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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Self-induced mind games: Good bad or indifferent
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
I know that "mind game" is usually used in the sense of somebody playing mind-games with other people.
I'm talking about self-induced attitudes or beliefs which are adopted because they offer psychological benefit, even though they are known to be dubious or clearly not true.
One example from my life: Having got into a rage after receiving an over-the-top accountants bill to wind up a company, I played the mind game that this was happening to a friend and I was trying to sort it out on my friend's behalf.
Of course it is odd that this could work, but it did, even to my slight surprise, and lowered the tension level and enabled me to deal with it more effectively.
Another example: more controversial, I expect. I friend of mine who is well aware of the likelihood that her christian belief is not justifiable, has taken the conscious decision not to examine it because her family has a tendency to depression and she sees Christianity as a guard against that. The people's therapy, as Jung, I believe, coined it.
The point about it is:
1. It has to work. Why it sometimes does is not at all clear. But sometimes is does.
2. It has to be helpful. Or there's no point.
3. It has to involve a degree of deliberate self-deception or at the very least conscious suppression of reasonable doubt.
What could be the downside?
1. It could blind you to a truth that you need to know. Any self-induced refusal to consider that one has a health problem or has been healed, despite evidence to the contrary, for example.
2. It just appears a bit silly. And in the first case cited it is plainly an untruth. But maybe part of us is a bit silly, and it does no harm from time to time to feed it a bit of harmless bullshit.
Any views? Anyone else do it?
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
Posts: 2538 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Hi Anteater
Nice question.
I've played the 'let's pretend I'm helping someone else' one you describe, quite often; I noticed as a research student that whilst I could think clearly about other students' problems, I frequently was debilitated by the pressure of needing to conquer my own.
Of course this is pathological...and currently I'm thinking through some related stuff with professional help (again) and with an SSRI script on the shelf, in reserve...
I don't want to hijack your thread on post 2 - but this (helpful mindgames) seems related to the degree one feels ones life should be coupled HARD to the ultra-real, contrasted with the degree to which one might permit oneself to view ones life through whatever rose-tinted prisms (such as 'lifestyle', for example, but not excluding religion, to quote another of your examples) we can create for ourselves. Such things might be internally generated, or we may find assistance in any number of advertisers' 'angle'.
I'm a Christian, and have generally pursued the ultra-real (which juxtaposition will make some shipmates chortle) - but sometimes wonder that if one sets out to deconstruct ones own myth entirely thoroughly and to try hard to spot and dissassemble all such games, one is left without very much with which to face the world.
Hope that's not too big a digression.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Like any psychological technique, I guess it depends if it hinders you or helps you in dealing successfully with life. The tricky part is something that might seem useful at one point in life, might really screw you up later. This is especially true for strategies kids come up with, often unconsciously. Children have so little control over their lives and few ways of avoiding hurt that comes their way. I suffer today from my own childhood "mind games" and habits of thought. At least as an adult one might be conscious of choosing to treat a problem as someone else's to relieve anxiety. It's a true choice.
One really extreme example of a "mind game" I knew of involved my mother. She was in a bad accident that landed her in ICU for a week before she was moved to the regular ward. After her trach was removed and we could talk, I mentioned something that had happened in ICU, and she declared emphatically that she didn't want to remember any of that. Lo and behold two days later she just didn't. At all. And I don't think she was just warding off unpleasant conversation, because the family could mention things from that obliterated time and it wouldn't faze her anymore.
I don't think she missed anything by not remembering ICU.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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footwasher
Shipmate
# 15599
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Posted
Works for me. Just got mixed up with a fenderbender with another driver. Stuck with the bill because of slow thinking. However, the past two incidents were positive for me. Two out of three is not bad I tell myself, with new road construction making EVERYONE miserable.
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Ship's crimp
Posts: 927 | From: pearl o' the orient | Registered: Apr 2010
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Lyda*Rose -
I think the person with whom I am exploring some of this stuff referred to the childhood strategies you mention with the phrase 'maladaptive strategies' - it's interesting to work on, and for me fruitful, I think.
My own mother appears to be able to shape reality to her will rather like your own - though there seems to be a kind of violence about it, in that her intransigence regarding her version of reality can sometimes force anyone who wishes to remain in relationship with her to concur, or remain silent. I think much of my own general reaction against games stems from this - but it still seems to me that one somehow ends up naked (more than naked - raw) when facing the world without them.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Well, this instance was pretty much a one off for my mom. She did have a fairly rosy view of the world, but I don't recall her doing actual violence to the world's reality in other cases.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
I've never been able to play mind games with myself. I've even had a hard time with cognitive-behavioral therapy because it feels like self-deception to me (even though I know that's not what it is).
I think I might be getting better at it, in part because I know only enough about how the brain works to understand its plasticity and how mental habits can be formed or unformed just like physical ones (learning to ride a bike or play piano, adjusting your posture, etc.). My sister's a therapist, and I like a metaphor she shared with me (probably learned it in school): It's like a path worn into grass. It takes both time and effort to change the path, both to wear a new one down to the dirt, and to allow the grass to grow back over the old one. So making a conscious effort to use my experiences to form new mental habits seems the way to go.
Easier said than done, but I've been successful with it recently.
Here's one I wish I could do:
I've procrastinated on school work before by doing house work (cleaning), and I've procrastinated on house work by doing school work (reading, usually). Why can't I tell myself, when I need to get a paper written, e.g., that I should be doing house work and the school work is procrastinating, not the other way around?
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
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mrs whibley
Shipmate
# 4798
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Posted
I wish I could do the reverse-procrastination thing, too! It really should be possible, shouldn't it?
A friend taught me a useful, and apparently psychologically harmless game which seems to work. When faced with a difficult decision, just pretend to yourself that you've made your mind up one way or the other. You don't have to do anything about it, or even tell anyone else until it is clear whether you were right. Somehow it works, and the brain seems to process the pros and cons of the decision more clearly.
Another harmless mind game is to acquire a (good) habit by forcing yourself to do something until it becomes one.
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I long for a faith that is gloriously treacherous - Mike Yaconelli
Posts: 942 | From: North Lincolnshire | Registered: Aug 2003
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Tossing a coin works too (and then examining your feelings to see whether you are disappointed or relieved with the outcome). At least with me, most of the time.
One mindgame (ha) I'm trying to learn is "I'll think about that tomorrow." Because there are shitloads of stress pouring over my family again (when are there not?) and it is the sort of situation where thinking about it is unproductive of anything except a Really Bad Night. but I can't say "I won't think about that at all," because that just brings it more urgently to mind. Therefore the procrastination. Carry it off long enough and the situation may resolve before I get around to worrying about it.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
George Valliant, one of the longitudinal Grant Study directors put together a hierarchy of psychological defences which I have always felt does a good job of explaining mind games.
Link.
Pathological / immature level example:
"Distortion: A gross reshaping of external reality to meet internal needs."
Like a child when 3. Told not to have a cookie, was caught in the kitchen with crumbs on face and cookie in hand. Asked 'did you take a cookie' said 'no' and quickly put half eaten cookie behind her back. (of course the question 'did you take a cookie' is also a mind game on myself.)
Mature / adaptive example
"Sublimation: Transformation of negative emotions or instincts into positive actions, behavior, or emotion."
I think this is what we're supposed to strive for.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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footwasher
Shipmate
# 15599
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Posted
Federer in his latest interview says it's okay to cry for the occasions when one should have won but lost instead. I think he uses the win some, lose some rationale, consolation being in the "Better to win more than lose more" bit!
[ 10. July 2012, 03:46: Message edited by: footwasher ]
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Ship's crimp
Posts: 927 | From: pearl o' the orient | Registered: Apr 2010
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Whenever I find myself fighting back the urge to laugh in an inappropriate environment, I pretend that I'm at a funeral.
Usually works, though I don't know what I'll do if I'm ever in a situation like this.
[ 10. July 2012, 07:45: Message edited by: Stetson ]
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
No_prophet - that was an interesting link - thanks.
Stetson - I once (age about 16) had to announce the sad passing of Mr Pratt, in church. I could see it coming to get me, as I read down the list of announcements. The battle of will-vs-subconscious became physical as my jaw siezed up and my speech slurred. Concentrating on the presence of his widow (whilst not daring to look at her or anyone else) just about got me through ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Every time someone does something dodgy to me, for example cutting me off at a traffic light, I think by myself: "I actually rule this place, but I let my subjects break loose every once in a while. The next time, he won't get off the hook so easily."
This really helps to keep my calm.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Whenever I find myself fighting back the urge to laugh in an inappropriate environment, I pretend that I'm at a funeral.
If I need to be remove the urge to get tearful and emotional (eg if I'm speaking at a funeral) I think of a steaming dog turd. Works every time.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
Your talk can't be that bad. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Mili
Shipmate
# 3254
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Posted
One strategy I learnt from a teaching seminar was the Catastrophe Scale. I'm not sure if it qualifies as a mind game but it works in a similar way. Basically you imagine (or even draw) a catastrophe scale. It works well to create one with a group. You think of negative events and place them on the scale from disastrous at the top to slightly annoying at the bottom. Then whenever something bad happens that is not totally devastating you remind yourself of the Catastrophe Scale. Then things like broken photocopiers, burnt cooking, the train being late, even an argument with a friend or family member etc can be brought into context and therefore stress you out/upset you less. It sounds really simple but it's worked well for me in lots of situations.
The only problem I find is now at work if someone else is having a major stress out over something small I find it really annoying. However it's not the best time to explain the catastrophe scale to them! Instead I remind myself that a workmate stressing out is very low on my catastrophe scale and try to remain calm so I can help them calm down.
Another strategy someone taught me is to imagine if you will care about the negative event when you are 80.
Posts: 1015 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anteater:
I'm talking about self-induced attitudes or beliefs which are adopted because they offer psychological benefit, even though they are known to be dubious or clearly not true.
One of my very favorite scenes in any movie is from "Secondhand Lions." Robert Duvall tells his nephew that some things are important to believe -- whether or not they are true -- because they make life worth living. He gives as examples that right triumphs over power, true love lasts forever, and a few other things. You believe in them because they are worth believing in. That strikes me as exactly right.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
Lyda*Rose: quote:
The tricky part is something that might seem useful at one point in life, might really screw you up later. This is especially true for strategies kids come up with, often unconsciously. Children have so little control over their lives and few ways of avoiding hurt that comes their way. I suffer today from my own childhood "mind games" and habits of thought.
I should have made it clear that children's protective mechanisms were not included. I have them too. But they are not consciously recognised as mind games, and there lies the problem. I think it is the consciousness of what you are up to that protects you, and this cannot apply to children.
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
Posts: 2538 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
Mark-In-Manchester (My town of birth):
Interesting reply. Can't think why you would think it a digression. But I disagree when you say:
quote:
I've played the 'let's pretend I'm helping someone else' one you describe, quite often; I noticed as a research student that whilst I could think clearly about other students' problems, I frequently was debilitated by the pressure of needing to conquer my own.
Of course this is pathological...
as if it's self-evident that it is pathological behaviour. I don't think that at all.
Of course I'm not sure in all cases. The problem with the religious one is that the person will probably pass it on to their children, and typically in these cases, it gets presented as Gospel Truth.
The other good thing about the "help a friend" mind game is that it doesn't need to continue in force for long. In my case, once I'd solved the problem I could ditch it.
ChurchGeek:
quote:
I've never been able to play mind games with myself.
I'm surprised they work myself, and sometimes they don't. But when it comes to the oft repeated mantra of REBT/CBT or most Buddhist thought of Unconditional Life Acceptance, I'm not sure I would use mind-game, although it has some of the characteristics. But that does have quite a hard logical core: Life is there and it is what it is, so there's no point in not accepting it, and working from there.
quote:
I've even had a hard time with cognitive-behavioral therapy because it feels like self-deception to me (even though I know that's not what it is).
That's interest, but maybe for your therapist. You recognise that CBT is not self-deception, and I would say it's exactly the opposite. As far as I understand it it's about living from what you know as opposed to feel, and that's tough, because there's a big emotional component to knowing. That deep feeling that . . whatever . . which can dissipate under pressure.
I can see more you might think that if you get into the Positive Psychology movement of Seligman et al, but I'm also in favour of the idea of learned optimism, being a pessimist by nature. It by no means implies self deception, since it works by putting the most positive spin on a situation as the facts allow. But in can veer into self-deceptive strategies. If you like Podcast recommendations try Shrink Rap Radio and Wise Counsel with Dave van Nuys. He has both positive and critical podcasts on Seligman.
The interesting thing is understanding why we often prefer negativity. That's something I'm exploring, but at least in my case, to deny that there is a sort of pleasure in wallowing in self-pity just rings false.
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
Posts: 2538 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anteater:
The interesting thing is understanding why we often prefer negativity. That's something I'm exploring ...
I wonder if negativity/pessimism is adaptive, in the evolutionary sense?
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jamat
Shipmate
# 11621
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Posted
The issue for me is that one must put a spin or tell oneself a story when confronted with distress in a way that helps you cope.
Recently a friend died. Her husband copes by saying; " she is OK now, she is in a better place."
the story he tells himself is based on his faith.
Are the sort of words that are spoken at funerals just spin, coping devices for the bereaved to be comforted by?
If you are badly shocked or hurt say by a loved one or by a disappointment,it often seems to me that to play a mind game such as
'They were wrong, They didn't deserve me,' can lead to bitterness if it becomes entrenched.
So is there a mind game whereby we really truly get to forgive and move on? IOW become healed of that shock, hurt, circumstance or betrayal?
[ 10. July 2012, 22:51: Message edited by: Jamat ]
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Jamat ..in utmost longditude, where Heaven
with Earth and ocean meets, the setting sun slowly descended, and with right aspect
Against the eastern gate of Paradise. (Milton Paradise Lost Bk iv)
Posts: 3228 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Jul 2006
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
In the past when I have felt really negative about myself I have swtched that around by thinking of a clear thinking friend and saying to myself, "What would M say about that?" Somehow it allowed me to 'borrow' their clearheadedness.
I think it worked for me because it broke the negative spiral I had got myself into. and also encouraged me to think creatively about how I could change it.
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I am pretty sure that, apart from our memories, when pets die it's 'dust to dust' full stop. But I still think of my dearly loved departed dogs playing together at the Rainbow Bridge.
It's a mind game that works for me and gave me comfort when my old dog died recently.
An imaginary place giving comfort?
Yep.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
I think it worked for me because it broke the negative spiral I had got myself into. and also encouraged me to think creatively about how I could change it.
One advantage of the experience of years is that we are able to indentify our own personal negative spirals .
If we can hit on a self-deception mechanism that prevents the *spiral* engaging and running it's course, then it can be used to great advantage.
I had a recent incident where I tried it .
When I was out working there was a misunderstanding with a stranger, whereby he suddenly got stroppy with me . As a kid when 'told off' I'd brood for days , so this was heading for the same old 'I've been hurt' scenario.
When I got back to the van slightly shaken, I really told myself the guy was a WW2 Veteran who had reminants of post traumatic stress . This generated a large amount of respect and sympathy in my heart and immediately prevented the negative spiral kicking in .
I'm still surprised as to just how effective that incident of self-deception was.
Probably a separate topic but some might argue that faith itself is a form of self deception.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
Jamat:
quote:
Are the sort of words that are spoken at funerals just spin, coping devices for the bereaved to be comforted by?
Not sure. To me the key question is: How much is it an actual firm belief? I would distinguish that case from my idea of mind-game. And at the border are beliefs which you hold to or do not question primarily because of their usefulness to you.
Another borderline case from me. I am inclined intellectually to believe in determinism. Now for some people that is really depressing, and so they are likely to question it hard, and only believe it reluctantly. In my case I do not find it at all depressing, and indeed I find it helpful in showing kindness to people, because it takes all issues of blame out of the way. So I have no motive to question it. It works for me, emotionally and intellectually. But I wouldn't preach it as something everyone should believe.
I think this is how religion works for many people. And when it stops working is when people question it.
So I would classify beliefs which suit you, resulting in you not doing any hard questioning, to be borderline cases.
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
Posts: 2538 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006
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The Intrepid Mrs S
Shipmate
# 17002
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Posted
1) There is a tendency to depression in my family, though I am in general an optimist. Accordingly I take steps to avoid depression, by (for instance) not watching or listening to the news on TV/radio. I can't do anything about the majority of Stuff on the news, so I feel upset and helpless (which is a Bad Thing). I read the paper or look at internet sites, where I can control which articles I look at and for how long. (Also have to remember that the media are - how can I put this? - not always Totally Honest, and bear that in mind.
I have one very sensible friend who also made this conscious decision, which reassured me that it was not a silly thing to do.
2) When we were waiting for my mother-in-law's funeral, a dog was barking nearby. This would normally have wound me up, but on that day I was able to say 'A dog is barking. It is nothing to do with me' and ignore it (can't always manage that!)
3) Finally - I used to wake in the small hours and IMMEDIATELY my brain would kick in with something to worry about (there is always something, as LC says). To avoid this I use my iPod with very familiar audiobooks, read by someone with a pleasant voice - it's as if the words cut the neural connections to my worry circuits. I know it's escapism, but there isn't anything to be gained by lying awake worrying about something that either you can't control, or that will seem like nothing in the morning. If I don't go back to sleep, at least I'm spared the hours of worrying.
So yes, mind games ARE useful and can be very positive, I think possibly as long as you recognise the strategies that you are using for what they are.
The Serene Mrs. S
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Don't get your knickers in a twist over your advancing age. It achieves nothing and makes you walk funny.
Prayer should be our first recourse, not our last resort
'Lord, please give us patience. NOW!'
Posts: 1464 | From: Neither here nor there | Registered: Mar 2012
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Some very good stuff here. There are probably unconscious strategies that we all use, in order to make life bearable, and of course, conscious ones as well, like not watching the news, cos it's horrible.
I suppose they become dodgy when you are no longer in charge of them, but they are in charge of you, and you can't stop them.
But even then, some of these may be OK. For example, looking on the bright side of life may be compulsive for some people, but may also be quite helpful. But then again, if something sad happens to you, and you still look on the bright side, hmm.
A friend of mine who was very shy used to imagine that he was gregarious, and it sort of worked. Various therapies use such techniques of course.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Intrepid Mrs S:
I used to wake in the small hours and IMMEDIATELY my brain would kick in with something to worry about (there is always something, as LC says).
I struggled with that for years until I developed the technique of saying, "No, I'm not going there." I would then immediately begin to run hymns through my mind--hymns that were reassuring but not stimulating. The last thing I needed was to push myself further from sleep.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Intrepid Mrs S:
3) Finally - I used to wake in the small hours and IMMEDIATELY my brain would kick in with something to worry about (there is always something, as LC says). To avoid this I use my iPod with very familiar audiobooks, read by someone with a pleasant voice - it's as if the words cut the neural connections to my worry circuits.
I used to do this a lot after I was raped. It was like having a bed-time story read especially for me. It helped me feel safe.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
quetzalcoatl: quote:
A friend of mine who was very shy used to imagine that he was gregarious, and it sort of worked
But maybe he was? In which case that's a case of acting what you are, which can be very important, especially for mild versions of depression. I.e. the blues rather than a fully blown shit-storm.
So a friend of mine, to whom I recommended to try and act cheerful so as to avoid always being on a downer, said that it would be living a lie. Which would be true if she wished to identify her depressed self as her real self. But if she decides to view her non-depressed self as her real self, then that person is in fact cheerful and outgoing. So she had to act against her feelings, and I see no dishonesty in that.
In fact a popular strand of christian teaching is to act until you feel. Act as if you love someone and maybe you will. But I can see how this could spin off into real self-deception, and knowing where to draw the line is hard, which is why some would avoid it altogether.
For example if I decided to imagine that I was sexually attractive to women in their twenties, I'd soon end up in the stocks, if not worse! ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
Posts: 2538 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006
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PerkyEars
slightly distracted
# 9577
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Posted
quote:
My own mother appears to be able to shape reality to her will rather like your own - though there seems to be a kind of violence about it, in that her intransigence regarding her version of reality can sometimes force anyone who wishes to remain in relationship with her to concur, or remain silent.
I unfortunately have a mother like this too, and in the long run it has a very corrosive effect on the mental health of the people who stick around her.
I think there's a big difference between this and simple cognitive strategies - if we're pretending a problem is someone elses, then we know, and so does everyone else that it's a game. There's no 'real' self deception or forcible deception of anyone else involved.
It seems to me 'deception' is only valuable when it isn't really deception but actually closer to the objective truth than you might be feeling. In the case of a problem which is causing a lot of anxiety - the truth is that the problem probably isn't worth the level of panic, so the 'game' brings our responses closer to what's reasonable and what chimes with reality.
That's why I'm more ambivalent about acting gregarious and cheerful in cases of mild depression. It's good to be sociable, but it seems to me that lying to 'yourself' about being cheerful is what for many people leads to issues being swept under the rug for years. Squarely facing the fact that something is, in reality, wrong might be healthier in the long run.
Posts: 532 | From: Bristol | Registered: May 2005
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Mili
Shipmate
# 3254
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Posted
I agree with you on depression. I know when I'm feeling a bit down acting cheerful and focusing on the positive can cheer me up.
However, I don't think this works for true depression. Pretending nothing is wrong may mean someone doesn't seek the help they need and other people might not provide help as they don't realise it's needed. How often do we read or hear about incidents where people have committed suicide and shocked all their friends and relatives who didn't know anything was wrong and thought the person was happy?
Personally I can usually get myself out of negative moods within a day or too at most, however my mood can be affected quite badly by my hormone levels. I think this is why I was so moody (and perhaps even mildly depressed) at times during my teens and early twenties. Over the years I did get better at identifying irrational thoughts and feelings and coped much better. However, earlier this year I went through a bad patch and on top of that was feeling low and negative for almost half of each month rather than a week. It was starting to affect my relationships with friends and family. In the end I was at the doctors for something else and found myself in tears and discussing my emotional state. The doctor suggested going on a low hormone version of the pill which evens out my hormone levels over the month, and it has made a real difference. I also made the committment to get some professional counselling if things didn't change, as my family and friends weren't coping with my negativity and going on about my feelings so much.
I wouldn't have taken those actions previously as deep down I believed and told myself that it was possible and necessary to control and deal with my emotions myself 'naturally' through will power. This despite the fact that I didn't have a problem with other people seeking professional help when needed.
Posts: 1015 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
Maybe it's a function of being an only child to create my own fun when I was young, but I think as long as I can remember I've had serials running through my head -- ongoing stories based on some immediate interest or riffs off books or films. It can be a stress reliever if, say, I wake up at 2 am and can't get to sleep.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
LutheranChik - me too! I would be a character from a favourite book for days as a child, and then started making up my own stories to tell myself when I couldn't sleep.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
PerkyEars: quote:
That's why I'm more ambivalent about acting gregarious and cheerful in cases of mild depression. It's good to be sociable, but it seems to me that lying to 'yourself' about being cheerful is what for many people leads to issues being swept under the rug for years.
As a periodic mild depressive (and I do mean mild) the rule I would apply is act exactly as you normally would. I too would be uneasy about someone who is normally quite reserved when not depressed, going over the top to over compensate. Be what you are not what you feel is IMHO the best guide.
I think this is a digression from the mind-game technique, although the same issue of honesty, in thought and behaviour, is the root problem.
There is another approach which is not really a mind game, and SFAIK and I'm not expert is basic to Buddhism, and this is to not interpret sensations. Bruce Tift has a very interesting podcast on this in the Sounds True series (which I think is excellent if a bit way out at times).
So if you ask the question: Are you depressed? then the worse thing I think you can do is pretend you are not feeling in some way down. But as Tift points out (and I am taking him on trust here) there are far less physical sensations than emotions recorded by people. So he would concentrate on the actual sensation and not interpret it. As an example, I have often said think I'm mildly depressed, when I'm actually mental tiredness. Even that is an interpretation, but a less significant one. And a good clue to this is that jet-lag can induce exactly the same sensation. Except then I would say I'm jet-lagged or just knackered.
I'm sure some will now say I've never experienced "real" depression as they know it, and this may be true.
I would say there is a gradation, but having said that, a quantitative difference at some point becomes qualitative, as for instance in height.
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
Posts: 2538 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006
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