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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Start of the Olympics
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shamwari
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# 15556
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Posted
For me the Olympics starts tomorrow with the athletics.
Hitherto we have had a week of "elitist" equipment sports (shooting; archery; canoeing; rowing; cycling etc etc) in which to compete you you need to be able to afford horrendously expensive equipment. A bicycle costs between £7000 - £15000 to enable a win. Few nations can hope to indulge never mind compete. And Gold medals galore are on offer to the priveliged few.
Now for the events which are open to the poorest.
Welcome to the start of the Olympics.
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Swimming?
Rowing isn't elite; my very ordinary and very state (public in NA sense) high school had a Rowing Club.
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Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Swimming. Boxing. Basketball.
[ 02. August 2012, 21:28: Message edited by: Amos ]
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
My bow cost £300 - with a few extras (sight, rods etc.), probably just shy of £500; it will last me for years. The most expensive in my current catalogue (again, including extras) would set you back around £2000. *Minority* does not necessarily equal *elitist*.
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Volleyball, judo, swimming, diving, boxing, wrestling, basketball ... just off the top of my head, there are probably more Olympic sports that could go in this list -- none of these requires a lot of gear or a venue that isn't readily available to working-class people where I live.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Hitherto we have had a week of "elitist" equipment sports (shooting; archery; canoeing; rowing; cycling etc etc) in which to compete you you need to be able to afford horrendously expensive equipment.
Given that the whole reason for the Olympics amateur status was to exclude those who earned enough from the sport to be able to afford to practice (ie the working-class professional athletes who took a cut from the wagers laid on their performances), and let the effete posh boys practising in the Parks between divinity lectures win instead, the modern Olympics are considerably more egalitarian than anything that went before, when the whole point was "Gold medals galore... to the privileged few".
Remind me what the moan was about again?
AG
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Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Volleyball, judo, swimming, diving, boxing, wrestling, basketball ... just off the top of my head, there are probably more Olympic sports that could go in this list -- none of these requires a lot of gear or a venue that isn't readily available to working-class people where I live.
There's soccer for a start. Is there a more identifiably working-class sport than that? My brother-in-law is a good enough shot to keep vermin down professionally and he keeps pigeons, so what class is he FFS?. Oh, and his daughter is an archer.
eta: AG, I heard a few days back that at the London 1948 Olympics, a Swedish competitor was disqualified from one of the equestrian events because he was not an officer, just a mere sergeant.
[ 02. August 2012, 21:54: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
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Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Any sport at the elite level is going to be expensive, even those that don't require much equipment. Was just watching a short clip on youtube about the sacrifices Gabby Douglas' (solo) mum made to get her to where she is.
Barring equestrian, which I will admit is very expensive, most sports are pretty cheap at the beginning because you can hire or use club equipment. That's how the clubs get people to join. That's not even beginning to look at how China conscripts promising kids when they're too small to choose what they like.
You get really good, either commercial or government interests will start contributing.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I think the OP takes a rather naive view of sport financing. As this article makes clear, the success Britain has had so far, and any it may have in track and field is tied into (ultimately) state-sponsored funding.
It is not a matter of Rich people can buy horses and bicycles and use them to win stuff. It is 264 millions going into programmes, facilities, equipment, coaches, trainers, nutritionists, doctors, technologists and individual financial support.
That's before we get to commercial sponsorship, or the fact that high profile athletes are enormously valuable commodities in themselves. Some of them - tennis players like Murray and Djokovic, basketball stars, footballers - will effectively be taking a pay cut to represent their country.
If anything, you should be glad to see minority (not, as has been pointed out, the same as elitist) sports get exposure. How many will now take up gymnastics, for instance? (even my school gym had most of the apparatus for that).
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Field athletics is as expensive as any sport. Money gets thrown at the 100m sprint like candy. Donovan Bailey, 1996 Gold Medal winner spent 5 months of the year in Texas training full-time. His home was in Oakville, ON. He wore Canada on his jersey but it was always debatable how Canadian the effort really was. He had to rely on American training talent and facilities because our domestic capability at that level is so narrow and small.
Second, the medal standings could be predicted in advance. The US, Russia, China. Big countries with deep talent pools and deeper training pockets.
My brother competed at the provincial level here in Ontario in pole vault. It cost a decent penny just get him and my mother to events. Never mind the pole.
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Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
I'm almost struck by how the Americans can do so well at the Olympics and yet their country still has the highest obesity rates in the developed world.
Hopefully now that Michael Phelps is retiring, one of the things he might work on is getting Americans more active and physically fit.
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Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I'm almost struck by how the Americans can do so well at the Olympics and yet their country still has the highest obesity rates in the developed world.
Huh? Individuals go to the Olympics, not our collective fat ass.
quote:
Hopefully now that Michael Phelps is retiring, one of the things he might work on is getting Americans more active and physically fit.
And again: huh? Americans aren't fat because not enough sports celebrities are working on the problem. We're fat because there are serious systemic problems with the food supply and with the way we have to live, i.e., most decent jobs are very sedentary and most of the places we live aren't conducive to getting exercise to and from work. Our whole environment is going to have to change in several important ways for us to lose weight. That's not going to happen just because Michelle Obama tells us to eat our green veggies or because Michael Phelps tells us it's cool to get some exercise. It will happen when we re-structure the incentives in the agriculture industry so it is motivated to provide us with healthy food instead of processed crap and when our environment is changed to make walking and bike-riding to work more attractive than driving.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I'm almost struck by how the Americans can do so well at the Olympics and yet their country still has the highest obesity rates in the developed world.
Hopefully now that Michael Phelps is retiring, one of the things he might work on is getting Americans more active and physically fit.
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
You're Canadian. Pot, meet Kettle.
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Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I'm almost struck by how the Americans can do so well at the Olympics and yet their country still has the highest obesity rates in the developed world.
It's a large enough and diverse enough country to have both. Every Olympian is watched by many more watching tv on the couch.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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monkeylizard
Ship's scurvy
# 952
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I'm almost struck by how the Americans can do so well at the Olympics and yet their country still has the highest obesity rates in the developed world.
We may have the gold, but
the host nation is close behind with the bronze.
[ 03. August 2012, 04:06: Message edited by: monkeylizard ]
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Posts: 2201 | From: Music City, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I'm almost struck by how the Americans can do so well at the Olympics and yet their country still has the highest obesity rates in the developed world.
Huh? Individuals go to the Olympics, not our collective fat ass.
quote:
Hopefully now that Michael Phelps is retiring, one of the things he might work on is getting Americans more active and physically fit.
And again: huh? Americans aren't fat because not enough sports celebrities are working on the problem. We're fat because there are serious systemic problems with the food supply and with the way we have to live, i.e., most decent jobs are very sedentary and most of the places we live aren't conducive to getting exercise to and from work. Our whole environment is going to have to change in several important ways for us to lose weight. That's not going to happen just because Michelle Obama tells us to eat our green veggies or because Michael Phelps tells us it's cool to get some exercise. It will happen when we re-structure the incentives in the agriculture industry so it is motivated to provide us with healthy food instead of processed crap and when our environment is changed to make walking and bike-riding to work more attractive than driving.
Agreed, but it won't hurt to have Olympic athletes involved in encouraging Americans to make systemic changes to their culture and politics to be more physically fit.
I'm under no illusion that Phelps' and Obama can singlehandedly solve America's health problems, but it sure won't hurt having inspirational athletes contributing to the solution.
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Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I'm almost struck by how the Americans can do so well at the Olympics and yet their country still has the highest obesity rates in the developed world.
We may have the gold, but
the host nation is close behind with the bronze.
What, only sixth?! We were told we were medalling, I'm sure of it.
EDIT: Darn it, monkeylizard, that data is almost a decade old. Living on past glories?
[ 03. August 2012, 07:19: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
Am I the only shipmate who doesn't like the big team sports being part of the Olympics? I would much prefer to watch indivudual athletes, not large teams in sports for which there are often other world cups. Anyway, not all the team sports feature in the Olympics eg cricket isn't included.
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Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
Am I the only shipmate who doesn't like the big team sports being part of the Olympics? I would much prefer to watch indivudual athletes, not large teams in sports for which there are often other world cups. Anyway, not all the team sports feature in the Olympics eg cricket isn't included.
Football is the weird one, with it being a sort-of-youth competition.
I do like having some of the others, for example volleyball which is one of the world's most popular sports but not very popular in Australia (or indeed, it doesn't seem to be big in the English-speaking world). Sports like cricket don't get in because hardly anyone plays them.
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Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Can't see the Canadians dropping ice hockey. For some team sports the Olympics IS the big one. If they didn't have that, they'd never see glory - which is a bit hard on those individuals, and indeed nations, which excel in them. Nor is it a problem in teams eg 8 man rowing, where it's evident that each person is doing their damnest the whole time.
Contra the OP, I don't want to see just track and field (which, as has been pointed out, are no more egalitarian than any other), but all manner of things which don't get coverage. But yes, you can drop football.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Lucrezia Spagliatoni Dayglo
Apprentice
# 16907
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Posted
quote:
For me the Olympics starts tomorrow with the athletics. Hitherto we have had a week of "elitist" equipment sports (shooting; archery; canoeing; rowing; cycling etc etc) in which to compete you you need to be able to afford horrendously expensive equipment. A bicycle costs between £7000 - £15000 to enable a win. Few nations can hope to indulge never mind compete. And Gold medals galore are on offer to the priveliged few. Now for the events which are open to the poorest. Welcome to the start of the Olympics.
I would disagree ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Have you bought a pair of trainers recently? They last about 3 months if you run regularly ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
To have that amount of dedication to any sport at that level will cost a lot of money as well as support from family, friends and employers.
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Posts: 20 | From: "...an utterly insignificant little blue-green planet ..." | Registered: Jan 2012
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WhyNotSmile
Shipmate
# 14126
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Posted
As others have said, at the elite level of Olympic sports, everything costs money. But even at a lower level, sport costs time, which some kids don't have... You need to have time after school to practice, rather than needing to get a job (or go home and do the housework because both your parents have to work); you usually need a parent who will drive you to practice and events at weekends; again, you need to have the free time to go to these events; etc etc.
It's great if you have a sports club nearby which can help with transport, lend equipment etc, but for a lot of children they just don't have the leisure time needed to compete at a decent level.
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Posts: 528 | From: Belfast | Registered: Sep 2008
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Swimming. Boxing. Basketball.
Quite.
I'm sure the Belfast (and other Irish) boxing gyms, used as an alternative for many youngsters to working class drug culture, would be tickled to hear how elite and well-off they are!
Actually, I was impressed with a little segment on swimming at how many top swimmers began and trained for a long time at their local 25 foot pools, bouncing their knees off the shallow end for years, till other facilities came along.
Of course, some sports are more accessible than others; and cost may well be a big contributor to that. But I'm not sure that the idea that the Olympics are only for the underprivileged, and the under-resourced is really that accurate. I doubt that's how it was originally, nor how it was meant to be when resurrected in modern times.
Track events, anyway, represent the epitome of elite training as much as any other sport. Selected athletes compete for the best international coaches available on the circuit; and you can be sure that the gym-work, the dietary and nutritional aspects, the kitting out, etc are not done on a budget! What makes the difference for a medallist, I imagine, is the quality of his team of medical help, nutritionist, physio, coach, backers, osteo, masseur etc.
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
The OP might well be true about equastrian events, and also rowing which (in Britain at least) tends to be associated with certain universities (like Durham where I learned to row - I was crap at it!) and posh private schools. Same is probably true of tennis, at a slighly restricted level, its at least a middle-class sport here, you don't see many kids from council estates playing it, few schools have tennis courts, and public courts tend to be more common in well-off areas.
But you don't need much money to start cycling. And if someone is good enough they get paid to get hold of the specialist bikes you need for this kind of racing. Same is true for archery and shooting.
And as someone else said the real cost is giving up your day job. And the level of competition for most Olympic sports requires that. Quite a lot of the British team seem to have given up school or college to train full time - which is a huge gamble if their sport doesn't pay up in the end.
But that's a problem with most professional sport. In one sense the scandal of British football wages isn;t the few hundred who get paid silly money most of the fans could never dream of, its the few thousand who never make it, who jack in school for full-time training and get on some youth scheme or apprenticeship or lower-league semi professional side and then find out at age 19 or 20 (or even later if they are very unlucky) they are never going to be quite good enough and find themselves looking for a day job with no qualifications or training.
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
Am I the only shipmate who doesn't like the big team sports being part of the Olympics?
Football is the weird one, with it being a sort-of-youth competition.
That's because many of the national football associations refuse to let the older players take part. And in Britain at any rate even those "youth" players are highly paid professionals - I've seen two of the British team play in the league.
The professional cyclists are also pretty highly paid for what they do, if not quite on the level of the footballers. I'd guess the basketballers are too, though there isn't much professional basketball here. Anyone good enough to have a chance to win an Olympic medal is probably good enough to get a job playing or coahing in the USA.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
How is professional sport any different from professional singing or acting? Many of the best singers I have encountered in terms of classical music and opera singers started at a very young age, performed in grueling practice sessions, and probably sacrificed a lot of time and money to get where they are.
Generally, not everyone can afford music lessons for their children and not everyone sees a music career as profitable in the same way as professional athletics.
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
Hopefully now that Michael Phelps is retiring, one of the things he might work on is getting Americans more active and physically fit.
I'm betting that he'll go back to working on that bong...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I agree, Phelps isn't the greatest example for kids, particularly since it's known that he barely worked out last year.
As for Michelle Obama and others who keep telling kids they're wrong to be plump, there are some pretty good indicators that they're encouraging bullying against the chubby.
Here.
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
There is a hell thread, and I posted there in a purg frame of mind:
quote:
I have a niece who is a member of USA Gymnastics, and the woman who lives downstairs from me is the grandmother of an elite-level track and field sprinter.
Any major sport with competition on the national and world level requires money to participate--and great sacrifice by athlete and family alike in terms of time, geographical location (they often move to train with a coach) and etc. etc.
It takes a village (and a few endorsements) to raise an athlete.
Once in a while an athlete comes along who has to practice in a run-down facility or hasn't got much in the way of backing and makes the grade, but they usually don't have the advantage to make it to the elite level. . .the Jamacian Bobsled Team notwithstanding.
sabine
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Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
To bang on a bit more about archery:
it's in no way an "elitist"* pursuit. Lol, shamwari should come to our club - dirt floor, ppl smoking (despite the legal requirement of a notice on the door prohibiting same), all swearing and farting like troopers. We also has:
Loud Rock music
nice cuppa TEA anna bikkie at half time
rude jokes
goats available for Pete, of course
cats running up and down the range
couple dogs to trip over an' all
cut-price tattoos from Gary's son
frozen mice in the club fridge for Deryck's cornsnake
club motto (I kid you not) "No Shit, Just Shoot"
completely politically incorrect as well - don't tell us anything unless you want it spread all over - *Club full of Squealers* is another, informal motto.
Believe me, clubs like mine exist up and down the country - we are not unusual - it's highly-competitive yes, but also a very warm sport - we lend each other kit and sell on stuff at favourable prices and generally look out for each other. As Arabella noted, to reach Olympic standard in anything, you need the time and therefore the financial ability/sponsorship to practice, practice, practice and access to the best coaches you can get. But everyone starts somewhere - I daresay Mark Spitz started in the shallow end ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Try it, shamwari, you might find it agrees with your outraged sense of Inequity.
*archers, even though they were the main strength of the English armies during the Hundred Years' War, were actually pretty much the lowest of the low - the dregs of society redeemed only by virtue of acceptance into the King's army because of their skill with a bow.
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
Since people learn to define themselves partially vs. others, I think bullying will always happen, if we let it. It's not about making sure no one is other, because that's impossible. It's about teaching respect and having available adults to talk to and encourage those who need it, I'd say.
I agree, and I think having the First Lady visit one's school to talk about how wrong it is to be overweight and imply that one is that way through excessive eating and laziness is a good way to teach disrespect for that particular type of "other." At the least it must be very embarrassing to sit through a special assembly about people who look the way you do.
Many studies have shown that overweight children usually don't eat any more junk food or sit in front of TV any longer, than the thin kids. IMO Mrs. Obama, with the best of intentions, is perpetuating myths and increasing stigma.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I'm with Jahove. I used to shoot - cost around £600 for equipment, it has lasted me years. My wife plays tennis and runs a little. She spends more than i have on racquets and shoes and balls.
Now the archers competing have probably got £1500 worth of equipment, with a similar level as backup. They are at the top of their game, so I would expect them to have spent money on their equipment, although a lot of it is sponsored.
All sport is elitist, to an extent. You have to have the time to put into the training, the equipment, the travelling, so it is very much harder to achieve the top level if you are poorer. But that applies across the board, not just to certain events.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Shire Dweller
Shipmate
# 16631
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Posted
quote:
@Orfeo
...Sports like cricket don't get in because hardly anyone plays them.
Not so. Cricket does not get in because the ICC and specifically India's governing body have not pursued this.
1 billion Indians follow and play Cricket with Twenty – 20 becoming the most popular format. Although admittedly there is a difficult anomaly of only about 12 or so Countries that play at the highest level.
If the Cricketing authorities wanted it, an Olympics Twenty – 20 Tournament would be quite possible. And as Baseball once had a shot at being an Olympic sport – Cricket being involved is not so far fetched.
However Cricket could jar like all Sports where the Olympics is not the pinnacle of achievement – eg. like Football jars.
The sports that fit at the Olympics (although having their own prestigious World Championships) are the ones that see the Olympics as the Ultimate Achievement.
As I like lists, without wanting to take anything away from the smaller sports, I'd define the 'Big' sports that take this attitude as Athletics, Swimming, Cycling, Rowing, Hockey.
Incidentally Re the OP and Cycling:
One of the reasons British Cycling is now the best in the world in most disciplines, is that young people from any background have been talent spotted. Success breeds success and more young people, regardless of their financial background will be talent spotted.
For their own reasons, for years, the Chinese have talent spotted in many sports (regardless of background) and so they win repeatedly.
If you want to win you have to maximise potential, which is elitist of course. But I dont see sporting elitism as wrong.
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Right around the Wrekin
Posts: 77 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2011
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Can't see the Canadians dropping ice hockey. For some team sports the Olympics IS the big one. If they didn't have that, they'd never see glory - which is a bit hard on those individuals, and indeed nations, which excel in them. Nor is it a problem in teams eg 8 man rowing, where it's evident that each person is doing their damnest the whole time.
Contra the OP, I don't want to see just track and field (which, as has been pointed out, are no more egalitarian than any other), but all manner of things which don't get coverage. But yes, you can drop football.
Drop hockey? You want Canada to declare war on the IOC?
I remember the Salt Lake City Olympics. The men's team hadn't won gold since 1952. The women won gold as they competed first (feminists complain women's hockey gets no attention). Then the men played. We drew the United States for the gold and silver final match. We won. Both our teams won gold at the Olympics, ended the men's drought and then it was revealed that the icemaker buried a Canadian $1 coin under Centre Ice.
It was a most perfect moment. The entire nation rejoiced across five and a half time zones.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Exactly. That's the sort of thing the Olympics can deliver.
And I liked the shooter and the judo women who suddenly found all their years of work and obscure competition lit for one brief moment. The crowds - the support - their dazzled faces say: we never imagined.
Anyone who isn't a teensy bit moved by that is, as Thomas said, deaf, dumb and blind with a heart like cold bread pudding.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Anyone who isn't a teensy bit moved by that is, as Thomas said, deaf, dumb and blind with a heart like cold bread pudding.
That'll be me then.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
<I can't spell 'me' either!>
[ 04. August 2012, 09:06: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
Never mind money or privilege; how about being an athlete in a country where there are people who really, truly want to kill you for running?
Tahmina Kohistani
OliviaG
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
Sorry, that link might not be open to everyone. In her own words. Awesome. OliviaG
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Shire Dweller:
However Cricket could jar like all Sports where the Olympics is not the pinnacle of achievement – eg. like Football jars.
And Tennis. And of course cycling, at any rate the road racing. In twenty years cycle racing fans will remember Bradley Wiggins winning his Tour de France with awe and then say Oh, and didn't he win an Olympic medal in the same year?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Shire Dweller
Shipmate
# 16631
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Posted
...cycling. I am perhaps quibbling but...
Somewhat grudgingly, yes for the Road Racing scene* the Tour is the ultimate accolade
*I'd exclude one-day all-out-blast Road Time Trials though – for that the Olympics is the equal of the World Championships
And on the Track, the Olympics is the ultimate achievement. That's why British Cycliung has so much focus on the Olympics and effecitvly works in 4 year 'cycles' to aim for this..... But I would say this wouldn't I, seeing as we've just won another track cycling gold!
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Right around the Wrekin
Posts: 77 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2011
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Shire Dweller:
...cycling. I am perhaps quibbling but...
Somewhat grudgingly, yes for the Road Racing scene* the Tour is the ultimate accolade
*I'd exclude one-day all-out-blast Road Time Trials though – for that the Olympics is the equal of the World Championships.
That's a rather un-nuanced view of the Road Cycling scene which says more about the Tour de France's aggressive marketing strategy and the resultant ignorance of other cycling events. This is particularly prevalent in the English-speaking media where the TdF provides over a month's worth of stories compared to a couple of days for a Spring Classic.
The Olympic Road Race does retain a huge amount of prestige in the cycling world, it's arguably even more prestigious as the Elite Road Race at the Road World Championships as the opportunity to win the golden helmet only comes once every four years.
Yes, winning a Grand Tour (one of the Giro d'Italia, Tour de France or Vuelta a España) might be the ultimate achievement for a stage race specialist, but one day racing is still hugely important in its own right with a more all-round set of skills needed to do well compared to stage racing. Races like the Ronde Van Vlaranden, Paris-Roubaix, Liege-Bastogne-Liege, Milan-San Remo and so on are among the biggest bike races on the planet, but not as media-friendly as a stage race. The Elite Road Race at the Road World Championships and the Olympic Road Race stand as the greatest one day races and are seriously contested with all the top-level teams allowing riders and other staff (mechanics, directeurs sportif, soigneurs etc) leave to work with their national squads and structuring their schedule to honour the Olympics properly.
It would be fair to describe the Time Trial at the Olympics as an event that is valued far less* than the Road Race. That competitors must compete in the Road Race before they become eligible to enter the Time Trial is the first point favouring this. The second is that while there are many legendary one day road races on the calendar, individual time trials are usually contested only within a stage race. Down the track, the achievement of Bradley Wiggins winning the time trial that constituted Stage 19 of the Tour de France will be remembered far more readily by those in the scene and proper cycling fans than his win at the Olympics.
The other point which leads to the road race being a 'more Olympic' event than the Time Trial is the equipment involved. Road racing rules require that every bike used must be available on the open market, while time trial rules allow for more specialist equipment. If I had the money available, I could go online right now and order a bike identical (except for sizing) to the ones used by my favourite top-level riders for road races, but I can't do that for their time trial bikes.
Of course, there is one other thing to remember for those of you in Britain - the only reason the Time Trial is being played up and not the Road Race is the results and the orgasmic rush of nationalistic cheerleading on the part of the BBC. Imagine the amount of furious flag waving and chest pumping that would have followed if somebody on the British team understood one day racing properly and a British rider had won (it wouldn't have been Cavendish) instead of a rider from Borat Land.
* Olympic medals are not all worth the same, this is the reason that media organisations keep medal tallies and the IOC refuses to do so officially.
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Shire Dweller:
1 billion Indians follow and play Cricket with Twenty – 20 becoming the most popular format. Although admittedly there is a difficult anomaly of only about 12 or so Countries that play at the highest level.
Glad you admitted it. Because number of participating countries is the relevant measure, not number of people who happen to be interested within those countries. You could have a sport that every man woman and child in China plays, and it still wouldn't get in the olympics if no-one outside China played it.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Along the vague theme of this thread, our commentators just told me there's a Russian woman in the marathon whose family was so poor there frequently wasn't food on the table. And her husband coaches her, having no other coaching experience whatsoever.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Volleyball, judo, swimming, diving, boxing, wrestling, basketball ... just off the top of my head, there are probably more Olympic sports that could go in this list -- none of these requires a lot of gear or a venue that isn't readily available to working-class people where I live.
Incidentally Swimming is actually one of the decidedly not cheap sports.
quote:
BBC
"We have identified four sports where there is virtually no chance that anyone from a poor country can win a medal - equestrian, sailing, cycling and swimming," says Prof Forrest.
He points to a study suggesting there is one swimming pool for every six million people in Ethiopia.
Wrestling, judo, weightlifting and gymnastics, he says, tend to be the best sports for developing nations.
Even in England you're talking about £4 a practice session, which mounts up pretty fast to get close to the volume of swimming you'd need to do to compete.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861
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Posted
For me, the issue isn't whether or not a sport requires expensive equipment or venues. . .most really don't (remember the Jamacian bobsled team?).
But to compete internationally, one has to have a combination of time away from work (or an endorsement) and good coaches (they cost money, and sometimes require athletes to move to a training center) as well as good equipment.
Most of us won't have access to enough time away from work to put in hours and hours per day working out/practicing. And most of us won't be able to pay for good coaching or give up everything to move to a training center--even if we have talent.
How many pairs of shoes does a runner go through? How many tennis racquets are carried onto the court? (Roger Federer looked as though he has at least 5). The money for them has to come from somewhere, even if--at an amateur level--it costs only so much for one pair of shoes or one racquet.
How much time does an athlete spend with a coach? Coaches rarely work for free.
So, as much as I enjoy watching the Olympics, I know that the feel-good stories about people who trained on hard clay tracks or swam in small pools all by themselves or were coaches for free by a family member are few and far between.
Most international competitors are people whose talent is backed by other people's money: recognized by endorsement contracts or families willing to put all their resources into one person's dream.
I still love watching the competition, but I know it's not as level a playing field as it would seem.
Catherine
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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano
Posts: 5887 | From: the US Heartland | Registered: Dec 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Jay-Emm, my claim was that swimming is an accessible sport for working-class people where I live, not for poor people around the world.
But of course there are huge inequities in the world, and they're reflected in the Olympic games. There are hardly any pools in Ethiopia, but here there are public pools and the public high schools have pools and swim teams. Kids in poor countries play soccer in empty dirt lots; kids in my town can go to one of the premier sports high schools in the US, where they have soccer, swimming, tennis, basketball, cross country, volleyball, water polo, golf and wrestling for both boys and girls; softball for girls; and baseball and football for boys.
I'm not exactly sure what anyone can/should do about this other than to address the larger economic inequities that create this situation.
quote:
Originally posted by sabine:
So, as much as I enjoy watching the Olympics, I know that the feel-good stories about people who trained on hard clay tracks or swam in small pools all by themselves or were coaches for free by a family member are few and far between.
Most international competitors are people whose talent is backed by other people's money: recognized by endorsement contracts or families willing to put all their resources into one person's dream.
People competing at the international level are taking what is leisure activity for other people and making it their full-time job. Unless they're independently wealthy, everyone who wants to do this, whether their passion is music, art, mountain-climbing or basketball, has to find a way to fund it. If enough other people like what you do enough to buy your art or pay to watch you compete, then you lucked out. If not, well, that's just kind of the way it goes. I don't think we owe it to people to fund their Olympic dreams any more than we owe it to anyone else to fund their dreams.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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