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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: What comes to mind when you think about God?
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel
EE, I think you are putting 2 and 2 together and making 5 again.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
The word God
So the word 'God' itself has no meaning to you?
Course it does. I can pick it apart.
It's just the word that seems to occur to me first.
p.s. Care to explain why God is a massive contradiction? Are we speaking Theodicy?
Them's big wurds!
No, just a very human response, a lot of the time, to the experience that God is big and powerful, can do whatever he wants, is 'love' and 'good' etc etc, but around me people, including good people, die, grieve, get depressed, suffer terminal disappointment, to say nothing of natural disasters, war and all that.
To my tiny, finite mind that's a contradiction in the nature of the Creator, but I also bear in mind that what can be known about the whole of God by a tiny finite mind must be as near to naught as makes no difference.
I wish I could just think of a word and not the meaning for it: I think 'Mars Bar', 'cake' and 'Jelly Babies' and sadly my mind has already jumped to the image, the texture, the pleasure, the purchase - and the calories!
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Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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sanc
Shipmate
# 6355
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Posted
Mathematics. He must be the embodiment of mathematics to give such structure to the universe.
Posts: 358 | From: Philippines | Registered: May 2004
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Rosina
Shipmate
# 15589
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Posted
spirit - someone not limited to our human five senses - someone who can be anywhere and everywhere
superior being - JS Spong puts it "the ground of all being"
giver of Life giver of peace, giver of light, giver of love
creator, lover
if it was possible to put God in a box and say "that is God" it wouldn't be God would it? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"Imagine." If you can imagine, you can dream, and if you can dream, you can hope and if you have hope, you may seek and if you seek; you will find.
Posts: 75 | From: Lancashire | Registered: Apr 2010
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
a label that we humans give to the sense we have of the ineffable, unfathomable, that does not fit into what we believe to be the normal, everyday workings of our environment.
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
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Rosina
Shipmate
# 15589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jahlove:
a label that we humans give to the sense we have of the ineffable, unfathomable, that does not fit into what we believe to be the normal, everyday workings of our environment.
do you believe one day this "ineffable, unfathomable" sense could be the "normal everyday workings of your environment"? - and if not why not?
Is it possible to walk in the light continually?
another word just came to mind - numinous
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"Imagine." If you can imagine, you can dream, and if you can dream, you can hope and if you have hope, you may seek and if you seek; you will find.
Posts: 75 | From: Lancashire | Registered: Apr 2010
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Sir Pellinore
Quester Emeritus
# 12163
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
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p.s. Care to explain why God is a massive contradiction? Are we speaking Theodicy?
Well, you could start with the Wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy
I must confess I took the thread on face value.
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Well...
Posts: 5108 | From: The Deep North, Oz | Registered: Dec 2006
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel
Why the EE?
Because I can't understand how you think my response to Boogie is not logical. She said that we cannot but project. I am saying that if projection is all there is, then we are all just making God up as we see fit, which is really a form of practical atheism. Clearly this is not the biblical position according to any interpretation that regards the Bible as essentially "true", because it is clear that the entire message of the Bible can be summed up in one phrase: God revealing Himself to man. This is the opposite of projection.
Of course, God has revealed Himself using anthropomorphic categories, but this is no more an example of projection than the mental functioning of the child who tries to understand something an adult explains to her in "appropriate language". The child is not trying to fashion the concepts according to her own outlook, but rather the limitations of her perception of reality determine the language used in which external realities are revealed to her.
So biblical anthropomorphisms are not really "projection", but a form of language.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I'd suggest it was both/and rather than either/or ... but then, I'm becoming increasingly apothatic ...
I hope this doesn't lead me to become apathetic, though.
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Seriously, I might be missing something but I don't think that even Boogie was saying that any idea of God we might entertain is purely projection. If she was, then yes, I'd take a similar stance to yourself on the issue. But I do tend to think that you take people's comments further than they intend and then turn them around and beat them back over the head with them.
It might not be what you intend, but it's how it reads to me ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Seriously, I might be missing something but I don't think that even Boogie was saying that any idea of God we might entertain is purely projection. If she was, then yes, I'd take a similar stance to yourself on the issue. But I do tend to think that you take people's comments further than they intend and then turn them around and beat them back over the head with them.
"Even Boogie?"
You are right - I wasn't!
I was saying that maybe Tozer's point when s/he said -
"The most important thing about you is what comes to mind when you think about God."
- may have been that we are all projecting - thus the many 'versions' of God that we see, even on this thread.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie
You are right - I wasn't!
I was saying that maybe Tozer's point when s/he said -
"The most important thing about you is what comes to mind when you think about God."
- may have been that we are all projecting - thus the many 'versions' of God that we see, even on this thread.
This is what you originally said:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical
I remember a "God" like that. He was a projection of a particular church leader I once had some dealings with.
Wasn't that AW Tozer's point when s/he said -
"The most important thing about you is what comes to mind when you think about God."
That we are all projecting - thus what we think of God says more about us than it does about God?
Do you agree with Tozer, or not?
The way you wrote this suggests that you do, but when challenged you seemed to wash your hands of this idea.
What we believe about God may say something about us, but that is not the same as saying that we are all "projecting", by which I understand the word to mean that we are all fashioning the character of God from our own resources. It is manifestly not true that anyone's belief about God is merely projection, because someone could have received a true relevation of God. That may say something about the person - he or she is open to receiving the truth - but it does not imply projection.
Now whether you believe this or not is beside the point. I am challenging the concept to which you refer.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
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Drewthealexander
Shipmate
# 16660
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Posted
What we think about when we think about God says both how God has imprinted himself on us, and how we are responding to him.
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie
You are right - I wasn't!
I was saying that maybe Tozer's point when s/he said -
"The most important thing about you is what comes to mind when you think about God."
- may have been that we are all projecting - thus the many 'versions' of God that we see, even on this thread.
This is what you originally said:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical
I remember a "God" like that. He was a projection of a particular church leader I once had some dealings with.
Wasn't that AW Tozer's point when s/he said -
"The most important thing about you is what comes to mind when you think about God."
That we are all projecting - thus what we think of God says more about us than it does about God?
Do you agree with Tozer, or not?
The way you wrote this suggests that you do, but when challenged you seemed to wash your hands of this idea.
Neither.
I reckon there is some truth in it (the idea that we all project to some extent) If we are thinking about anyone's character (including God's) we are likely to bring our own experiences and personality into that assessment.
Why would there be so many different answers to the question 'What is God's character?' otherwise?
If God's character were self evident, then we'd all give the same answer.
The idea that so few people have the One Truth is wrong imo - and what Jesus taught against. He taught the Jews that God was for all humankind.
I don't think God hides. But I do think we all experience God very differently. We can only see through our own lens.
(It would be great if we could hand the camera to others so that they could see what we see - but we can't, we can only describe. I am a painter and photographer, and I describe the way I see God much better in pictures than words. So I apologise if I can't say clearly what I mean)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
To a certain extent, whilst I can see what Tozer might have been getting at and don't disagree with Drewthealexander that how we think about God 'says' something about us and reflects our response to his working in our lives (for want of a better phrase) but I somehow think the whole premise here doesn't quite 'cut it' ..
We can say and think all manner of 'right' things about God but it's what we DO and how we behave that counts. Sure, 'as a man thinks within himself, so he is' and there is a connection between the inner and the outer - or at least, there should be.
But it can be a bit like Talkative in 'Pilgrim's Progress' - he said and thought all the right things about 'Gospel verities' but he was a dry old windbag full or hot air ...
The Rechabites weren't officially part of Israel nor, nor presumably did they believe the 'right things' about God but were commended for their way of life and used as an example and an object lesson for wayward and drifting Israel.
Surely the Parable of the Good Samaritan is making a similar point? The Samaritan didn't 'think' about God in the 'right' way but his actions showed he was a true 'neighbour' to the man who fell among thieves.
Talk is cheap. Thinking possibly even cheaper.
It isn't just about how we think and how we talk but how we act.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Rosina
Shipmate
# 15589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
If God's character were self evident, then we'd all give the same answer.
[/QB]
Hmm it's interesting that no-one has written the word Jesus isn't it?
Surely the most accurate image of God ever presented was that of Jesus who described the mind and nature of God.
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"Imagine." If you can imagine, you can dream, and if you can dream, you can hope and if you have hope, you may seek and if you seek; you will find.
Posts: 75 | From: Lancashire | Registered: Apr 2010
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Rosina
Shipmate
# 15589
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Posted
oops apologies to Gamamaiel who did write "Jesus"
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"Imagine." If you can imagine, you can dream, and if you can dream, you can hope and if you have hope, you may seek and if you seek; you will find.
Posts: 75 | From: Lancashire | Registered: Apr 2010
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
And who didn't write 'Gamamaiel', Rosnina ... errr ... I mean Rsoanian ... I mean ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosina:
Hmm it's interesting that no-one has written the word Jesus isn't it?
Surely the most accurate image of God ever presented was that of Jesus who described the mind and nature of God.
I did (up thread)
Yes - I agree, but that image, given by Jesus, was projected to us by people. So it's still subject to inaccuracies and interpretation. For example, John interpreted what he saw of Jesus very differently from the others.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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kaytee
Shipmate
# 3482
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Posted
That which demands a response.
Posts: 152 | From: Hertfordshire, UK | Registered: Oct 2002
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
And who didn't write 'Gamamaiel', Rosnina ... errr ... I mean Rsoanian ... I mean ...
Don't be so sensitive!
Oh. That's another thread.... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I'm not being sensitive, I'm just messing about Anselamin ... I mean Asnelmian ... I mean ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sir Pellinore
Quester Emeritus
# 12163
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I'm not being sensitive, I'm just messing about Anselamin ... I mean Asnelmian ... I mean ...
A bit of fun, whilst EE seems bent on a bit of thread sinking may be just what the doctor ordered.
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Well...
Posts: 5108 | From: The Deep North, Oz | Registered: Dec 2006
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Deputy Verger
Shipmate
# 15876
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Posted
I think of the messengers, the angels, intermediaries, the ones described as shielding even their own faces from the sight, the ones who occasionally appear to folk and say: "Do not be afraid." I'll never be enough of a mystic for a vision of God, but I will always live in hope of a vision of an angel.
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
Posts: 475 | From: London | Registered: Sep 2010
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd)
...EE seems bent on a bit of thread sinking...
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
Wild, untameable, extravagent, profligate love. The One who sets our hearts on fire.
[ 26. June 2012, 21:32: Message edited by: Jolly Jape ]
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Sir Pellinore
Quester Emeritus
# 12163
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd)
...EE seems bent on a bit of thread sinking...
OK. You were seeking clarification. It came across as a wee bit laboured and pedantic to me. Sometimes that happens on a one dimensional discussion forum where you just get the written word.
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Well...
Posts: 5108 | From: The Deep North, Oz | Registered: Dec 2006
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848
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Posted
When I think about God what comes to mind is either intense nothing (as Fr Gregory says), or a passive watching presence, just looking at me. It makes no difference whether this watching presence is called "God" or "Jesus".
[ 28. June 2012, 03:48: Message edited by: Nunc Dimittis ]
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
The Judge. Always watching. Always knowing. Who demands perfection as a minimum standard. For whom nothing we do can ever be good enough.
The sort of Father whose first words, when we come home on a Sunday evening full of the joys of having scored our first ever half-century on the cricket field, are "so why wasn't it a century then?"
How very, very sad. Where did you get this view from?
Didn't you know that the Christian gospel is supposed to be good news. The view above is extremely bad news and so cannot, by definition, be Christian.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Rosina
Shipmate
# 15589
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Posted
I agree Leo - this from Marvin:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
The Judge. Always watching. Always knowing. Who demands perfection as a minimum standard. For whom nothing we do can ever be good enough.
The sort of Father whose first words, when we come home on a Sunday evening full of the joys of having scored our first ever half-century on the cricket field, are "so why wasn't it a century then?"
sounds more like a human father than 'Our Father who art in Heaven" to me.
I read a long time ago that the first impression kids have of God (of those that believe from childhood) is closely related to the impression they have of their fathers.
This makes perfect sense, in at least the big three monotheistic religions, as God is referred to as "father". In that way, the armchair psychologist could probably make a good case that
those raised theistic with nasty, mean fathers might well have an association with the word god as nasty and mean.
And maybe those raised atheistic with nasty, mean fathers might sometimes become fervent believers, at least initially, in seeking the better father they were denied in childhood?
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"Imagine." If you can imagine, you can dream, and if you can dream, you can hope and if you have hope, you may seek and if you seek; you will find.
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
A father who asked for bread gives a stone, or a father who creates souls with whom he is so irreversibly angry that he destines them to endless pain (or perhaps just takes any opportunity of failure of belief, ritual, or behaviour to justify the pain - and does he inflict it himself or hand the punishment over to demons and devils as his agents)?
No the Christian God has not entirely answered the question of his Son - why hast Thou forsaken Me.
Well, we can and ought to hope for better than my carelessly constructed despair.
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
Inpenetrable darkness with the sound of stone growing on a cliff but with the comfort of knowing I'm safely in the shadow of his wing. The Omega nebula. A newborn infant's face.
[ 30. June 2012, 00:28: Message edited by: art dunce ]
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ramarius:
AW Tozer apparently said:
"The most important thing about you is what comes to mind when you think about God."
So what comes to mind?
That's an idea I can agree with. What comes to my mind is Jesus Christ, glorified and resurrected, God of heaven and of the universe.
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A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.
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