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Source: (consider it) Thread: ++KJS and Sir Francis Drake's prayer
Unreformed
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Everyone, of course, is ignoring the REAL issue--the need to apologize for the unecological, unsustainable fishing techniques used by the Twelve Apostles.

Seriously, your church is bleeding money, had had four dioceses secede, its average age is somewhere between "Social Security" and "purgatory", its membership and influence is plummeting, and this is what they are worried about? Really?

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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day

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RuthW

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quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Everyone, of course, is ignoring the REAL issue--the need to apologize for the unecological, unsustainable fishing techniques used by the Twelve Apostles.

It was their culture. They couldn't help it. Middle eastern fisher people of color get a pass.

quote:
Seriously, your church is bleeding money, had had four dioceses secede, its average age is somewhere between "Social Security" and "purgatory", its membership and influence is plummeting, and this is what they are worried about? Really?
Yes, because it's something we can actually do something about. The rest? Not so much.

[ 07. July 2012, 03:24: Message edited by: RuthW ]

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Zach82
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I fear I might be guilty of junior-hosting in saying this, Unreformed, but you've been paddling the same canoe in several threads, and you might want to take a look at the board commandments, specifically the one about crusading.

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Unreformed
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I fear I might be guilty of junior-hosting in saying this, Unreformed, but you've been paddling the same canoe in several threads, and you might want to take a look at the board commandments, specifically the one about crusading.

I think the actual hosts of this website can figure out if I'm doing that or not, and will issue the appropriate warning if I am. In which case, I'll be glad to shut up about TEC.

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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day

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Zach82
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Look at it this way, Unreformed- you've commented that the Episcopal Church and Anglicanism is a dying denomination rife with paganism and error in no less than 5 thread. Consider us all informed. Give it a rest.

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Sir Pellinore
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quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Am I correct that Drake wasn't in fact a rogue pirate, but rather a privateer licensed by the Crown to operate against ships of rival powers?

I believe that to be true.

"Francis Drake: a Man of his Age but not necessarily for Ours?"

Drum beating about that old Elizabethan sea dog, or England's then enemy, Spain, seems rather dated now.

One nation's hero is another nation's villain.

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Well...

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Everyone, of course, is ignoring the REAL issue--the need to apologize for the unecological, unsustainable fishing techniques used by the Twelve Apostles.

Seriously, your church is bleeding money, had had four dioceses secede, its average age is somewhere between "Social Security" and "purgatory", its membership and influence is plummeting, and this is what they are worried about? Really?

You do understand what is meant by the statistical term "median", don't you? It is one measure of central tendency (the other two being the mode and the mean), and is defined as that point on a scale below which 50 percent of cases fall. It is not a score but rather the point on a distribution dividing the upper and lower half of cases. You have, on the Homosexuality and Christianity thread in Dead Horses, stated that the median age of members of the Episcopal Church is 57. I don't know whether that figure is accurate or not, but if so, half of Episcopalians are below that age. Further, I would suppose that means confirmed and/or communicant members of TEC, in which case the figure isn't distorted by significant numbers of infants and small children. Given the average life span in our present-day society, I would find the quoted median age of membership to be not at all distressing.

[ 07. July 2012, 12:08: Message edited by: Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras ]

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Unreformed
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LSV if you want to discuss this start a fresh thread. I'm not going to get accused of hijacking this one.

That is, if you want to.

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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day

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ken
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quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
It's a dreadful prayer, stinking of middle class comfort.

I am glad you said that.
Its also very didactic. Its instructions to the congregation phrased as a prayer to God. Authoritarian attitudes pretending to be radical and liberal. A little moralising homily dressed up as a bad poem. As well as being twee. Like the worse sort of Wee Word on the radio.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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ToujoursDan

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It's a nice prayer. Even a sinner can create nice prayers. This is a country that celebrates Columbus Day - dedicated to someone who did far worse. I can't get upset over this.

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Daron
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To the OP. KJS is already one of the most disturbed bishops in the Anglican Communion so I'd say that her prayer qualifies as a work of supererogation.

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Each strand of sorrow has a place, within this tapestry of grace
So through the trials I choose to say, Your perfect will in your perfect way

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ToujoursDan

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quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Everyone, of course, is ignoring the REAL issue--the need to apologize for the unecological, unsustainable fishing techniques used by the Twelve Apostles.

Seriously, your church is bleeding money, had had four dioceses secede, its average age is somewhere between "Social Security" and "purgatory", its membership and influence is plummeting, and this is what they are worried about? Really?

The Mormons have none of these problems. Their membership median age is below the average; they are rolling in money and on the ascendancy. That proves they are theologically and morally correct.

The TEC must insist its members give up tea, coffee and wear temple garments in order to become a god immediately!
[Big Grin]

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
[Overused] [Overused] [Killing me] [Killing me]

The Anglican Church needs to adopt this a slogan:
"Be Anglican. We are cool. We are pirates!"

Think of the Sunday School curriculum. Think of pirate settings for eucharist. Wow!

Well, there's already The Pirate Eucharist and The Pirate Bible Translator.
[Big Grin]

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
The Mormons have none of these problems. Their membership median age is below the average; they are rolling in money and on the ascendancy. That proves they are theologically and morally correct.

Mostly it proves that they have dozens of children.
[Razz]

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

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Yerevan
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On re-reading this prayer I realise that it scores highly on liberal bullshit bingo (I should add that I'm also highly partial to a good game of evangelical or Catholic bullshit bingo - my hatred of cliche is entirely even-handed [Razz] ).

References to "The marginalised": 5 points
Ability to extract a sermon on ecology and/or social justice from ANY passage of scripture: 20 points
Use of term "faith journey": 10 points
Use of dancing/journeying as metaphor for faith: 15 points
Wearing of multi-coloured 'efnic' stole: 15 points (+ 5 bonus points if genuinely 'efnic' and accompanied by heart-rending story of how stole was gifted to celebrant during inspiring visit to impoverished Guatemala/Tanzania/Bangladesh)
Hymn by John Bell: 10 points (+ 5 bonus points if hymn contains dance metaphor)
Hymn by Fred Kaan: 10 points
Use of Mother God: 50 points
Pray beginning with "Disturb us Oh Lord" which urges the congregation to think things the congregation no doubt thinks already: 20 points
Use of inter-faith prayer: 50 points (+ 20 points if borrowed from an obscure indigenuous culure)
Use of words "radical/subversive/inclusive": 10 points (+5 points if all used in one sentence)
Didactic sermonette addressed to congregation disguised as hymn/prayer to God: 15 points
Use of at least seventeen adjectives to each noun: i.e. "compassionate, loving, embracing, dancing, inclusive, daring, subversive..[yadda, yadda...five minutes elapses]....triune God": 30 points

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Unreformed
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quote:
he Mormons have none of these problems. Their membership median age is below the average; they are rolling in money and on the ascendancy. That proves they are theologically and morally correct.

Complete non-sequitur.
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Mockingale
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Look at it this way, Unreformed- you've commented that the Episcopal Church and Anglicanism is a dying denomination rife with paganism and error in no less than 5 thread. Consider us all informed. Give it a rest.

It seems to be a common refrain among continuing Anglicans over the last week. They're over us. So over us that they don't even remotely care. Except we just can't see how awful we are. If we were just like them so they could rejoin, then we'd have no problems, but no, we'll never come back. But they don't care, nosiree.

Then they eat a pint of Ben & Jerry's, wonder why no one will ever love them, and cry themselves to sleep.

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Unreformed
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Mockingdale--

I admit its on my mind this week because of TEC General Convention. It's a horrible disaster, yet I can't look away. I'm fascinated. It's like watching a trainwreck, or reality TV.

[ 09. July 2012, 19:47: Message edited by: Unreformed ]

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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day

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Mockingale
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quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Mockingdale--

I admit its on my mind this week because of TEC General Convention. It's a horrible disaster, yet I can't look away. I'm fascinated. It's like watching a trainwreck, or reality TV.

It's fair to say that our shenanigans hurt far fewer people than your church's shenanigans.

I'll take an aging church and vapid hippy-dippy theology over Rome's issues six days and twice on Sundays. [Yipee]

[ 09. July 2012, 21:11: Message edited by: Mockingale ]

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Unreformed
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Mockingdale, well, as ++Marini once said, given the number of sins the Church has committed over the course of 20 centuries, reference to them must be rather summary.

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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Mockingdale--

I admit its on my mind this week because of TEC General Convention. It's a horrible disaster, yet I can't look away. I'm fascinated. It's like watching a trainwreck, or reality TV.

Bullshit. This isn't something that is unfolding in front of your eyes. TEC General Convention barely even made the Indianapolis paper on the day it started. If you know about what's going on there, it's because you went looking for the information.
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Unreformed
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Mockingdale--

I admit its on my mind this week because of TEC General Convention. It's a horrible disaster, yet I can't look away. I'm fascinated. It's like watching a trainwreck, or reality TV.

Bullshit. This isn't something that is unfolding in front of your eyes. TEC General Convention barely even made the Indianapolis paper on the day it started. If you know about what's going on there, it's because you went looking for the information.
Well, the reality TV analogy still holds up, doesn't it?

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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day

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RuthW

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News of the triennial convention of a small Christian denomination hardly compares with the near ubiquity of reality TV.
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Zach82
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I wouldn't care so much if Unreformed's criticisms actually had something to do with the Episcopal Church I know. I've gone to an Episcopal Church every Sunday for 15 years and the one and only reference to any pagan God I have ever heard was in group discussion outside of a service. Yet Unreformed accuses the Episcopal Church of being rife with paganism.

Either he's a bitter convert and he needs to get over it, or he learned everything he knows about the Episcopal Church from Virtue Online and he needs to get over it.

Long story short, he needs to get over it.

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Beeswax Altar
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quote:
originally posted by Yerevan:
References to "The marginalised": 5 points

Does this include references to "The Other" or is that in another category?

quote:
originally posted by Yerevan:
Use of words "radical/subversive/inclusive": 10 points (+5 points if all used in one sentence)

Don't forget justice.

Speaking of justice...how about points for using gerunds as theological terms?

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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan

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ken
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
... a small Christian denomination ...

Actually, if you count all the Anglicans worldwide as one denomination, its not that small. Way behind the Roman Catholics of course, and then the Pentecostalists (though counting them as one is even more problematic than the Anglicans), then the Orthodox, then the Baptists, then the Anglicans. They come in just ahead of the Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, and churches in communion with the Pope of Alexandria. So its the world's largest mainstream Protestant denomination. Still only about one churchgoer in thirty or forty though. There are a great many Catholics about (and quite a lot of Pentecostals)

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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ToujoursDan

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
News of the triennial convention of a small Christian denomination hardly compares with the near ubiquity of reality TV.

And a denomination that has always been small in the U.S. I don't believe the TEC has never been more than 1-2% of the U.S. population. It had more influence in the past, but that coincided with the dominance of the old-line WASP (mostly English White Anglo Saxon Protestants) elite in government and business, which has largely passed as the U.S. diversified.

The membership wobble it's going through now is nothing like the crash after the War of Independence. Somehow it survived then and probably will in some form again.

(Pagan gods? Nope. Not in my church, or diocese for that matter.)

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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
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Unreformed
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The biggest problem I had with TEC was not paganism (the Hindu thing was a throwaway line), or even Dead Horses (REALLY!), but the creeping Unitarian Universalism in that body, and its confusion of the Gospel with American Progressive politics.

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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day

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Sir Pellinore
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To give you due credit, Unreformed, you appear to have followed your conscience and walked after weighing things up.

I'm just wondering why you are turning and looking back? Will it do much except make you feel embittered?

TEC seems well and truly set on its progressive course. Whatever anyone thinks of its emphasis I think it's unlikely to change in the near future.

There are Provinces of the Anglican Communion in disagreement with TEC. In fact a de facto schism now exists. TEC is not the Anglican Communion.

--------------------
Well...

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Zach82
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quote:
(the Hindu thing was a throwaway line)
Isn't it a pain in the neck when people hold you accountable for your snide little remarks?

quote:
but the creeping Unitarian Universalism in that body,
This is another matter in which I can with absolute certainty say you are just wrong. In 15 years of Episcopal Church services, every single one of them has referred to the Trinity and to Jesus Christ.

And trust me, I DO check.

quote:
its confusion of the Gospel with American Progressive politics.
I know enough Roman Catholics to know the difference between your sect and mine in this regard is only one of degree. I assure you I can, and do, rail against the liberal social Gospel as strongly as anyone.

Just out of idle curiosity, are you a recent convert, or do you just not know that many Episcopalians? Because your judgments about them are either unfair or uninformed.

Zach

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Unreformed
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Zach, let me just say don't take this personally, you're not what I'm talking about, and if you're in a parish that hasn't gone down the rabbit hole that's great. But a whole lot of TEC, especially the increasingly ridiculous national church, has. If you love your parish, if you want to stay in it, great. Good for you. I, personally, just couldn't do it anymore.

As to how well I know it, let me put it this way: my father, grandfather, and great-grandfather on one side of my family were all priests in The Episcopal Church. I know it well enough to know I needed to leave.

As to Trinitarian forms, the liturgy isn't the problem, at least not yet. Read
this, it expresses my view pretty well on what I mean by creeping Unitarianism.

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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day

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Unreformed
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quote:
TEC is not the Anglican Communion.
I know, and what I'm saying really only applies to TEC and its counterpart in Canada.

CofE and Australia aren't there...yet.

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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day

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Zach82
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I have to take it personally, because I am an Episcopalian and you won't stop talking ignorant, hateful crap about us. You may have lost your faith in the Episcopal Church but I haven't.

Some advise I heard from the Catholic poster Trisagion once: You left. Get over it. Don't talk about the Episcopal Church, don't read about it, and try not to think about it for at least 5 years, because it will take the long for you to think about it with any objectivity.

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Mockingale
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quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:

Speaking of justice...how about points for using gerunds as theological terms?

GC77: The Justicing.
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(S)pike couchant
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I have to take it personally, because I am an Episcopalian and you won't stop talking ignorant, hateful crap about us. You may have lost your faith in the Episcopal Church but I haven't.

Whilst I think Unreformed's criticisms of the ECUSA are way over the top, it does seem to me that said body has a tendency to shoot itself in the foot with a frequency that looks almost willful. The prayer quoted in the OP is an example of that. It's as if they've responded to accusations of being a Church for aging hippies by choosing to present a public face clad entirely in tie-dye. Now, I've been to America and I know enough American Episcopalians to know that this image isn't an accurate reflection of the vast majority of Episcopalians, but it is the one the national church seems keen to present at events like its General Convention. The American Episcopalians always seem to be lumped in with the Canadians, but in this respect they seem closer to the Kiwis, whose public image is also very flaky (mostly because they have a ridiculous Prayer Book, but the fact that one of their bishops is a middle aged white man with dreadlocks doesn't help).

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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.

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Zach82
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I am the last to say that the Episcopal Church doesn't have problems. The future of the Episcopal Church is, indeed, a matter of great anxiety for me. But the sickness is not unto death. We have enough problems without the ones that Unreformed blows way out of proportion or just flat out imagines in his fevered mind.

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Mockingale
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quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
Whilst I think Unreformed's criticisms of the ECUSA are way over the top, it does seem to me that said body has a tendency to shoot itself in the foot with a frequency that looks almost willful. The prayer quoted in the OP is an example of that. It's as if they've responded to accusations of being a Church for aging hippies by choosing to present a public face clad entirely in tie-dye. Now, I've been to America and I know enough American Episcopalians to know that this image isn't an accurate reflection of the vast majority of Episcopalians, but it is the one the national church seems keen to present at events like its General Convention.

I think the problem is that the majority of leaders in the church, the ones who have positions as bishops or prominent clergy or the time and resources to travel 10 days for General Convention (plus a few days for diocesan convention, plus all the time spent doing work as wardens and vestry members) came of age during the late 60s and 70s. They're the generation of counterculture and breaking down tradition and boundaries.

That's why the Liturgy and Church Music committee was flabbergasted when it turned out that it was the baby boomers only who want to replace the old hymnal with guitar sing-alongs and drum circles, and the younger church-goers prefer more traditional fare.

That's why the vast majority of people in the pews prefer a plain old Rite I or II Eucharist with standard hymns and anthems, while the Convention folks attend Sacred Circles and crap from "Enriching our Worship" and interpretive dance and Gender-transcendent Eucharists. When they have to do something from the Book of Common Prayer, they do Eucharistic Prayer C (of course).

And as they get weirder and start pushing more controversial theologies, the conservatives in leadership leave, leaving the top brass to become stranger still. We're about to have trial use of prayers for germs, ffs.

I've been following the General Convention and it seems like what goes on there is just ridiculously far removed from the day-to-day worship of most Episcopalians. I think most Episcopalians who still go to church on a regular basis (and that hasn't really been a hallmark of ours for a while) want something familiarly traditional and dignified but not overly political in either direction. They don't want experimental liturgies and they don't want to be activists for what amounts to the Green Party in robes.

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Zach82
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One can sense that dynamic in some of the resolutions, Mockingale. The resolution on church music beings with the terse comment "A majority of respondents to the hymnal revision feasibility study conducted in 2010-2011 do not favor revision
of The Hymnal 1982" but goes on to day "A task force on congregational song will help discover and develop both music and musical leadership that contribute to congregational vitality."

The subtext would be almost hilarious if it all wasn't a bunch of bored liturgists determined to drag the Church in a direction hardly anyone wants to go.

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Beeswax Altar
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Unreformed criticizes TEC mainly for creeping Unitarianism and mistaking progressive politics for the gospel. While I understand what he's saying about creeping Unitarianism, the charge is overblown. As evidence, he points to the blog of a person who holds no official position in TEC and whose own bio claims only a tenuous connection The Episcopal Church. Unfortunately, TEC is guilty beyond a reasonably doubt of mistaking progressive politics for the gospel. However, most younger Episcopalians see the errors of the previous two generations and will likely correct both the problems mentioned by Unreformed. What will be left when the Hippies finally relinquish power? Only God knows.

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(S)pike couchant
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quote:
Originally posted by Mockingale:
I think the problem is that the majority of leaders in the church, the ones who have positions as bishops or prominent clergy or the time and resources to travel 10 days for General Convention (plus a few days for diocesan convention, plus all the time spent doing work as wardens and vestry members) came of age during the late 60s and 70s. They're the generation of counterculture and breaking down tradition and boundaries.

That has the unmistakable whiff of truth. Mind you, it's not that the younger generation aren't interested in challenging received assumptions, it's just that they seem able to do it in a more mature manner. I seem to recall, many years ago, my prep school Latin master telling his charges that 'the people who most want to be seen as rebels and individualists are generally just conformists by a different name; real individualists have enough confidence in themselves that they don't feel need to rebel over silly things'. His advice was right then, and it's right now.

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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.

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Mockingale
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
One can sense that dynamic in some of the resolutions, Mockingale. The resolution on church music beings with the terse comment "A majority of respondents to the hymnal revision feasibility study conducted in 2010-2011 do not favor revision
of The Hymnal 1982" but goes on to day "A task force on congregational song will help discover and develop both music and musical leadership that contribute to congregational vitality."

The subtext would be almost hilarious if it all wasn't a bunch of bored liturgists determined to drag the Church in a direction hardly anyone wants to go.

We, the unwashed masses in the pews, have no idea what we really want, of course. We don't have the benefit of a Berkeley Div School education, 27 years of General Convention and a heaping dose of "The Holy Spirit" to help us discern what is right and true.

The sad thing is that they'll spend hundreds of thousands of dollars developing a musical paperweight rather than feeding the hungry and educating the poor.

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Zach82
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quote:
What will be left when the Hippies finally relinquish power? Only God knows.
"Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass."

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Unreformed
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quote:
When they have to do something from the Book of Common Prayer, they do Eucharistic Prayer C (of course).
Strangely, I don't mind Eucharistic Prayer C and think its entirely orthodox, if a tad 1970s. I don't understand the big problem some traditionalists have with it.

It IS disturbing though that the national leadership of TEC seems to think the '79 BCP is too conservative.
[Disappointed]

Just wait until they make it easier to "edit" and "update" the prayer book, as proposed at GC.

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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day

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Unreformed
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Beeswax, from lurking here before registering I think you and I have the exact same problems with TEC, I just concluded they're far more serious and developed than you did. I wish you luck in reversing them.

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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day

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Mockingale
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quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
quote:
When they have to do something from the Book of Common Prayer, they do Eucharistic Prayer C (of course).
Strangely, I don't mind Eucharistic Prayer C and think its entirely orthodox, if a tad 1970s. I don't understand the big problem some traditionalists have with it.

It IS disturbing though that the national leadership of TEC seems to think the '79 BCP is too conservative.
[Disappointed]

Just wait until they make it easier to "edit" and "update" the prayer book, as proposed at GC.

It's not that there's a theological problem with it. There are not many theological problems I'm aware of with the Enriching Our Worship alternate eucharistic prayers, either - it's just that the language unnecessarily monkeys with tradition and good taste in favor of what is faddish.

I'm sure that in the adolescent days of the space program Eucharistic Prayer C seemed fresh and relevant and like the wave of the future to all of the liturgy wonks that got it into the new BCP. By the 80s it was seriously dated. It's just unpopular.

That's the thing that I was trying to explain - there's a vast difference between the things you might see at General Convention worship and hear from some of the more out-there clergy and what you'll typically see and hear in real Episcopal parishes.

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Mockingale
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quote:
Originally posted by Mockingale:

I'm sure that in the adolescent days of the space program Eucharistic Prayer C seemed fresh and relevant and like the wave of the future to all of the liturgy wonks that got it into the new BCP. By the 80s it was seriously dated. It's just unpopular.

Now that I think about it, it's like going back and watching old tapes of Carl Sagan's Cosmos. It's not that the content is bad information, it's just that it's presented with ridiculously flowery popular science language and cheesy synth music and bad hair.
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Beeswax Altar
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Prayer C deserves a Tangerine Dream soundtrack.

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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan

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Mockingale
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quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Prayer C deserves a Tangerine Dream soundtrack.

Coming soon to the Hymnal 2015.
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Zach82
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All is not lost: resolution C029 has been amended to reaffirm baptism as the entry point to the Holy Eucharist (basically the opposite of what it said before) and C040: Open Table seems doomed to failure. Holy Women Holy Men is still around, but is to be revised with stricter adherence to standards set in 2006 (which were not followed when the calendar was put together).

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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I would have thought that in Elizabethan England, one could have seen the stars quite well while on land.
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