Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Faith stories of the rich?
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Marvin the Martian: The Kingdom of Heaven as a monastic community? Wow, that really makes me want to be Christian.
Does me, and gives me equal parts of hope and despair.
Heaven? Eternal music transcending that of Bach performed by angelic choirs.
Hell? The same.
-------------------- Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Marvin the Martian: The Kingdom of Heaven as a monastic community? Wow, that really makes me want to be Christian.
Not.
Why is God such a fucking downer all the time?
Not God, just people's conceptions of God. I figure God made so much sex -- the birds and bees do it, even the flowers -- you bet there's sex in heaven, or whatever earthy sex is a pale reflection of.
Differences in wealth, however, I don't expect to see. That is, differences such as you have a wealth of talent on graphic arts, I have a wealth in music, someone else in storytelling, yes; but not the kinds of accumulations of wealth we have here.
If the lilies of the field thing is to be taken seriously, maybe intentional accumulation of wealth is proof you "don't get it"?
Not that I know how to measure what is "too much" accumulation. I have a friend who is "wealthy" by world standards if you look at raw dollars -- she has a job or two, owns a car and a cell phone. Rich lady!? But she is regularly homeless because her income is less than the rent for one small room in a house shared with strangers. Her car is her transportation to her jobs and her place to sleep. In this country it's illegal to build a bamboo hut in a field and live there tax free.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Steve H
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# 17102
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by cliffdweller: If all of us were to think like the Samaritan-- that nothing I have is mine but all of it is "on the table"-- available to be used by God however he leads-- the world would be a very different place.
No, it wouldn't - that's the standard excuse used by greedy, selfish, rich bastards who pretend to be Christians: "I know I own five mansions on three continents, a fleet of powerful cars, a private jet, and employ 30 servants, but it's all held in trust for the Lord to use as He sees fit!" What a load of bollocks. [ 21. May 2012, 11:13: Message edited by: Steve H ]
-------------------- Hold to Christ, and for the rest, be totally uncommitted. Herbert Butterfield.
Posts: 439 | From: Hemel Hempstead, Herts | Registered: May 2012
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cliffdweller
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# 13338
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Steve H: quote: Originally posted by cliffdweller: If all of us were to think like the Samaritan-- that nothing I have is mine but all of it is "on the table"-- available to be used by God however he leads-- the world would be a very different place.
No, it wouldn't - that's the standard excuse used by greedy, selfish, rich bastards who pretend to be Christians: "I know I own five mansions on three continents, a fleet of powerful cars, a private jet, and employ 30 servants, but it's all held in trust for the Lord to use as He sees fit!" What a load of bollocks.
I agree-- but that's not really "thinking like the Samaritan", is it? Because he didn't just say "oh, yeah, it's all God's" and then go ahead and use it as he saw fit. He really did put it all on the table-- making all of his resources available to serve a stranger in need.
Most of us are better at talking a good game than we are actually living out the truth of the gospel.
-------------------- "Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Waterchaser
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# 11005
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Posted
Indeed. Plus I am sure Christians in the west who own a house, car, computer and phone etc as a group own a far more significant proportion of the world's wealth in total than those with five mansions and a private jet.
Posts: 310 | From: Luton, UK | Registered: Feb 2006
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Waterchaser: Indeed. Plus I am sure Christians in the west who own a house, car, computer and phone etc as a group own a far more significant proportion of the world's wealth in total than those with five mansions and a private jet.
Yeah, I've noticed we (and by "we" I mean "me") tend to always compare ourselves upward, never downward, when defining "rich". As long as there's a few Warren Buffets and Bill Gates around we can think of ourselves as "middle class" because we don't have anywhere near their wealth. Once you travel to the developing world-- or even our own inner-city and rural communities-- it becomes increasingly harder to maintain that fiction, which is probably why we're far more comfortable in the suburbs.
-------------------- "Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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footwasher
Shipmate
# 15599
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Posted
Here're are some good examples of rich persons who have had experiences with the Gospel worth sharing.
The Pastor of the church I attended in London decided to be very literal in his interpretation of the Bible. He sold all he had, gave the proceeds to the poor and began to work in the inner city. Soon he had brought several people to the Lord and they formed a house church. The church bought him a house... which he promptly sold again, disposing of the proceeds as before! Now the church has rented a house for him, and pays for its rent every month!
A few months ago, this person came to our church. What is not mentioned in the story is that his father offered him a large sum of money to come back to Hinduism and threatened to cut him out of his will if he refused. His story is the exact same one of many others in Asia: from rich backgrounds, of priestly origin, and (this is very important), AND very passionate about seeking God. They remind me of Paul, zealous for Judaism (which many of the Pharisees were not) and active about stamping out heretical movements. Jay Smith records debates with sincere Muslim religious leaders who later became friends. His site is worth visiting.
quote: Originally posted by Belle Ringer: On another thread, SvitlanaV2 said quote: And the clergy love to use stories about poor but faithful/positive people (usually in the developing world) in their sermons. Wealthy men and women don't appear quite so often.
That got me thinking, what inspiring faith stories have I heard from the pulpit? One came immediately to mind, a woman who was financially wealthy but bedridden -- I've forgotten or never really know what, basically bedridden and in pain and yet positive in attitude for several years until she died, was periodically spoken of to us as an example of faith, but that was really a story of poverty even though of health rather than of money.
In other circles I've heard faith stories of the prosperity kind, "God gave me an idea for a business and it made me well off, yea God," but that's more likely "personal testimony" than pulpit chosen example of persistent faith for us to admire and imitate.
What kinds of "faith stories" inspiring to others to help them value God and trust God have you heard that have a rich person instead of a poor person as the topic? Is it harder for a rich person to be an living inspiration to others by the example of their life?
-------------------- Ship's crimp
Posts: 927 | From: pearl o' the orient | Registered: Apr 2010
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by footwasher: The Pastor of the church I attended in London decided to be very literal in his interpretation of the Bible. He sold all he had, gave the proceeds to the poor and began to work in the inner city. Soon he had brought several people to the Lord and they formed a house church. The church bought him a house... which he promptly sold again,...
I often wonder when I hear stories like this, about the logistics. If I were to sell everything and give it all to the poor -- I dream of paying for life-changing medical operations or dentistry people need, career-oriented schooling that would open doors, transportation to visit family members in prison, so many needs --
if you sell it all and give away the proceeds, where do you sleep that night, how do you find food to eat the next morning? I hear these stories but I never hear the logistics of survival with nothing.
I think if I gave everything away I'd be dead in a few days, I don't know how to live without money or a place to sleep. Neither do the working poor who live in their car because it's a lot safer than living on the sidewalk, and who sometimes miss a meal because there's no money for food (and no place to cook it).
Even the working poor sometimes have too much stuff, pouring money into storage rooms to store stuff. Too many of us find "security" or "love" or something in stuff that is actually costing us (time, money, distraction from real life, costing us lots. Yes I speak of myself, too much stuff for wrong reasons!).
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Marvin the Martian: The Kingdom of Heaven as a monastic community? Wow, that really makes me want to be Christian.
Not.
Why is God such a fucking downer all the time?
You sound like Tyrion on Game of Thrones (TV): "Why are all the gods such vicious cunts? Where's the God of Tits and Wine?"
-------------------- Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
A Christian organisation in Holland, acknowledging that this rule isn't realistic for everyone, tried to offer a 'light' form: suggesting you try to reduce your consumption of meat, paper and energy.
This isn't meant as a form of substitution or cop-out, and I guess you still might need to answer for not following Jesus' rule, but I like it.
-------------------- I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious: You sound like Tyrion on Game of Thrones (TV): "Why are all the gods such vicious cunts? Where's the God of Tits and Wine?"
Sounds good to me!
-------------------- Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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footwasher
Shipmate
# 15599
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Posted
You can ask Euty about the man, we went to the same church. Man, he was incorrigible, totally irresponsible! and we loved him, bigtime!
He drove his car till it ran out of gas and told his family God would provide. It was embarassing the number of collisions in the dark between people running up to the car when they thought no one was watching to tank it up with a can!!!
A high caste villager made it part of his routine to dump garbage on a convert, a widow, everytimeshe passed his house. He roused up the village to beat and chase away itinerant evangelists whenever they showed up.
One day he fell sick, and the doctors gave him a month to live. His family turned him out of the house! The widow showed up and took him in. She gave him a pallet to sleep on outside her hut. She prayed for him everyday. After a while, he went back to the doctors and they told him he had no traces of his sickness.
Today he travels from village to village, sharing the Gospel.
Oh yes, he often gets beaten and chased away...
quote: Originally posted by Belle Ringer: quote: Originally posted by footwasher: The Pastor of the church I attended in London decided to be very literal in his interpretation of the Bible. He sold all he had, gave the proceeds to the poor and began to work in the inner city. Soon he had brought several people to the Lord and they formed a house church. The church bought him a house... which he promptly sold again,...
I often wonder when I hear stories like this, about the logistics. If I were to sell everything and give it all to the poor -- I dream of paying for life-changing medical operations or dentistry people need, career-oriented schooling that would open doors, transportation to visit family members in prison, so many needs --
if you sell it all and give away the proceeds, where do you sleep that night, how do you find food to eat the next morning? I hear these stories but I never hear the logistics of survival with nothing.
I think if I gave everything away I'd be dead in a few days, I don't know how to live without money or a place to sleep. Neither do the working poor who live in their car because it's a lot safer than living on the sidewalk, and who sometimes miss a meal because there's no money for food (and no place to cook it).
Even the working poor sometimes have too much stuff, pouring money into storage rooms to store stuff. Too many of us find "security" or "love" or something in stuff that is actually costing us (time, money, distraction from real life, costing us lots. Yes I speak of myself, too much stuff for wrong reasons!).
-------------------- Ship's crimp
Posts: 927 | From: pearl o' the orient | Registered: Apr 2010
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