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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: To like or to not like?
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
And should a Vicar, minister, priest be free and easy with his/her statements on Facebook etc
such as
here or should they always be at work? even when on the web relaxing?
{Preview post is still my friend even after a long holiday}
[ 24. May 2012, 23:29: Message edited by: Nightlamp ]
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
He hasn't been very wise or cyber-savvy, has he?
I don't agree that ministers should be at work all day and every day, but they need to be work aware all the time. Total separation of the day job from the rest of one's life is more possible in some jobs and vocations than in others, and in ministry there is probably the least such scope. All they can hope for is understanding when they do make a mistake. Many are too quick to condemn ministers, especially on the basis of newpaper reports. I hope he gets plenty of support from his diocese and around the parish.
btw, welcome back! Hope you're refreshed.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
If I were in such a position, I'd either have a blanket policy against befriending parishioners on Facebook or I'd put all parishioners in one friends list and use privacy settings for that list that would prevent them from seeing anything but the most innocuous of my posts.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
If I were in such a position, I'd either have a blanket policy against befriending parishioners on Facebook or I'd put all parishioners in one friends list and use privacy settings for that list that would prevent them from seeing anything but the most innocuous of my posts.
Yes. I have tried to do that. A couple of parishioners just begged to be friended, I broke my rule and did so. Mostly it's been OK, but I worry about the snarky self that comes out online, not really the image I wish to project. Keeping a clearer demarcation is much more prudent. Coulda shoulda woulda.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
I wonder if the gentleman is a Shipmate. It sounds like he'd fit in really well.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
If I was CoE, I'd want him for my vicar...
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
99% of other employers have a policy allowing for disciplinary action against an employee * who publicly damages their reputation, including in social media, enshrined in their contracts of employment. It's part of being an employee, not being 'on duty' 24/7 so I don't see why ministers should be any different.
* whether any particular church gives their ministers the full rights of an employee or some other level somewhere between that and the rights of a serf is not the issue here. Save that for another thread.
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cryptic
Shipmate
# 16917
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Posted
I feel for clergy in positions such as this. They are human like all of us and it must be bloody difficult sometimes to hold yourself back from a good online rant, particularly when they have to deal with some of the people that they do.
The good Canon Dr's main sin here is to not realise how anything posted online is public property to be read, analysed and otherwise twisted. I think that his comments seem pretty tongue-in-cheek. I think that a bishoply investigation is pretty over the top when a friendly chat would be more than sufficient.
Ad yes, I think he'd make an excellent shipmate and/or vicar!
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Illegitimi non carborundum
Posts: 225 | From: Sydney | Registered: Feb 2012
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
It's a public space - he should have been careful what he said there.
It's the same for teachers.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
It's a public space - he should have been careful what he said there.
It's the same for teachers.
He should have been more careful, and of course we expect only the best example from such people. But, come on, haven't we all done it?
Most of us on here are christians, but I'd like to meet someone who hasn't at some point posted something which compromises what they stand for, on a social networking site.
The verdict: A slap on the wrist - and DON'T do it again! ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351
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Posted
He's clearly been unwise - about privacy settings if nothing else. I note the exposé letter was anonymous and calls upon the support of that well known group "many people". Whoever wrote that is clearly a poisonous politicing bastard.
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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)
Posts: 1399 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009
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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351
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Posted
He's clearly been unwise - about privacy settings if nothing else. I note the exposé letter was anonymous and calls upon the support of that well known group "many people". Whoever wrote that is clearly a poisonous politicing bastard rather than a genuinely concerned parishoner.
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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)
Posts: 1399 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009
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PerkyEars
slightly distracted
# 9577
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Posted
Oh dear. I agree with Snags. What a petty, nasty little complaint about what is a very mild bit of FB flippancy about his job.
That said - a minister should also guard their tongue on FB, because everyone should for a number of reasons. Noone gets to unplug their brain whilst 'relaxing' on the internet, because it's not your back guarden, it's a public space where you have to engage brain to be safe. Not everyone appreciates sarky humour. Anyone can take things the wrong way. Things can spread that you thought were private. Some people might be looking for things to use against you. Perhaps the minister hasn't been online long enough to learn these things the hard way.
I'm a childminder, and we have the same issues. Occasionally it's occured to me to post that I wish I didn't have to open the baby farm today, and am minded to lock the buggers in a cupboard and play Skyrim. But I restrain myself.
A more intereresting question is - why do vicars attract such vitriol from the people they are trying to minister to? Why are there such nasty types in churches? My gut feeling is that there's a few more in the CofE than in independant churches, because the CofE is more likely to contain people with a history of churchgoing for non-Christian reasons. But perhaps I'm mistaken.
Posts: 532 | From: Bristol | Registered: May 2005
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Johnny S
Shipmate
# 12581
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
He should have been more careful, and of course we expect only the best example from such people. But, come on, haven't we all done it?
Most of us on here are christians, but I'd like to meet someone who hasn't at some point posted something which compromises what they stand for, on a social networking site.
The verdict: A slap on the wrist - and DON'T do it again!
I think the reaction to this story reveals something troubling about our society.
The moral of the story seems to be that it is okay to maintain a complete distinction between our public and private lives.
Hence no one dare pass comment on my private life but mass hysteria can erupt over my public life.
I agree that this doesn't reflect particularly badly on the Priest in question but then I'd argue for a slap on the wrist if he said this in private also. ISTM Jesus wasn't too keen on religious people who only put on a show for the public.
Posts: 6834 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2007
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Cryptic
Shipmate
# 16917
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Posted
Perky Ears - agree completely.
I am an appointed office holder in my parish, and so whatever I post online is pretty much public property. The web allows a certain level of anonymity, however it wouldn't take too much googling work out who I really am. Anything I post is tempered with that.
quote:
Originally posted by PerkyEars:
...the CofE is more likely to contain people with a history of churchgoing for non-Christian reasons. But perhaps I'm mistaken.
Sadly I don't think you are mistaken ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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Illegitimi non carborundum
Posts: 225 | From: Sydney | Registered: Feb 2012
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
I suspect, but obviously cannot prove, that this guy was looking for a way to be fired and/or disciplined. Maybe the bishop has been ignoring him?
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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
Posts: 1310 | Registered: May 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cryptic:
quote:
Originally posted by PerkyEars:
...the CofE is more likely to contain people with a history of churchgoing for non-Christian reasons. But perhaps I'm mistaken.
Sadly I don't think you are mistaken
No, I don't think you are either - it's most likely the local C of E school for their children - not that I'm cynical or anything! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
I sometimes don't fancy doing a seminar, but I don't post that on Facebook as my colleagues are also there, and also future Facebook friends who shall be attending the seminar. In that I do a lot less seminars than the priest does services.
This is a non-story for me. The issue is rather of a vindictive parishioner.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
It's a public space - he should have been careful what he said there.
It's the same for teachers.
...Most of us on here are christians, but I'd like to meet someone who hasn't at some point posted something which compromises what they stand for, on a social networking site.
Here's one. But then, (i) I don't use Facebook very much; (ii) I'm old-school enough, I hope, to recognise the difference between public and private spaces (and, BTW, Boogie is dead right: it's important to recognise that these sites are public. It is perhaps more understandable when some spotty yoof fails to realise this: it beggars belief that a mature man, who as a clerk in holy orders must still be presumed, even in the CofE, to have had some kind of education, can fail to do so); and (iii) perhaps most effectively of all, my godmother, and my late mother's oldest friend, is one of my Facebook friends. 'Am I happy to say this in her company?' is a pretty good litmus test for what is and isn't postable!
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351
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Posted
quote:
(iii) perhaps most effectively of all, my godmother, and my late mother's oldest friend, is one of my Facebook friends. 'Am I happy to say this in her company?' is a pretty good litmus test for what is and isn't postable!
Which is why I have a whole range of FB lists in order to restrict visibility of what I post.
Not that I would ever post anything on the most scurrilous that I wouldn't/couldn't defend to the most innocent, but there's no point in causing offence where none need be given/taken. I occasionally weigh the scales as to whether this is hypocrisy, or just not causing my brother to stumble ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)
Posts: 1399 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
I tend to agree with Johnny S somewhat. It's tended to leave a somewhat distasteful "say something, do something else" aroma hanging over things which is likely to be grossly overstated. And the complaint is poisonous.
But all that aside, there is a separate issue with sites devoted exclusively to social networking (as opposed to say this one, where social networks can form around an external interest), and that is how manipulative they can become. And frankly, I find the whole concept of a "like" button - or its opposite - creepy. But that's not the main issue here. I just thought I would throw it in.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Aggie
Ship's cat
# 4385
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Posted
I think the moral of the story is just be careful what you post, and be careful whom you are "friends" with on a social networking site.
My workplace has now banned the use of social networking sites during working hours, after an unfortunate incident involving one of my colleagues, who not only "likes" and affiliates herself with various radical/extremist political and religious groups on Facebook, but also wrote the comment on her wall: "Why do I have to work with such f*****g w****rs!" She obviously forgot that 1) she has named the company where she works in her "about me" on her profile 2) she is "friends" with her bosses and many of her colleagues on Facebook. Whoops! ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Fortunately, all she received was a good ticking off, but to many employers all of this would be a disciplinary or sackable offence.
[ 25. May 2012, 10:11: Message edited by: Aggie ]
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“I see his blood upon the rose
And in the stars the glory of his eyes,
His body gleams amid eternal snows,
His tears fall from the skies.”
(Joseph Mary Plunkett 1887-1917)
Posts: 581 | From: A crazy, crazy world | Registered: Apr 2003
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aggie:
I think the moral of the story is just be careful what you post, and be careful whom you are "friends" with on a social networking site.
My workplace has now banned the use of social networking sites during working hours, after an unfortunate incident involving one of my colleagues, who not only "likes" and affiliates herself with various radical/extremist political and religious groups on Facebook, but also wrote the comment on her wall: "Why do I have to work with such f*****g w****rs!" She obviously forgot that 1) she has named the company where she works in her "about me" on her profile 2) she is "friends" with her bosses and many of her colleagues on Facebook. Whoops!
Fortunately, all she received was a good ticking off, but to many employers all of this would be a disciplinary or sackable offence.
Haha - that made me laugh - but it is a somewhat extreme example of what can happen to anyone (well almost anyone!)
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351
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Posted
It's not that extreme, the 'net is littered with examples of ill-advised postings, both personal and professional, and there will be way more than the particularly humorous ones that hit the zeitgeist. People are pretty darn thick, sometimes.
Add in the ill-advised use of 'private' systems and it gets even better. I once had to recover a bunch of MSN logs where an employee had been conducting what might be termed "inappropriate" chats and video sessions at work, on work equipment, with a number of potential paramours. I mean, seriously, why?
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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)
Posts: 1399 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
Looks like it's just the old story of assuming that everything you type on the net is going to be read by someone who's got it in for you, or is a precious little creep. If you keep imagining that then you keep a bit of a reign on what you type.
I have to admit, I don't swear on Facebook, and I don't complain about work. I would consider that unprofessional and unfair to my colleagues and those parishioners who are 'friended'. I might joke about being glad to have only one service, or in need of a holiday, or about funny things that happen in church or meetings. But humour's important to me and I use it a lot.
My views are pretty much out there, too, I suppose, if anyone's interested in checking out my responses to the posts of others. But I just keep in the back of my mind the fact that my Bishop, some parishioners and a number of people I'm not too familiar with are reading my words; including all those unknown and anonymous folks who sit by their elbows!!
I don't see that the priest in question did anything particularly wrong, per se. But he might've guessed that clergy humour would not be appreciated by certain kinds of people known to him.
Another vote for a slap on the wrist.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Snags:
I once had to recover a bunch of MSN logs where an employee had been conducting what might be termed "inappropriate" chats and video sessions at work, on work equipment, with a number of potential paramours. I mean, seriously, why?
Well, I didn't know why either, until I googled "paramour"!
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
i expect +Doncaster will issue some weasel words in due course.
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Snags:
I once had to recover a bunch of MSN logs where an employee had been conducting what might be termed "inappropriate" chats and video sessions at work, on work equipment, with a number of potential paramours. I mean, seriously, why?
Well, I didn't know why either, until I googled "paramour"!
Find any interesting sites? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ 25. May 2012, 13:12: Message edited by: Albertus ]
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Snags:
I once had to recover a bunch of MSN logs where an employee had been conducting what might be termed "inappropriate" chats and video sessions at work, on work equipment, with a number of potential paramours. I mean, seriously, why?
Well, I didn't know why either, until I googled "paramour"!
Find any interesting sites?
Haha - yeah, very funny, but I was only looking for the definition!
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Oh well, I suppose I'll have to go looking for myself, then. Just hoped you might have been able to save me some of the spadework!
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
I'm just a lay minister, but I tend to be leery of "friending" church people on my Facebook because I pass along pretty opinionated news articles and the like, and I want to keep a distinction between personal me and official church me. And frankly I don't want a lot of parishoners up in our household/family business, which is another focus of my Facebook.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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John D. Ward
Shipmate
# 1378
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Posted
Before posting anything on the Internet, it helps to imagine that all your friends and all your enemies are looking over your shoulder.
Posts: 208 | From: Swansea, Wales, U.K. | Registered: Sep 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
My vicar is not on Facebook (as far as I know) and that's probably a wise thing. Is there any diocesan (or equivalent in other denominations/religions) advice on the subject?
Wise because it stops you opening your big mouth wide enough for your foot and probably also wise because it can be a time sink.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
He should have instead shared his real thoughts with the choir. We understand that sort of humour. In fact, the best vicars come into the vestry and share an irreverent joke or two with the choir before the service begins - it helps them relax and helps the choir relax too. Then, once the service is under way, everything is done properly. Just time for another irreverent comment after the vestry prayer, before we all go home. (But God help the clergyman who forgets to turn off the roving mike!)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Cryptic:
quote:
Originally posted by PerkyEars:
...the CofE is more likely to contain people with a history of churchgoing for non-Christian reasons. But perhaps I'm mistaken.
Sadly I don't think you are mistaken
No, I don't think you are either - it's most likely the local C of E school for their children - not that I'm cynical or anything!
As usual all Christians are morally superior, but as soon as a Christian behaves badly it's a case of they're not really a Christian, blame the heathens instead. Really you people should get the beams out of your eyes, then you might see why the great majority of the population are cynical about you.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
Posts: 2314 | From: Croydon | Registered: Dec 2001
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
The tangled webs we weave online: I recently got "zapped" by our pastor for, on my own Facebook page, expressing anger and disappointment over a couple of recent encounters with homophobic people (not mentioned by name, of course) in my church; one of whom, who is in a position of responsibility in our congregation, used his official e-mail at his state job to send both Obama-is-a-secret-Muslim Tea Party crap and some ranting screed by another author opining how much better life was before teh libruls and homosexuals took over. Now, keep in mind that my pastor is, by his own definition, an analog guy in a digital world, and he can barely maneuver on teh interwebs; in fact, he never reads our church Facebook page (!), although he's friended numerous parishoners and seems to follow their posts on an ongoing basis on his own FB page. He somehow got the idea that everything I put on my personal Facebook page is broadcast to everyone in our church who has a Facebook page. He also doesn't understand that I haven't "friended" more than a handful of people in our congregation. AND...my partner had already e-mailed him with copies of the offending e-mails, saying that this was unacceptable. Anyway, he sent me a frowny-faced e-mail and then called me; I was unrepentant in arguing that Mr. Government Employee has no business spamming his extremist political nonsense to others on the state's dime, and that my partner and I were both offended by the content of his correspondence. And I got the impression, after hanging up the phone, that he still didn't get why we were angry or why not every church member with a FB account saw what I wrote. He seemed more concerned that I was upsetting what he perceives as the congregational kumbaya.
But it makes me much more circumspect about expressing myself on FB, knowing that I'm being ahem, monitored.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
The general rule with Facebook has to be "anything you write may be taken and used in evidence against you." That certainly makes me careful not so much about what I say, but how I say it. That said, my major rants never find their way on to F/B.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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