvest a few times and really enjoyed it. However, I have only been in the past few years and probably wouldn't have liked it if I had gone in the old evangelical days. I like being able to go to different groups after the Bible study in the morning. I like the variety of seminars. I love going to the Alternative Worship, because the Big Top is not my thing. The Butlin's facilities and the beach are a great bonus. I like to go to the Sun And Moon and hear the gossip there.

In other words, I love Spring Harvest. But although the young kids' stuff seems like fun and the adults have loads of different ways to discover about God, I'm not too sure about the youth program, which is where mine will be next year. I don't think that the evangelical message is quite right. They've come back to their home church saying that you won't get to heaven unless you believe in Jesus (?!)

Because of this, I don't want to go to Spring Harvest for a few years, until they've grown up, which could mean that I miss out on some excellent lectures. i.e. Rob Parsons.

I'm confused ...

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Now I'm confused. I'd have thought anyone who went to SH would be going around saying that you can't get to heaven unless you believe in Jesus. That's one of the things that makes evangelicalism evangelicalism.

I'm not sure that SH is any less evangelical than it used to be. They may have added a few more bells-and-whistles and 'alternative' slots but I'd have thought the central ethos of it was pretty much mainstream evangelicalism. It used to occupy the middle-ground of UK evangelicalism at one stage - ie. not as charismatic as the restorationist Bible Weeks but more charismatic than many of the churches the regulars attended when not at SH or similar conferences ...

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Originally posted by Matt Black:
I would be surprised if the default position of SH was terribly 'open';

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Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:

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Originally posted by Jude:
I've been to Spring Harvest a few times and really enjoyed it. However, I have only been in the past few years and probably wouldn't have liked it if I had gone in the old evangelical days. I like being able to go to different groups after the Bible study in the morning. I like the variety of seminars. I love going to the Alternative Worship, because the Big Top is not my thing. The Butlin's facilities and the beach are a great bonus. I like to go to the Sun And Moon and hear the gossip there.

In other words, I love Spring Harvest. But although the young kids' stuff seems like fun and the adults have loads of different ways to discover about God, I'm not too sure about the youth program, which is where mine will be next year. I don't think that the evangelical message is quite right. They've come back to their home church saying that you won't get to heaven unless you believe in Jesus (?!)

Because of this, I don't want to go to Spring Harvest for a few years, until they've grown up, which could mean that I miss out on some excellent lectures. i.e. Rob Parsons.

I'm confused ...

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Maybe it's time for your children to learn that Christians don't always agree. Furthermore, this could be an opportunity for them to stand up for their beliefs. I once heard an Anglican vicar say that talking about religion with someone who holds different beliefs can be a very good way of clarifying what you yourself believe. Children need to learn how to be discerning and thoughtful, and the only way they'll do that is if they meet people who believe different things.

If your church has more inclusive teachings about who goes to heaven, then why should your children come back from their trip believing something very different? Why would they accept the beliefs of strangers but not the beliefs of their own preachers? One problem, I think, is that more liberal churches tend not to discuss these issues very much, leaving their congregations susceptible to the arguments used by more conservative Christians. The answer isn't to keep liberal churchgoers (young or old) away from conservative ones, but to help all congregations to think more deeply about what they actually believe.

Those are my thoughts, anyway.

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I’d agree with this. Things like SH are great for everyone if they want teaching on topics and issues that simply can’t be covered in most churches on a Sunday. And from the calibre of people who wouldn’t rock up at most churches. They’re also a good opportunity to learn new songs – even if all you learn is that you never want to sing that again! – and find new resources.

For children / young people, they’re a great way to discover, as someone else said, they’re not the only Christian in the village! That’s really important. It’s easy to assume that it’s just you and that church is some evil parental plot.

Unless you’re monitoring your children’s reading, viewing 24-7 and home educating them, you’re not going to be able to protect them from ideas that you don’t agree with. Strikes me as better to give them the tools to engage with them and make their own mind up.

If you accept the idea that we should be able to give a reason for the hope we have, then knowing how to discuss and argue faith / beliefs with others without channelling Stephen Green is an invaluable lesson. Part of that is learning that Christians don’t always agree about things. That the definition of a Christian is wider than someone who believes the same things as me … And that you can disagree with one another and still both be Christian. (Maybe if some grown-ups learnt that, the church might not get itself in such a lather about secondary issues and have more time to deal with the primary ones. But I digress … )

OTH, the teaching that you don’t go to heaven unless you believe in Jesus is pretty mainstream. And at SH, it’s what they told you in all the meetings when I went.

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Originally posted by Gill H:
Another one who remembers the 'newspaper' year. Was that 'Uncage the Lion'? Some good songs around then. And free Lion bars given out, as I remember.

I remember the 'newspaper' theme being explained not in terms of intelligence or political views, but in terms of the kind of presentation you enjoyed listening to/taking part in. I went to 'TV-AM' which was advertised as 'words and pictures' and involved lots of group work. It certainly wasn't the 'thickie stream', just a more interactive style of seminar.

SH was the place I learned that you could be evangelical and not creationist, or inerrantist. It's also where I rubbed up against lots of different kinds of Christian and spent long hours chatting and widening my views.

I remember when the 'Holy Spirit stuff' was kept to the late night seminars, so as not to frighten the horses.

It's 20 years since I've been, and the last few times I actually avoided the Big Top until the last few days as it wasn't lively enough until everyone had 'warmed up'!

I don't do New Wine, which most of my church does - partly because I'm cautious about some of the bandwagons which get jumped on, but mostly because I Do Not Camp. And we don't have a car, so a B&B is not an option.

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I think that it was "Uncage the Lion" - I still have the songbook.

On the subject of biblical inerrancy, I remember Roger Simpson's seminar on Biblical interpretation, which caused somewhat of a hoo-haa by challenging some evangelical shibolleths.

I also remember the late-night meetings, where us crazy charismatics could strut our stuff away from all the respectable types.

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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)

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Originally posted by pete173:
Yes, well, I think you'd be surprised. We deliberately ring the changes. The Exsultet on Easter Sunday morning. Prayer House for meditative prayer throughout the day. Cafe Church and other alternatives to Big Top Worship. Lectures and debates, not just seminars. A worship stream for sung worship leaders and liturgists to work together on what we think we're doing in Sunday worship. The Talk Zone, run by the agenda of the guests.

Nothing wildly radical compared with Greenbelt, but not exactly predictable with what people on this thread think we're like, born of experiences some years ago. And we go through every piece of guest and speaker feedback and evaluate what's said.

As you say, if you don't like big events, you probably won't attend. But I'd hate people to put us in the "been there, done that" box when they don't actually know what we're up to these days.

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Regionally, a charismatic bash at our diocesan Cathedral has been pulled due to lack of interest. Amongst the understandable disappointment among its supporters, I've detected a slight note of judgementalism insofar that they feel that people really ought to make the effort ...

I'm not so convinced there was a market for the event in the first place as the 'committed' charismatic types would already have their own networks/go to New Wine or attend one or other of the big conferences etc.

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Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
[QBWho'd want to attend a charismatic event at a cathedral?? I thought today's cathedrals were meant to be specialising in offering top quality high church forms of worship. (Or is that something else I've got hopelessly wrong about the CofE?)

But I can understand their disappointment and their judgementalism - I've certainly witnessed both of those things in my resolutely non-charismatic church experience. [/QB]

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
My own feeling is that there's no longer a market for this sort of thing. The charismatics have long since 'networked' themselves into their own connections and conferences

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Originally posted by Saul the Apostle:
Some of you may want to put your specs on and read this.....

http://www.birthpangs.org/articles/background/CharismaticRenewalinBritain.pdf

This sort of gives an overall look at charismatic/pentecostal development in the UK. Written by the Prinicpal of St John's in Nottigham Rev Dr David Hilborn ; I've just read it and the piece sort of puts the wider context in which Spring Harvest exists.

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This being a ''charismatic in recovery'' can be hard; because the nature of these groups is that they foster ''relationship'' and if you're IN you're OK, but if you're OUT you are sort of sent to the gualag (and Coventry) and sort of seen as some sort of pariah and reprehensible apostate; which I suppose is logical as ''their'' way of Christianity is the pinnacle of Christendom.

Quite frankly it's sh** and quite a long way from true acceptance in Christ; it is a form of power politics; a form of 'groupthink' and directive social psychology which penalises free thinking and wants to ensure conformity and ''honouring'' of the leadership - scary.

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Originally posted by Saul the Apostle:
I suspect there are a few of us out there, notwithstanding Gamaliel and myself, a number of us have maintained a solid faith in Christianity, yet find typical charismatic ''platform ministry'' glib, shallow and in my case loud (is there a correlation in higher volume and closeness to God?) and , the heart of it, for me, it doesn't focus on Jesus Christ and help foster my ongoing and hopefully deepening 'walk' with him.

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