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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Why do you believe in God?
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
A spin off from the Dawkins Theistic Probability Scale thread.
Why do you believe in God?
On what basis do you believe? Where does it come from?
Some possibilities:
a) Philosophical argument
b) Reason
c) Feeling
d) Experience
e) Mysticism
f) Tradition
g) Your parents
h) Fear
i) I don't know but that's cool
j) I don't know and it annoys me
k) Hope
l) The Natural World
m) The Universe is Designed
n) Desire - the hole in your heart that can only be filled by God ( Pascal )
o) The Historical Jesus
p) The Resurrection
q) As a basis for ethics and morality
r) It's more fun than nihilism and meaninglessness
s) The people are nice
t) Ritual means something
u) ......Insert your own here.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
The whole "meaning and purpose" aspect is very important to me.
I mean, what's the point otherwise? The answer: "There is no point. Get used to it." doesn't work for me.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
o and p.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
a, b, c, d, e, f, g, i, k, l, n, o, p, r, t.
For myself, I would rephrase q as 'An inspiration for ethics and morality'.
About s: if I would believe in God on the basis of Christians being nice, I would have left my faith long ago ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
And I totally dig the last part of Karl's answer.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
j) I don't know and it annoys me
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
q) r) and s). Mostly because I feel like I need something to believe in.
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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
Posts: 1310 | Registered: May 2012
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
a) Philosophical argument
Some vaguely enunciated amaglamation of Prime Mover Unmoved, Prime Causer Uncaused, and "Well, why the hell would anything bother existing at all if there was no purpose behind it?"
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Dave Marshall
Shipmate
# 7533
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Posted
I don't believe in God, I recognise God as a feature of reality. Does that count as a u)?
Posts: 4763 | From: Derbyshire Dales | Registered: Jun 2004
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Kwesi
Shipmate
# 10274
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Posted
After Dawkins, I believe in God because it's genetically wired into the human species as necessary for its survival. I wouldn't mind betting that believers in God have a higher birth-rate than those who don't.
Posts: 1641 | From: South Ofankor | Registered: Sep 2005
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
u) regeneration, which involves b, c, and d but is more than their sum total.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kwesi:
After Dawkins, I believe in God because it's genetically wired into the human species as necessary for its survival. I wouldn't mind betting that believers in God have a higher birth-rate than those who don't.
I always thought Dawkins was some kind of freaky mutant. Comforting to know that is how he describes himself.
I wonder what would happen if he suddenly woke up and discovered he had fathered 50 children.. disappear in a puff of logic, I suppose.
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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
r) It's more fun than nihilism and meaninglessness
I am not making this up: if you image 'bruce cockburn morose youth' the VERY first hit you get is this.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I don't believe in God, but I am on his side.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I like that one. I don't believe in God; I'm just rather in love with him, and (gulp) s/he with me.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kwesi:
After Dawkins, I believe in God because it's genetically wired into the human species as necessary for its survival. I wouldn't mind betting that believers in God have a higher birth-rate than those who don't.
It seems possible - there are correlations between standard of living and belief in God and between between standard of living and number of children.
Blessed are the meek but fertile for they shall inherit the earth.
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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PaulTH*
Shipmate
# 320
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Posted
I would have to go for d and e, because for most of my life God has been a presence I've intuitively felt, rather than believed with my mind. I can't prove to anyone, not even myself, that He isn't a product of my own imagination, but the older I get, the more I start to connect with Him on a rational level. But I think I will always agree with the anonymous writer of the medieval English spiritual classic, "The Cloud of Unknowing" who wrote,
"By Love may He be gotten and holden, but by thought never."
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Yours in Christ
Paul
Posts: 6387 | From: White Cliffs Country | Registered: May 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
S - my father committed suicide when i was aged 8 - although he was an atheist, he had a Christian funeral and the rector who conducted it reckoned i needed a father figure and I joined his choir, got baptised, confirmed, became an altar server etc.
So it's all about a caring priest and a supportive congregation.
[ 27. September 2012, 15:00: Message edited by: leo ]
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
Posting just to say: reading with interest.
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
Hmm, OK then, ordered from most to least relevant:
6 Philosophical argument / Reason
5 Experience / Mysticism / Desire - the hole in your heart that can only be filled by God ( Pascal )
4 Hope / The Resurrection / Fear
3 The Natural World / The Historical Jesus
2 It's more fun than nihilism and meaninglessness / Ritual means something
1 As a basis for ethics and morality
Sort of neutral towards:
0 The Universe is Designed / Tradition
Whereas not relevant (ordered from remotely to not at all applicable):
-1 I don't know and it annoys me / I don't know but that's cool
-2 Feeling
-3 Your parents / The people are nice
[ 27. September 2012, 15:28: Message edited by: IngoB ]
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
It makes the best sense of all the evidence as a whole. Is that (b)?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It makes the best sense of all the evidence as a whole. Is that (b)?
I like that. The alternatives simply don't make sense to me, and I am baffled as to why people fall for the simplistic arguments that support them.
[ 27. September 2012, 16:00: Message edited by: Freddy ]
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
I appreciate that philosophy and reason are cultivated by the church, and that non-Christian philosophers and reasoners have failed to disprove the existence of God despite trying. But as far as my faith is concerned, they're frosting on an already-baked cake. I think I'd cite
f) Tradition (i.e. passing something on actively like the runners in a relay race);
g) Your parents (the most important runners before me)
n) Desire
s) The people are nice
t) Ritual means something
And one not mentioned:
Beauty.
A few years ago, I would probably have given somewhat different answers.
I hope I don't give (g) and (s) in a naive way, as in "my parents would have been disappointed or angry if I apostasized." And the churchmen I've known have not always been nice. I'm very lucky in the present; but by and large, academia has treated me more fairly and kindly than the church has.
But some of my formative years were spent in a church dedicated to All Saints. The first time I sang "For all the saints" as a chorister was unforgettably thrilling. All Saints' Day has been an important festival to my spirituality ever since. How much we owe them over two thousand years! I think it comes down partly to epistemology. Science is great, but in practical terms most of what we believe or "know", we accept because we have heard or read it from sources we trust. If parents, teachers, and in fact "a long cloud of witnesses" who have built so much that we cherish also "show the same path to heaven"-- it would behoove us to pay attention.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
What comes to mind is:
--- habit.
--- The present circumstance works satisfactorily and I see no reason to change.
--- (a more serious reply) I feel an urgent need to thank someone.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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fluff
Shipmate
# 12871
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Posted
I have to say my belief in God comes entirely from personal experience, and is a matter of feeling alone. Philosophical arguments for the existence of God are neither sound nor convincing. Though I can understand that theology could be viewed as a kind of poetry.
I sympathize with Dawkins's frustration with the tendency for people who believe in God to separate this from science. In "The God Delusion" he makes the very valid point that the existence of such a God would surely be of great scientific interest, and therefore should be susceptible to scientific scrutiny. However, despite my agreement with many of Dawkins's arguments and especially his criticisms of religion, his denial that spiritual experience is of any use to humanity whatsoever is clearly untrue, and also untrue in my own experience. His own positivistic scientism is also vulnerable to skepticism.
I have an experience which I call God. It is what happens when I pray and when I go through my days and nights as the person I am, the person I try to be better.
So - c, d, e, k, and n.
Posts: 109 | From: South England | Registered: Jul 2007
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Macrina
Shipmate
# 8807
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Posted
I think I believe in God. I believe that the universe is interconnected and 'alive' in a way that I can't quite verbalise and that somehow it's very important for us all to realise that. I love what little I can grasp of quantum physics and how weird everything really is.
Belief in God makes me feels small in the same way that staring at the deep space field of the Hubble Space Telescope makes me feel small, it's a sort of awesomely overwhelming sense that we are tiny and yet significant all at once.
I also think that somehow things have to make sense somewhere. Part of me fears that this is simply a genetic and cognitive answer to stop us going insane. The human brain likes patterns, God might be one, but I don't think it/he/she is.
Posts: 535 | From: Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: Nov 2004
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
My belief in God comes from experience (d). I drew near to God by following Christ, and God drew near to me so that I was convinced, over time.
Many of the other categories have fed into the development of my faith, esp a,b,c.e,f,l&p, but they're not the reason I believe.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Sir Pellinore
Quester Emeritus
# 12163
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Posted
In the play "Peter Pan" there is a point, when Tinker Bell is dying, that the audience is invited to "Clap, if you believe in fairies" to save her.
I find myself unable to contribute to this thread on the grounds an unbiased reader would see my contribution as being in similar vein.
Whether I theoretically believe in God or not, in the great scheme of things, doesn't matter. If that belief and the practical results of it seem to make me, in some way, a better person, they might, just might, be interested.
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Well...
Posts: 5108 | From: The Deep North, Oz | Registered: Dec 2006
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
Whenever I'm asked this question, I point to the same answer. This is taken from "The Pilgrimage of Mass" by Kenneth Ingram (This book is not under copyright, so I hope this quotation is fine):
quote:
"The older I become,the more I realise that the deepest knowledge possess comes through a faculty greater than reason or the physical senses. It is a spiritual intuition which is too great for verbal definition, but is beyond all doubt. Only in this way I know myself to be real to myself, or that there is a beauty and goodness and love which sometimes reaches me.
I cannot demonstrate, I cannot define, but I cannot question. These are the truths which belong to innate conviction, which gradually reveal themselves, and become part almost of myself. It is a faculty entirely distinct from emotion, and for me, it is the nearest point to absolute knowledge which I can obtain."
So I suppose, it's mainly B,C,D, and E, except that by E, I mean what is spoken above. When I say reason, I don't actually mean that reason has convinced me that a God exists,but rather than reason has kept me from denying one exists.
I have read and understood philosophical arguments for God's existence, and none have proven to me that he exists. But they do keep me from being able to believe that belief in him is irrational. I suppose the main reason is the experience. I don't know how to explain it, I don't entirely know what it is. To paraphrase, I know because I have seen, and though I cannot explain it, I know that I haven't been deceived nor have I deceived myself.
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http://sacristyxrat.tumblr.com/
Posts: 1420 | From: Philadelphia Penns. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
How about "Because I can't help it"? Which probably boils down to B, C, and E--almost. I do occasionally think it would be so much simpler if I could just drop that stuff and become a sort of Taoist, but I can't do it.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
How about "Because I can't help it"? Which probably boils down to B, C, and E--almost.
Sounds more like (i) to me.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
fluff
quote:
despite my agreement with many of Dawkins's arguments and especially his criticisms of religion, his denial that spiritual experience is of any use to humanity whatsoever is clearly untrue, ...
I am not saying you're wrong here, because I couldn't possibly find the quote, but are you sure he denies the worth of spirituality?Spirituality im a non-religious context is a part of everyone's life.
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Alogon: And one not mentioned:
Beauty.
Good one!
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sighthound
Shipmate
# 15185
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Posted
I believe in God for the same reason I believe in Blackpool Tower and Ben Nevis. He is there.
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Supporter of Tia Greyhound and Lurcher Rescue.http://tiagreyhounds.org/
Posts: 168 | From: England | Registered: Sep 2009
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fluff
Shipmate
# 12871
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Posted
SusanDoris: I am not saying you're wrong here, because I couldn't possibly find the quote, but are you sure he denies the worth of spirituality? Spirituality im a non-religious context is a part of everyone's life.
Well certainly spirituality involving any deistic content, or stuff derived from religion - such as for instance, prayer or experience of a higher power - he is pretty hostile to, and seems to see as basically harmful/regressive and A Bad Thing. Whilst I agree with some of his criticisms of religion (particularly Creationism!) he doesn't convince me here. I don't see God as a "delusion", basically.
He is into a "awe at the Universe" kind of spirituality, which he sincerely promotes, and ethical values that are certainly often closer to my own that, say, those of conservative Christianity.
Posts: 109 | From: South England | Registered: Jul 2007
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
Coincidentally, Melvin Bragg's programme on Radio 4 In Our Time yesterday was discussing Anselm's ontological proof for the existence of God. It made my mind spin a bit, I must admit. However, there was a reference to Bertrand Russell admitting it held water (although that did not seem to affect his attitude to any afterlife).
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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Grokesx
Shipmate
# 17221
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Posted
@Higgs
Russell did indeed in his undergraduate years exclaim "Great God in Boots!—the ontological argument is sound." In later years, though, he did argue against it, concluding that to the modern mind it appears obviously wrong, but tracking down exactly where was more difficult. I think that's because, as with most philosophers, he had his difficulties with the map and territory distinction.
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For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H. L. Mencken
Posts: 373 | From: Derby, UK | Registered: Jul 2012
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
For my part it demands a whole lot more faith to believe there aint no God.
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Because he called me?
That said, there's a whole lot of alphabet soup that supported the original call.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Grokesx:
@Higgs
Russell did indeed in his undergraduate years exclaim "Great God in Boots!—the ontological argument is sound." In later years, though, he did argue against it, concluding that to the modern mind it appears obviously wrong, but tracking down exactly where was more difficult. I think that's because, as with most philosophers, he had his difficulties with the map and territory distinction.
There has also been a lot of confusion over the question of Anselm I and Anselm II. The first version was cracked open by the perfect island argument, (a perfect island must exist, since existence is an attribute of perfection), but the second version substituted 'necessary existence', which demolishes that argument, since islands don't exist necessarily. Hence, it is necessary existence which is said to be an attribute of perfection. (Still sounds dodgy, as if you are defining God into existence).
This is the version which Gödel formalized in modal logic, thereby rendering it incomprehensible to nearly everyone. Never mind.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
A whole cluster of reasons. Most basically I'd say I believe in God because God first believed in me, to paraphrase 1 John 4:19. He loved me and called me, and I believe because of that.
I was brought up to believe in God, which is undoubtedly a factor, but I've also questioned and examined the arguments for and against the Christian faith. But on balance, I find the Christian faith to be both intellectually and emotionally satisfying, and gives a framework by which to live my life.
I find Christianity intellectually satisfying because it answers the basic philosophical questions of life coherently - why is there something rather than nothing? What is the basis for morality? How can we know truth? and so on. Other worldviews, such as materialism, don't seem to me to offer adequate answers.
As well as being coherent, I find it intellectually satisfying because it makes empirical claims that are possible to investigate rationally. For example, the historical claims concerning the Resurrection of Jesus. Christianity can in principle be disproved - so it isn't a matter of blind faith.
I find it emotionally satisfying in that the God revealed in the Bible is attractive and worthy of worship. The triune God of the Bible is a God of grace and love, and I enjoy knowing him and following him.
The Bible gives an authoritative basis for my life and morality. It both fits with normal human moral intuitions - "do unto others..." and also extends and challenges my instinctive morality by commanding me to love my enemies and to treat people not just as I would like to be treated, but as God himself treats us. Also, the combination of free grace and forgiveness, plus the Holy Spirit in us to produce faith and love, is one that enables real moral change (even if I'm a lot more stubborn in co-operating than I'd like to be!)
And finally, the church gives community, support and friendship that helps sustain my faith. It's far from perfect, but my experience of church is overall very positive.
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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Squibs
Shipmate
# 14408
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Posted
Whatever about the philosophical, historical, scientific or other arguments, I guess I've never seen any reason not to believe in a supernatural being. It gets a little more complicate when I try to understand the nature of God.
Posts: 1124 | From: Here, there and everywhere | Registered: Dec 2008
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
God is. That is all I need to believe.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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REALLYMAD
Apprentice
# 17317
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Posted
Afternoon all.
I'm relatively new here, up to this point purely a spectator but I figured it was time to dip my toe in. I couldn't find a thread specific for introductions so I've just chosen one at random.
So that there are no misunderstandings as to my standpoint on religion I will answer the opening post by saying that I DID believe in God via parents, peer pressure, indoctrination of local social norms to avoid ostracism, and the education system in 1960s suburban UK primary schools.
In my teens I became a confirmed member of the church (C of E).
I grew out of it.
Belief in God to me is now an ontologocal phallacy perpetuated to subjucate the underclass into obedience. Generally speaking. But more on that later.
I'm a BBC Religion MB refugee. My reason for being there? I guess I got tired of seeing all the blinkered Biblebots lording it up over anyone with a differing opinion. After a while I discovered that my input in certain debates had indeed made not one but two people question their religion and open their eyes. As the more seasoned posters will already be aware this is extremely rare, whatever side of the fence you sit. To me it justified all the time I spent in there.
Nice to meet you.
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If a man speaks in the woods and there are no women to hear him, is he still wrong?
Posts: 13 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2012
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
Welcome to the Ship, Reallymad. When you say you "grew out of" believing in God, what did that involve for you? How did you "grow into" whatever you believe now?
I'd say that I grew out of my childhood faith, but I also grew into a more mature faith, that came through questioning and thinking things through to see if I could really believe them for myself. It's possible to grow out of one's faith, but that doesn't mean all faith is itself something childish to be grown out of.
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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Squibs
Shipmate
# 14408
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Posted
Biblebots, eh?
Posts: 1124 | From: Here, there and everywhere | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I grew out of my childhood agnosticism.
The simplest formal logic version of the Ontological Argument runs as follows:
( G -> G )
♦G
--------------
G
which is valid. The controversy lies in the major premise, as to what it means and whether it is intuitively true or not. In a "possible worlds" semantic rendering, it does seem to encapsulate something like the major premise of the Anselm II argument given above.
(translation:
Necessarily, if God exists, then God exists necessarily. It's possible that God exists. Therefore God exists.)
All of which does nothing for me. I believe in God, as noted above, for other reasons.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I grew out of my childhood agnosticism.
The simplest formal logic version of the Ontological Argument runs as follows:
( G -> G )
♦G
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G
which is valid. The controversy lies in the major premise, as to what it means and whether it is intuitively true or not. In a "possible worlds" semantic rendering, it does seem to encapsulate something like the major premise of the Anselm II argument given above.
(translation:
Necessarily, if God exists, then God exists necessarily. It's possible that God exists. Therefore God exists.)
All of which does nothing for me. I believe in God, as noted above, for other reasons.
Very nicely set out. I sometimes stare at that argument, possibly and necessarily, therefore extant, and feel slightly queasy. It looks right, and it doesn't feel right.
But as you say, fortunately, it does nothing for me either. I could never 'believe in God' because of that, and I've never met anyone who did either.
I sometimes fantasize about a crowd outside a church, baying feverishly, and breaking the door down, 'if it's possible that it must be, then it is!'
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Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
For me I think maybe the problem is the minor premise. To say "it's possible that God exists" could be taken in one of two senses. In the weaker sense, you just mean "it isn't nonsense" but that's not strong enough to make the argument work. If you mean "there's a possible world in which God exists" — which is what is needed to carry the syllogism — then it appears to be smuggling the conclusion into the premises.
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
I tried listening to the In Our Times episode but I got lost pretty quickly.
Why must God exist if you can imagine a situation where he could exist? I can imagine all kinds of things - say a pink elephant - but how does that make it exist? Or is this something about him being all-powerful God which makes it different to all other things?
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"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
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