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Source: (consider it) Thread: 103rd Bishop of Chichester
+Chrism
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Wonderful farwell service for Rt Revd John Hind as he prepares to retire as Bishop of Chichester as of tomorrow - Monday 30th April 2012.

Now in 3 weeks time the next Bishop of Chichester will be announced. From a source close to the whole process it is set to be a decent appointment which I'm quite excited about even though I'm not part of that Diocese.

Have any of your heard any other names going round?

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+In Nomine Patris Et Filio Sancti

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Charles Read
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Decent for whom?

And have you ever met any indecent bishops?

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Chorister

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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Read:

And have you ever met any indecent bishops?

Now that would make for an interesting thread....

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

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pete173
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Read:

And have you ever met any indecent bishops?

Only on reflection...

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Pete

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kingsfold

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Or perhaps in reflection? [Devil]
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pete173
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quote:
Originally posted by kingsfold:
Or perhaps in reflection? [Devil]

Precisely.

That Narcissus
Should take a missus
Was a notion he rejected
After he'd reflected.

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Pete

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+Chrism
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Congratulations to Bishop Martin Warner who has just been announced as the next Bishop of Chichester
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Augustine the Aleut
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Collectors of really obscure trivia will be pleased to know that Queen Elizabeth II has now appointed as many bishops of Chichester as did her predecessors Victoria & Elizabeth I. One more, and she'll hold the record.
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+Chrism
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Although this is still to be announced by Number 10 Downing Street but a clergy within Chichester who was close to the process announced this to me earlier today
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justlooking
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quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
Congratulations to Bishop Martin Warner who has just been announced as the next Bishop of Chichester

Another FiF? [Disappointed]
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+Chrism
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quote:
Originally posted by justlooking:
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
Congratulations to Bishop Martin Warner who has just been announced as the next Bishop of Chichester

Another FiF? [Disappointed]
I knew this was gonna happen as it even said in the Statements of Needs that there is sufficient reason why the next Bishop of Chichester should be someone who does not ordain women but they should have a suffragan who does.

I'm glad they've kept to the long tradition of Traditional Catholics such a Eric Kemp, John Hind now Martin Warner [Smile]

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FreeJack
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quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
Congratulations to Bishop Martin Warner who has just been announced as the next Bishop of Chichester

More of a leak than an announcement...
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Berwickshire
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Spare a thought for the disappointed Diocese of Europe who were all hoping (albeit for their different reasons) that Dr Rowell might get it: he is resident there after all and might, but for his age, have been the man to take over from his own predecessor here.
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justlooking
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quote:
I knew this was gonna happen as it even said in the Statements of Needs that there is sufficient reason why the next Bishop of Chichester should be someone who does not ordain women but they should have a suffragan
And do they have a suffragen who does? Horsham doesn't.

+Martin Warner used to write in the Church Times, as far as I can recall I usually found what he had to say interesting and helpful. Unfortunately, he looks very much like someone I loathe and it's hard not to project that person's unpleasant attributes onto him.

[ 01. May 2012, 18:30: Message edited by: justlooking ]

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+Chrism
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quote:
Originally posted by justlooking:
quote:
I knew this was gonna happen as it even said in the Statements of Needs that there is sufficient reason why the next Bishop of Chichester should be someone who does not ordain women but they should have a suffragan
And do they have a suffragen who does? Horsham doesn't.

+Martin Warner used to write in the Church Times, as far as I can recall I usually found what he had to say interesting and helpful. Unfortunately, he looks very much like someone I loathe and it's hard not to project that person's unpleasant attributes onto him.

No Wallace Benn doesn't ordain women but hopefully they'll appoint a new Bishop of Lewes who does
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StarlightUK
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quote:
Originally posted by justlooking:
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
Congratulations to Bishop Martin Warner who has just been announced as the next Bishop of Chichester

Another FiF? [Disappointed]
As one who is in the Diocese of Chichester I think it appropriate to wait until it is formally announced rather than rely on leaks from clergy who don't seem able to maintain such basic confidentiality. It isn't even on the diocesan website yet!
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justlooking
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Bit late now.
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+Chrism
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quote:
Originally posted by just looking:
Bit late now.

The announcement is due within the next few days so I hear most probably Thursday. Now the search for Whitby starts it's all too much
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justlooking
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We've gone and spoilt if for them haven't we? [Snigger]

So when's Wally Benn going? I thought he'd already gone. Any whispers about possible non-FiF replacements?

I went to a Midnight Mass in Brighton some years ago and the presiding priest was a woman - Mother Judith. I get the impression that many in Chichester are tired of FiF dominance.

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Honest Ron Bacardi
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quote:
I went to a Midnight Mass in Brighton some years ago and the presiding priest was a woman - Mother Judith. I get the impression that many in Chichester are tired of FiF dominance.
Anywhere with a priest of that name is by definition going to be out of sympathy with FiF, justlooking.

But wherever you go, the boss is always a bastard. It's the British way. The number of bishops from the liberal catholic and modern church parties is disproportionately higher than numbers of such parishes and there is a parallel resentment to that, often focused on those bishops personally.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

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Angloid
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quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
The number of bishops from the liberal catholic and modern church parties is disproportionately higher than numbers of such parishes and there is a parallel resentment to that, often focused on those bishops personally.

I query that. Of course for a long time there were few evangelical bishops, because the evangelical revival took a long time to filter through to the ranks of those eligible. But there seems to be a good balance now. And outside Brighton, parts of London and a few other places there are not many (compared to the noise they make) 'traditional' anglo-catholic parishes: I can't do the maths but I'd be surprised if they were more than 10% of the total. Apart from the 'flying bishops' there are several more who would represent these.

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Honest Ron Bacardi
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I think 10% sounds about right, Angloid, though for that I think they only have one diocesan, don't they? Con Evo's don't have any, and only 2 suffragans (if memory serves).

I am going by memory, so am open to correction with more recent statistics, but the number of pew-squatters self identifying as liberal catholics in the last wide-ranging survey I saw - around 4 years ago - was actually less than trad catholics, whereas the number of diocesans (don't know about suffragans) was more than any of the above.

Just for the record I personally disapprove of the whole partisan thing, of every flavour, and that extends to attitudes towards bishops based on partisan considerations. But I am hardly the first to remark on the numbers imbalance.

Your point about a time-lag in numbers of evangelicals is well-made.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

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Pyx_e

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Chances of a non-fif bishop in Chichester pre women bishops vote=slim. Anorexic even. Simple politics.

Don't want to scare the waverers.

AtB, Pyx_e

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Doc Tor
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quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
I think 10% sounds about right, Angloid, though for that I think they only have one diocesan, don't they? Con Evo's don't have any, and only 2 suffragans (if memory serves).

I think part of the argument why there aren't more ConEvo bishops is that they're seen, rightly or wrongly, as not being good at team games. If evangelicals get appointed, they're more more likely to hail from the Open/Charismatic streams.

I understand that things are kicking off in Southwark because the bishop is making appointments that are all liberal/catholic, and none from the sizeable evangelical community.

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Angloid
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I think the con-evos in Southwark shot themselves in the foot many years ago by refusing to co-operate with diocesan structures and keeping themselves isolated. Much as anglo-catholics did in many places in the past. Certainly the deanery I used to belong to operated perfectly happily despite (or perhaps because of) the absence of a couple of the evangelical clergy from most meetings. Whether that was our fault or theirs I don't know.

I suspect the vast majority of ordinary laity would not identify with any 'party' in the church. Partly because they have not undergone the particular theological formation that all priests from any part of the spectrum will have had. This has often led to narrowness of course, but more often simply clarifies views about where one stands on the sacramental/scriptural axis. The clerical equivalent of a MOTR layperson is more likely to be open evangelical or liberal catholic. Now that a majority of theological colleges are of the former flavour that will probably eventually be expressed in the relative proportions of bishops.

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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
Congratulations to Bishop Martin Warner who has just been announced as the next Bishop of Chichester

Brilliant - he is a lovely man, by all accounts. Though he opposes the OOW, he doesn't seem so vociferous about it and keeps to the mainstream.

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Comper's Child
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
Congratulations to Bishop Martin Warner who has just been announced as the next Bishop of Chichester

Brilliant - he is a lovely man, by all accounts. Though he opposes the OOW, he doesn't seem so vociferous about it and keeps to the mainstream.
He is indeed a lovely man and has a fine intellect.
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justlooking
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quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
quote:
I went to a Midnight Mass in Brighton some years ago and the presiding priest was a woman - Mother Judith. I get the impression that many in Chichester are tired of FiF dominance.
Anywhere with a priest of that name is by definition going to be out of sympathy with FiF, justlooking.......


I don't think she was the parish priest there - I think she'd been invited to preach and preside. I'd been there before and it's high AC. I had the impression a point was being made by the parish clergy.
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Thurible
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Though he opposes the OOW, he doesn't seem so vociferous about it and keeps to the mainstream.

Presumably part of the reason for a St Paul's canonry, a mitre, and a diocesan bishopric? They think he's tame.

Thurible

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Honest Ron Bacardi
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quote:
I don't think she was the parish priest there - I think she'd been invited to preach and preside. I'd been there before and it's high AC. I had the impression a point was being made by the parish clergy.
OK justlooking, understood - but I guess the point stands even at one remove.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

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justlooking
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Most of Chichester diocese seems to be out of sympathy with FiF. In 2008 the Telegraph reported:Bishop faces rebellion over women clergy.
quote:
Out of its 393 parishes, only 65 have stated that they would not accept a woman as their incumbent ......

Many priests and worshippers believed that the resignation of one of the two junior bishops - the Rt Rev Lindsay Urwin, the Bishop of Horsham - presents an opportunity for a shift in policy.

Yet despite promising to conduct a consultation on who should succeed Bishop Urwin, Bishop Hind told a recent meeting of key officials that he would maintain the status quo by appointing someone who will not ordain women.

If most of the laity and most of the clergy in Chichester are in favour of women priests why is it a FiF stronghold?
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Honest Ron Bacardi
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quote:
Originally posted by justlooking:
If most of the laity and most of the clergy in Chichester are in favour of women priests why is it a FiF stronghold?

Well, as I said earlier I don't believe there should be any reasons for any such thing. But my original interjection related to the rise and rise of partisanship and bishops who identify with such parties. That's the way it's getting played, and if lib. cath. types have played it more successfully than the other parties, then you can expect the others to start squeaking. I deplore it personally, but this is the sort of thing you should have expected when the game kicked off. It's not my game at all.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

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justlooking
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So +John Hind is running the diocese to suit his personal agenda.
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Honest Ron Bacardi
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If you replace "personal" with "party", then I suppose yes - and presumably that's what is happening in Southwark also. My point being that Chichester is part of a bigger problem. If you want to turn a blind eye to that, it's your choice. Anyway, not to gild the lily, I've made my point I'm sure.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

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The Man with a Stick
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quote:
Originally posted by justlooking:
Most of Chichester diocese seems to be out of sympathy with FiF. In 2008 the Telegraph reported:Bishop faces rebellion over women clergy.
quote:
Out of its 393 parishes, only 65 have stated that they would not accept a woman as their incumbent ......

Many priests and worshippers believed that the resignation of one of the two junior bishops - the Rt Rev Lindsay Urwin, the Bishop of Horsham - presents an opportunity for a shift in policy.

Yet despite promising to conduct a consultation on who should succeed Bishop Urwin, Bishop Hind told a recent meeting of key officials that he would maintain the status quo by appointing someone who will not ordain women.

If most of the laity and most of the clergy in Chichester are in favour of women priests why is it a FiF stronghold?
When I was in the Diocese (some time ago now), there was a feeling that you "didn't need" to pass the Resolutions, as the Bishop would not put a woman incumbent in, in any case. If that still holds (and it's really stupid reasoning, incidentally) those figures might be misleading.

If a liberal diocese has appointed a Trad-Cath bishop recently, then I might view things differently - but it's no surprise that the constituency is doing all it can to hold onto what it's got.

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Fifi
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And the 104th is announced here
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Amos

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Fascinating bit around 7.30 when the Archbishop of York tries to remember the prayer of St Richard of Chichester.

Good news that the new bishop is a 'people person' and has a passion for the arts.

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lowlands_boy
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quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Fascinating bit around 7.30 when the Archbishop of York tries to remember the prayer of St Richard of Chichester.

Good news that the new bishop is a 'people person' and has a passion for the arts.

I'm a Methodist and we're still bishop free, but why is it good for a bishop to have a passion for the arts?

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Angloid
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Because it suggests he's at ease with nuance and subtlety?

[ 03. May 2012, 10:46: Message edited by: Angloid ]

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Amos

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quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Because it suggests he's at ease with nuance and subtlety?

Absolutely!
And because of the legacy of George Bell.
I'm sure there are other reasons too.

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Angloid
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quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
[
And because of the legacy of George Bell.

and Dean Hussey of course.

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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Though he opposes the OOW, he doesn't seem so vociferous about it and keeps to the mainstream.

Presumably part of the reason for a St Paul's canonry, a mitre, and a diocesan bishopric? They think he's tame.

Thurible

I think he is humble - and holy.

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Amos

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I think his ideas about gender are completely dotty. But I know a fairly large number of young, male, CofE clergy who think he's a sweetie.

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Albertus
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Hmm. Is that necessarily a good thing?

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
I think his ideas about gender are completely dotty. But I know a fairly large number of young, male, CofE clergy who think he's a sweetie.

I am old, male and not clergy. What are these views about gender that he is supposed to hold?

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Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Amos

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# 44

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I thought you were acquainted with him, leo. Don't you know?

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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken

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venbede
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# 16669

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I don't know Martin Warner's views on gender. I think I saw him receive communion from a woman priest once, but I may have been mistaken.

It's really good news, to my mind.

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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.

Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011  |  IP: Logged
Lord Pontivillian
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# 14308

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quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I don't know Martin Warner's views on gender. I think I saw him receive communion from a woman priest once, but I may have been mistaken.

It's really good news, to my mind.

I wonder if it's such good news for the female clergy in my parish? It's good that he's willing to accept communion from Women but is it helpful that he won't ordain them?

[ 03. May 2012, 20:04: Message edited by: Lord Pontivillian ]

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The Church in Wales is Ancient, Catholic and Deformed - Typo found in old catechism.

Posts: 665 | From: Horsham | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Thurible
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# 3206

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quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I don't know Martin Warner's views on gender. I think I saw him receive communion from a woman priest once, but I may have been mistaken.

I'd've thought it unlikely that Bp Martin Warner, SSC, did so but I suppose one should never rule anything out.

Thurible

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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."

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Albertus
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# 13356

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quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
I thought you were acquainted with him, leo. Don't you know?

No, come on, don't drop these coy little hints. Are you suggesting that he is gay? (The bit about being thought a sweety, not the bit about dotty views on gender as such.)

[ 03. May 2012, 20:58: Message edited by: Albertus ]

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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.

Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged



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