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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: welcoming the homeless -- what are the issues
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
Church is downtown, near the bridge. People want to come into the church fellowship hall and use the toilets -- both shoppers nearby and homeless. (I've done that myself!) Some are opposed to allowing any of that for fear the homeless will hang out, making the place unpleasant or unsafe. The Ship's own Genevieve was murdered in her church office by a homeless man she was helping.
What are the issues in welcoming the homeless, letting them sit indoors instead of out in the heat, what controls are needed to protect the property and the two (both female) staff people whose offices are in that building?
Keeping "them" out is safe but seems to go against a lot of Jesus's teaching. Still, one doesn't want urination in the corners instead of the bathrooms, or threats to staff or volunteers.
Libraries deal with it, seems like churches should be able to! I don't know what specific steps to suggest to satisfy those who are afraid of letting "them" into "our" middle class building.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Exactly how many churches are there in your town ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Any chance of them banding together to provide a cover rota ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
These are issues are church has struggled with, imperfectly. Still I am proud of what we have done even as I wish to do more. Some thoughts:
1. Protecting staff is paramount. If you allow access to the homeless (and I believe you should) you become a "magnet". Our staff are behind a closed locked door, with a window and a buzzer to let folks in. Not ideal, but probably the best we can hope for. But we are able to open other parts of our campus to the homeless (we have a gym that is used as overnight shelter, which is not connected to the bldg the offices are in).
2. As w/ #1, you'll have to make a decision which parts of your campus you want to allow access, which parts you don't, and how to secure that is essential. Know that homeless will hang out and sleep (and do other stuff more problematic) in the landscaping, doorways, etc. so that needs to be part of your consideration. Good lighting is essential in key places. We also hire a security guard for our shelter, something that's paid for by a coalition of churches (see #3)
3. Having a rota of the location of services is not ideal for the homeless. The homeless need continuity to build a community of resources they can draw from*. Also the logistics of moving from one spot to another with no transport and possible mental or physical disabilities is daunting. Better for each church to get together and divvie up the types of clientele you're serving (e.g. overnight shelter & soup kitchen for homeless at one church; food bank for poor but not homeless families at another, afterschool tutoring/recreation/feeding for kids at a third...). But definitely working together on funding and staffing is key. No church can do it alone.
4. Ideally, work closely with local city government. Here in our little corner of the world, we've seen some real miracles there. Other churches in other cities haven't been as fortunate (many local cities claim "we have no homeless" despite clear evidence to the contrary). Banding together a coalition of churches to present a united front makes a huge difference.
5. Know that local business will not be a fan. I get that. If there's small things you can do to be of help (security guards, trash pick up, adjusting hours of operation), do them. But be prepared for complaints that are reasonable but there's really nothing you can do about if you are going to serve the homeless. Be sympathetic, but don't apologize or back down from your mission.
* One professional we have worked with defines homelessness as a "failure of community"-- noting that the difference between you or I and the homeless is precisely that-- you and I experience hard times, bad luck, or screw up thru our own poor choices just as much as homeless people. The difference is we had the good fortune to have family or friends we can fall back on to help us get back on our feet when that happened. The most important component to a "cure" for homelessness is restoring community-- connecting them to a stable community and resources.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
cliffdweller's nailed it, IMO, in saying that homelessness is a failure of community and that homeless folks need stability (as we all do).
Not all homeless people are mentally disturbed, but as we all know, many are. It's important to know what you can't do, and when a referral is necessary.
It seems that having some church staff (or volunteers) specifically tasked with getting to know the people who come is really important. In my home church in Detroit, we had (have?) someone who knew people and if someone, due to mental illness or whatever, began to be disruptive in church, she'd sit with them. A comforting presence like that can be really helpful.
In the churches I've attended & worked at, the restrooms have proved troublesome: weapons brought in and used to threaten others/steal from them; people fighting in restrooms; drug use and other behavior such as cutting oneself in the toilet stalls; bathing in the sinks so that others feel uncomfortable entering the restroom; using up or stealing supplies
Basically, a church needs to be prepared for stuff like that, and to know how to help people who are doing things like using drugs, fighting, or cutting themselves. (Of course, you could just as easily have these things occur in the youth group with suburban teenagers in middle-class homes.)
Setting boundaries also is important: Let people know that they simply cannot beg for money on the church premises, or bring weapons, or threaten anyone. Develop a good relationship with the local police if possible, so that a person causing a dangerous situation can be removed safely for everyone involved.
You also need to train the staff in some very basic procedures. Some of the most important:
--Never stand between a disturbed person and their means of egress (escape, exit).
--Never touch a disturbed person.
--Never engage in an argument with a disturbed person. Just keep telling them calmly that they need to leave (or whatever your policy is).
Finally, setting aside the issue of mental illness, you might find that as the congregation and other visitors adjust to the presence of homeless people, you may need to devote particular spaces (if possible) to serving the homeless. Both groups may be uncomfortable around or distrusting of the other. At my home church, we didn't create a special Sunday service just for the homeless, but there was a tendency for the majority of our homeless congregants to attend the 8:30 service. I think it's important to the whole congregation that there isn't a separate service, but you may find a natural gravitation like that.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Johnny S
Shipmate
# 12581
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
cliffdweller's nailed it.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Fantastic stuff from cliffdweller.
The only thing I'd add is sustainability. Homeless people need stability. (Hey, don't we all?) Better to set a low bar but to do it faithfully rain or shine that to do loads but keep on having to cancel it or move it.
[ 22. June 2012, 02:47: Message edited by: Johnny S ]
Posts: 6834 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2007
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
Find somebody who is good at applying for grants and get them involved. If there is funding available from local, regional/state/province and/or national governments, it should be used to make sure you serve well and don't do a half-dressed job.
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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iamchristianhearmeroar
Shipmate
# 15483
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Posted
I have no experience of this myself, but if you're ever in London UK you should visit St Martin in the Fields. It's one of London's most visible churches, right on Trafalgar Square. As well as being one of London's top concert venues it also has an amazing outreach to London's homeless. It does both of these things very well.
I'm actually singing in a concert there this evening - what this means in practice is that our rehearsal this afternoon will be given to a large number of homeless people sleeping and resting in the church pews (as well as lots of tourists).
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My blog: http://alastairnewman.wordpress.com/
Posts: 642 | From: London, UK | Registered: Feb 2010
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
As I said on another thread, my church in Holland does services with the homeless. We don't do it in our church building though. There is a place in my city that is run by several churches, where the homeless can come during the day for a coffee, a chat... Sometimes we have services there with those of them who want to appear (usually quite a lot). Normally, also a number of non-homeless members take part.
The homeless aren't excluded from our normal services of course, although in practice they rarely come.
quote:
iamchristianhearmeroar:
I have no experience of this myself, but if you're ever in London UK you should visit St Martin in the Fields.
With this I definitely agree! Absolutely my favourite church in inner London.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
There is a place in my city that is run by several churches, where the homeless can come during the day for a coffee, a chat... Sometimes we have services there with those of them who want to appear (usually quite a lot). Normally, also a number of non-homeless members take part.
This sounds similar to a set-up in the Hague where I am involved. We have a RC and a protestant street pastor who are supported by local churches and work full-time amongst the needy. There is a service once a week which is very much appreciated.
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
This is a tough one and I don't have any easy answers. Here in the UK homeless people almost always have mental health and/or addiction issues, so their needs are pretty complex. For example a city centre church I know of used to open daily so that people could drop in for coffee and a chat, and attracted a fair few people who were lonely or isolated in some way, often through old age. It also attracted the homeless, which was a obviously a good thing on one level, but did intimidate others out of coming. They were also more than the church volunteers (mostly a very kind and gentle bunch of older ladies) could handle. Likewise my current church has an occasional attender who is a homeless alcoholic. By and large the regulars show him kindness, but he's been known to turn up drunk and aggressive, which isn't easy for some older, more easily intimidated people to cope with. Obviously as Christians we have a responsibility to open our doors to the homeless, but how do we balance that with our duty of care to other people in contact with our churches, who are perhaps also vulnerable? And of course we are almost always untrained amateurs when it comes to the complex issues involved. The churches in my city seem to have get around this partly by banding together to run a drop in centre. There is also a dedicated chaplain to the homeless, who is a Catholic nun but also has the support and co-operation of pretty much all the city's churches.
Posts: 3758 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
Rereading this thread it strikes me that churches in the UK tend to be smaller/poorer than in the US. On a weekday an average city centre church will have one or two staff and a small pool of volunteers, mostly older women. IME they really want to do something to help the homeless in their communities, but their abilities and resources are pretty limited.
Posts: 3758 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
Johnny S’ post is spot on – it’s better to do something small, do it well and maintain it year on year than attempt to do something massive that stops after a few months because it’s become unsustainable. Cliffdweller’s post is amazing, but what his church does may not be possible for all churches to replicate. But rather than use that as an excuse, it’s better to think about what you can do with the resources you’ve got.
Where we used to live, the local churches banded together to run a 7 days a week night shelter in Winter. Each church took a turn to host the shelter on their premises and staff it. None of them could have done it on their own, but working together meant that they were able to do something meaningful.
This was an area that attracted a lot of refugees and asylum seekers. One of the churches ran a Refugee Day centre that served food, gave advice on accessing benefits and housing, provided day to day needs etc. Although the running of the centre was eventually passed onto a charity, the church continues to host and staff it.
The small church where we are now displays adverts for the various schemes that exist locally to help the homeless and other groups in need and hosts a legal surgery. There are special collections every so often where the money is passed onto local causes. The one at Christmas gets passed onto Social Services to buy presents etc for people who wouldn’t get something otherwise. Stuff brought for the Harvest service is passed onto the local night shelter. Members of the congregation are encouraged to get involved with what’s out there as well if they are able too.
As for the church in the OP … Maybe if they can adapt their premises in such a way that the loos can be open access but the rest of the building is closed off and staff safety is not compromised. And they have the resources to hire people to look after and maintain the building then it’s worth considering. If they don’t, then maybe it’s time for the congregation to start campaigning for the council to provide public loos for passing shoppers and facilities for the homeless instead.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Tubbs: Where we used to live, the local churches banded together to run a 7 days a week night shelter in Winter.
This is how it's normally done in Holland. Personally, I think churches banding together is the best way.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
Johnny S’ post is spot on – it’s better to do something small, do it well and maintain it year on year than attempt to do something massive that stops after a few months because it’s become unsustainable. Cliffdweller’s post is amazing, but what his church does may not be possible for all churches to replicate. But rather than use that as an excuse, it’s better to think about what you can do with the resources you’ve got.
Where we used to live, the local churches banded together to run a 7 days a week night shelter in Winter. Each church took a turn to host the shelter on their premises and staff it. None of them could have done it on their own, but working together meant that they were able to do something meaningful.
fyi: our church is only about 200 members, on the small-ish side for US. And she, not he.
Definitely banding together is the way to go. If you can avoid rotating the location of services it's better for continuity and transportation-- again, have different things at different churches and share costs and staffing. But something is always better than nothing, so if you need to rotate locations, do so. We are part of an amazing coalition of churches that does this together. While the shelter is at our place, different churches "host" it each night by sending volunteers to cook dinner, pray with those who want it, wash their feet, etc. The cost of the security guard and other expenses are shared. Other churches house the food bank, literacy programs, etc.
A church in a neighboring city tried to do something similar and were shut down by the local city council pulling some zoning nonsense because they didn't have shower facilities. They appealed based on the urgency of the need and were told "our city has no homeless"-- despite the fact that they were full to capacity with homeless. Next city council meeting, every church in town sent a clergyperson to the meeting to stand up and affirm the urgency of the problem and support the church's actions. They are now an effective and united coalition taking small but significant steps to improve conditions.
Build a coalition, start small, everyone do what they can. There are no perfect solutions, but doing what you can really does make a difference.
[ 22. June 2012, 14:19: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
One city I heard about that did the rotation of services had a single common location where homeless met at a particular time every day, staffed by volunteers from all the area churches. They would do a simple intake and determine needs. Then vans would take their guests to whichever church was hosting that night. Seems like a good solution to the continuity issue.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
Thought-provoking comments, thanks all. Worth knowing that it's not easy, and that the toilet rooms can become dangerous. We have two staff, both female, in offices down a side hall, and an elderly female sits at a desk at the door to the street so anyone who comes in is noticed and strangers are told "sorry, the bathrooms are not open."
Seems a waste to have a large hall with air conditioning and tables and chairs unused while human beings out on the street are wishing for a place to sit down in the cool, get a drink of water, use a toilet. Just feels wrong but one must be realistic about how much one tiny group of good-hearted untrained volunteers can do.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
Johnny S’ post is spot on – it’s better to do something small, do it well and maintain it year on year than attempt to do something massive that stops after a few months because it’s become unsustainable. Cliffdweller’s post is amazing, but what his church does may not be possible for all churches to replicate. But rather than use that as an excuse, it’s better to think about what you can do with the resources you’ve got.
Where we used to live, the local churches banded together to run a 7 days a week night shelter in Winter. Each church took a turn to host the shelter on their premises and staff it. None of them could have done it on their own, but working together meant that they were able to do something meaningful.
fyi: our church is only about 200 members, on the small-ish side for US. And she, not he.
Definitely banding together is the way to go. If you can avoid rotating the location of services it's better for continuity and transportation-- again, have different things at different churches and share costs and staffing. But something is always better than nothing, so if you need to rotate locations, do so. We are part of an amazing coalition of churches that does this together. While the shelter is at our place, different churches "host" it each night by sending volunteers to cook dinner, pray with those who want it, wash their feet, etc. The cost of the security guard and other expenses are shared. Other churches house the food bank, literacy programs, etc.
A church in a neighboring city tried to do something similar and were shut down by the local city council pulling some zoning nonsense because they didn't have shower facilities. They appealed based on the urgency of the need and were told "our city has no homeless"-- despite the fact that they were full to capacity with homeless. Next city council meeting, every church in town sent a clergyperson to the meeting to stand up and affirm the urgency of the problem and support the church's actions. They are now an effective and united coalition taking small but significant steps to improve conditions.
Build a coalition, start small, everyone do what they can. There are no perfect solutions, but doing what you can really does make a difference.
Sorry, I’ll try to remember that you’re a she rather than a he in future. 200 members may be small for the US, but for the UK it’s large. The average church is probably 50 plus a bit more, give or take. And when I talk about our small church, I’m talking approximately 20 members, with slightly more or less than that for services each week depending on what’s going on.
Most of the churches that ran the night shelter in the Winter that I mentioned varied from 30 – 100 plus members and were fairly close together geographically. If you could get to one, you could get to all the others on foot fairly easily. Many of them could only commit to one night due to the fact that the premises were used for other purposes on the other evenings or because of other things that were going on during the day. (My previous church did it on the night the Refugee Day centre wasn’t meeting the next day).
Tubbs
[ 22. June 2012, 14:49: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Yes, I think that's a very workable model (here in LA things are a lot more spread out-- and hilly-- so harder to get around to churches that are miles apart). You might have a sign that's posted at each location that details which church is on each night, with a map showing each location.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Bax
Shipmate
# 16572
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Posted
All of the practical points made above are sensible and appropriate. Welcoming those who may be vulnerable or just down on their luck into a space that you are responsible for needs to be done with your eyes open.
However (I'm sure you are only too well aware of this or you would not have posted the question in the 1st place), don't loose sight of the fact that by doing so you will be inviting Jesus Christ himself into your church for "whenever you do this for the least of these who are members of my family you do it to ME"
Posts: 108 | Registered: Aug 2011
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Just to add to the idea that there are many ways to be involved in helping the homeless besides having a shelter... here's what one very small, very poor church here in L.A.'s skid row is doing:
homeless karaoke
I went to this as a karaoke virgin, and must tell you, it is amazing-- lots of joy, and a real sense of community. The homeless begin lining up more than an hour before they open the doors, and the place is packed. If you're ever in L.A. on a Wed. night, be sure to stop by.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
The church here, where we see a handful of homeless a year, we keep the church open during the day, unmanned, except on Mondays when there's coffee provided during the market. We set up an arrangement with a café and a kebab shop in town (same family runs both) where we issue the homeless guys with a voucher, they get fed (at somewhere that lets them sit in but doesn't sell alcohol). The toilets are inaccessible, but there are public toilets not far away.
We also work with a homeless centre in London donating time and goods to them at harvest and other times.
The problem with most support is it won't deal with the guys who are mentally ill and off their meds or those who are drinking or taking drugs. The last really scary guy, actually little un-threatening women coped with him better, but he ended up in prison - probably for assault
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
The issue for now is that I've got to go and be the street greeter for 7 ! We 'ave 'em queuin' up till half 7 when we open the doors.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
Nice anecdote which I can't resist adding...
The city centre church I was talking about upthread once had an unfortunate incident which left the toilets covered in vomit. The poor caretaker, who was oldish and not very well, was getting very upset about it when a very kind visitor announced that "It would be an honour to clean the Lord's House" and went ahead and did just that. IIRC she was an African Pentecostal lady and professional cleaner who happened to have dropped by.
Posts: 3758 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Curiosity killed ... that ISN'T the problem. Loving them inadequately is all we can do. All they want. All they need. The material resources do not exist to redeem them. Never will. Their redemption is done. If I won the Euromillions rollover OF COURSE I'd try and help. It wouldn't work. But it would make me feel good trying ... to save the 100 men I know economically, relationally would EASILY cost £100,000 each. For a start. For the non-economic migrants - the addicts, the mentally ill - it wouldn't influence the survival rate - 5%.
We JUST must LOVE them. And yeah I AM all for social action, but that takes LOVE above all.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
Even though we're out in the middle of nowhere, we do get indigent people through the door from time to time. They're usually hitchhikers who've somehow found their way off the main highways to our little shack in the farm fields.
I would echo Cliffdweller's observations about safety. Some homeless people are, frankly, batshit crazy and can be violent, sometimes for no apparent reason. Right now we have one volunteer secretary, and a pastor who has morning office hours but who is usually out the door by noon to do visits; I worry about security issues sometimes with the secretary, who's a pretty tough lady but who, in an altercation, would have a hard time getting from her desk to a second exit.
Our pastor says he likes doing basic social work, so if he's around and a transient person shows up he goes into full gear with local homeless/social services networks and then oftentimes taxi-ing the individual around to these places until the person has a place to stay and has basic needs met. Again, if it's only the secretary or one of our in-and-out church do-bees in the building, this gets a little trickier; and I'm not sure we even have a protocol for it. (Good question.)
Once upon a time our pastor had the idea of buying property, or having some donated to us, and using that for some sort of basic, basic housing -- a trailer or a "small house" for someone in a homeless situation. He even let someone stay in his own vacation cabin for several weeks, although I guess that didn't turn out well. Personally, I don't think our congregation has either the interest or the resources, over time, to sustain this sort of project.
As far as welcoming the homeless on Sunday mornings -- we're pretty easygoing, and we've had quite an assortment of unusual individuals worshipping with us, so that in itself is not an issue.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
Our pastor says he likes doing basic social work, so if he's around and a transient person shows up he goes into full gear with local homeless/social services networks and then oftentimes taxi-ing the individual around to these places until the person has a place to stay and has basic needs met.
At the urban church where I work, we could do this all day every day and not come close to meeting the needs of the people who come to us.
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
As for the church in the OP … Maybe if they can adapt their premises in such a way that the loos can be open access but the rest of the building is closed off and staff safety is not compromised. And they have the resources to hire people to look after and maintain the building then it’s worth considering. If they don’t, then maybe it’s time for the congregation to start campaigning for the council to provide public loos for passing shoppers and facilities for the homeless instead.
In my city, there are no bathrooms downtown outside of private businesses for people to use when the public library is closed. The local homeless advocates coalition lobbied the city council to provide porta-potties so homeless people wouldn't have to relieve themselves in public, and they refused on the grounds that they didn't have the money. The coalition said they could raise the money, and the city council still refused, on the grounds that it wouldn't be sanitary. So the homeless still relieve themselves in public.
People in the apartment building across the street from the church I work at occasionally call me up in the church office and say someone is defecating on the sidewalk and ask why we don't let them in to use the bathroom. I have taken to telling them that they should let the homeless into their homes to use the bathroom. Turns out they just don't feel comfortable letting in strangers -- they haven't even thought about the clean-up issues involved when people who are eating out of dumpsters use the toilet.
My point is that although there are a lot of good ideas on this thread, the systemic failure of community is the real issue. The good ideas here are band-aids on a suppurating sore.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
I was a stranger, and you welcomed me.
Interesting. My wife and I are finding what this can really mean these days.
Not that we are homeless--far from it. But we are being confronted with a need for temporary shelter at least through next week.
Our son was involved in a very serious accident in Las Vegas NV this past week. He fell of a walkway thirty feet onto pavement. He has sustained multiple injuries which will mean extensive hospital stay. We hope to move him to hospital closer to home this next week, but there are a number of issues to work on.
We are of limited means at the moment. Instead of flying to Las Vegas, we had to drive two days to get here. We are getting a deeply discounted room where he fell, but even then we will not be able to afford it for more than a couple of days.
We have approached a local pastor to see if he can help us find temporary housing at least for my wife even if this may last three weeks.
So, being a stranger is not just some poor guy out on the street, but it could also be you. Do you have a place to stay if your house burned down? (As is happening in Colorado and Utah this weekend). Do you have a place to stay if your community was hit with a devastating natural disaster. Would you have a place to stay if for some reason you were caught in a storm?
Once the dust settles on this storm my family is enduring now, I plan on working with our pastor to look at ways of welcoming the strangers among us.
Please note, I am avoiding the word homeless preferring to use the word stranger.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Johnny S
Shipmate
# 12581
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
My point is that although there are a lot of good ideas on this thread, the systemic failure of community is the real issue. The good ideas here are band-aids on a suppurating sore.
Largely I agree.
What do you think we should do about the real issue then?
Posts: 6834 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2007
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
My point is that although there are a lot of good ideas on this thread, the systemic failure of community is the real issue. The good ideas here are band-aids on a suppurating sore.
Absolutely. And yet, as someone already said, we cannot let the inadequacy of our efforts be an excuse to do nothing (something my church really struggles with). Whatever we do won't be enough, and will undoubtedly have unintended consequences and costs, including costs to innocent bystanders (e.g. local businesses-- or apartment dwellers).
But I still believe something is better than nothing. Do what you can, in some small way.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
We have approached a local pastor to see if he can help us find temporary housing at least for my wife even if this may last three weeks.
So, being a stranger is not just some poor guy out on the street, but it could also be you. Do you have a place to stay if your house burned down? (As is happening in Colorado and Utah this weekend). Do you have a place to stay if your community was hit with a devastating natural disaster. Would you have a place to stay if for some reason you were caught in a storm?
Once the dust settles on this storm my family is enduring now, I plan on working with our pastor to look at ways of welcoming the strangers among us.
JW House provides a place for people at Kaiser in Santa Clara. Places like this are an answer of a sort. The demand is far too great and we need more of these. I am glad you were able to get help getting a place in VEGAS.
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
SANTA CLARA! I mean we got crazies, we got every mental health issue going and for the last six months we got the muscle to enforce time-out, we got every kind of addict but at least we don't got VAMPIRES!
[ 24. June 2012, 11:05: Message edited by: Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
Curiosity killed ... that ISN'T the problem. Loving them inadequately is all we can do. All they want. All they need. The material resources do not exist to redeem them. Never will. Their redemption is done. If I won the Euromillions rollover OF COURSE I'd try and help. It wouldn't work. But it would make me feel good trying ... to save the 100 men I know economically, relationally would EASILY cost £100,000 each. For a start. For the non-economic migrants - the addicts, the mentally ill - it wouldn't influence the survival rate - 5%.
We JUST must LOVE them. And yeah I AM all for social action, but that takes LOVE above all.
That's a good reminder. I'm not very good at many aspects of loving people as they need to be loved, but I do what bit I can...I think. Maybe I'm not faithful enough.
I'm not in much of a position to do a whole lot. But there are the little things, too. Where I work, we're open 365 days a year, so we get lots of tourists, regulars to our daily services, people looking for a quiet spot to pray during the day, but also people who may have nowhere else to go - especially now that the city has passed a "sit-lie" ordinance prohibiting sitting or lying down on public property before 10pm. (Yet another attempt to criminalize poverty in America.) I think people who are used to being chased off supposedly public property appreciate not only not being shadowed or watched suspiciously, but being given a smile and then left alone. Many return my smile - even people who are muttering to themselves who I expect to not even notice me.
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Yes, I think that's a very workable model (here in LA things are a lot more spread out-- and hilly-- so harder to get around to churches that are miles apart). You might have a sign that's posted at each location that details which church is on each night, with a map showing each location.
You might even consider leaving a few copies of the maps people can take. When you're stressed out our feeling overwhelmed, it can be hard to process information like directions. Having them in hand would make life a lot easier. I can't imagine living on the streets unsure where my next meal was coming from, and not feeling too overwhelmed to make sense out of any written instructions. Add to that if you're trying to care for a child, or if you're trying to negotiate any kind of system for benefits or medical care.
I love the karaoke idea! It must be refreshing for all involved.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
I love the karaoke idea! It must be refreshing for all involved.
Absolutely love it! For so many reasons. It treats then like real human beings instead of a project. It encourages them be expressive, which is part of being fully human. And a one night a month project would get volunteers where a weekly obligation wouldn't.
I also appreciate the reminder to, however inadequately, JUST LOVE THEM. Too often we try to solve problems with mere physical tools, but we are more than physical beings. As churches we should have something to offer that no secular agency can. Soup kitchens are needed and great, but we have something unique to offer -- God's love, not thru enforced attendance at a formal worship program but through personal acceptance as a valid human being. Sometimes that's a deeper need than a meal.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
But I still believe something is better than nothing. Do what you can, in some small way.
Absolutely. I guess all I'd add to the excellent suggestions about welcoming the homeless is that one element of sustaining a long-term welcome to the homeless is pastoral care for people involved in the ministry. That might for instance take the form of them meeting to pray together and de-brief. Helping needy people can be both extremely rewarding and extremely draining.
As for the larger issue, I can only say what I think needs to happen in the U.S., but here I think our society will have to undergo a fundamental change in its values if we are to end homelessness. Cliffdweller notes that homelessness is a failure of community, and that
quote:
The most important component to a "cure" for homelessness is restoring community-- connecting them to a stable community and resources.
Community will need to be a stronger value in the U.S., where individualism is paramount, for there to be an end to homelessness. When we are downright affronted as a people at the fact that there are folks among us who have to relieve themselves in whatever shrubbery they can find, when this violates our sense of ourselves as decent people and becomes unacceptable, then we will end homelessness. If I were to choose just one Christian teaching to promulgate to our society, it would be the story of the good Samaritan. When community means everyone, when we recognize the stranger as our neighbor, we won't have homelessness anymore.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Just to add to the idea that there are many ways to be involved in helping the homeless besides having a shelter... here's what one very small, very poor church here in L.A.'s skid row is doing:
homeless karaoke
I went to this as a karaoke virgin, and must tell you, it is amazing-- lots of joy, and a real sense of community. The homeless begin lining up more than an hour before they open the doors, and the place is packed. If you're ever in L.A. on a Wed. night, be sure to stop by.
That is super awesome!
One of our meal guests suggested a talent show, so I'm going to be floating that and karaoke back up to the deacon and our "umbrella org". I know I don't have the cycles or the skills to put it on, but someone might!
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
In my city, there are no bathrooms downtown outside of private businesses for people to use when the public library is closed. The local homeless advocates coalition lobbied the city council to provide porta-potties so homeless people wouldn't have to relieve themselves in public, and they refused on the grounds that they didn't have the money. The coalition said they could raise the money, and the city council still refused, on the grounds that it wouldn't be sanitary.
Jesus wept.
quote:
So the homeless still relieve themselves in public.
People in the apartment building across the street from the church I work at occasionally call me up in the church office and say someone is defecating on the sidewalk and ask why we don't let them in to use the bathroom. I have taken to telling them that they should let the homeless into their homes to use the bathroom.
Maybe you could start also telling them to lobby their city council member. Keeping a photoblog of the incidents might help turn the heat up. quote:
Turns out they just don't feel comfortable letting in strangers -- they haven't even thought about the clean-up issues involved when people who are eating out of dumpsters use the toilet.
One of the Starbucks downtown ended up closing off its bathrooms (employees are allowed into the movie theatre next door) because a subset of the local street population was using them for shooting up heroin. This was total biohazard city ... blood and excrement all over the bathroom floor.
Then there are the folks who are trying to bathe themselves ... with plumbing that isn't set up for that. Our bathroom is regularly flooded out during our free meal by someone who tries doing this. (I will note that the other guests give the guy who does this a bad time.)
We've had a couple of "oh God this is bad" cleanup incidents, even with a bathroom open under 3 hours for our meal. One of our assisting clergy (non-stipendary ... he is not getting paid to do this) is a saint, I tell you. Our janitor is also very, very good but he is not always around after the free meal, which is 100% volunteer-run.
The interfaith group my congregation is a part of is pushing for improvements (including longer hours and better security) on the actual city-run public toilets, and an actual daytime service center connected with a shelter. I was at a meeting recently where one of the councilmembers publicly committed to advocating for the new shelter (and I know a couple of others are already on board). Unfortunately given the "I've got mine, don't change anything else" attitude around here, it will be YEARS before it gets built.
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Cliffdweller notes that homelessness is a failure of community, and that
quote:
The most important component to a "cure" for homelessness is restoring community-- connecting them to a stable community and resources.
Community will need to be a stronger value in the U.S., where individualism is paramount, for there to be an end to homelessness.
I agree that restoring community will be a great help to most homelss; however I also think that some homeless people value their independence so highly that they do not want to be connected to a stable community.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
In my local town there is one loo with handwashing facilities that is open 24/7, so when all the others are closed there is somewhere that people can go, even though there is the chance that it might get messed up or vandalised. I feel sad to discover this is not so everywhere.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
I love the karaoke idea! It must be refreshing for all involved.
Absolutely love it! For so many reasons. It treats then like real human beings instead of a project. It encourages them be expressive, which is part of being fully human. And a one night a month project would get volunteers where a weekly obligation wouldn't.
I also appreciate the reminder to, however inadequately, JUST LOVE THEM. Too often we try to solve problems with mere physical tools, but we are more than physical beings. As churches we should have something to offer that no secular agency can. Soup kitchens are needed and great, but we have something unique to offer -- God's love, not thru enforced attendance at a formal worship program but through personal acceptance as a valid human being. Sometimes that's a deeper need than a meal.
Spot on.
For me, it got me thinking past the mundanity of just feeding the body and thinking about what it would be like to be on the streets 24/7. No TV, no computer to waste hours on the Ship. No job. What would you do all day? Feeding the mind & soul is every bit as important as the body-- as evidenced by the long lines.
It also allowed us to relate to them as peers. Instead of us being the givers and them the takers, they were able to shepherd me (a karaoke virgin) into the logistics. It was a lovely atmosphere for it too-- very supportive. Heard everything from horribly inept, off-key singing (me) to some who oughta be on Broadway (the fabulous diva trannie who MC'ed). All were appreciated, applauded, celebrated.
We took our youth last summer and they cannot wait to return.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
But I still believe something is better than nothing. Do what you can, in some small way.
Absolutely. I guess all I'd add to the excellent suggestions about welcoming the homeless is that one element of sustaining a long-term welcome to the homeless is pastoral care for people involved in the ministry. That might for instance take the form of them meeting to pray together and de-brief. Helping needy people can be both extremely rewarding and extremely draining.
As for the larger issue, I can only say what I think needs to happen in the U.S., but here I think our society will have to undergo a fundamental change in its values if we are to end homelessness. Cliffdweller notes that homelessness is a failure of community, and that
quote:
The most important component to a "cure" for homelessness is restoring community-- connecting them to a stable community and resources.
Community will need to be a stronger value in the U.S., where individualism is paramount, for there to be an end to homelessness. When we are downright affronted as a people at the fact that there are folks among us who have to relieve themselves in whatever shrubbery they can find, when this violates our sense of ourselves as decent people and becomes unacceptable, then we will end homelessness. If I were to choose just one Christian teaching to promulgate to our society, it would be the story of the good Samaritan. When community means everyone, when we recognize the stranger as our neighbor, we won't have homelessness anymore.
Excellent. You are absolutely right on both counts.
It's interesting to me that when I travel to central AFrica, I see much more severe poverty than I see here in L.A., but far less homelessness. Ruth's insight points out why-- in Africa the kind of individualism we embrace here in the US is unheard of. People have nothing, but if they have a home and their neighbor does not, they will share it. In some villages that we have visited, virtually every home has at least one orphan they have taken in. It's just understood.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I agree that restoring community will be a great help to most homelss; however I also think that some homeless people value their independence so highly that they do not want to be connected to a stable community.
This is the case for a few people, but I think there are many more who don't want to pay the price we frequently attach to that re-connection. Negotiating the services available for homeless people is like getting through an arduous obstacle course, and the agencies that provide help frequently have rules and requirements that rather regiment people. Now, they nearly always have very good reasons for this, but nevertheless homeless people who want help are subject to a degree of control that I certainly don't have to deal with to get through my life.
Just one example: at home, I come and go as I please. Shelters typically do not allow this; past a certain point in the evening, you cannot leave. I can certainly see why shelters have this rule, but at the same time, I'm struck by the fact that people who have dropped out or been shut out of community have less independence if they want to sleep indoors than someone like me who is very much ensconced in a community.
Almost all homeless people do want community, I think. Very few people are true hermits. Many homeless people form communities, after all, and they do it in very difficult circumstances. If we're saying, "Oh, this guy doesn't want to be part of a community," or "that woman only wants to be part of a community on her own terms," we should look at how hard we make it for them to be part of our community and recognize that we all have our own terms for accepting the bonds of community. If I faced as many barriers to being accepted into the local community as some people do, I might say "screw it" and go my own road.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Yes, I agree. Desiring autonomy-- the ability to make your own decisions, even better to support yourself and not depend on others-- is not the same thing as isolation.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
... I agree that restoring community will be a great help to most homelss; however I also think that some homeless people value their independence so highly that they do not want to be connected to a stable community.
Moo
Untreated mental illness and fetal alcohol syndrome can plays a factor in avoiding shelters or more secure housing. Recovering addicts will avoid shelters because they don't want to be with people who are still using or selling. Then there's the issue of whether shelters allow shopping carts and pets. And at least one guy told me that he never goes to the shelters because that's where the government is putting chips into people to track them. People with FAS are known to have poor judgment and be vulnerable to exploitation. Many of these people simply don't have the ability to live independently in the community if they wanted to - they lose their keys or get into fights or forget to pay the rent or bring a snake home and they just get evicted again. In a better world, they would get psychiatric care and supportive housing, and perhaps eventually real independence. Instead, it's jail and the street. OliviaG
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sir Pellinore
Quester Emeritus
# 12163
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Posted
I remember, during my working life, Olivia G, an intelligent young woman doctor telling us that most people in Australian prisons had some sort of serious mental problem.
The figures on the homeless in Australia tell a similar story.
Quite bizarre really, we "de-institutionalised" mental health patients (admittedly some Australian mental hospitals were horrific) and "returned them to the community" without any genuine support.
The mentally ill, homeless and imprisoned, tell us something rather horrible about our modern "community".
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Well...
Posts: 5108 | From: The Deep North, Oz | Registered: Dec 2006
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd):
...most people in Australian prisons had some sort of serious mental problem. The figures on the homeless in Australia tell a similar story.
Quite bizarre really, we "de-institutionalised" mental health patients (admittedly some Australian mental hospitals were horrific) and "returned them to the community" without any genuine support.
The mentally ill, homeless and imprisoned, tell us something rather horrible about our modern "community".
Not just de-institutionalized and put them on the street homeless, but a lot of laws seem targeted at making homelessness a crime, as if people are choosing to sleep in the park instead of being middle class home owners.
If it's illegal to live in someone's garden shed (with permission ) because that doesn't meet all the standards of "habitability," not allowed to sleep outdoors in the park, not allowed to pitch a tent in a state park for more than two weeks -- just where are they supposed to sleep? It's as if sleeping is illegal if you are homeless.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
I at one time belonged to a busy downtown church with a number of homeless people nearby.
We found it very very important for all of us clergy to get to know those who often came around . Often just taking a minute to say hello made all the difference.
We closed off one inside bathroom and opened it from the outside, thus people could use the restroom without going inside the building and when the church was closed. We found for the most part they did a great job of self policing in keeping it clean. so we would continue to allow people to use it. We hired one of the homeless regulars to look after it twice a day.
We gave them a sit down supper twice a month. Again we had some of the homeless helping out and things ran well with only one call for police needed in over 8 years. Again I think it was because many in the church got to know people and they became our friends as well. A number of the homeless joined us in worship on Sunday morning.
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Graven Image:
I at one time belonged to a busy downtown church with a number of homeless people nearby.
We found it very very important for all of us clergy to get to know those who often came around . Often just taking a minute to say hello made all the difference.
We closed off one inside bathroom and opened it from the outside, thus people could use the restroom without going inside the building and when the church was closed. We found for the most part they did a great job of self policing in keeping it clean. so we would continue to allow people to use it. We hired one of the homeless regulars to look after it twice a day.
We gave them a sit down supper twice a month. Again we had some of the homeless helping out and things ran well with only one call for police needed in over 8 years. Again I think it was because many in the church got to know people and they became our friends as well. A number of the homeless joined us in worship on Sunday morning.
I love this quote from Shane Claiborne's The Irresistible Revolution
quote:
"I asked participants who claimed to be 'strong followers of Jesus' whether Jesus spent time with the poor. Nearly 80% said yes. Later in the survey, I sneaked in another question. I asked this same group of strong followers whether they spent time with the poor, and less than 2% said they did. I learned a powerful lesson: We can admire and worship Jesus w/o doing what he did. We can applaud what he preached and stood for w/o caring about the same things. We can adore his cross w/o taking up ours. I had come to see the great tragedy in the church is not that rich Christians do not care about the poor but that rich Christians do not know the poor."
I used to read it to my students every semester, full of smug self-righteousness... until I realized every night when I leave work, I walk by a line of homeless men, women and children lined up to enter our shelter, and I didn't know a single one of their names.
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
I'm working on changing that, but I've got a long way to go.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Sir Pellinore
Quester Emeritus
# 12163
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Posted
I think, Belle Ringer, many modern Westerners regard poverty and homelessness as a sort of "sin" against society. This attitude seems particularly harsh when dealing with ethnic minorities, such as Australian Aboriginals, whose whole culture was collective and non-materialist. Poor and homeless people are often regarded as suffering the consequences of their own consciously bad behaviour. Were it that simple! I am always reminded of the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
Well, Graven Image, I think your church did much, both practically and in terms of acknowledging individual homeless people as people. Much social welfare "advocacy" seems to discount the personal and looks at hypothetical "problems". Not much genuine charity there.
cliffdweller, you're indeed privileged to realise the "problem" is not about devalued "prayer" or talk. Your experience mirrors my own. "Ask not for whom the bell tolls..."
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Well...
Posts: 5108 | From: The Deep North, Oz | Registered: Dec 2006
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