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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: "Christian" is not the antonym for "Catholic"
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
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I'm all for meeting folk where they are in their spiritual journey, but at some point isn't it my duty to confront and refute dangerous theology?
No, it's not.
My wife is a psychotherapist, and when she started in her present job many years ago she was warned that she was under no circumstances to bring her Christian faith into her work.
Eventually, as a result of her consistent professionalism, she has been recognized as a sort of de facto chaplain, and trusted to deal with patients who request an opportunity to discuss specifically “spiritual” aspects of their situations.
She would not dream of correcting a client’s theology, let alone proselytizing, but she will, with integrity, draw on the resources of a client’s faith tradition.
Thus, for example, when dealing (as she often does) with troubled Catholics, she can suggest that they think about the grace and forgiveness which is a theme of their Catholicism, and not just its punitive, judgmental aspects.
If anyone in your situation was prepared to overstep professional boundaries and engage in explicit sectarian propaganda, I have little doubt that there would be every bit as much (or considerably more) theological error and confusion amongst Catholics as amongst evangelicals.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
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I'm all for meeting folk where they are in their spiritual journey, but at some point isn't it my duty to confront and refute dangerous theology?
No, it's not.
I agree with KC as I think that you then move outside the pastoral care realm of a chaplain.
I also ask:
To whom do think it is your duty? and
What is the danger and to whom do you think it is dangerous?
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:
To whom do think it is your duty? and
What is the danger and to whom do you think it is dangerous?
Thank you for these questions. I believe I can directly address them both by answering just the first: It my duty to those Catholics who are being told that their Catholicism is sending them to Hell.
Normally, I redirect questions about differences between my beliefs and those of the bible-believing Gospel Hall by asking what the client thinks. When pressed, I will allow that there are differences between what the Gospel Hall folk choose to emphasize and what I emphasize.
But, the other night, two men, who had already heard these two parries, were not messing around. They sat me down wanting an answer. (See here.)
I thought they deserved one.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
Well that is fine to respond like that in those circumstances (which do not sound like pastoral care).
(Incidentally, I find myself questioning which Christians aren't bible-believing in similar circumstances.)
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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Cara
Shipmate
# 16966
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
So, this issue (and thread) just won't go away.
Last night, two clients sat me down and asked, quote:
What's up with the guys on Monday night? They said:- Catholics and all mainstream Protestants are going to hell.
- The only way to go to heaven is to say and believe certain words (essentially the bit in Romans about confessing and believing).
- Then, you are saved no matter how much you sin afterward.
- Even Jeffrey Dahmer [the killer and eater of male young adults] got saved and is now in heaven.
To which the clients said they responded: quote:
- There has got to be more to it than just saying a bunch of words in front of some people at a set time and place.
- But, if that's all there is to it, then [sarcastically] sign me up.
- It's hard for me to believe that even skinners [those accused and convicted of sex crimes] get to heaven.
- What do you think?
- What's up with the guys on Monday night?
These happened to be Catholic men, but any I say is overheard, repeated, and discussed, sometimes at length, after I'm gone. (Beyond the television and a few clinical groups, there isn't much else with which to entertain oneself in this facility, so I don't get a big head about it.)
Besides the majority of Catholics, there are also clients raised Protestant, those who have been attracted to fundamentalist churches, a few men raised in, broadly, the Black Church, a man raised in a mixed Jewish-Christian home, and non-Christian Native Americans.
I'm all for meeting folk where they are in their spiritual journey, but at some point isn't it my duty to confront and refute dangerous theology?
Crikey, I can't believe the "Monday night guys" are saying these things! Wow. How common is this???
I think, since you, TSA, are a chaplain, you do indeed have a duty to say that you yourself--in common with many other Christians--do not agree with that attitude.
Surely that is indeed pastoral care--especially if, as you say in a later post, the Catholic men want to know what you think about the ultimate fate of their souls.
KC's wife--whose work, one could even say ministry, sounds wonderful-- as a psychotherapist was specifically asked not to bring her Christian faith into her work. A chaplain is in a very different position, surely.
The "Monday night guys" are preaching one sort of very narrow Christianity. And taking it upon themselves to make judgements about who is going to hell, which Jesus specifically enjoined us not to do.
Surely as a chaplain, it absolutely is TSA's duty to show another way of being Christian, especially when she is being so directly asked! The "Monday night guys" are not pulling any punches, they are not holding back! So when a Catholic asks you point-blank, "Do you think I'm going to hell, as the Monday night guys say I am?" surely it is absolutely TSA's Christian duty to say, very clearly, no, I do not think that at all.
Cara
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Pondering.
Posts: 898 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
She would not dream of correcting a client’s theology ..........
Forgive me, but how is this not an example of correcting someone's theology:
quote:
Thus, for example, when dealing (as she often does) with troubled Catholics, she can suggest that they think about the grace and forgiveness which is a theme of their Catholicism, and not just its punitive, judgmental aspects.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Ohhhh yes it is TT.
Y no hay nada que perdonar.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
Ohhhh yes it is TT.
Y no hay nada que perdonar.
While I can make my way in Castilian, Martin might want to have some care for shipmates who do not.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I can see what Kaplan is trying to say, Triple Tiara and would cut him sufficient slack to suggest that his wife is simply directing her clients to notions of grace and forgiveness that are inherent within their own Catholic tradition rather than pointing them away from it.
I'm not sure he expressed himself very well at this point, though.
It's an interesting dilemma. I know someone who is involved with counselling people with mental health issues and she tells me that although she has had people who were RC or Anglican, the majority of those she deals with who have some kind of faith are largely Jehovah's Witnesses or else some form of Pentecostal.
When dealing with the Pentecostals, she directs them back into their own tradition in an attempt to encourage them to pick out of it those elements that don't apparently feed their paranoia. She does not 'blame' their Pentecostalism for their mental health problems but doesn't feel that it helps either. Her hope is that they will take a broader perspective in time and remain within the over-arching Christian tradition whilst abandoning those dualistic or overly fundamentalist elements that contribute to their mental health problems.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not for a moment suggesting that all fundamentalists have mental health problems, but I am suggesting that people who are mentally unstable and find themselves in some kind of fundie set-up (such as the JWs or some forms of Pentecostalism) are bound to pick up unhelpful elements from it.
Conversely, and this isn't an implied criticism of Catholicism, people with mental health issues who find themselves in a Catholic or more sacramental setting may well be drawn to elements within the tradition that their co-religionists are able to process more easily.
So, in an RC setting they may suffer from what people call 'Catholic guilt' or get hung up on particular practices or emphases that 'normal' RCs can deal with conceptually or in practice without it causing them undue mental stress or turmoil.
I think that's what Kaplan meant. But he can answer for himself, of course.
It is a moot point about interfering with people's theology, though. Is the lady I know interfering with her Pentecostal patients' theology if she tries to direct them back to more nuanced aspects of the broader Christian tradition?
Where do we draw the line?
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Forgive me, but how is this not an example of correcting someone's theology:
She is not disputing the correctness of any tenet of their scheme, but reminding them of other emphases within it.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
No problemo AtA
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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