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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: What made you change?
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
I was interested in another thread in which people indicated that their views on controversial issues had changed.
Why?
For myself I once held strongly anti-charismatic views ( and I still think with good reason given my experience of charismatics till then.)
What changed my view was interaction with a charismatic who was like no other charismatic I have ever met.
Experiences welcome.
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Holy People. Prayer. Self Loathing.
AtB Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
For a good share of my life, I thought that homosexuality was an abomination. I guess I gradually changed as I got to know so many decent and well-adjusted gays and lesbians over the years.
--Tom Clune
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This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
...views on controversial issues had changed.
Why?
What changed my view was interaction with...
Like you -- experiences. An instant healing in my body in response to prayer was rather convincing that there are miracles. Similarly, a friend whose wife left him at age 25 had to either be single the rest of his life or change his theology about whether God ever permits remarriage.
Also reading the Bible and seeing things in it that no one had taught me, such as God-appointed female leaders, or that justice has an element of kindness as in "Joseph, being a just man," did not want Mary dragged out to the public square and stoned to death for her supposed adultery.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Edith
Shipmate
# 16978
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Posted
I used to be a bit of a Trot, but now I'm not even in the Labour Party. Still believe in social justice though.
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Edith
Posts: 256 | From: UK | Registered: Mar 2012
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Squirrel
Shipmate
# 3040
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Posted
Used to be very anti-gay rights. Figured we needed to Protect the Family. Even sent a donation to Anita Bryant's organization (remember her?) Two things happened:
1. I met an increasing number of happy homosexuals. People like Bryant would have us believe that gays are secretly miserable, and desperately want to be "set free" from their behavior.
2. The ton of right wing junk mail I got after sending the aforementioned donation. What crap.
Interesting aside: Bryant's organization completely fell apart when she announced she was leaving her abusive husband. All those "Christian businessmen" who supported her dropped their support.
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"The moral is to the physical as three is to one."
- Napoleon
"Five to one."
- George S. Patton
Posts: 1014 | From: Gotham City - Brain of the Great Satan | Registered: Jul 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I used to be rather scared of theologians - and prejudiced too. I imagined them to be lacking in 'real' experience and emotion. I thought all the book learning knocked the passion out of them.
Then I met a liberal theologian who also had real passion, and she changed my mind completely. She left our circuit a while ago now, but I still ask for her sermons to read.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
<spellings, as always - disslekicks untie>
[ 28. June 2012, 20:14: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
For a good share of my life, I thought that homosexuality was an abomination. I guess I gradually changed as I got to know so many decent and well-adjusted gays and lesbians over the years.
--Tom Clune
Very much so for us. We were anti-gay, then went through the phases of "the love which won't shut up" to the acceptance of friends and acquaintances who were gay/lesbian. The real chinning point was the introduction of the very severe laws in Uganda, and after talking and thinking, we reached the position that there was nothing at all immoral, or anti-Christian in being gay and moved on to our present belief that sexual preference is immaterial.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Patdys
Iron Wannabe
RooK-Annoyer
# 9397
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Posted
And as a visceral reaction to arseholes.
I became more multicultural after being exposed to National Action- a skin head racist Australian political party (thankfully gone).
And a similar reaction to frank homophobia, which 20 years ago, I shared to a certain extent. There is nothing like a mirror to shame you and change your views.
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Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.
Posts: 3511 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jigsaw
Shipmate
# 11433
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Posted
Fox hunting. Grew up in a very rural area of England where it was an accepted feature of our life - as a school student I worked part-time at the local hotel where the hunt met, and my job was to carry the tray of stirrup cups (port and sugar drinks - like secular wee cuppies, I guess)
out to the riders before they set off. Can't believe now I didn't understand the unneccessary slaughter involved. Since the UK hunting ban, have the foxes over-run the land? No, they have not. End of.
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You are not alone in this.
Posts: 743 | From: Snorbens, UK | Registered: May 2006
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infinite_monkey
Shipmate
# 11333
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Posted
In genuinely all cases--polyamorists, Republicans, The Gayz, Mormons--it took me meeting real people and knowing them as people.
Perhaps that's why my jury's still out on Scientology...
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His light was lifted just above the Law,
And now we have to live with what we did with what we saw.
--Dar Williams, And a God Descended
Obligatory Blog Flog: www.otherteacher.wordpress.com
Posts: 1423 | From: left coast united states | Registered: Apr 2006
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jigsaw:
Fox hunting. Grew up in a very rural area of England where it was an accepted feature of our life - as a school student I worked part-time at the local hotel where the hunt met, and my job was to carry the tray of stirrup cups (port and sugar drinks - like secular wee cuppies, I guess)
out to the riders before they set off. Can't believe now I didn't understand the unneccessary slaughter involved. Since the UK hunting ban, have the foxes over-run the land? No, they have not. End of.
I was a hunt saboteur as a teenager. When I grew up I went as far as to refuse to renew my national trust membership because of their ban on hunting on their land. Fox hunting is now a non-issue for me. Shame it's part of our heritage that's lost, but sometimes you have to tolerate urban teenagers for their other qualities.
Oh, and by the way - yes, our towns and cities are overrun with foxes. But our countryside could do with a few more to keep down the rabbits.
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
oh, and another one on the same lines - I was brought up a vegetarian. Meat seemed so disgusting and I really cared about all those animals that had to die. But then I started to understand that our milk condemns bull calves to be slaughtered at birth, and the same for male chicks born to keep the supply of hens. I looked into vegan diets, but it wasn't long before I realised that I was living my mother's values, not my own. Soon I couldn't remember why those animals were so important to me. Now I eat them at every opportunity. It's lovely to stroke a cow or a sheep at a country fair, and it's fantastic to learn about slaughtering, butchering and cooking really fine meat. Best of all, you get to eat it - nothing wasted.
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Being gay... really, the re-examination eventually came after finally acknowledging that being 'anti-myself' didn't work, on a practical level. It was psychologically exhausting and not sustainable over the long term. Although that means the 'short term' is around 17 years...
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
tclune: I guess I gradually changed as I got to know so many decent and well-adjusted gays and lesbians over the years.
quote:
Squirrel: I met an increasing number of happy homosexuals.
I'm guessing that this is happening a lot of times, all over the place.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
Just a few off the top of my head...
Atheism to Christianity (to long a story for now unfortunately).
Socialism to a more pragmatic approach (but not New Labour)
I also used to be quite anti-American in my teens, in that lazy way left-wing Europeans often are. Then I actually visited a few times and made lots of American friends at university. Now I love the place, warts and all.
Posts: 3758 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by infinite_monkey:
In genuinely all cases--polyamorists, Republicans, The Gayz, Mormons--it took me meeting real people and knowing them as people.
Ditto. And just to give everyone that warm, fuzzy feeling, I can honestly say that while all these fact-based contradictions to my theory-based prejudices were whirling around in my head, it was the well-articulated views of Shipmates that helped me resolve them.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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parm
Shipmate
# 9287
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Posted
So, I started out as a fuzzy left-liberal teenager, then became a Christian and in the excitement of all that turned into a bit of a rabid fundamentalist for a while. What changed there was I traded critical thinking for religion.
I don't really see my return to left-liberal thinking as being a change, therefore, and more rather a return to my roots, and the catalyst was basically me getting exhausted at having to deal with the doublethink going on in my head all the time, and also doing a bit of studying of post-modern theory and realising that it had useful things to say.
But ultimately, I don't think it's always necessarily a single thing that catalyses a single change and then suddenly everything's different - it's always a gradual build-up of things that drip-feed a few doubts/concerns and cross-pollinate with other people's experiences and conversations. I've been changing in the past and I'm still changing now - if you'd told me three or four years ago I'd be at a Methodist church singing hymns to an organ with a bunch of pensioners, I'd have thought you were crazy, but here I am. The only constant is change, and that.
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Honestly, I have no idea.
Posts: 98 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Apr 2005
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Lev
Shipmate
# 50
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Posted
Reading Romans 7:14-25 sparked off a huge internal struggle with the evangelical faith I was in at the time.
It boiled down to the question: do Christians have a sinful nature? If yes, then how do we understand the transformative message of the gospel, vis-a-vis the death and resurrection of Christ and being "born again". If no, then how do we understand Rom7:14-21?
I would regularly ask fellow Christians this question and would get a 50/50 split in answers - some from leading thinkers in the church and sometimes different answers from within close family members. It was a huge unresolved question, which seemed very odd considering the emphasis the church placed on personal holiness and the implications of the answer to the question.
Then I read Watchman Nee's "The Normal Christian Life" and that led me to my own answer and understanding. I then left that church and joined Holy Joes..
Posts: 304 | From: Brighton, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Mary LA
Shipmate
# 17040
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Posted
Some years ago I went off on an Ignatian retreat for 30 days in an old farmhouse and the spiritual director guiding the retreat gave a small informal talk about the primacy of conscience. That gave me the courage to look at what I really believed as opposed to what I felt I should believe and how the ecumenical and/or secular experience of knowing and working with people from very different backgrounds and beliefs had changed me.
It was a very uncomfortable retreat sitting under an old fig tree each day unravelling long-held beliefs and assumptions, but of immense value in understanding what mattered to me and what was no longer possible.
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“I often wonder if we were all characters in one of God's dreams.”
― Muriel Spark
Posts: 499 | From: Africa | Registered: Apr 2012
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Sir Pellinore
Quester Emeritus
# 12163
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Posted
Frank Brennan, an Australian Jesuit, is also big on the primacy of conscience, Mary. In fact, he thinks one of the duties of teachers is to help students to develop a suitably informed conscience.
In the past there was much emphasis on blind obedience to rather simplified "rules", which were not, in fact, what the Roman Catholic Church really taught. But there was not much emphasis in 1960s pre-Vatican II Australia on theologically, biblically and morally literate laity, able to make important decisions in real time without consulting "Father".
How times have changed! The paedophilia scandals and the dearth of priestly vocations in Australian young men has made theologically, biblically and morally literate laity mandatory.
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Well...
Posts: 5108 | From: The Deep North, Oz | Registered: Dec 2006
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
I was once quite anti-Catholic (in my 20s) and it took my first ministerial appointment in Londonderry to change my views.
Firstly I encountered some 'real' anti-Catholicism:
"Ah, ye canny trust 'em, their eyes is too close togather!"
And from a Presbyterian minister(!) "You can tell next door are catholics, they've gone on holiday and left a spade in the garden." (The implication being that untidiness is a Catholic trait!
Secondly, the people who had the key to our bungalow for emergencies were Catholic AND lovely! (Shocking!) They were Gerry and Veronica (They could't be protestants with those names LOL).
They invited me to their silver wedding celebrations at a Catholic community house in the city. There was a Mass followed by a buffet and I sat there eating my dessert which seemed to be just jelly and tinned fruit in the top - just like school dinners(!) and I was just thinking the jelly tasted a little bitter, when Veronica caught me and said, "Oh! That was whiskey trifle - I made it for the priest!!"
LOL Such fun.
I also met, and came to like, an ex-Ira man who was running a Methodist hostel and an ex-prisoner's fellowship.
18 years ago I met Father Frank who smioked a lot but we got on really well. His choir and our salvation Army band joined forces a couple of times for joint services with our 2 congregations.
Finally I did a chaplaincy module at Ushaw College near Durham under the tutelage of some priests who were good guys. I attended Mass for and by the seminarians there, where everything was done entirely by the book, as you would expect. I have to say that I was really blessed by it all.
(Apart from the 'Mary ever-Virgin' and the transubstantiation bit ![[Smile]](smile.gif) )
These and other experiences - and theological reflection too - helped me to realise that although I do not accept all RC dogma for myself, I can understand and appreciate it; I can see the logic and understand why RCs believe what they do.
It's not so strange!
And in any case, I'd rather be 'in bed' with a traditional Catholic who believes what he teaches than a liberal Anglican who doesn't believe half of what's written!
And Catholics and Salvationists are almost siblings when it comes down to ethical and moral teaching.
I was told by a priest that The Salvation Army would make a very good Catholic Order. And after I had spoken at a Lent course about sacraments, I was told that what I had said was Opus Dei belief!
So there you go, watch this space ...
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Earwig
Pincered Beastie
# 12057
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by parm:
So, I started out as a fuzzy left-liberal teenager, then became a Christian and in the excitement of all that turned into a bit of a rabid fundamentalist for a while. What changed there was I traded critical thinking for religion.
I don't really see my return to left-liberal thinking as being a change, therefore, and more rather a return to my roots, and the catalyst was basically me getting exhausted at having to deal with the doublethink going on in my head all the time
THIS - I could have written every word. I got so tired about all the doublethink, and tired of hiding who I really was to my very conservative church.
Also, after I'd been with them a while, all the crazy stuff they came out with (floods in Devon were God's punishment for some new age-y shops there) just seemed less and less like the work of the God I was coming to know.
I'm glad I didn't throw the baby of Christianity out with the batshit bathwater, but I know many of my friends who have. And I can't blame them.
Posts: 3120 | From: Yorkshire | Registered: Nov 2006
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Unfortunately I think I have changed for the worse - I used to be tolerant of all types of Christianity, moving quite happily between the different expressions, particularly when younger (you may remember me saying I belonged to a quite evangelical ecumenical youth group as well as singing in my own church choir). But what put me off was that the evangelical groups could not tolerate me being a chorister - many churches which originally had choirs saw it as their mission to get rid of them, rather than allowing more informal music groups to thrive alongside the traditional choirs. Consequently, I found myself starting to dislike people who had that attitude and, by association, dislike their theology, music, churches, etc. as I felt my sort of Christianity was under attack.
What I need to remember is that many of the people now in those churches and groups have inherited the result rather than caused the result (and many of those who initially caused the result have changed their minds and become more tolerant of different theological and musical expressions as they have aged). So I think I probably need to change my attitude again.
I guess, like many people, I'm a work in progress.....
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
I think there are 2 typical ways people change deeply-held beliefs. They either have a dramatic instant change which simply can't be ignored (epiphany, peak experience, call it what you will), or else there's a steady discarding of previous dogma over a long period.
That usually takes some time, and it's interesting because the evidence suggests that deeply-held beliefs get stronger and more extreme in response to arguments against them. I have a suspicion, based on my own experience, that this "deconversion" process happens in our subconscious, but only in the absence of inputs to support the prior belief.
This is a slightly odd hypothesis, I admit, but I've changed my views on a lot of topics, often quite dramatically, and I've never been able to pinpoint either when or how I changed my mind.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
in my late teens and very early 20s I used to be very against OoW- on no real grounds except a dislike of (i) change [I could be very priggish at that age) (ii) a particular local deaconess who was prominent in MoW. Needless to say, I'd never actually met anyone who could put the arguments for OoW in a way that I found sympathetic, let alone AFAIK (apart from forementioned deaconess) any women who believed that they had a vocation to the priesthood (or even the diaconate at that time, in the CofE).
Then I heard Viv Faull (now Dean of Leicester but at that time a deaconess) speak for OoW in a debate and, listening to her account of why she wanted to be ordained, it quite simply seemed absurd to me that she shouldn't be; so I changed my mind and have never changed it back.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
Interesting also what doesn't change a person. Homeless gal who regularly calls me (says I'm "her lifeline" and "the only person she can talk to." I guess we all need someone we can vent to) asked what I think of the Supreme court decision on health care. I said it means she'll be able to get the meds (for hyperactivity) she needs, so I'm in favor of it; what does she think?
She's opposed, it's socialism.
Some people change their thinking when faced with a situation in which their thinking hurts their reality. Some don't; whether that's admirable sticking to principles or incredible out of touch with reality depends on one's own viewpoint and values, I guess.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Interesting also what doesn't change a person. Homeless gal who regularly calls me (says I'm "her lifeline" and "the only person she can talk to." I guess we all need someone we can vent to) asked what I think of the Supreme court decision on health care. I said it means she'll be able to get the meds (for hyperactivity) she needs, so I'm in favor of it; what does she think?
She's opposed, it's socialism.
![[Confused]](confused.gif) ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
The Pond is much wider than we sometimes think.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
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Posted
I was raised in almost all-White setting. My elementary, jr. high and high schools were about 99% white and upper middle class. I overheard and told ethnic jokes just like everyone else and heard from teachers and my parents comments based on ethnic stereotypes, which I undoubtedly internalized and repeated.
I don't think I was ever overtly racist, but certainly felt an instinctive anxiety about the diversification of North America, which I'd regard as passively racist. I certainly believed everyone should be treated equally but also believed that the growth of Chinese, Muslim, East Indian, Latino and other communities would somehow undermine The-Way-Things-Are in a Very-Bad-Way and turn me into a stranger in my own land.
Certainly part of what changed me was exposure to good people who spoke other languages, ate other foods, observed different cultural norms and did things differently than I did. But I also credit being gay and being on the receiving end of such prejudice for opening my eyes to the assumptions I made.
Have I changed? Yes and no. I choose live in New York City for the diversity. I love going to Chinatown, Sunset Park, Boro Park, Astoria, Bronx, etc. for the immersion. My vacations tend to be to places where I can also immerse myself in different cultures - China, (North) Korea, Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Argentina, west Africa, etc. My friends, my food choices, my musical choices and my activism and voting preferences are based on my belief that multiculturalism, for all its flaws, is good for society.
But from time to time, I find myself feeling those same basic tribal instincts which remind me that 20+ years of being immersed in a white-bread and racist culture can't be undone easily. I still regard myself as far more intolerant than I should be and as a work in progress. At the same time I thank God for making me gay which opened my eyes in a way I don't think I would have had them opened otherwise. I see very intolerant comments on my high school's Facebook page and always wonder if I would have continued to be that way myself.
[ 29. June 2012, 19:32: Message edited by: ToujoursDan ]
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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
When I was at uni I remember telling my partner at the time that I wouldn't "live in London, become C of E or agree with private schooling..."
I have now lived in London, am very much C of E and would privately educated if I was rich, and will consider working in the sector when I return to work!
I think my views on Christianity/ God/ life changed a lot when I got divorced. I'm much more bitter and twisted now.
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
Part of it for me was that I don't think the beliefs I was raised with really fit my personality. I'm not 100% sure about that, as my personality is similar to relatives who held/hold the beliefs I eventually left behind.
An easy one to name is homosexuality, which I was raised to believe was a choice and a sin. It was several Christian friends of mine coming out, and sharing their struggles and faith with me, that changed my mind on that one.
I think part of the reason I became quite the liberal in my politics was listening to Bruce Cockburn a lot during my college years. (Really!) Something in me gravitated toward his views once I heard them expressed so well, and so naturally, in his music, set alongside other lyrics that resonated with me (his more spiritual and introspective songs). But I know Bruce Cockburn fans who are quite conservative, too. (Maybe they're more into his music, the guitar playing?)
And I think just the experiences and encounters I've had. I can't help feeling like going to a large, public university, moving to a city, things like that, had a lot to do with widening my views. At the same time, once you're in places like a large university or a city, you can just as easily become ensconced in liberal circles.
Religiously, I was drawn more and more to liturgical and sacramental expressions of the Christian faith, and I think some of this had to do with my mood disorder. Being bipolar, undiagnosed and untreated, in a Pentecostal church was really awful in my teens and early '20s. The more liturgical and sacramental traditions offered me more objectivity to hold on to - less was dependent on my state of mind or emotions. And then the more I looked into the theology present in the Episcopal Church (especially on the catholic end of the spectrum), the more it's made sense to me.
Some of it, I'm sure, is a bit of a mystery. [eta:] I think at least part of all of the above was the leading of the Holy Spirit, and following Jesus - which doesn't mean I think people who hold beliefs different from mine are necessarily wrong (though in some cases I do). There's a lot more than either/or in Christ, and I think we're all led to the places where we can learn, grow, and serve the best.
[ 29. June 2012, 19:50: Message edited by: churchgeek ]
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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genuinelyconcerned
Apprentice
# 17180
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Posted
Interesting question..
* From genuine and belligerent atheism to faith in Jesus Christ [was filled with the Holy Spirit, like in the book of Acts...]
* Getting rid of ALL my secular music - including irreplaceable early acid house/rave (*sigh*) and then, a few years later, spending a lot of money in trying to get it all back.
* Being a New Statesman subscriber / Guardianista in a very lazy way. Now definitely more 'right' than I once was. [Is it cuz I'm now a 40yr old parent?!?]
* Thinking I was in one of the best churches in my city and then realising I was in an authoritarian heavy-shepherding church and I'd been duped. That changed a lot of theology about 'church leadership' in the New Testament.
* PC to Mac.
Genuinely...
Posts: 2 | From: Engerland | Registered: Jun 2012
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Squirrel
Shipmate
# 3040
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Posted
Besides homosexuality, I also changed my mind on a bunch of other things, most notably Evolution and abortion.
With the former, I started reading a lot of literature on what was then called "Creation Science"- and blindingly accepting it. To me the idea of evolution meant that Genesis 1 was not literally true, which in turn meant that the Bible could not be trusted and therefore that there was no reason to believe any of it. Sloppy thinking, I know, but I was a naive undergraduate and a spiritual seeker who believed anyone who talked about such matters with an air of authority. One of the things that helped set me straight was a visit to the American Museum of Natural History. The other was talking with many sincere Christians who DID believe in evolution.
With abortion it was more emotional. I had been educated in the Catholic system through my undergraduate years, and heard plenty of "Pro-Life" teaching. One of my closest friends in college was a woman who had married her abusive boyfriend at age 19 because she had become pregnant, and couldn't think of the alternative. And I'd seen the usual gory photos of aborted fetuses. As I got older I broadened my circle of friends considerably and started meeting women who had undergone abortions themselves. These were not the selfish, irresponsible people I had imagined before. One was a woman with severe medical problems who would have probably died if she had to give birth. I also read more balanced discussions on the topic. Eventually I reached the point where, even though I didn't like the idea of abortion, I understood why it was sometimes the best thing to do.
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"The moral is to the physical as three is to one."
- Napoleon
"Five to one."
- George S. Patton
Posts: 1014 | From: Gotham City - Brain of the Great Satan | Registered: Jul 2002
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Sir Pellinore
Quester Emeritus
# 12163
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Posted
You probably had as much of an educatively broadening experience on the good Catholics at Ushaw as they on you, Mudfrog.
I'm glad the old Catholic/Protestant divide is becoming less rigid than it was.
Being exposed to non-birth religiosity and spirituality is always a good thing but it takes years and years to become both genuinely tolerant and yet develop your own beliefs, which may, or may not, be based on the ones you were born with.
It depends on so many things.
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Well...
Posts: 5108 | From: The Deep North, Oz | Registered: Dec 2006
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
The smug self-satisfaction of this thread is almost physically tangible.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250
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Posted
And thank you for your generous contribution thereto.
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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
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ianjmatt
Shipmate
# 5683
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Posted
Moving from a generally unchurched youth (apart from a couple of years singing in the village church choir), converting at 19 to the more fundamentalist/pentecostal brand of things. 7 day creationist, anti-gay, anti-secular music sort of thing.
Starting a movement away from this in my late 20's when I found the whole evangelical way of thinking wanting (the Mike Riddel book 'Threshold of the Future' make a big impact). The real turning point was when we lost a baby at 4 days old - the whole theology, practice and culture of reformed and charismatic Christianity was just left wanting.
Would now consider myself to be more catholic than evangelical, although just about holding on in the C of E, and all the issues of the past seem so trivial and a waste of time.
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You might want to visit my blog:
http://lostintheheartofsomewhere.blogspot.com
But maybe not
Posts: 676 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Mar 2004
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
The smug self-satisfaction of this thread is almost physically tangible.
I take it you dislike change?
Like many others on this thread, it's often people that make me change and challenge my biases.
[ 30. June 2012, 12:59: Message edited by: Evensong ]
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
The smug self-satisfaction of this thread is almost physically tangible.
I see the opposite - admitting to a change of view isn't easy imo.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
I have changed my mind about a few things over the years.
Firstly, I used to be pretty much a memorialist when it came to the Eucharist. I now carry a piece of chalk in case I run into any Memorialists, as I have accepted the idea of sacramental union.
Secondly, I used to be a strong believer in free will, but I now tend towards a mild form of Predestinarian theology.
I used to be much more of the left politically, but I have gotten to the point where I have realised the truth of the dig 'socialism works only until you run out of other peoples money' and now I tend to go for what I call 'old-fashioned liberalism.'
I have been forced to make my mind up on the ordination of women, gay marriage and abortion, and in all three cases I have come down against. Though it has to be said that in the case of the first named, I am emotionally in favour, but intellectually against.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
I was brought up in a MOR Anglican church and my mother had pentecostal friends, so I went to the occasional service which was high on miracles and the such. When I turned Christian in 1996 I fell back into a "Bible-centred" faith, using what I had been brought up with.
I joined my local church purely so I could sing in the choir. It is high-church and I was well against the statue to Mary and other stuff. During the Good Friday Liturgy once I expressed an open shock at the kissing-the-feet-of-Jesus bit. Generally for a time I agitated for modern hymns and songs.
Going to Taize showed me the beauty of a more immanent approach to worship, as well as things like icons, candles and incense. I came back and slowly became high-church, and now attend an Orthodox church.
I'm full of prejudice about all other manner of stuff now though. The cuts by the government in Britain and the reaction to them by many, coupled with me living in Poland seeing nationalism have pushed me away from social democratic liberalism to anarcho-socialism.
[ 30. June 2012, 15:41: Message edited by: Rosa Winkel ]
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
I have been forced to make my mind up on the ordination of women, gay marriage and abortion, and in all three cases I have come down against. Though it has to be said that in the case of the first named, I am emotionally in favour, but intellectually against.
PD
Interesting (if a DH tangent) because I would have thought that unusual. Isn't it likely that more people are intellectually in favour but emotionally against?
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Jesus. Not just glib, fatuous, facile but true. Really true.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Interesting (if a DH tangent) because I would have thought that unusual. Isn't it likely that more people are intellectually in favour but emotionally against?
I think this is a common mistake regarding those opposed. I think it's part of the fairly common misapprehension that opposition is in someway related twosome form of misogynistic prejudice. I, too, would say that I am emotionally inclined to OoW but intellectually opposed. Fortunately for me, as a Catholic, I don't have to resolve the conflict since Roma locusta, causa finita.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
OK. I can see that. Better not revive the equine.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
The smug self-satisfaction of this thread is almost physically tangible.
One person's smug self-satisfaction is another person's humility.
Like most others on the thread, it was experience that changed me. Particularly three experiences which came one after the other almost four years ago. A close family member came out as gay. I came across some information about universalism (long before Rob Bell's "Love Wins" was published). And the church we were part of fell apart in a very messy and painful way, despite everyone on all sides loving each other and wanting to do God's will. These things led me to rethink some of my long-held, though not particularly well-thought-out, views.
Being part of the Ship has changed me too. Being here has shown me that it's fine to question things. It was all black and white, and very much simpler, when I came to faith over 30 years ago, but I think I'd turned my brain off. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.
Posts: 1289 | Registered: May 2011
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Sir Pellinore
Quester Emeritus
# 12163
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
The smug self-satisfaction of this thread is almost physically tangible.
One person's smug self-satisfaction is another person's humility...
Psychologists; psychiatrists and psychotherapists could really go on about that one.
I would hope that genuine humility would indeed destroy self-satisfaction.
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Well...
Posts: 5108 | From: The Deep North, Oz | Registered: Dec 2006
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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673
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Posted
I'd like to change my tendency towards depression.
My faith has changed from vibrant to very full of doubt.
What most on the thread are expressing is the experience of growing up and moving outside the insular worlds that most stable families create for their children. We think certain things when we're young because we're simply too young to see any farther than what we know.
and i appreciate the on-going struggles many have mentioned. I, too, catch myself falling into some of the not-so-nice attitudes I was raised with.
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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)
Posts: 2767 | From: half-way up the ladder | Registered: May 2008
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