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Source: (consider it) Thread: Compulsory games
Aggie
Ship's cat
# 4385

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I loathed P.E for most of my years at school, as it was for the most part competitive games, which I was no good at. There were one or two "sadistic" P.E teachers who used to ask their 2 favourite/star pupils to pick teams from the rest of the class. I was always chosen last, and in fact the the 2 team leaders used to argue over who had me in their team (I.e., neither wanted me at all!)

However latterly, a new P.E teacher was employed at my school, who made the options more flexible, whereby those of us who hated competitive games could opt to to do aerobics, swimming, canoeing or dance instead. I chose swimming and canoeing which I really enjoyed (and still do!!).

Archery would have been fun to do, but it wasn't offered at school. As an adult I do archery, and really enjoy it, and though I say it myself I am a good shot. (Next Olympics here I come ...)

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“I see his blood upon the rose
And in the stars the glory of his eyes,
His body gleams amid eternal snows,
His tears fall from the skies.”
(Joseph Mary Plunkett 1887-1917)

Posts: 581 | From: A crazy, crazy world | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
monkeylizard

Ship's scurvy
# 952

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I think Vulpior is on to something. So much of PE is spent on playing the sports and too little on the underlying skills. For example, I understand how to play baseball, but that doesn't make my fastball go beyond 35mph. For me, I was so small/thin that when other kids were learning to swing a bat, throw a spiral, etc, I just wasn't capable of doing those things right. By the time I was able to, I was expected to already know those skills and be applying them in team sports.

I did get to do archery a few times in PE and really enjoyed it. The coach approached it from the perspective of "everyone's a beginner". It's such an odd activity, that for the most part, that was true. We started with basic things like stringing the bow properly, having a good stance, keeping extraneous fingers out of the way of the fletching, etc. Why that same coach assumed that I knew how to catch a baseball without using my face is beyond me.

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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. ~ Herbert Spencer (1820 - 1903)

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Enigma

Enigma
# 16158

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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Wales. Endless Rugby (no football at all). Spent most of my teens muddy, damp, bruised and cold. One way or another.

Funny from nearly 50 it seems like it was all fun. How daft.

AtB Pyx_e

Still is - never played, never wanted to, always enjoyed. WAYL-ES, WAYL-ES, or WAY-LES WAY-LES WAY-LES. (Depending where you come from). [Smile]

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Who knows? Only God!

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Ceannaideach
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# 12007

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Surprisingly for someone of my weight I actually enjoyed P.E. Especially the team games - hockey, netball, rounders. Going so far as to join the house matches in year 10.

For my height I was fairly competent at Basketball, hated gymnastics and track athletics, especially as the track was over on the boys half of the field and we had to run past them. Oh the joys.

Couldn't do high jump for the life of me - in fact the few times we were forced to do it I turned it into a limbo contest. Wouldn't have minded long jump if the locals cats hadn't used the sand as their litter box. Javelin and shot put I loved. Discus was difficult as I couldn't fit my hand over the disc, so would generally try to frisbee the thing if the teacher wasn't looking. (Didn't work as well as I thought it would.)

The one sport that I loved above all was fencing. It was a lunchtime extra curricular activity but I was there every week. Represented the school a few times so got colours to wear on my blazer. And that provided my younger self with much smug satisfaction - to be a tubby kid with a number of sporting colours greater or equal to the skinnier, sportier kids. [Big Grin] [Razz]

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"I dream of the day when I will learn to stop asking questions for which I will regret learning the answers." - Roy Greenhilt OOTS

Posts: 199 | From: Shakespeare's County | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
I could never understand why they played the same game twice.

It might be the same sport, but it's never the same game.
Sport is what games turn in to when you can be punished for not playing them. At least at school.

For us that meant sport was football. You had to do it, you could be punished for not doing it. Worse than that, you could be punished for doign it badly, or even for doing it moderately but not enjoying it. We were boys. Boys were meant to enjoy games. So if you didn't that meant that you were being cheeky, taking the piss. You could get yelled at for not having fun.

Of course we did enjoy the games we played off our own accord in the breaks and at lunchtime. But they weren't compulsory.

Things changed in the sixth form. The teachers said that sport was still compulsory, that it was the law that we had to play team games (I'm not sure taht it was really, but it was as far as our swchool was concerned) but now we were older we were allowed to choose our own. So some of us who were crap at sport asked if we could play rugby. And we had a great time. Its more fun than ordinary football anyway, buit more important we'd chosen to do it ourselves, and we weren't expected to be any good at it or to compete. And as the sportier ones were still doing football we had a chance to play rather than stumble across the pitch getting yelled at while the ones who know what they were doing got on with the serious business of winning.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Aggie:
There were one or two "sadistic" P.E teachers who used to ask their 2 favourite/star pupils to pick teams from the rest of the class.

All our team sports were like that. Every week, term after term, year after year. Not just the sadistic teachers. All of them. That was how school sport was done.

There were, say, three or four games of football on a Wednesday afternoon. If it was your turn to do football, you had to do football. The teachers chose the sides for the A game, who were the boys who might have a chance at being picked to play for the school. They also appointed a boy to be captain of each team for the other games. Those captains took turn top pick players. Everyone had to play, so the last few - maybe the last fifteen to twenty or so out of 90 in the year group (three classes of thirty) were unpopular. They didn't want you, you didn't want to be there

I went to a boys grammar school in the 1960s and 1970s. But this sort of thing still went on at the London comprehensive school my daugther was at at in this century.

quote:
Originally posted by Aggie:
I was always chosen last, and in fact the the 2 team leaders used to argue over who had me in their team (I.e., neither wanted me at all!)

Yes. Just l;ike our school. It was almost always the same kids chosen last each time. First the good at sport were chosen. Then the merely keen. Then the normally fit but didn't like sport (or didn't like this sport). Then the halt and the lame and the blind. I was severely asthmatic and (believe it or not to look at me now) very skinny and weedy. I was usually somewhere between third and fifth from bottom.

The very last one or two would be those who were most unpopular, who no-one wanted to be with, the social rejects. Not neccessarily the very worst at sport (though never particularly good at it, as being good at sport was enough to make you popular) but the current fashionable victim of bullying. There is almost always at least one in a school year, someone who is chosen by the majority to be bullied, and who its social death to befriend. Often but not always they are a socially inadequate, inarticulate, nerdy, sort of person, but it can happen to pretty much anyone.

The aocially defined victim role does swap around a bit. It was sometimes me, but there were another two or three who got it even worse than I did. To my shame I can only remember one of their names (someone who did becaome a friend of mine) - but I know perfectly well there were others who I can;t remember. Even if you weren't an active bully (and I guess at least half of the kids weren't) you still didn't pay attention to those people. Even if - especially if - you were at risk of being one of them yourself. They became socially invisible.

So school sport functioned as a sort of score card of the pecking order. The very visible, very public, repeated rankings in order, mixing sporting ability with popularity - not that they were distinct categories - made it clear who was in and who was out.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Angloid
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# 159

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I hated, hated, hated games at school. As it was a grammar school with pretensions above its station that meant rugby and cricket. (Tennis seemed to be an option for favoured sixth formers). I hated them because I was useless at them, nor could I see the point, and still can't. I can see the point of physical fitness but games, if you don't enjoy them, seem a very inefficient way to get fit.
What I did quite like was cross country running. I was never any good at that either, but I think that is because running was seen as the soft option and the way the school dealt with the fatties and the skivers, so that the peer pressure was on you to walk around the course rather than run. If I'd had the moral courage (or the physical stamina) to break away from the pack and run, I might have become quite good and even fit.
Being made to (keep the) score at cricket was no consolation; it kept me off the pitch but revealed my second greatest weakness: maths.

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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!

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Darllenwr
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# 14520

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I arrived in a Midland boys Grammar School aged 11 in 1972. At the time, I weighed just under 4 stone (56 pounds or about 20kg, if that helps) and was severely short-sighted. It isn't the best specification for playing Rugby ...

It is difficult to convey the depth of my loathing for Rugby, from the perspective of a player, other than by observing that I could never see the attraction of being ground, face-down, into 2 inches of marginally above freezing mud, then having to regain one's feet in half a gale of wind fresh from the local gas works. Our playing field had been sited with a very profound concern for our physical well-being, as the corporation gas works was quite literally next-door, and we were down-wind on the prevailing wind side.

In spite of being, after a fashion, inner-city, we were sent on 'cross-country' runs. These included running across the fringes of the local open-cast colliery (some very interesting smells there), along the tow path of the Stourbridge Canal (more interesting smells, and a remarkable mud) and down Brettle Lane (where every lamp-post was thick with industrial soot). It was interesting to reflect upon what we were breathing in. Oddly enough, I usually managed to come in around the 30 out of 90 mark on these outings, but I won't claim to have enjoyed running - it was just infinitely preferable to Rugby.

Sports I liked? Very few. I was keen on sailing, but seldom had the chance (long and very bitter story attached to that; PM me if interested) and Badminton was OK. Otherwise, I settled for the School's idea of golf (which was essentially pitch-and-putt) as it got me out of the view of the games master and won me a couple of hours of relative peace and quiet.

I should add that the possibility of any game other than Rugby in the winter and Cricket/Athletics in the summer only arose in the 6th form.

Oddly enough, I became quite proficient at cricket scoring - it saved me from having to face a small, hard, very fast, ball that I couldn't actually see until it was about to hit me ...

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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!

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Stejjie
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# 13941

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I empathise completely with your loathing of rugby, Darllenwr. I was a complete wuss at school and hated, hated rugby, especially as the huge, "isn't he 18"-type lad was always on the opposition team to me. In fact, I'm sure I shot more than a few envious glances towards the girls playing netball - that looked a lot safer... (Rugby and netball were they only sports we were divided into boys and girls for at secondary school).

I didn't enjoy PE much at all, in fact, which is probably what makes me react so negatively to the government's proposals. When we did football, I was always stuck in goal despite my complete aversion to having to put my un-gloved hands up to save a wet, heavy leather ball.

The only time I definitely remember enjoying PE was when we did volleyball one year. We weren't being taught new skills or the rules, we just spent each of the 6 or however may weeks we were doing it playing mini-matches. And I was on a team that actually won nearly all of our games (even with me on it!). Better than that, the girl in my class who I fancied was on it as well. And, best of all, they let us keep that team every week. So, I got to be on a good team and be on the same team as my then sweetheart (sadly, it was unrequited). It was fab! [Big Grin]

The rest of the time, it was pretty miserable. Surely the point of PE at school should be to encourage children to find a type of exercise and physical activity that suits them, not force them into the "competitive games" mold. That way, surely they'd find fitness levels increasing and more people doing exercise. Or am I just being daft?

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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist

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Matariki
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# 14380

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Though I was a good swimmer I generally hated P.E. loathed team games, despised the P.E. teachers who were bullies and a school culture which rewarded boys who were as thick as pigshit but knew what to do with a football. Later came to realise its not the sport but the boorishness which it is so often packaged in that I really find objectionable.
Now I live in New Zealand where Rugby is almost a religion and I have learned to feign interest. Once made the mistake of saying "it's only a game" after an All Black loss!!!!

[ 15. August 2012, 18:08: Message edited by: Matariki ]

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"Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accompanied alone; therefore we are saved by love." Reinhold Niebuhr.

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WhateverTheySay
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# 16598

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I hated PE. Sport just isn't my thing at all. I'm not social, and I don't have a competitive bone in my body.

Plus there was the horror of the communal changing rooms. I remember it taking so long to actually change clothes because all I wanted was to stay covered.

To be honest I think I would have preferred to spend the time learning to play the drums, or some other fun way to get out frustration and energy (which at school I had none of because I didn't ever get enough sleep, I'm a night owl and always have been).

I didn't mind badminton so much when I only played for fun, but I even hated that when it got competitive.

I also hated sports day. Competing for 'houses' to which I had zero attachment was even worse than competing for myself. And they made it compulsory that everyone had to take part. To reduce the misery as much as possible, I always volunteered for the throwing events. To me the only possible advantage of sports day was if I managed to miss French.

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I'm not lost, I just don't know where I am going

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Eigon
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# 4917

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I never minded PE at junior school much - but when I got to secondary school, I deliberately failed my hockey test. I had no intention of going out in a field with all those girls who really meant it when they aimed for your shins with their sticks!
I would have loved to have done javelin or discus, which were available, but only for the girls who were good at games already (obviously not me - I always chickened out of jumping the hurdles, because it hurt when you knocked them over). I would have liked to have tried ping pong (not available until the fifth year) or tennis (ditto - by which time most of the girls who chose the tennis option spent the afternoons sunbathing out of view of the PE mistress, while I banged away with the ball on the wall of the gym.). We had fencing equipment in the school, left over from when we had a sixth form - that, and archery, would have been wonderful. I'd wanted to be Errol Flynn since I was about six!

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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.

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Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

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quote:
Originally posted by WhateverTheySay:
Plus there was the horror of the communal changing rooms. I remember it taking so long to actually change clothes because all I wanted was to stay covered.

When my daughters were in school we lived in New Hampshire, where the winters are very cold. My older daughter was slim and did not have the layer of insulating fat that most people have.

When she was in elementary school she always wore undershirts; when she needed new ones she told me. When she got to junior high school she had to change for gym, and she didn't want anyone to see her in an undershirt.

After a few months of cold weather and no undershirt, she started getting bronchitis. She had attacks of bronchitis for the rest of her school years in New Hampshire.

Moo

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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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I had asthma and grass allergy when I was in school, doing PE 5 days a week. So naturally they made me run over freshly cut grass.

It alarmed the teacher when I turned purple, but not enough for her to call anyone for help. [Disappointed] Or for them to let me off PE either.

And naturally I took over twice as long in the running as anyone else (the shame!)

Did I mention the twisted leg (present from birth) and the joint disorder?

I am SO FREAKING GLAD to be out of PE.

[ 16. August 2012, 00:37: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Edith
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# 16978

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I loathed it too. At my convent grammar school in the 50s my best friend and I used to disappear into the local park to avoid hockey, even the dirty old men we met from time to time (and learned how to run away from) were better that that. Happily both my children had a much better experience at their comprehensive in the 90s. My daughter memorably came third in the inter schools cross country, and when congratulated said 'Oh I might have done better, but I met a lovely collie dog on the way and I stopped to stroke her'. That's my girl.

Interesting that so many people on this thread disliked sport. Does it go with an interest in religious matters?

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Edith

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Spike

Mostly Harmless
# 36

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quote:
Originally posted by Edith:
Interesting that so many people on this thread disliked sport. Does it go with an interest in religious matters?

I think it's more to do with the fact that those of us who dislike sport have the ability to read and write [Devil]

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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I think it's more to do with the fact that those of us who dislike sport have the ability to read and write [Devil]

Got ready to click the 'like' button, then realised the ship doesn't have one. (If I spent more time doing sport instead of reading/posting on Facebook, I wouldn't have made that mistake.)

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I think it's more to do with the fact that those of us who dislike sport have the ability to read and write [Devil]

It's not an either/or thing, you know.

Marvin
School Colours in two different sports AND good GCSE/A-Level results

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jane R
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# 331

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quote:
a new P.E teacher was employed at my school, who made the options more flexible, whereby those of us who hated competitive games could opt to to do aerobics, swimming, canoeing or dance instead.
This is how it should be done. I hated sport at school, mainly because the teachers were the standard sadists (only interested in coaching the ones who were already good). The only thing I ever got into the school team for was netball and I wasn't much good at that (nor were the rest of the team). I quite liked swimming, although I wasn't very good at it - once you had learned how to keep yourself afloat you were basically left to get on with it. There was none of this teaching you the best techniques for each stroke and developing your skills that my daughter is getting from her swimming teacher now.

Outside school I did dancing and horseriding and cycling, all of which I enjoyed. I'd have liked the chance to try fencing, trampolining or badminton (I played badminton and squash at university for fun). As an adult I do aerobics, yoga and weight-training. I'd probably have enjoyed school PE more if we'd been allowed to do things like dancing and aerobics - despite what some Tory politicians might think, most dancing DOES count as physical exercise. And teenage girls (and boys) have enough insecurities anyway without having to contend with being picked on for not being good at a team sport that they don't want to do when there are plenty of other ways they can keep fit.

Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:


Marvin
School Colours in two different sports AND good GCSE/A-Level results

It was easier for you - lower gravity on Mars. We had to struggle just to get up in the mornings. [Snore]

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pine Marten
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# 11068

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quote:
Originally posted by WhateverTheySay:

I also hated sports day. Competing for 'houses' to which I had zero attachment was even worse than competing for myself. And they made it compulsory that everyone had to take part. To reduce the misery as much as possible, I always volunteered for the throwing events. To me the only possible advantage of sports day was if I managed to miss French.

Although I hated sports I actually quite liked sports day. I always managed to lose at whatever sport I'd put in for in the run-up, so come sports day I wasn't put into any of the events [Biased] . Instead I and my like-minded friends lounged on the grass in the sun watching the other poor suckers sweat around the track... ah! the memories [Razz]

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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde

Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
quote:
Originally posted by WhateverTheySay:

I also hated sports day. Competing for 'houses' to which I had zero attachment was even worse than competing for myself. And they made it compulsory that everyone had to take part. To reduce the misery as much as possible, I always volunteered for the throwing events. To me the only possible advantage of sports day was if I managed to miss French.

Although I hated sports I actually quite liked sports day. I always managed to lose at whatever sport I'd put in for in the run-up, so come sports day I wasn't put into any of the events [Biased] . Instead I and my like-minded friends lounged on the grass in the sun watching the other poor suckers sweat around the track... ah! the memories [Razz]
If you absolutely have to compete then the discus and most especially the shot put, are the best. If you are crap at those, just show up, lob the thing three times and the rest of the day is your own.

The javelin is another matter: dodgy shoulder anyone? Looks really good if someone can throw it properly though!

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Kitten
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# 1179

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Participation in Sports Day was mandetory at my Grammar school, but in my last year I managed to avoid it by volunteering to help with the score keeping. I got to spend the afternoon sitting at a table in the middle of the sports field under the sghade od a parasol writing down numbers. I got to wear normal clothes and sunglasses and, because it was a warm day, people kept bringing me cooling drinks. Best Sports Day ever [Big Grin]

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Maius intra qua extra

Never accept a ride from a stranger, unless they are in a big blue box

Posts: 2330 | From: Carmarthenshire | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I think it's more to do with the fact that those of us who dislike sport have the ability to read and write [Devil]

It's not an either/or thing, you know.

Marvin
School Colours in two different sports AND good GCSE/A-Level results

I got a four-year varsity letter award at the end of High School for Cross Country, despite the fact that, as I said earlier, I wasn't very good at it. (It was really satisfying getting on the stage at the end of the year award assembly with the kids from my class who were recruited to play soccer for large universities. Yes, I still have that award on my desk at home.) Our school required students to do two seasons of sports, but there were so many options in the fall that we usually only had six (at most) boys on the team in any year. So if you showed up, you were on the varsity team. The team was usually made up of folks who had to go directly to theater rehearsal after practice, and we had a lot of discussions about the literary magazine editorial policy on the bus to races. I think you lot might have fit in nicely.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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leo
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So much for Tory hype. In today’s edition of The Week, I reads that according to The Observer, funding for the School Sports Partnerships scheme, aimed at increasing team sports, particularly in primary schools, is being cut from £162m to £65m next year.

Also, according to The Financial Times, the purpose of school sports is not to churn out medallists, but "to accustom children to exercise as part of a healthy lifestyle and teach them that it can be fun". For many children, the "dance and yoga classes Cameron decries may achieve more than an old-fashioned regime of mud, sweat and cold showers".

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Sighthound
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It saddens me that in the early 21st Century we are still forcing children and young people to indulge in these pointless 'sports' against their will, just because Someone thinks it's a good idea.

I should like to introduce compulsory team games for MPs. Preferably jousting with sharp spears. It would undoubtedly be good for them, and bring out qualities of courage, resilience and fair play. They need to develop these qualities far more than innocent children do.

[ 17. August 2012, 14:45: Message edited by: Sighthound ]

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
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quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
It saddens me that in the early 21st Century we are still forcing children and young people to indulge in these pointless 'sports' against their will, just because Someone thinks it's a good idea.

Well, we force them to learn a bunch of pointless shit about other subjects against their will. What's one more?

Or do you define "pointless" as "things I don't see the point in"?

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Sighthound
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I actually dislike the whole coercive element of school, and I agree that far too many subjects are compulsory, not just sport/games. If I were in charge I would scrap the national Curriculum tomorrow and enforce only the study of English and Maths (plus Welsh in Wales, but that's a devolved matter anyway.)

However, there is a difference between being bad at Maths and hating it (especially as some limited understanding of Maths is virtually essential to survive in life) and enduring from 11-18 weekly ritual humiliation because you are bad at football/cricket/rugby/whatever (especially given that the ability to play these games is by no manner of means an essential life skill.) In Maths you may be put in a remedial class and helped to do the hard sums. In the world of sport, no such concept exists. You're either good at it, or you're not a worthwhile human being but an object of ridicule. Were it otherwise, fewer people would grow up hating the very name of sport. Do you not see how self-defeating this customary process has been?

[ 17. August 2012, 15:36: Message edited by: Sighthound ]

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Posts: 168 | From: England | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
snowgoose

Silly goose
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I am quite nearsighted; in fact, one eye is very nearsighted and the other is appallingly nearsighted. Because of the difference between the two, I only use one eye at a time, so I have no depth perception. Thus I am total crap at anything involving a ball, which was most of what they did in PE at my school.

I HATE team sports.

When I was in (Navy) Officer Candidate School we had "mandatory fun" on Saturdays but I pretty much got out of it by being a volleyball referee. Of course, they ran and marched us all over the place as well, but that wasn't as bad.

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ken
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# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
It saddens me that in the early 21st Century we are still forcing children and young people to indulge in these pointless 'sports' against their will, just because Someone thinks it's a good idea.

Well, we force them to learn a bunch of pointless shit about other subjects against their will. What's one more?

But we don't force them to line up against a wall and get insulted or mocked by their classmates and teadchers if they aren't good enough at those other subjects.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
In Maths you may be put in a remedial class and helped to do the hard sums. In the world of sport, no such concept exists.

On the contrary, the world of football (for example) has several different levels of ability into which players can fall. They range from the Premiership (Manchester United et al) right down to the Mid-Sussex Football League Division 11 (home of the mighty Hassocks Hornets) - a full 24 "streams" that players can fit into.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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sebby
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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
It saddens me that in the early 21st Century we are still forcing children and young people to indulge in these pointless 'sports' against their will, just because Someone thinks it's a good idea.

Well, we force them to learn a bunch of pointless shit about other subjects against their will. What's one more?

But we don't force them to line up against a wall and get insulted or mocked by their classmates and teadchers if they aren't good enough at those other subjects.
I disliked compulsory 'games' at school for exactly that reason, and their silly competitiveness.

And given the sort of person who used to jeer and mock, I wish the same procedure had been in place in, say, English or Latin lessons.

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sebhyatt

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Darllenwr
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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
It saddens me that in the early 21st Century we are still forcing children and young people to indulge in these pointless 'sports' against their will, just because Someone thinks it's a good idea.

Well, we force them to learn a bunch of pointless shit about other subjects against their will. What's one more?

But we don't force them to line up against a wall and get insulted or mocked by their classmates and teadchers if they aren't good enough at those other subjects.
[Overused]

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Penny S
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The only PE lessons I liked were the last ones of term when we played Pirates. This has now been forbidden by the elfin safety bods, but I used to provide something similar when I was teaching. It used the "get all the apparatus out and arrange it round the gym" element, and suggested that the children found the most interesting way of visiting all the stuff without putting their feet on the floor (mats provided at difficult places).

For those not familiar with the game, the apparatus was used for a chase game, in which players were either captured, or got themselves out by putting feet on the floor.

It was something I was good at, despite not finding rope swinging all that easy, because I could think my way around, and escape being caught, and then trap people when I was chasing. (Unless this was all a delusion, and they were letting me become the pirate so I didn't catch them and they had more time on the apparatus. Never mind, I enjoyed it.)

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ken
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
They range from the Premiership (Manchester United et al) right down to the Mid-Sussex Football League Division 11 (home of the mighty Hassocks Hornets) - a full 24 "streams" that players can fit into.

That last league is actually lower down the Sussex leagues than some teams that are, or were until recently, made up largely of people who were at school with me and are now in their fifties.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Angloid
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quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
In Maths you may be put in a remedial class and helped to do the hard sums. In the world of sport, no such concept exists. You're either good at it, or you're not a worthwhile human being but an object of ridicule.

Exactly. I can understand the need for compulsory PE (provided that sort of 'remedial' attention is given). Team games should be voluntary, with alternatives that might provided the equivalent in physical activity or even just mental challenge (chess for example).

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Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
...and their silly competitiveness.

What's wrong with competitiveness?

quote:
Originally posted by ken:
That last league is actually lower down the Sussex leagues than some teams that are, or were until recently, made up largely of people who were at school with me and are now in their fifties.

My point exactly.

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
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quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
I can understand the need for compulsory PE (provided that sort of 'remedial' attention is given). Team games should be voluntary

If team games are voluntary, how are you going to find out which kids need 'remedial' attention?

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
I can understand the need for compulsory PE (provided that sort of 'remedial' attention is given). Team games should be voluntary

If team games are voluntary, how are you going to find out which kids need 'remedial' attention?
Because they are doing P.E.

Simple really!

Jengie

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Back to my blog

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Welease Woderwick

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
...and their silly competitiveness.

What's wrong with competitiveness?
Nothing in and of itself as long as you don't make it applicable to everyone; some people loathe and detest it.

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North East Quine

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Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
I really wanted to play Lacrosse, like those 'gels' from Malory Towers,
Me, too! I had no idea what lacrosse actually was, but everything at Malory Towers appealed to me. I also wanted to skate across a frozen lake, as they did at the Chalet School, followed, of course, by hot chocolate and cakes....

We were taught ceilidh dancing at school, which had huge potential for enjoyment. However, the teachers lined the girls up against one wall, the boys against the other, and said that anyone not partnered by the count of five would be belted. The resultant scrum tended to get the whole dancing thing off to a bad start.

The Free Church girls were excused dancing and were very smug about it. It was a win/win for them - no PE for several weeks while we "taught" dancing AND they could gloat that we were going to Hell while they weren't.

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
...and their silly competitiveness.

What's wrong with competitiveness?


Some of it is silly.

At one of the secondary schools I attended the emphasis was on improving one's personal best. One of my proudest achievements was lifting my own bodyweight at age 15 (if I could do that now, I'd have been competing for Team GB!). One of the primaries my children attended used a similar scheme. Team games in schools aren't suited to these, as they are dominated by the few superstars each school year has.

There's plenty of scope for co-operative working within the rest of the curriculum, but stragely those who emphasize team games often denigrate group learning!

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Angloid
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

There's plenty of scope for co-operative working within the rest of the curriculum, but stragely those who emphasize team games often denigrate group learning!

Another example of Tory (or more specifically, Govian) inconsistency and relying on prejudice rather than clear thinking.

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Welease Woderwick

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Angloid, I don't think you need the bit in parentheses.

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Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sighthound
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Learning (anything) should be a joy, not a torture. Too many adults, including, sadly, *some* teachers and most politicians forget this.

There are different grades of authors, as well as football teams. There are Leo Tolstoy and Robert Graves and the like, there are the ones who get MAs in Creative Writing and write Literary Fiction, there are genre writers (and many different grades and levels among those) and finally, there are the poor saps who struggle to get published, and the ones who actually pay someone to publish them.

But then there are also some people who struggle to write a simple letter, and even some who find it difficult to write 'The Cat sat on the mat.' Maybe we should force all these to write books, and then set the professional and amateur literary critics on them. That would be a more genuine comparison to what happens in the world of school sport. (Or what *did* happen, anyway. Maybe it's all magical and wonderful now.)

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ken
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Whats wrong is forcing people to compete in sports at which they are bound to lose. Its unfair to their team-mates who are held back by them, its cruel to them because there is nothing they are capable of doing to get them out of the shit, it reinforces oppresive social heirarchies and the bullying culture that is such a huge part of school life, and it makes them less likely to enjoy or take part in sport after they leave school and are set free from the trap.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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churchgeek

Have candles, will pray
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The only sport I ever really enjoyed was volleyball - and only indoors, by the rules (no "wallyball" or beach volleyball for me, please).

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doubtingthomas
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
[qb]...and their silly competitiveness.

What's wrong with competitiveness?
Nothing as such, kids need to know about winning and losing. But it should be in a field where they have the slightest chance of winning - that may be sport for some, but academic skills (e.g. essay-writing) for others, and music or arts for yet another bunch.

So I think competition against others should be on offer in all of these, and enforced in none.

Competition against oneself of course is a different matter, and I think the way forward:
Despite being academically geeky and not a very talented sportsperson, I have always enjoyed exercise.
I only learnt that after I left school, but by the age of 40 have made body to do things it couldn't in its teens!

It's been sailing and martial arts for me, but the dance and yoga so disliked by the Tories seems ideal for that purpose.

[ 18. August 2012, 21:47: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]

Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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[Slightly scary hostly helpfulness on]

I find it hard to see compulsory games as heavenly at the best of times, but this has come over all purgatorial.

Therefore I suggest taking the discussion to this sister thread for further exhilarating debate.

[Slightly scary hostly helpfulness off]

Thread closed.

Doublethink
Temporary Heaven Host

[ 19. August 2012, 11:48: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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